Trade Ideas

[toooskies]

Hunter has a net positive on/off over the course of his career and the Hawks have surrounded him with such bad defensive personnel over the course of his career it's a little difficult to rely upon DARKO or EPM (which I hate as a stat) as determanitive. He's a better rebounder than either guy we're giving up, and if that's still unimpressive, it's because LeVert and Niang are horrid rebounders.

Really what it comes down to for me is that I've witnessed Hunter have good playoff games while I've witnessed Niang and LeVert be absolute liabilities in playoffs. Not just in the playoffs, but against playoff teams in meaningful regular season games. This isn't even an Okoro situation where he's young enough to reasonably expect something different.

LeVert isn't as get-him-off-the-court bad as Niang, but he disappears plenty against good defenses, and he's barely passable on defense. As far as his next contract, I don't think he gets an offer above the MLE from another team. This is the second time we have had him on an expiring contract at the deadline. Hunter is the best player that we know of who's been offered. There's a reason for that.

LeVert is a jack of many of trades master of none who is good injury insurance and an adequate sixth man. Strus and Okoro are better defenders (Strus is also a far better rebounder). Ty Jerome is a far better sixth man. Unless he's willing to come back on a team-friendly deal, the Cavs should wish him well this summer.

Is there a team in the NBA right now who will take Niang's salary for a second? Same question but two 2nds? He's a minimum salary/BAE player who was outplayed by Morris last post season.

You do understand that Atlanta has been consistently disappointed that Hunter hasn't matched that one good playoff series he had in 2022, even in regular season stretches, until earlier this year-- but he's fallen off again recently.

Yeah, that's why he's even available for what we'd offer, but we don't actually need him to match that series as a core piece. We just need him not to suck and play some small ball 4.

The problem is in the 2023 playoffs, he did suck. And he's not particularly good as a 4.

We don't need a scoring-first SF who doesn't pass and doesn't play much defense. Given that Cam Johnson is still available, at least he passes, and contributes on defense,

I'm hoping it's just a leverage play for Cam Johnson, who's probably superior in every way to Hunter but if you squint hard enough you could argue they're similar. But I'd rather just find a cheap backup 4 to rent.

[ijspeelman]

Can Atlanta get to a place where they can afford a meaningful free agent in the offseason? I don't see it unless they make multiple cap-clearing moves. Bogdan and Okongwu for expirings, too.

From the Cavs' perspective, I'm saying you're better off having LeVert + Niang for the length of Hunter's contract at SF than you are having Hunter. Hunter has never been a good defender. Just sign LeVert for under $20m/year for the next two years and you're at parity financially. And you likely sign him for less. (If the Cavs don't let him expire on purpose.)

We have very, very different evaluations of LeVert and Niang's worth.

I just don't think Hunter's very good.

His shooting is very good, has been good, and is peaking-- although those numbers have slipped a lot lately.

He's just a scorer, not a passer. More turnovers than assists this year. One of only two players to score 18+ ppg but under 2 apg. Not a promising fit for the Cavs' offense. (Compare to LeVert, who's only behind a handful of players for most assists/g from a bench player.)

Not a good rebounder for a 3/4. (LeVert has similar rebounding rates as a 2/3.)

No rim protection. (LeVert has more blocks per game.)

Hunter has a worse DARKO and EPM than LeVert. Particularly defensively.

Hunter is paid significantly more than LeVert and more than his production. You will probably be able to sign LeVert to the same contract he has now in the offseason, making LeVert + Niang cheaper than Hunter as Hunter's deal escalates. Or you can let LeVert walk and save tax money.

Hunter has played in fewer games that LeVert since he came into the league.

The Hawks don't have enough tax space to let us get under the tax and stay under it themselves, so we still need to pay assets elsewhere to get out of the tax.

Maybe Hunter is younger and has upside. (LeVert might have been as bad a defender as Hunter was at the same age.) But I don't think this trade would make us a better basketball team.

I think a big reason you would do this deal is it resets the "timeline" on LeVert. Hunter is three years younger and on a longer deal.

Its arguable whether or not he's better for the offense with his current playstyle. He's the more versatile scoring option, but what makes LeVert work is that he can generate and find open looks for others as a secondary playmaker. I don't think Hunter has shown that.

The positives for Hunter are:
-he's a complete upgrade on Niang
-his height does fit a niche for the three position
-despite playing around half of his minutes without Trae the last two seasons (1315 minutes with, 1394 without), the offense looks better on the court with him than without him by about +3. Trae was at +3 last year and then +10 this year

Negatives:
-despite playing around half of his minutes without Trae the last two seasons (1315 minutes with, 1394 without), the defense looks worse on the court with him than without him by about -2. Trae was at -3.7 both years (I think LeVert is just the better defender, on and off the ball)
-he's not a major team rebounding boost (at least looking at his on/off DRB numbers for the last 4 years) compared to LeVert despite the extra height
-for how many shots he shoots, he has really low assist numbers (however, his shot diet is mainly assisted so he has a lot less opportunity for assists)

I do think if we are going to consolidate LeVert + Niang into a wing, they need to look for someone who is a tad better than LeVert and idk if Hunter fits the bill. And I assume we'd have to give the Hawks something nice for them to even look at this offer.

[jbk1234]

Given the fact that both LeVert and Niang played significant minutes last night, I think we're standing pat and that's unfortunate.

[toooskies]

Given the fact that both LeVert and Niang played significant minutes last night, I think we're standing pat and that's unfortunate.

With Mitchell, Okoro, and Wade out, we needed them on the court.

I don't think whether they got hurt or not would particularly matter to an acquiring team anyway. I mean, I suppose someone might want LeVert for a playoff run, but he's probably just as valuable as one of the larger moving expiring salaries. Similarly, if Niang turns an ankle he's still the same cost to dump.

And the most likely trade I can see us making is still the acquisition of a cheap backup 4 (who can play the 3 or 5) for 2nds.

[jbk1234]

Given the fact that both LeVert and Niang played significant minutes last night, I think we're standing pat and that's unfortunate.

With Mitchell, Okoro, and Wade out, we needed them on the court.

I don't think whether they got hurt or not would particularly matter to an acquiring team anyway. I mean, I suppose someone might want LeVert for a playoff run, but he's probably just as valuable as one of the larger moving expiring salaries. Similarly, if Niang turns an ankle he's still the same cost to dump.

And the most likely trade I can see us making is still the acquisition of a cheap backup 4 (who can play the 3 or 5) for 2nds.

I'm hoping the Raptors don't want to pay Boucher after trading for Ingram.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://cavaliersnation.com/2025/02/05/report-cavs-linked-to-numerous-other-players-in-addition-to-deandre-hunter/amp/

A little over 4 hours left, ball in your court, Koby.

[ijspeelman]

It would be very odd if they do nothing, but its possible they just like their players more than what they can get and don't care about going below the luxury tax... I don't know if I agree w it, but we will see

[ijspeelman]

Also I am not trading that 2031 first unless we are wow'd by a player. Its our biggest asset outside of our core 4

[JujitsuFlip]

It would be very odd if they do nothing, but its possible they just like their players more than what they can get and don't care about going below the luxury tax... I don't know if I agree w it, but we will see

If that happens, we should be players on the buyout market right away, for spot 15.

[ijspeelman]

It would be very odd if they do nothing, but its possible they just like their players more than what they can get and don't care about going below the luxury tax... I don't know if I agree w it, but we will see

If that happens, we should be players on the buyout market right away, for spot 15.

I am oddly hoping for Ben Simmons. I think he just fits right in as a back-up 4/5. Obvi can't shoot, but he's an excellent switchable defender and extra passer where I think we could still play JA Simmons line-ups.

[JujitsuFlip]

It would be very odd if they do nothing, but its possible they just like their players more than what they can get and don't care about going below the luxury tax... I don't know if I agree w it, but we will see

If that happens, we should be players on the buyout market right away, for spot 15.

I am oddly hoping for Ben Simmons. I think he just fits right in as a back-up 4/5. Obvi can't shoot, but he's an excellent switchable defender and extra passer where I think we could still play JA Simmons line-ups.

Between the yips and injuries, idk.

But we could obviously do worse.

[ijspeelman]

If that happens, we should be players on the buyout market right away, for spot 15.

I am oddly hoping for Ben Simmons. I think he just fits right in as a back-up 4/5. Obvi can't shoot, but he's an excellent switchable defender and extra passer where I think we could still play JA Simmons line-ups.

Between the yips and injuries, idk.

But we could obviously do worse.

For a buyout guy, it really can't get much better imo. They rarely impact teams, but he feels like a special case.

[JujitsuFlip]

Wow, I'm watching the Utility Sports live stream. He speculates the Cavs can land Hunter AND get under the tax, that would be cool. Would have to be a 3 team trade.

[JonFromVA]

fwiw, the Cavs have liked Hunter since the draft. If Garland went to the Lakers, Hunter would likely be a Cavalier.

[JujitsuFlip]

Hunter is a Cav!

[JujitsuFlip]

jbk, you got your wish, Niang is gone. I like the Hunter addition. Wade can move back to the bench now, once healthy.

[JonFromVA]

jbk, you got your wish, Niang is gone. I like the Hunter addition. Wade can move back to the bench now, once healthy.

Wow wow.... of course assuming Hunter can stay healthy.

[JujitsuFlip]

jbk, you got your wish, Niang is gone. I like the Hunter addition. Wade can move back to the bench now, once healthy.

Wow wow.... of course assuming Hunter can stay healthy.

Whichever one is healthy can start SF lol

[JujitsuFlip]

We finally have someone taller than 6'5" to play SF lol

Also, cool to have 2 open roster spots to play the buyout market because we're well below the tax line now.

[Wisedude]

Agree with the trade being made by the Cavs.