Grading the Ingram Trade

[Mister Ze]

Barnes will be entering his 5th season next year and he's spent his entire career tanking with the Raptors. Fans are done losing, the retool is finally over. While Ingram + Quickley + Barrett isn't much different than OG + Siakam + Fred, the overall depth and Barnes leap is much better.

For those who didn't want the Ingram trade what else did you expect to happen in the summer, sign KD?

[Landomar]

From a value standpoint, this trade is an A, assuming that Ingram extends at a reasonable number. Ingram is a very good player, the price to acquire him was relatively low, and it's hard for us to add players this good. It's unlikely that bringing him in ruins the tank this year, and we'll be well positioned to make the playoffs in 2026 and beyond.

[Tor_Raps]

A if you can get him to re-sign and doesn't hurt the tank too much.
F if he walks away as we just wasted assets during a rebuild.

The entire grade is dependent upon being able to re-sign him. We just got an all nba talent for 1 expected late 1st round pick. This is the definition of buying low on someone. If Masai did this without knowing he can't re-sign him then just fire the guy already.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

B plus. Gotta wait for Ingram contract terms to come out.

[ConSarnit]

C

Could be a B+ if everything works out (I am not a huge fan of Ingram). Like others have said it depends on how we play this year out (tanking) and what contract we give him.

If we don't get a high pick this year this team I am not overly enthusiastic about our ceiling over the next few years. We're basically Pelicans East.

[dTox]

C

[Merit]

On principle I gave it a D. Our GM said we are rebuilding and we went and played rookies most of the year and developed a .5 system which looked good. Then he goes out and trades for a ball dominant guy you have to pay $40m a season for.

It is why I have wanted to fire FO for years. They only know shortsighted moves to plug holes. Back in the Siakam/FVV era they needed a C so they burnt picks to get Poeltl. Then in 2024-25 they have a poor scoring team so they trade for in prime Ingram. You don't trade for a guy like this to figure things out. He is more of a missing piece for contention.

Rather than make smart moves on the margins we take big swings with little in the way of plan. To repeat Bill Simmons: "what is Toronto doing? They are not that good and very expensive."

We going to soon run out of small contracts to do deals and become stuck with a oddly fitting and poorly defending core. We better get Cooper Flagg to save us.

You do realize that we still have our MLE, right? Plus Boucher and Mitchell as expirings? Plus all our future firsts and a couple extra 2nds…

[Merit]

C.

I was on board with an Ingram trade. I was not on board with trading a lightly protected 1st and keeping all our salary. Barrett should not be on this roster this morning.

I’ve officially lost my trust in this FO. We have an expensive roster built around the most underwhelming franchise player in our history and coached by a kindergarten teacher. I get that this organization has pride in itself and refuses to act like a small market team, but they’re just coming off as stubborn at this point.

I think you’ll feel better about things once BI plays. It’s gonna be a lot like the demar trade where everyone was shocked and sad and then quickly forgot about it as we went on to win the chip.

[Basketball_Jones]

Locking in a ton of money to Ingram is tough. If he wasn’t so damn injured I’d be okay with it I think. I honestly need a wait and see approach with this. I think he’s probably our most talented player and I’ve kind of seen enough of Barnes as a first option.

[Van_Trump]

I gave it a B.

When we traded OG for Barrett and Quickly it was obvious we were not going for a complete teardown.

Assuming we continue to rest Ingram (and Quickly and Poetl and Barrett) the rest of the year and give the rooks lots of playing time, the tank runs until the draft.

Will Boucher be moved today?

[Merit]

In terms of value, it’s an A. None of us thought he could be acquired so cheaply.

Am I allowed to pat myself on the back?

[NBA Sheady]

I don't see why there is any rush for him or the team to have him back. And if they do, massive minutes restriction.

This is exactly what I was thinking. With no backup 5 and playing the kids, 14 minutes of Ingram is probably not going to win us too many games.

[NBA Sheady]

The range on this is massive:

High dollar contract +lots of injuries = F-
Reasonable contract +reasonable availability (especially playoffs) = A+

[Merit]

Locking in a ton of money to Ingram is tough. If he wasn’t so damn injured I’d be okay with it I think. I honestly need a wait and see approach with this. I think he’s probably our most talented player and I’ve kind of seen enough of Barnes as a first option.

My feeling is that it gives Scottie more time to develop his bag. BI becomes our best offensive player until someone else takes over.

We’re pretty stacked offensively with IQ, RJ, BI, Scottie, Gradey and Jak.

[earthtone]

B : If he is healthy with us
D- : if he continues to be injured like his whole career

He’s averaged 78% of games played per season before this one, and that’s including a couple years where he was shut down to tank and the end of the year.

He’s no ironman, but the injury concerns are way overblown, especially considering he comes from the worst organization in the league when it comes to injury management.

1) wrong, if you removed this season he's missed over 25% of available games. that's not a good number at all

2) you don't just get to remove this year from those stats (he's literally injured this year). If you include this year he's missed nearly 30% of his eligible games. That's really bad

The guy has missed over 25% of his eligible games in the years where he should be the healthiest. That is a real concern.

Yah you're right on the first point, my math was off of that one. Looks like he's played 74% of games not including this season.

I'm still personally not too concerned though. There have been so many players who were labelled 'injury prone' while in New Orleans whose track record of health improved significantly once they left the Pelicans (Josh Hart, Anthony Davis, Dyson Daniels, etc). I'd trust our training staff to have him on the court more than in NOLA.

[djsunyc]

in a vacuum - it's an A

cap space doesn't really mean too much to our franchise

we don't know if the team will fit together and win but you never really know that. more moves will happen, this is just one of them.

[no dice]

A. While I understand many people are for full tank mode for years, it is also important to get SB some help and taste success soon. That's how you show commitment to your franchise guy and it will reduce the risk of bumming him out and potentially want out in the next 2 years.

I have mentioned this before but yes we have created a logjam for the wings and this will give less opportunity for Walter and Ochai, and even Battle whom I really like. I don't want to lose these guys but it is very likely in the next moves to get a good Big to replace JP.

Also, this can't be worse than the IQ extension. Hes being outplayed by DM

[Kingsway_fan]

Gave it A, assuming extention

[6ixpessant]

D

There are a lot more questions today than there was yesterday before the trade.

How much do you pay him? What happens for rest of the season? What do you do with the redundancy (i.e. Barrett) knowing Ingram's also very injury prone when we already got Quickley who's been injury prone as well and still haven't got anything concrete going? Knowing they probably didn't get Ingram intending to lose him, what do you do with RJ Barrett and Poeltl contract situation? You can't possibly justify paying more than $150M to a starting lineup that hasn't done anything whose ceiling don't seem very high based on what they've shown thus far. Something's gotta give there. They've made things much more complicated than they need to be with so much uncertainty. There's a good reason why Ingram didn't garner much demand in the trade market.

The money doesn't matter. MLSE will pay whatever. We're never going to be below the cap.. so why worry about that? Every contract in the NBA, good or bad can be moved.

Roster construction doesn't happen overnight I'm not sure how things are more complicated. It took two no-impact guys and a pick that could amount to nothing, for a guy that is something and will likely be a lot better in Toronto than he was in NO.

Injuries? So be it, sometimes you have a bad run. It's not like Scottie has been bulletproof. Develop depth... RJ will probably be the odd man out and his contract will be easy to move if they so desire.

Ever heard of luxury tax? If you haven't noticed, teams don't touch that **** unless they are contending. Raptors have actively avoided that for a while.

Who cares? MLSE will pay it if the team has a shot. Ya'll worry about the dumbest things as armchair GMs.

[TorontoBarneys]

I can't grade it because it entirely depends on what the Raptors do for the remainder of the season, as well as the actual deal he gets in the summer. Or he could just leave (unlikely, but possible).

It could be an A, but it could also be an F.