2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[penbeast0]

I find it hard to believe Kuzma can still be a serious player after years of tomfoolery in Washington, but I guess we'll see...

He's never been a legit star and shouldn't be ever have been seen as one, but before this year he was a solid though inefficient NBA player who could create shots well and do everything else adequately. Bench creator instant offense guy pushed into a starting role basically. This year, he's having the kind of awful down year that Jordan Poole had last year but otherwise he's basically been the same player first in LA, then scaled up to the same performance with far more minutes and usage in DC.

[parsnips33]

Kobe's post career impact on the Lakers is unfathomable. I know Magic obviously contributed a ton to building the prestige of the franchise, but does LeBron ever go the Lakers if not for Kobe? Does Pelinka (and eventually Luka)?

Really hoping the Steph era ends up paying similar sorts of dividends

Even without Kobe, it's the second biggest city in the USA, the home of Hollywood and the entertainment industry that so many stars fixate on, a warm weather city (unlike NY or Chicago), and with the 2nd most championships and the most finals appearances in NBA history. So, yes, without Kobe they are still the primo free agent destination in the NBA year in and year out.

Why don't we see the same effect in football? And half of those championships since the 70s were Kobe teams. I'm not trying to discount the long history of Lakers prestige, but I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say Kobe is a uniquely popular (meaningful?) player in the modern imagination. And his image is intrinsically tied to the franchise in a way that, just as an example, LeBron's and Cleveland aren't necessarily.

[sp6r=underrated]

Why don't we see the same effect in football?

The NFL is very different.

The NFL is a once a week tv show, in which most revenues are national, the players union is weak to non-existent, players have far shorter careers, career trajectory is tenuous due to the risk of catastrophic injury and player performance is much more team dependent.

It isn't a good comparison point for the NBA (or any other league).

[Dr Positivity]

It seems like LA is by far the most popular offseason place for NBA players.

[MartinToVaught]

Why don't we see the same effect in football?

American-born NBA players are unique in how picky they are about which cities they want to play in. It's not just football, none of the other major sports are like this.

[Doctor MJ]

Kobe's post career impact on the Lakers is unfathomable. I know Magic obviously contributed a ton to building the prestige of the franchise, but does LeBron ever go the Lakers if not for Kobe? Does Pelinka (and eventually Luka)?

Really hoping the Steph era ends up paying similar sorts of dividends

Even without Kobe, it's the second biggest city in the USA, the home of Hollywood and the entertainment industry that so many stars fixate on, a warm weather city (unlike NY or Chicago), and with the 2nd most championships and the most finals appearances in NBA history. So, yes, without Kobe they are still the primo free agent destination in the NBA year in and year out.

Why don't we see the same effect in football? And half of those championships since the 70s were Kobe teams. I'm not trying to discount the long history of Lakers prestige, but I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say Kobe is a uniquely popular (meaningful?) player in the modern imagination. And his image is intrinsically tied to the franchise in a way that, just as an example, LeBron's and Cleveland aren't necessarily.

So first off:

5 of the 11 titles were with Kobe, and 5 of the 11 were with Magic.
After Magic, the Lakers have won 6 more titles, with 4 of them being led by a star other than Kobe.
After Kobe, one.

Re: LeBron not tied to Cavs in the same way. Even if LeBron stayed, Cleveland was never going to matter to players like Los Angeles. Just as if Kobe had not forced his way out of Charlotte, Charlotte still wouldn't matter now no matter what Kobe achieved while he was there.

Re: why no similar effect in football?

1. In football, basically only quarterbacks are comparable to star basketball players.
2. Quarterbacks, like NBA players, do change teams looking to be part of a contender.
3. NBA players rarely go to NBA teams based on location unless that team will be an instant contender, but in an exception like LeBron to the Lakers, it was because LeBron thought that if he just got one superstar teammate to join him, they could win a title. And of course that's what happened. In football, this isn't a realistic thought because football teams are so much bigger and non-QBs are of such minor importance individually.

[parsnips33]

Thank you Andrew Wiggins

[The-Power]

Fun fact: Today was only the second time this season that the Spurs won while being outscored with Wembanyama on the floor. Before that he had a positive +/- in 18 out of their 19 wins when he played (they won two out of six games that he missed). Once the Spurs can more regularly win the minutes with Wembanyama on the bench, they'll be an incredibly dangerous team.

[The-Power]

Thank you Andrew Wiggins

Indeed. I'm not sure if and by how much the Warriors are now better than before but I understand the impulse to swing for the fences and set it all up for a final run over the next one or two and a half years. But one thing is for sure: Wiggins will be missed on the court, and our team has certainly become less likable than it was before. I'll just leave it at that.

[Texas Chuck]

Why don't we see the same effect in football?

American-born NBA players are unique in how picky they are about which cities they want to play in. It's not just football, none of the other major sports are like this.

Baseball is far more about this than basketball. New York used to get its pick of players and still gets a bunch and every great Japanese star has picked LA for a minute now.

[Peregrine01]

It seems like LA is by far the most popular offseason place for NBA players.

I don't get the appeal. There's probably more wealthy private enclaves than anywhere else but you spend half the day in traffic.

[itsxtray]

It seems like LA is by far the most popular offseason place for NBA players.

I don't get the appeal. There's probably more wealthy private enclaves than anywhere else but you spend half the day in traffic.

These people aren't spending the day in traffic. They have people to get whatever they need, and all the places they wanna go are nearby. It's set up that way so they aren't constantly hounded by regular people in the street—that's a huge appeal for the celebrities that live there.

Just imagine how annoying this would be to deal with everytime you wen't out.

Watch on YouTube

[MartinToVaught]

every great Japanese star has picked LA for a minute now.

That has more to do with the Ohtani effect than the market itself. Japanese stars would have followed Ohtani to any team that isn't owned by a moron or a cheapskate.

New York getting its pick of players is also a little overrated nowadays. The Mets have swung and missed on a lot of big names despite having Cohen's deep pockets. Their biggest signing was already playing in New York and still had to be given the biggest contract in MLB history to get him to sign. Similarly, the Yankees had to give Gerrit Cole the biggest contract ever given to a pitcher to pry him away from Houston. These teams could play on Mars and it wouldn't matter when they're willing to spend almost $800 million on a single player.

[parsnips33]

Thank you Andrew Wiggins

Indeed. I'm not sure if and by how much the Warriors are now better than before but I understand the impulse to swing for the fences and set it all up for a final run over the next one or two and a half years. But one thing is for sure: Wiggins will be missed on the court, and our team has certainly become less likable than it was before. I'll just leave it at that.

Our team becoming less likable to other fanbases only makes it more likable to me Draymond rubbing off on me I guess

But yeah Wiggs was a pro and blew past my expectations of him

[Doctor MJ]

every great Japanese star has picked LA for a minute now.

That has more to do with the Ohtani effect than the market itself. Japanese stars would have followed Ohtani to any team that isn't owned by a moron or a cheapskate.

Shohei's just the continuation of a trend that began with Hideo Nomo. Sure Shohei is way better, but there's a continued trend of Japanese players preferring to play on the Pacific coast, with the Dodgers being the most preferred of those franchises.

[Doctor MJ]

Why don't we see the same effect in football?

American-born NBA players are unique in how picky they are about which cities they want to play in. It's not just football, none of the other major sports are like this.

Baseball is far more about this than basketball. New York used to get its pick of players and still gets a bunch and every great Japanese star has picked LA for a minute now.

Yup, and of course baseball is the sport with the strongest union which has pushed for the highest possible salaries most effectively.

If NY/LA teams could pay way more than everyone else in any sport, that's where the athletes would go.

[MartinToVaught]

Shohei's just the continuation of a trend that began with Hideo Nomo.

That's a stretch. Ichiro didn't pick the Dodgers, Darvish didn't pick the Dodgers, Hideki Matsui didn't pick the Dodgers, even Ohtani himself didn't pick the Dodgers the first time around. This trend of all the top Japanese stars joining the Dodgers together is new.

[sp6r=underrated]

I live in SF so I am a little bit biased but I think the Curry era will have permanent dividends. SF isn't an LA/NYC but it is a major city and the richest metro in the country. The Curry era has established the Warriors as far as I can tell with players as a major franchise going forward. I don't see any chance they'll recede back into the every other franchise rank.I'd be floored if they didn't maintain a relationship with all the big guns during the run (even with the very annoying Durant).

BTW, did any franchise stick the landing worse than the Bulls? Chicago as a city isn't growing anymore but it is still massive and rich. The Cubs are a huge team in their sport. The Bulls had an opportunity to end up that way in basketball if management had more forsight. Instead management was just egregious penny-pinchers and killed any opportunity of converting some of the Jordan Bulls national fans into Bulls fans.

FWIW, I think Atlanta would establish itself as the big, non-NYC market, on the East Coast if the Hawks ever went on a big run ala the Warriors. Atlanta is a fast growing metro, very appealing to African-Americans (I'm not black just my perception), good culture, strong economy (not implying it is SF on that front), etc. In a lot of ways it is a sleeping giant on the East Coast free agency front. If I was a SE team that wasn't Atlanta I'd be very worried if they got their act together.

[Doctor MJ]

Shohei's just the continuation of a trend that began with Hideo Nomo.

That's a stretch. Ichiro didn't pick the Dodgers, Darvish didn't pick the Dodgers, Hideki Matsui didn't pick the Dodgers, even Ohtani himself didn't pick the Dodgers the first time around. This trend of all the top Japanese stars joining the Dodgers together is new.

Seriously? I reply to you with a 2 line response, and you have to cut out the part of my answer that emphasizes the Pacific coast?

Martin, I've always appreciated you as a poster, but right now you seem conspiratorial both in your reasoning and in your actions. Makes me feel like there's no point in responding more to you because you're going to try to manipulate the situation to make me look bad.

[MartinToVaught]

Shohei's just the continuation of a trend that began with Hideo Nomo.

That's a stretch. Ichiro didn't pick the Dodgers, Darvish didn't pick the Dodgers, Hideki Matsui didn't pick the Dodgers, even Ohtani himself didn't pick the Dodgers the first time around. This trend of all the top Japanese stars joining the Dodgers together is new.

Seriously? I reply to you with a 2 line response, and you have to cut out the part of my answer that emphasizes the Pacific coast?

Martin, I've always appreciated you as a poster, but right now you seem conspiratorial both in your reasoning and in your actions. Makes me feel like there's no point in responding more to you because you're going to try to manipulate the situation to make me look bad.

I certainly don't mean to make you look bad, nor do I think there's some conspiracy here, so I apologize if I gave that impression. I just think going all the way back to the Nomo signing in 1995 is glossing over a long stretch of time. I'm not sure I'd call the pre-Ohtani Dodgers the "most preferred choice" for Japanese players when the top guys were often going to Seattle, Dallas, Boston, New York, so on and so forth. I think the Ohtani phenomenon is really the driving factor for why that's changed.