SGA has more Win Shares than Luka

[DwayneSchintzus]

a lot of people seem to be confusing the "why" with the "how"

the reason they traded him is that they saw him up close and felt this way about him

the WAY they did it was ridiculous, even if you agree with their reasoning as to why.

i haven't seen anyone say the trade was good for dallas except for kendrick perkins.

[BmanInBigD]

All this analytics stuff is fine, but it doesn't do crap for telling you who comes up big in the big moments. When the game's on the line, don't give me the guy who might have similar analytics or a better physique. Give me the guy who has the Magic. The Luka Magic. As a GM, you want your team to win but also to be relevant so you can attract other players. And you want your fans/city to be in love with your team. As much as I've criticized Cuban in the past, he would NEVER have given Luka away for an aging, bland, brittle superstar, no matter how good he still is. He understands how much Luka meant to this city.

[RunOKC]

SGA easily outplayed Luka in last years playoffs. Blame the injuries or whatever but it happened.

[HotRocks34]

Would you rather have Luka Doncic or Jayson Tatum? The correct answer, for those that watch basketball, is Jayson Tatum.

Definitely Luka.

Tatum is a great player, much better than he's given credit for, but he's not an offensive orchestrator anywhere near what Luka is. BBIQ isn't close.

Luka is a plus defender, one of the best offensive quarterbacks in the history of the game and has the highest statistical ceiling in the league besides Jokic.

To make it simpler: There is no way on earth that Tatum -- or anyone in the league currently except for Peak Russ, Peak LeBron and Jokic -- could average 33/9/9 and then lead a playoffs in Total PTS, REB and AST in the same season. That's not happening.

I respect Tatum but Luka is the easy choice.

[Archx]

Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.

Advance stats can be twisted in all directions if you want. Look at SGA first few years when OKC had bad teams, his advance numbers weren't impressive at all. They took off when OKC actually surrounded him with players.

Why does Luka lead Tatum (PLAYOFFS) WS/48 and ON/OFF career then? How does Luka fall off in playoffs?

And btw, i hope you know this "analytic" was made by a guy long time ago who was also then fired by the Mavs. He made his own model (XARPM metric) just to discredit him.

SGA easily outplayed Luka in last years playoffs. Blame the injuries or whatever but it happened.

Yeah, just sucks for SGA that Luka closed the series with 3 straight triple doubles. Including two 30pt triple doubles with a W. And also had a better DFG%, so

[HotRocks34]

After practice yesterday Redick talked about Luka and LeBron having supercomputers in their heads (BBIQ).

As great as Tatum or SGA are, there's no supercomputers there.

That matters a lot. Tatum is a good passer but he's not close to seeing the game at the level that LeBron and Luka do.

Being able to see the game like that makes things much, much easier for your teammates.

Also Redick said yesterday that Luka is a "killer." That's true. Like him against Gobert in the playoffs last year.

Some players want to win, some players want to destroy their opponent. Luka wants to destroy you, like Kobe, Jordan and Bird did.

I don't think either Tatum or SGA is like that.

[CometGM]

There are "advanced stats" and there is "magic". We all know which Luka has.
This man just went to the finals. I don't believe the trade had anything to do with stats.
When something like this happens I can only think of one thing, ego and control (which way this leans towards I don't know).

[Pacernation]

Stopped reading at "you want Tatum instead of Luka". Whoever got paid to do this deserved to lose his job because he obviously knows nothing about basketball. The dudes a one man offense who can score from everywhere on the court and needs to be doubled when he crosses half court. Legendary playoffperformer allready at age 26 - yeah, give me Tatum. What a joke.

[RunOKC]

Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.

Advance stats can be twisted in all directions if you want. Look at SGA first few years when OKC had bad teams, his advance numbers weren't impressive at all. They took off when OKC actually surrounded him with players.

Why does Luka lead Tatum (PLAYOFFS) WS/48 and ON/OFF career then? How does Luka fall off in playoffs?

And btw, i hope you know this "analytic" was made by a guy long time ago who was also then fired by the Mavs. He made his own model (XARPM metric) just to discredit him.

SGA easily outplayed Luka in last years playoffs. Blame the injuries or whatever but it happened.

Yeah, just sucks for SGA that Luka closed the series with 3 straight triple doubles. Including two 30pt triple doubles with a W. And also had a better DFG%, so

Player #1 put up 32/8/7/3.5 stocks on 50/55/83 shooting splits and averaged 2 turnovers.

Player #2 put up 24/10/9/2.3 stocks on 44/39/74 shooting splits and averaged 4.5 turnovers.

Many people believe player #2 played a better series somehow

[Archx]

Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.

Advance stats can be twisted in all directions if you want. Look at SGA first few years when OKC had bad teams, his advance numbers weren't impressive at all. They took off when OKC actually surrounded him with players.

Why does Luka lead Tatum (PLAYOFFS) WS/48 and ON/OFF career then? How does Luka fall off in playoffs?

And btw, i hope you know this "analytic" was made by a guy long time ago who was also then fired by the Mavs. He made his own model (XARPM metric) just to discredit him.

SGA easily outplayed Luka in last years playoffs. Blame the injuries or whatever but it happened.

Yeah, just sucks for SGA that Luka closed the series with 3 straight triple doubles. Including two 30pt triple doubles with a W. And also had a better DFG%, so

Player #1 put up 32/8/7/3.5 stocks on 50/55/83 shooting splits and averaged 2 turnovers.

Player #2 put up 24/10/9/2.3 stocks on 44/39/74 shooting splits and averaged 4.5 turnovers.

Many people believe player #2 played a better series somehow

Thanks for making a good example of why purely reading stats can be misleading.

Player #2 closed out the series, on one leg, with also good numbers and good defense and a team W.

OKC are really strong this season, so surely SGA shouldn't have much problems winning it all.

[dhsilv2]

Yea sorry but if you need analytics to tell you whether Luka is a top 5 player or not... you probably should follow a different sport.

Your eyes can deceive you. Numbers are objective.

Analytics only confirm what your eyes see. If you see something different than what the stats show you, you don't understand what you are watching

The eye check is wrong all the time man. That's why teams are spending tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars on analytics as a whole. Now generally, with time you can figure out why a stat and your eye might not match. Great man defender who's a bad team defender, so the stats say he's not a good defender. OK...easy eye test miss. Great assist stats, but the player turns out he's over dribbling and those low risk assists aren't really generating better offense. Whatever it may be.

But people are wrong all the darn time. even the experts.

[jasonxxx102]

Your eyes can deceive you. Numbers are objective.

Analytics only confirm what your eyes see. If you see something different than what the stats show you, you don't understand what you are watching

The eye check is wrong all the time man. That's why teams are spending tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars on analytics as a whole. Now generally, with time you can figure out why a stat and your eye might not match. Great man defender who's a bad team defender, so the stats say he's not a good defender. OK...easy eye test miss. Great assist stats, but the player turns out he's over dribbling and those low risk assists aren't really generating better offense. Whatever it may be.

But people are wrong all the darn time. even the experts.

I'm just saying the eye test is the context needed when it comes to analytics.

Analytics with no context are useless and often misrepresented

[RunOKC]

Advance stats can be twisted in all directions if you want. Look at SGA first few years when OKC had bad teams, his advance numbers weren't impressive at all. They took off when OKC actually surrounded him with players.

Why does Luka lead Tatum (PLAYOFFS) WS/48 and ON/OFF career then? How does Luka fall off in playoffs?

And btw, i hope you know this "analytic" was made by a guy long time ago who was also then fired by the Mavs. He made his own model (XARPM metric) just to discredit him.



Yeah, just sucks for SGA that Luka closed the series with 3 straight triple doubles. Including two 30pt triple doubles with a W. And also had a better DFG%, so

Player #1 put up 32/8/7/3.5 stocks on 50/55/83 shooting splits and averaged 2 turnovers.

Player #2 put up 24/10/9/2.3 stocks on 44/39/74 shooting splits and averaged 4.5 turnovers.

Many people believe player #2 played a better series somehow

Thanks for making a good example of why purely reading stats can be misleading.

Player #2 closed out the series, on one leg, with also good numbers and good defense and a team W.

Right..

Like I said SGA outplayed Luka. Stay in denial all you want.

[dhsilv2]

Analytics only confirm what your eyes see. If you see something different than what the stats show you, you don't understand what you are watching

The eye check is wrong all the time man. That's why teams are spending tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars on analytics as a whole. Now generally, with time you can figure out why a stat and your eye might not match. Great man defender who's a bad team defender, so the stats say he's not a good defender. OK...easy eye test miss. Great assist stats, but the player turns out he's over dribbling and those low risk assists aren't really generating better offense. Whatever it may be.

But people are wrong all the darn time. even the experts.

I'm just saying the eye test is the context needed when it comes to analytics.

Analytics with no context are useless and often misrepresented

I mean you legit need both if you're going to make business decision is my point. None of these guys do any of this without both. But even with both...smart people, and the writer of this is certainly that...can disagree. Now I'm at a loss as to how someone can't see Luka as a star, but this guy has more than proven he knows enough that you can't just ignore his opinion. He's also done enough where I'm confident his ego is insane.

[MrGoat]

Win shares correlates to team record. OKC was the 1 seed last season and look to do so again so there are more win shares to divide between the team. It's no surprise SGA would have a fantastic amount of win shares. This is a flimsy argument

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

SGA is the 2nd best player in the NBA. Doesn't mean Luka isn't good, he's top 5

[Mr. Perfect]

Player #1 put up 32/8/7/3.5 stocks on 50/55/83 shooting splits and averaged 2 turnovers.

Player #2 put up 24/10/9/2.3 stocks on 44/39/74 shooting splits and averaged 4.5 turnovers.

Many people believe player #2 played a better series somehow

Thanks for making a good example of why purely reading stats can be misleading.

Player #2 closed out the series, on one leg, with also good numbers and good defense and a team W.

Right..

Like I said SGA outplayed Luka. Stay in denial all you want.

SGA clearly outplayed Luka in last year's playoff series, no disagreement. Mavs had no answer for him, he was automatic from the field.

I'd still take Luka over SGA 11 times out of 10 though, and that's our Canadian guy but still Luka is a top 10 talent all time. Luka should end up with a much more decorated career, even though SGA will most likely get the MVP this year.

[HotRocks34]

After practice yesterday Redick talked about Luka and LeBron having supercomputers in their heads (BBIQ).

As great as Tatum or SGA are, there's no supercomputers there.

That matters a lot. Tatum is a good passer but he's not close to seeing the game at the level that LeBron and Luka do.

Being able to see the game like that makes things much, much easier for your teammates.

Also Redick said yesterday that Luka is a "killer." That's true. Like him against Gobert in the playoffs last year.

Some players want to win, some players want to destroy their opponent. Luka wants to destroy you, like Kobe, Jordan and Bird did.

I don't think either Tatum or SGA is like that.

Redick at practice yesterday talking about "supercomputer" Luka and "killer" Luka.

[canada_dry]

Win shares is an accumulative stat. Im pretty sure SGA has played more games.

Still an impressive stat when you consider luka has been on this level 6-7 years now and SGA really the past 3.

But SGA was always impactful to winning. Remember when management had to shut him down because the team was too good when he played despite AWFUL tank teams starring poku? Almost .500 record in games he played...yeah. He has BEEN HIM.

[dhsilv2]

Win shares is an accumulative stat. Im pretty sure SGA has played more games.

Still an impressive stat when you consider luka has been on this level 6-7 years now and SGA really the past 3.

But SGA was always impactful to winning. Remember when management had to shut him down because the team was too good when he played despite AWFUL tank teams starring poku? Almost .500 record in games he played...yeah. He has BEEN HIM.

Luka has more minutes and their games are almost the same. SGA just has better WS stats. Also SGA is on year 3 of being a superstar level guy. I think we missed the start, kinda like with Curry. Mind you the difference is WS loves TS% and SGA has a meaningfully better one.