Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
lilfishi22 wrote:bwgood77 wrote:RaisingArizona wrote:Thanks for the shout out bruh
Hey, he only knows you as ginobiliflops
Also great to get a Weeks sighting as well
TeamTragic wrote:BobbieL wrote:Slim Charless wrote:Shams basically said that we're having an open house this summer if we can't turn it around. Sooooo Booker and Durant is what that means.
Glad to see RealGM working
Yes the Suns need a new GM for one thing
Open house should mean Book and KD are open to trade
As for the rest of the year - see what happens . I think they kind of implode
Why did Ishbia even keep Jones? It blows my mind.
garrick wrote:TeamTragic wrote:BobbieL wrote:
Glad to see RealGM working
Yes the Suns need a new GM for one thing
Open house should mean Book and KD are open to trade
As for the rest of the year - see what happens . I think they kind of implode
Why did Ishbia even keep Jones? It blows my mind.
He needs a scapegoat when he inevitably hires a new GM and fires Jones.
Jones is just a pathetic yes man and only knows how to draft older 3&D wings and ask him to draft a decent center or point guard or power forward he just can't or won't do it.
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Someone linked Charlotte the Nurkic gym videos
bwgood77 wrote:If you hate when realgm goes down and want to continue discussion, we can do it at the following link if you'd like. I've become increasingly concerned it may go down more recently since it is so outdated. But another place to discuss and you can sign up using your realgm name. https://discord.gg/syxGs4GQ
bwgood77 wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Qwigglez wrote:I think a soft reset is in order this summer.
We likely won't get a great value out of trading KD, but it's worth pursuing a trade if it helps short-term and long-term.
I don't see us trading Booker under any circumstances unless he specifically asks to be traded. I'm not sure he'd do that at this stage in his career. Since Ishbia had the courtesy of allowing KD to choose his destination by NOT trading him to the Warriors OR Grizzlies, I would assume he will give Booker that same courtesy. This goes a long way in helping set a certain precedence for potential free agents in the future.
Beal won't be moved until his contract is closer to expiring.
Royce O'Neal contract runs until 2027-28 season. It's a great valuable contract for a quality veteran. Ideally the Suns can move him to a championship caliber team for a younger player but we'll see. Same with Grayson Allen.
I'm of the same mindset.
I think we need a soft reset. Sell KD to the highest bidder, ideally there's some useful players coming back (but focus on draft capital) and continue to compete with Book as the man. As I've said before, trading Book is a non-starter, UNLESS we get some messaging from his camp that he wants out. We're not gonna do him like the Mavs did Luka.
Move Grayson for more size (and maybe a pick). Keep Royce as he probably has more value to us than on the market and he does a lot of what Grayson does but with more size and rebounding.
I think if they are smart, they may talk to Book and say "look, we tried with KD, but obviously it's not working, so we feel it is best to move him and we feel we need to get younger, more athletic, better defensively, and bigger" and discuss what they think they can do and what is possible.
I think it kind of sucks because I think it's smart for both parties to move on. I think it's pretty obvious that if we keep Book as a Suns lifer, we now don't have the capital or assets to get enough pieces around him to compete at a high level. Now we could hold out for 2027 free agency and hope we can sign some star, but is Book, some other star and a bunch of journeyman role players much different?
The thing is, if we can't trade Book to Houston for our picks, a rebuild doesn't make total sense unless we somehow get a bunch of good young players for him from another team and/or picks we know are good.
What is interesting is that Booker's career is kind of mirroring Beal's. Book is looking great as a playmaker averaging 6.6 apg, after hitting his career highs in scoring the last couple of years. Beal, at 28, the year after he averaged over 31 ppg, averaged 6.6 apg when he was 28. Beal experienced winning some playoff rounds earlier in his career than Book did, whereas Book didn't do so until we got Paul.
Beal did start dealing with more injuries that year when he was 28, and then the max contract that he got and now Book has, started looking worse and worse.
Booker is viewed as a premier asset right now I believe. But I think that value probably could start to decline in not too long. Right now he is in his absolute prime (though he is having a down year shooting overall), but he has 3 more years on his deal before he is an existing FA. I'm not saying he will get a lot worse soon or anything, but he will be under contract for fewer years and approaching the wrong side of 30.
Beal was one of the first 35% super maxes though, and with his injuries, his contract has declined. With some of these big extensions into the $70 millions for some of these guys like Embiid, some of these contracts that have already been signed from like Booker's class probably won't ever look like a bad contract.
I know you both stated that you don't think we would trade him under any circumstances, but would you risk letting him go into UFA in 3 years? We could potentially extend him.
How good, realistically, with the state of the rest of the west, do you think we can get with him? Now I understand that you can also ask the question how good could we get without him?
It's quite the quandary. Because he's been great for the franchise overall, even though it's mostly come with losing a lot of games, outside of the Paul years, but he has been the bright spot. But he does have his supermax, so is it better to keep him here or gauge with him how he feels? Maybe say we would love for you to be a Sun for life but we also know we are not as competitive as either of us would have liked, and we understand if you'd like to get to a contender. I am not sure the best way to broach or pose that conversation. But it seems like an obvious one that should be had.
I also wish Dillon Brooks wasn't in Houston. I feel like if we do trade him there we need to take Brooks, though I wouldn't really want to...he makes a bit much for what he does. Though we did want him before and he plays 30+ minutes for a really good Houston game, so clearly he must be contributing quite a bit. He has always brought toughness and scrappiness, from when he was at Oregon playing against AZ. Of course I'd prefer Green along with one of their PFs and maybe another prospect and a couple picks.
But I digress.
Back to my question, do you just go into UFA with him in 3 years? Do you think we extend him? Do you think he will want to extend if we trade KD? Do you think he will want to stay here? I think he would want to if he knew we would, but he doesn't seem to be quite at the tier where he makes us relevant by himself, like Dirk, or Kobe, where those guys would not miss the playoffs regardless and you just needed the pieces.
Slim Charless wrote:bullsaficianado wrote:Gonna say I bet Durant has his eye on joining the Spurs for next season if the Suns trade him this summer. Wemby, Fox and Durant would be very tough to beat.
I think a return home to OKC might be nice and a good end to his story. Bringing his OG team a chip.
Qwigglez wrote:Suns are too one-dimensional. We bought into this strange narrative that allowed the Suns to make the NBA Finals in 2021 where the Suns turned what the league thought was a poor shot being the midrange, and the Suns exploited it, and made a living shooting those middies. Suns became a lethal midrange shooting team, and instead of improving other facets of the team, they thought to just double down on shooting.
Beal, Booker, and KD do not attack the rim enough. I was actually pleasantly surprised against OKC in the first half when I saw Beal and Booker drive to the rim. Maybe it was just me noticing more, IDK. But the Suns continuously fall in love with jumpers. This is why Jimmy Butler was going to be such a difference maker if the Suns made the trade for him. More than half of his shots are within 10 feet of the basket. Devin Booker this season, takes 27% of his shots within 10 feet. 1 out of every 10 shots for Booker are within 3 feet. Kevin Durant is the same exact thing. He takes 27% of his shots within 10 feet. Beal takes 35% of his shots within 10 feet, 17% are within 3 feet. Compared to last season where Beal was taking 42% of his shots within 10 feet, 23% within 3 feet.
So, what happened? Did their balls drop off? I get Bud's system wants us to take more 3s, but they could probably get more 3s by their role players if the big 3 decided to drive to the basket more and didn't act like dogs with their tails between their legs.
The Suns need to drive more, stop taking the middies. 3s or layups/dunks.
thamadkant wrote:If KD to OKC is a thing, Ishiba better not blink and accept anything less than Jalen Williams or Chet plus a pick. Jalen Williams is sitting happy under the radar below Shai, but man this guy is like a bigger longer Jrue Holiday who can shoot the 3. Dream SG for me.
bwgood77 wrote:Obviously I'd be game for that Slim but I don't really see OKC messing with their chemistry and liking playing together to get a player that spurned them in FA to go for their rival who is over 10 years older than their core. They don't really need another scorer anyway. I know LeBron went back to Cleveland but that was in FA. I think the vast majority of teams in the NBA would take JDub over KD straight up. Age, salary, wide arrange of skills, etc. OKC doesn't need to do anything. They may not win it all but they are way ahead of schedule. Now if Ishbia owned OKC, he'd probably try and make that trade.
I don't see Houston trading Amen at this point either. Obviously I take that deal too if we could get it. OKC will be able to continue to have rookie deals for a lot of their roster and paid people like Dort and Hartenstein a lot now while the other guys are making less. Those guys probably stick around for lower salaries after. At least Dort.
thamadkant wrote:If KD to OKC is a thing, Ishiba better not blink and accept anything less than Jalen Williams or Chet plus a pick. Jalen Williams is sitting happy under the radar below Shai, but man this guy is like a bigger longer Jrue Holiday who can shoot the 3. Dream SG for me.
thamadkant wrote:If KD to OKC is a thing, Ishiba better not blink and accept anything less than Jalen Williams or Chet plus a pick. Jalen Williams is sitting happy under the radar below Shai, but man this guy is like a bigger longer Jrue Holiday who can shoot the 3. Dream SG for me.
Slim Charless wrote:thamadkant wrote:If KD to OKC is a thing, Ishiba better not blink and accept anything less than Jalen Williams or Chet plus a pick. Jalen Williams is sitting happy under the radar below Shai, but man this guy is like a bigger longer Jrue Holiday who can shoot the 3. Dream SG for me.
JDubb is happy....for now. That will last only so long and it'll start with the payday he wants coming this summer.
OKC can get his offense and then some from KD and his defense can be cobbled from the Caruso, Dort, Wallace combo.
IMO (just so people don't think I'm saying this is a for sure thing) OKC can make the move and buy an elite player to put next to SGA. We'll see who else becomes available, but at the moment it seems that KD and (Booker) will the best available to teams looking to add.
Gives us the decided advantage in negotiations.
thamadkant wrote:Slim Charless wrote:thamadkant wrote:If KD to OKC is a thing, Ishiba better not blink and accept anything less than Jalen Williams or Chet plus a pick. Jalen Williams is sitting happy under the radar below Shai, but man this guy is like a bigger longer Jrue Holiday who can shoot the 3. Dream SG for me.
JDubb is happy....for now. That will last only so long and it'll start with the payday he wants coming this summer.
OKC can get his offense and then some from KD and his defense can be cobbled from the Caruso, Dort, Wallace combo.
IMO (just so people don't think I'm saying this is a for sure thing) OKC can make the move and buy an elite player to put next to SGA. We'll see who else becomes available, but at the moment it seems that KD and (Booker) will the best available to teams looking to add.
Gives us the decided advantage in negotiations.
I think Jalen Williams is like a James Harden type of bloomer if and when he gets to be the main man. I would build around him on the Suns.
Then trade Booker to Rockets for Amen and 2 of the Suns picks, and you have an elite defensive wing combo.... then try to pry away Scottie Barnes and you have a dynasty in the making.