Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[Gavin_TDThree]

All I gotta say is Miami got Wiggins and we got Ingram.

That gives us the opportunity to leapfrog them potentially as we increased our talent level while they decreased theirs.

We protected the Indy pick 1-4. We still have our own first in that draft.

Ingram is going to be “load managed”, so our tank rolls on.

Like I said, talent aggregation.

I believe this protection was done by Indy, not us. If the pick landed 1-4 it would stick with Indy, otherwise it conveyed. If it did land between 1-4 I think it became 2 2nds or something

[Merit]

We really turned Pascal into Ingram, Ochai, Walter, Shead, Mitchell

That's an insane haul.

and this was with Siakam's agent actively harming his trade value via the media

Shead / Mitchell not part of Siakam tree
unless im missing something , those guys came from signing mcdaniels and fleeced SAC

It’s from our tpe. We didn’t use it when we chose to tank.

[OakleyDokely]

I like that they are big and lanky again. They have size at every position beyond the IQ spot

[Tripod]

All I gotta say is Miami got Wiggins and we got Ingram.

That gives us the opportunity to leapfrog them potentially as we increased our talent level while they decreased theirs.

We protected the Indy pick 1-4. We still have our own first in that draft.

Ingram is going to be “load managed”, so our tank rolls on.

Like I said, talent aggregation.

We didn't protect that Indy pick 1-4. Indy did.

If it's 1-4 it's Indys pick. 5 onwards it's the Pels

[WuTang_CMB]

and this was with Siakam's agent actively harming his trade value via the media

Shead / Mitchell not part of Siakam tree
unless im missing something , those guys came from signing mcdaniels and fleeced SAC

It’s from our tpe. We didn’t use it when we chose to tank.

Ya thats a stretch

[Merit]

This place is becoming so toxic of late. Some of you are never happy whatever Masai does. Ingram is a steal for what we gave up. Most on this board wanted Bruce and Kelly to be traded. He did that. Let's see how things go with him next to Scottie. We have a lot of young talent and depth when healthy. Adding a guy like Ingram doesn't hurt.

Have you heard of the concept of value in excess of contract?

At today's 36M, assuming Ingram is healthy for 65+ games a season, this is absolutely a steal.

But Ingram is about to make well over 40M, and liable to be injured and miss games. He will not be much value in excess of his NEXT contract. This is at best neutral value deal.

What I'm complaining about is the timing of this deal - just like the Poeltl trade, it is bad timing. We should be focusing on 2025 FRP positioning and developing young players (Walters/Mogbo/Dick) this season and the next season - instead we going to give mins to vets for play-in next season and possibly this season.

Imo, Scottie’s max of 39 is our salary ceiling. I doubt Ingram gets more than that.

The timing of this trade is a non-issue because Ingram needs to recover from injury and will definitely be load managed.

[hyper316]

Love the bench we have now:

Shead, Gradey, Walters, Ochai

Boucher and Mitchell flipped for 2nd Rd picks

[sidsid]

Only on the Raptors board are people crying about getting a 27 yr old 22 5 and 5 player for expiring scraps and a pick in the late teens to 20s. Absolute nuttiness.

Some context. Lavine is a very similar type of one way offensive player, with similar concerning injury history, and with a very large contract (which BI also wants).

As recently as last year, he was a negative asset that you would need to pay picks to get rid of. The deal Chicago got this year after a healthy hot streak is the luxury of taking on multi-year term garbage that the Kings would have needed to pay other teams to take for expirings on their own, and a way worse pick with protections than we gave up.

You can acquire any type of "talent", but not all talent are assets.

[anotherhomer]

Alluring to the title, i'm pretty surprised a lot of long-time posters including media people are against the trade. Tbh, i think Ujiri was thinking of being sellers, but the historically buyers market and availability of BI (a former no 2 pick) who may fill a need for 3, meant Ujiri had to take advantage

I get that there are many legit reasons from there's a reason he's available for cheap, he's a ball-stopper, injured a lot, can't play in a system, and leaves raptors in a bad cap space situation, overlap with Scottie, isn't raptors suppose to re-tanking, why trade pascal then get BI

but for reasons mention, i think this is a good buy-low situation
- raptors are looking for a 2nd star to fit with Scottie
- BI is more of a 2/3 versus a 3/4 Scottie, who can shoot high volume 3s
- Scottie mid-range isn't as great as BI....
- BI is a better passer than ppl realize
- this is a historically buyer's market....getting a former #2 pick it's worth getting

A short summary is that, BI is a good buy-low situation where you can see he's the guy you can put at 3 along with Scottie. A lot of teams tank to get that lottery pick that need a few years to develop. Do you really want Ed Rogers to fire Ujiri and hire a mediocre white guy, aka Ross Atkins, Shatkins to languish us in mediocrity while Ujiri/Webster build the next dynasty elsewhere

paying likely mid-high FRP to find out if we have that guy in BI is worth it , to see if he fits at the 3.

[nikster]

So glad some of you are not the GM. This is the type of move you make 10/10 times.

Ingram is a great buy low candidate who, when healthy, has proven to be an unguardable 3 level scorer and a decent defender with tremendous length. He has not yet peaked imo and will be motivated with the raps.

There's a few elements to the trade that need to be considered.

In a vacuum sure, BI is a good player to add. Especially since we cannot score in the half court. But looking at the context of this team overall the move doesn't make a lot of sense.

BI is always hurt, there's no two ways around this. He is always hurt. He also operates heavily in the mid range (99th percentile i believe is what I read). SB operates in this area. RJ needs to get downhill to be effective. JP needs to be in the paint to be effective. Plus, BI's defence is nothing to write home about.

For midrange heavy players, spacing is really key, we don't have that with this team. The fit on this current roster is weird and clearly some follow up trades/signings will be needed.

The second piece is that if we look at where this team is in the current standings, we are the 5th worst team. Meaning we have a real shot at a top end player who fits the team's timeline.

The third piece, our FO preached patience and staying the course. Trading for BI is the opposite of this statement. If we were overachieving this year and they wanted to add then sure, why not. But we aren't overachieving, if anything we are right where we are supposed to be.

We did not give up much to get BI which is great! We turned an expiring, a backup big, and a 15-20th pick into a 27 year old scorer. That's not bad at all and based on a pure trade standpoint I think we won it.

I just don't think the trade makes sense in the context of the team

I really don't think this move at all contradicts Masai preaching patience. They were patient with Bruce Browns contract and they had a great value trade materialize. It is not a desperation or forced move, it doesn't move the needle for this season but for next year.

And again patience comes in to play when talking about fit. Next season will be our first year of really trying to compete in the playoffs. The team we see now will not be the same team we have in 3 years. Fit is not as big a concern as talent acquisition, There will be adjustments.

[Gavin_TDThree]

has anyone seen an updated salary cap projection for next year based on this trade? Assuming BI gets $40M per, how's our books look?

[Merit]

Hate this trade. We’re going to overpay Ingram for sure. Going to hurt our draft slot. Going to hate watching Ingram dribble into midrange jumpers all the time and not use his size to defend.

This FO better hit it out of the park with the 9th pick this year or I’m out.

Don’t let the door hit ya when you leave.

[YogurtProducer]

Love the bench we have now:

Shead, Gradey, Walters, Ochai

Boucher and Mitchell flipped for 2nd Rd picks

One’s gotta go IMO for a big. I’d keep Boucher/Davion to as re-signing should be cheap.

IQ/Davion/Shead
Barrett/Agbaji/Walter/Dick (one be traded)
Ingram/Battle
Barnes/Boucher
Poeltl/ one of our 2’s for a 5

[Jtoneller1]

What happens with Boucher today will tell the tape of whether we are competing this year or not. I can't see the team sitting him for 30 games in a contract year. If he's moved, you can be rest assured that Ingram will be load managed the rest of the season to preserve our pick

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

[Gavin_TDThree]

So glad some of you are not the GM. This is the type of move you make 10/10 times.

Ingram is a great buy low candidate who, when healthy, has proven to be an unguardable 3 level scorer and a decent defender with tremendous length. He has not yet peaked imo and will be motivated with the raps.

There's a few elements to the trade that need to be considered.

In a vacuum sure, BI is a good player to add. Especially since we cannot score in the half court. But looking at the context of this team overall the move doesn't make a lot of sense.

BI is always hurt, there's no two ways around this. He is always hurt. He also operates heavily in the mid range (99th percentile i believe is what I read). SB operates in this area. RJ needs to get downhill to be effective. JP needs to be in the paint to be effective. Plus, BI's defence is nothing to write home about.

For midrange heavy players, spacing is really key, we don't have that with this team. The fit on this current roster is weird and clearly some follow up trades/signings will be needed.

The second piece is that if we look at where this team is in the current standings, we are the 5th worst team. Meaning we have a real shot at a top end player who fits the team's timeline.

The third piece, our FO preached patience and staying the course. Trading for BI is the opposite of this statement. If we were overachieving this year and they wanted to add then sure, why not. But we aren't overachieving, if anything we are right where we are supposed to be.

We did not give up much to get BI which is great! We turned an expiring, a backup big, and a 15-20th pick into a 27 year old scorer. That's not bad at all and based on a pure trade standpoint I think we won it.

I just don't think the trade makes sense in the context of the team

I really don't think this move at all contradicts Masai preaching patience. They were patient with Bruce Browns contract and they had a great value trade materialize. It is not a desperation or forced move, it doesn't move the needle for this season but for next year.

And again patience comes in to play when talking about fit. Next season will be our first year of really trying to compete in the playoffs. The team we see now will not be the same team we have in 3 years. Fit is not as big a concern as talent acquisition, There will be adjustments.

I can see where you're coming from.

I guess I see it like deciding to buy a Porsche because you got a great deal on it. Even though you're still renting and trying to buy a home. Just because you got a great deal doesn't mean it fits with your overarching goal. I'd love to be wrong on this though! haha If it works out that BI rests the majority of the year, we land a top pick, and we come back next year with a strong squad I'll be lining up to buy tickets!

[mtcan]

Love the bench we have now:

Shead, Gradey, Walters, Ochai

Boucher and Mitchell flipped for 2nd Rd picks

One’s gotta go IMO for a big. I’d keep Boucher/Davion to as re-signing should be cheap.

IQ/Davion/Shead
Barrett/Agbaji/Walter/Dick (one be traded)
Ingram/Battle
Barnes/Boucher
Poeltl/ one of our 2’s for a 5

I think Mitchell is gone, one way or another. Shead provides what Davion provides and comes cheaper.

I like Boucher as a player and love his backstory...so whether he stays or not...I'm ok either way.

But going forward...we should see a bench unit of Shead/Dick/Walter/Battle/Robinson with Mogbo filling in situationally...at least for the rest of this season.

[Clutch0z24]

As long as this doesn't mess up our 2025 Draft, considering we moved Indianas pick, so narrowing our draft pool in 2026, we need to land someone this draft bad.

Yep this deals upside depends on the 2025 draft pick....We have to get very lucky on lotto night because the upside of Ingram/Barnes as your main players is play in fodder year after year.

When this team is healthy it;'s as good as Miami which is holding sixth seed right now, one game over .500. That's the East for you.

You can say we are as good as any team and make it sound good....You have to prove it on the court....We have been a lottery team for years now....I would not say we are better than anyone....Being good on paper is a different story....If we draft a meh player lets say a 10-13th pick in this upcoming draft....You are banking on an injury prone Ingram + Barnes to lead you to playoffs....Tough sell for me...

[MoneyBall]

I honestly don't get this fascination with Davion Mitchell. His defense is ok, but overall he's legit awful by every available metric. Plus, he'll be 27 before the start of next season. I don't see much room for him to grow.

[Ado05]

Trade is questionable at best. Can be bad depending on the extension they give him.

[Boardbreaker]

I could see something like Mitchell and Boucher for Levert and draft capital. Then either try to reroute Levert and squeeze out an extra pick or just let him expire/command the tank.