Grading the Ingram Trade

[Rawahl]

I gave it a C, but there are a lot of ifs that could modify my grade:
--> Free agency: if we lose BI in free agency it would be the worst case, so I hope he gets extended ASAP.
--> Price Tag: if we overpay (with a player option) for his services it could handcuff us and cost us even more picks to unload him should he not reach his potential. We have to remember that borderline All-stars are the real danger for every cap
--> Play: can he contribute and how will the team evolve. I would be elated if we manage somehow to crack top 4 in the lottery and can choose a very good prospect, but I would also enjoy a playoff series as a team on the rise. I only hope that we don't get stuck in the middle (picking 10-14) where all the good prospects are already gone.

The C comes from the following reasoning. There have been many recent superstars, that have been taken not on the top of the draft (Giannis, SGA) and our FO desperately tried to get a higher pick to take them, failing every time. We risk to be in the same situation again. I don't know what player our FO will try to get, but at the end, the higher you pick, the more choices you have. And for once, I think it would have been possible to organize a good tank. The team would have been to strong to get a good tank position, but with all our injuries we got a head start. Now there is only the possibility to ruin everything.

They are going to extend BI soon, he's extension eligible and wants to be here. They will likely play hard ball with him since no one wants him at the price he expects.

Ingram is a better scorer than Siakam and we desperately need half court creation, he's going to address that issue. Borderline all stars are where you have to gamble as a small market non-destination team. Ingram is just entering his prime and when he's not injured he's all star level. Barnes and Ingram is comparable to Bachero and Wagner among other forward star combos.

Bobby has already came out and stated this season is still for development and rebuilding. We're going to give even more minutes to Mogbo, Battle, Dick, Walter, and Shead. I can see Chomche getting minutes as well. We won't be playing Ingram, Quickely, and our other staple starters heavily until next season. We will be slotted in the 4-6 position when the lottery happens.

The Raptors are probably going to draft 1 of the top 3 or Maluach. After that happens we will have every hole in our line up plugged and ready to go for next season.

If we're a top 6 team that will translate to our assets having higher value. I would guess at that point we will be in the running for any stars that become available and gradually become contenders. By the time Barnes contract is over we will have multiple deep playoff runs.

I like the optimism of your prediction. But at the same time, its only a prediction and it could go the other way around: we miss the playoffs at the last play-in game and pick at 12, missing the generational talent that has been picked at 10. BI gets a big bag elsewhere (like FVV) and we are left with less assets.
It was a bold move trying to consolidate assets and position us better, but it has its risks, that's why at the present stage its a C. I hope for the best outcome (your post ^^) and that in hindsight I can say it was a great trade.

[Thaddy]

I gave it a C, but there are a lot of ifs that could modify my grade:
--> Free agency: if we lose BI in free agency it would be the worst case, so I hope he gets extended ASAP.
--> Price Tag: if we overpay (with a player option) for his services it could handcuff us and cost us even more picks to unload him should he not reach his potential. We have to remember that borderline All-stars are the real danger for every cap
--> Play: can he contribute and how will the team evolve. I would be elated if we manage somehow to crack top 4 in the lottery and can choose a very good prospect, but I would also enjoy a playoff series as a team on the rise. I only hope that we don't get stuck in the middle (picking 10-14) where all the good prospects are already gone.

The C comes from the following reasoning. There have been many recent superstars, that have been taken not on the top of the draft (Giannis, SGA) and our FO desperately tried to get a higher pick to take them, failing every time. We risk to be in the same situation again. I don't know what player our FO will try to get, but at the end, the higher you pick, the more choices you have. And for once, I think it would have been possible to organize a good tank. The team would have been to strong to get a good tank position, but with all our injuries we got a head start. Now there is only the possibility to ruin everything.

They are going to extend BI soon, he's extension eligible and wants to be here. They will likely play hard ball with him since no one wants him at the price he expects.

Ingram is a better scorer than Siakam and we desperately need half court creation, he's going to address that issue. Borderline all stars are where you have to gamble as a small market non-destination team. Ingram is just entering his prime and when he's not injured he's all star level. Barnes and Ingram is comparable to Bachero and Wagner among other forward star combos.

Bobby has already came out and stated this season is still for development and rebuilding. We're going to give even more minutes to Mogbo, Battle, Dick, Walter, and Shead. I can see Chomche getting minutes as well. We won't be playing Ingram, Quickely, and our other staple starters heavily until next season. We will be slotted in the 4-6 position when the lottery happens.

The Raptors are probably going to draft 1 of the top 3 or Maluach. After that happens we will have every hole in our line up plugged and ready to go for next season.

If we're a top 6 team that will translate to our assets having higher value. I would guess at that point we will be in the running for any stars that become available and gradually become contenders. By the time Barnes contract is over we will have multiple deep playoff runs.

I like the optimism of your prediction. But at the same time, its only a prediction and it could go the other way around: we miss the playoffs at the last play-in game and pick at 12, missing the generational talent that has been picked at 10. BI gets a big bag elsewhere (like FVV) and we are left with less assets.
It was a bold move trying to consolidate assets and position us better, but it has its risks, that's why at the present stage its a C. I hope for the best outcome (your post ^^) and that in hindsight I can say it was a great trade.

There aren't any teams in free agency who will do that. Not many teams have cap room and the 2nd apron is a real issue. That's why teams aren't selling picks like candy anymore.

If we weren't riddled with injuries we would have been 9th or 10th this season. It's reasonable to expect Ingram and a top 7 pick propels us to the top 6 in the conference. We have one of the stronger starting groups in the league and the bench will have another year of development under them.

Poeltl / Maluach / Chomche

The C rotation with Maluach as the back up would be in a much better place than it was 2 years ago.

Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher

The defense at our PF position ranks as some of the best in the league.

Ingram / Agbaji / Battle

That's a good combination of creation, and 3+D

Barrett / Dick / Walter

This is probably our strongest position. We have a lot of young talent that has been and will continue to emerge.

IQ / Shead / POR 2nd (Sergio?)

That's a good combination of both offense and defense. We haven't seen IQ fully healthy but he's a good scoring guard and probably our 2nd or 3rd option.

I don't see anything I stated as homerism. We have a lot of good players on the roster, the next step is developing them to fit together.

[Drakeem]

It’s an A provided BI extends here.

For all those people thinking we’re suddenly gunning for a playoff spot, we just gave up the vets that were helping us win, Davion Mitchell for picks (like everyone wanted), and got a guy that might not even play most of the season.

The Raptors were never going to tank for longer than a season. You would have to get rid of Barnes bc the timelines wouldn’t fit if we were going to go for 3-4 years of being a bottom feeder. Funniest part is that we have TONS of examples of that just not working, but suddenly it’s the best plan.

The tank is still on, and next year we’ll be entering the year with two former all stars, a solid starting line up, a youth mob bench, and a top pick from this year. I’ll take that over the Charlotte/Detroit situation. For all the talk about Detroit doing it the right way, are we even sure Cade is going to be THAT guy?

[Pointgod]

Not a fan of this trade, tbh. I gave it a C. I have never been high on Ingram myself, so I really do wonder what the front office sees in him as a player, but he is at least talented enough to warrant trading for.

It's pretty apparent that Masai thought he was being clever again by using Bruce Brown and Kelly Olynyk as salary fillers for Ingram after he failed to find any takers for them. I have a feeling this will backfire spectacularly, like most of his other "clever" trades (Grent and Poeltl come to mind), once Ingram gets vastly overpaid for what he brings and his contract cripples any remaining flexibility the Raptors have while being too difficult to move for value in the second apron era. My guess is Ingram's new contract is well above $40 million per year? Quickley got paid way more than anyone expected and I expect the same to happen with Ingram here. The Pacers pick was certainly necessary to complete the trade, but losing that pick (ie. cheap rookie contract and chosen by a well-drafting FO) will definitely hurt if the Pacers end up being worse than expected next season, which is still possible.

Between the Raptors stacking up meaningless wins over the last few weeks to lower their odds of getting true game-changing talent in the draft (in part thanks to players who are not part of the Raptors future), and this acquisition of Ingram to put next to Quickley and Barrett and Barnes who themselves are highly paid, it could very well be possible that the Raptors' window of contention ends before it could really begin. Unless Masai manages to rip off a few teams again, the ceiling of this team might be set at something like 2nd round exit for the foreseeable future.

Ingram and his team know that no one was willing to give him what he wants. There aren't many teams with cap space in the off season so the Raptors can play hard ball with him. They'll likely sign him to a 3 year 100M deal. That would be fair value for his production and the fact he's in his prime.

The other side needs to be considered too. Could the Raptors add a similarly talented player in free agency or through the draft? The chances of that are close to 0. They'll now be adding a top 10 pick, Ingram, and have an improved line up by shifting players to be in better positions. This means Barrett will be a SG again and Gradey will boost their bench.

Poeltl / Chomche / Maluach (2025 1st)
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Larrea (2025 2nd)

That's a much stronger roster than what they started this season with. They also have a lot of flexibility, they can breakdown Barrett's contract and add on a cheap contract like Battle, Walter, or Agbaji and get back 2 great role players.

So you believe Ingram is going to take a pay cut? lol I swear we have the most delusional fans on realgm.

[Thaddy]

Not a fan of this trade, tbh. I gave it a C. I have never been high on Ingram myself, so I really do wonder what the front office sees in him as a player, but he is at least talented enough to warrant trading for.

It's pretty apparent that Masai thought he was being clever again by using Bruce Brown and Kelly Olynyk as salary fillers for Ingram after he failed to find any takers for them. I have a feeling this will backfire spectacularly, like most of his other "clever" trades (Grent and Poeltl come to mind), once Ingram gets vastly overpaid for what he brings and his contract cripples any remaining flexibility the Raptors have while being too difficult to move for value in the second apron era. My guess is Ingram's new contract is well above $40 million per year? Quickley got paid way more than anyone expected and I expect the same to happen with Ingram here. The Pacers pick was certainly necessary to complete the trade, but losing that pick (ie. cheap rookie contract and chosen by a well-drafting FO) will definitely hurt if the Pacers end up being worse than expected next season, which is still possible.

Between the Raptors stacking up meaningless wins over the last few weeks to lower their odds of getting true game-changing talent in the draft (in part thanks to players who are not part of the Raptors future), and this acquisition of Ingram to put next to Quickley and Barrett and Barnes who themselves are highly paid, it could very well be possible that the Raptors' window of contention ends before it could really begin. Unless Masai manages to rip off a few teams again, the ceiling of this team might be set at something like 2nd round exit for the foreseeable future.

Ingram and his team know that no one was willing to give him what he wants. There aren't many teams with cap space in the off season so the Raptors can play hard ball with him. They'll likely sign him to a 3 year 100M deal. That would be fair value for his production and the fact he's in his prime.

The other side needs to be considered too. Could the Raptors add a similarly talented player in free agency or through the draft? The chances of that are close to 0. They'll now be adding a top 10 pick, Ingram, and have an improved line up by shifting players to be in better positions. This means Barrett will be a SG again and Gradey will boost their bench.

Poeltl / Chomche / Maluach (2025 1st)
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Larrea (2025 2nd)

That's a much stronger roster than what they started this season with. They also have a lot of flexibility, they can breakdown Barrett's contract and add on a cheap contract like Battle, Walter, or Agbaji and get back 2 great role players.

So you believe Ingram is going to take a pay cut? lol I swear we have the most delusional fans on realgm.

Re-read... I didn't say pay cut anywhere. There's nothing delusional about paying market rate for an above average forward. If you haven't noticed its a buyers market.

[tsherkin]

For all those people thinking we’re suddenly gunning for a playoff spot, we just gave up the vets that were helping us win, Davion Mitchell for picks (like everyone wanted), and got a guy that might not even play most of the season.

That's true. We'll see what that does to our defense.

The Raptors were never going to tank for longer than a season. You would have to get rid of Barnes bc the timelines wouldn’t fit if we were going to go for 3-4 years of being a bottom feeder. Funniest part is that we have TONS of examples of that just not working, but suddenly it’s the best plan.

The tank is still on, and next year we’ll be entering the year with two former all stars, a solid starting line up, a youth mob bench, and a top pick from this year. I’ll take that over the Charlotte/Detroit situation. For all the talk about Detroit doing it the right way, are we even sure Cade is going to be THAT guy?

Next year, for sure, we should be trying to build up. I think the main concern is just that this upcoming draft has some very exciting talent at the very top, and we don't want bad FOMO from winning too much in a lost season. The concern is always that management will try to salvage the season when they should just let it go in a year like this.

But we'll see. Like you said, we moved some guys. Bruce Brown was getting like 15 mpg, Olynyk was getting like 15, 20 mpg, Davion MItchell was getting like 25 mpg recently. What will change with them gone? How long will Ingram be out?

So maybe it'll work out. And if it does, well, then 60 games or so of Ingram for the next few years wouldn't be so bad alongside Bailey or Flagg as we start building back to being a competitive team.

[MEDIC]

It's nice to know that we will be cheering for a playoff push next season.

Should be exciting.

[Gavin_TDThree]

I gave it a C as well based on the following:

Downside:
- My personal preference was the patient approach to building, ie draft high this year, marginal improvements next year, draft a little lower - the Orlando Magic approach more or less.
- Kind of feels like buying a Porsche because the price was good but we are still renting our apartment and want to save up to buy a home.
- Injury concerns + lack of availability. We saw how Zach Lavine's contract aged, at one point being viewed as the worst contract in the NBA next to Beals. Luckily he had a bounce back year and they were able to get off it without selling the farm. BI is looking for a contract, what's that number? What are the years? Can he stay healthy enough that it doesn't become a massive negative contract?
- BI hasn't really been apart of winning teams. This could be health, roster construct, and so on. However, does he have a real impact winning?

Upside:
- the price point for a healthy fully realized version of Ingram would have been wayyyy higher than this. We honestly got him for a great price.
- If healthy, he is the perfect fit for this team in terms of skillset and position. SB can truly act as a hub on offence and I'd expect an uptick in his scoring now that he's not the #1 option.


I think this trade has potential to be amazing if everything breaks in the right direction for sure. If we can continue "tanking" this year and land a top pick that's huge. Come back next year with a solid starting lineup, and solid young bench (young guns 2.0).

There's a path that this team becomes really fun to watch in the next year or so. My concern has always been shortsighted moves by this FO.

[RoteSchroder]

Not a fan of this trade, tbh. I gave it a C. I have never been high on Ingram myself, so I really do wonder what the front office sees in him as a player, but he is at least talented enough to warrant trading for.

It's pretty apparent that Masai thought he was being clever again by using Bruce Brown and Kelly Olynyk as salary fillers for Ingram after he failed to find any takers for them. I have a feeling this will backfire spectacularly, like most of his other "clever" trades (Grent and Poeltl come to mind), once Ingram gets vastly overpaid for what he brings and his contract cripples any remaining flexibility the Raptors have while being too difficult to move for value in the second apron era. My guess is Ingram's new contract is well above $40 million per year? Quickley got paid way more than anyone expected and I expect the same to happen with Ingram here. The Pacers pick was certainly necessary to complete the trade, but losing that pick (ie. cheap rookie contract and chosen by a well-drafting FO) will definitely hurt if the Pacers end up being worse than expected next season, which is still possible.

Between the Raptors stacking up meaningless wins over the last few weeks to lower their odds of getting true game-changing talent in the draft (in part thanks to players who are not part of the Raptors future), and this acquisition of Ingram to put next to Quickley and Barrett and Barnes who themselves are highly paid, it could very well be possible that the Raptors' window of contention ends before it could really begin. Unless Masai manages to rip off a few teams again, the ceiling of this team might be set at something like 2nd round exit for the foreseeable future.

Ingram and his team know that no one was willing to give him what he wants. There aren't many teams with cap space in the off season so the Raptors can play hard ball with him. They'll likely sign him to a 3 year 100M deal. That would be fair value for his production and the fact he's in his prime.

The other side needs to be considered too. Could the Raptors add a similarly talented player in free agency or through the draft? The chances of that are close to 0. They'll now be adding a top 10 pick, Ingram, and have an improved line up by shifting players to be in better positions. This means Barrett will be a SG again and Gradey will boost their bench.

Poeltl / Chomche / Maluach (2025 1st)
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Larrea (2025 2nd)

That's a much stronger roster than what they started this season with. They also have a lot of flexibility, they can breakdown Barrett's contract and add on a cheap contract like Battle, Walter, or Agbaji and get back 2 great role players.

So you believe Ingram is going to take a pay cut? lol I swear we have the most delusional fans on realgm.

He just waived his trade bonus, but I think it will be made up in his extension. I’m guessing 40 M/year, maybe on a short term with a player option

[ConSarnit]

I gave it a C, but there are a lot of ifs that could modify my grade:
--> Free agency: if we lose BI in free agency it would be the worst case, so I hope he gets extended ASAP.
--> Price Tag: if we overpay (with a player option) for his services it could handcuff us and cost us even more picks to unload him should he not reach his potential. We have to remember that borderline All-stars are the real danger for every cap
--> Play: can he contribute and how will the team evolve. I would be elated if we manage somehow to crack top 4 in the lottery and can choose a very good prospect, but I would also enjoy a playoff series as a team on the rise. I only hope that we don't get stuck in the middle (picking 10-14) where all the good prospects are already gone.

The C comes from the following reasoning. There have been many recent superstars, that have been taken not on the top of the draft (Giannis, SGA) and our FO desperately tried to get a higher pick to take them, failing every time. We risk to be in the same situation again. I don't know what player our FO will try to get, but at the end, the higher you pick, the more choices you have. And for once, I think it would have been possible to organize a good tank. The team would have been to strong to get a good tank position, but with all our injuries we got a head start. Now there is only the possibility to ruin everything.

They are going to extend BI soon, he's extension eligible and wants to be here. They will likely play hard ball with him since no one wants him at the price he expects.

Ingram is a better scorer than Siakam and we desperately need half court creation, he's going to address that issue. Borderline all stars are where you have to gamble as a small market non-destination team. Ingram is just entering his prime and when he's not injured he's all star level. Barnes and Ingram is comparable to Bachero and Wagner among other forward star combos.

Bobby has already came out and stated this season is still for development and rebuilding. We're going to give even more minutes to Mogbo, Battle, Dick, Walter, and Shead. I can see Chomche getting minutes as well. We won't be playing Ingram, Quickely, and our other staple starters heavily until next season. We will be slotted in the 4-6 position when the lottery happens.

The Raptors are probably going to draft 1 of the top 3 or Maluach. After that happens we will have every hole in our line up plugged and ready to go for next season.

If we're a top 6 team that will translate to our assets having higher value. I would guess at that point we will be in the running for any stars that become available and gradually become contenders. By the time Barnes contract is over we will have multiple deep playoff runs.

I like the optimism of your prediction. But at the same time, its only a prediction and it could go the other way around: we miss the playoffs at the last play-in game and pick at 12, missing the generational talent that has been picked at 10. BI gets a big bag elsewhere (like FVV) and we are left with less assets.
It was a bold move trying to consolidate assets and position us better, but it has its risks, that's why at the present stage its a C. I hope for the best outcome (your post ^^) and that in hindsight I can say it was a great trade.

You do realize that for us to pick at 12 we'd have to finished the season 23-9, which is effectively the pace of the 3rd best team in the league? And that we have to do this without Ingram (who knows when he's back) and 2 of our key bench guys (Brown and Mitchell).

[ConSarnit]

Ingram and his team know that no one was willing to give him what he wants. There aren't many teams with cap space in the off season so the Raptors can play hard ball with him. They'll likely sign him to a 3 year 100M deal. That would be fair value for his production and the fact he's in his prime.

The other side needs to be considered too. Could the Raptors add a similarly talented player in free agency or through the draft? The chances of that are close to 0. They'll now be adding a top 10 pick, Ingram, and have an improved line up by shifting players to be in better positions. This means Barrett will be a SG again and Gradey will boost their bench.

Poeltl / Chomche / Maluach (2025 1st)
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Larrea (2025 2nd)

That's a much stronger roster than what they started this season with. They also have a lot of flexibility, they can breakdown Barrett's contract and add on a cheap contract like Battle, Walter, or Agbaji and get back 2 great role players.

So you believe Ingram is going to take a pay cut? lol I swear we have the most delusional fans on realgm.

He just waived his trade bonus, but I think it will be made up in his extension. I’m guessing 40 M/year, maybe on a short term with a player option

I'm guessing he gets something like 3/126. This would be a slight raise from his previous contract (25% max) but not the 30% he was looking for. If Ingram gets the exact same contract as last time he would get 3/122.3m (38.8, 40.7, 42,8)

3/126 looks like:

40m
42m
44.1m

This, combined with the 6th and 39th pick will leave us with almost zero cap space (maybe the min). Boucher is almost assuredly gone and big man depth is terrible unless we draft a big.

[Pointgod]

Ingram and his team know that no one was willing to give him what he wants. There aren't many teams with cap space in the off season so the Raptors can play hard ball with him. They'll likely sign him to a 3 year 100M deal. That would be fair value for his production and the fact he's in his prime.

The other side needs to be considered too. Could the Raptors add a similarly talented player in free agency or through the draft? The chances of that are close to 0. They'll now be adding a top 10 pick, Ingram, and have an improved line up by shifting players to be in better positions. This means Barrett will be a SG again and Gradey will boost their bench.

Poeltl / Chomche / Maluach (2025 1st)
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Larrea (2025 2nd)

That's a much stronger roster than what they started this season with. They also have a lot of flexibility, they can breakdown Barrett's contract and add on a cheap contract like Battle, Walter, or Agbaji and get back 2 great role players.

So you believe Ingram is going to take a pay cut? lol I swear we have the most delusional fans on realgm.

Re-read... I didn't say pay cut anywhere. There's nothing delusional about paying market rate for an above average forward. If you haven't noticed its a buyers market.

Brandon Ingram is making 35 million this year. If he takes 100 over 3 years he’s taking less than he made this year which is a pay cut. For comparison sake he asked the Pelicans for 200 over 4 years which nets out to 50 a year. He’s not going to just drop his asking price by 100 million to do the Raptors a favor.
This is Ingram’s last big payday.

If the Raptors lowball him he’ll walk to another team it’s that simple. You don’t trade for a guy on an expiring contract unless you’re also willing to spend to retain him which I think the Raptors will end up doing, but its going heavily to impact our cap.

[ontnut]

There's more than 1 way to skin a cat! We're the guys that zig when others zag. We can't out-tank teams and we're not a FA destination. Trading the luckbox of mid-late FRPs for a guy who has recently been an all-star and still in his prime, is the kind of team we are. We complained and complained for years about being a treadmill team, but with good trades, including trading 1st round picks, we built our franchise. Lowry, Ibaka and then eventually, Kawhi, Green, and Gasol were all acquired by trading our 1sts. Powell was a trade, FVV was FA. The only guys we actually drafted and kept for the championship run were Siakam and OG (who didn't play during the run).

Yes, the Poeltl pick turned out to be higher than expected, that's unfortunate. But the other 2 1st rounders we traded, one was the 29th pick, and the other is likely around the 20th pick. I get the desire to have a mountain of picks to trade or draft, but that's just not the way we operate. We have ammunition, and we shoot our shot judiciously. We don't stockpile gunpowder and try to build a cannon.

Can you name a team that was built by selling FRPs during 20ish win seasons? Which ended up become a contender?

Why don't you put names and draft slots and be more specific when you say 1st round picks and then see how your judgement holds up. Zach Edey or Rob Dillingham or McCain are the best players available with the 9th pick in the 2924 draft, expectations is another non lottery 2026 1st round pick. Hardly game changers, all good or even great prospects to have sure, game changers)losing sleep over, especially with what we got in return, I certainly wouldn't hold on to "oh no we traded a 1st"

This is a nuance that is overlooked by a lot of the "omg stop trading 1sts in a rebuilding year" crowd. We didn't lose out on some superstar because we traded those picks. We didn't even really miss out on a player better than we got back.

The question is would you trade Agbaji now for a 29th overall pick, or for Collier or anyone drafted thereafter? I wouldn't. Poeltl vs. Edey, ok I get it, the pick turnd out to be way higher than we expected. L for Masai on that one. But other than Edey, I'd rather have Poeltl than Dillingham...and McCain was a 16th pick and tbh, not sure he's THAT good - I think he's getting the "good player on bad team" bump this year cuz of the mess in PHI and could have that Podz-type regression next season.

When 2026 rolls around, even with the injury woes, I think we'd rather have BI than the ~20th pick in that draft.

[Thaddy]

So you believe Ingram is going to take a pay cut? lol I swear we have the most delusional fans on realgm.

Re-read... I didn't say pay cut anywhere. There's nothing delusional about paying market rate for an above average forward. If you haven't noticed its a buyers market.

Brandon Ingram is making 35 million this year. If he takes 100 over 3 years he’s taking less than he made this year which is a pay cut. For comparison sake he asked the Pelicans for 200 over 4 years which nets out to 50 a year. He’s not going to just drop his asking price by 100 million to do the Raptors a favor.
This is Ingram’s last big payday.

If the Raptors lowball him he’ll walk to another team it’s that simple. You don’t trade for a guy on an expiring contract unless you’re also willing to spend to retain him which I think the Raptors will end up doing, but its going heavily to impact our cap.

No one is able to offer him that much or wants to. Do you know how much GTJ wanted? Lol, guess what he got.

[ontnut]

They are going to extend BI soon, he's extension eligible and wants to be here. They will likely play hard ball with him since no one wants him at the price he expects.

Ingram is a better scorer than Siakam and we desperately need half court creation, he's going to address that issue. Borderline all stars are where you have to gamble as a small market non-destination team. Ingram is just entering his prime and when he's not injured he's all star level. Barnes and Ingram is comparable to Bachero and Wagner among other forward star combos.

Bobby has already came out and stated this season is still for development and rebuilding. We're going to give even more minutes to Mogbo, Battle, Dick, Walter, and Shead. I can see Chomche getting minutes as well. We won't be playing Ingram, Quickely, and our other staple starters heavily until next season. We will be slotted in the 4-6 position when the lottery happens.

The Raptors are probably going to draft 1 of the top 3 or Maluach. After that happens we will have every hole in our line up plugged and ready to go for next season.

If we're a top 6 team that will translate to our assets having higher value. I would guess at that point we will be in the running for any stars that become available and gradually become contenders. By the time Barnes contract is over we will have multiple deep playoff runs.

I like the optimism of your prediction. But at the same time, its only a prediction and it could go the other way around: we miss the playoffs at the last play-in game and pick at 12, missing the generational talent that has been picked at 10. BI gets a big bag elsewhere (like FVV) and we are left with less assets.
It was a bold move trying to consolidate assets and position us better, but it has its risks, that's why at the present stage its a C. I hope for the best outcome (your post ^^) and that in hindsight I can say it was a great trade.

You do realize that for us to pick at 12 we'd have to finished the season 23-9, which is effectively the pace of the 3rd best team in the league? And that we have to do this without Ingram (who knows when he's back) and 2 of our key bench guys (Brown and Mitchell).

He's literally worrying about the smallest probability negative outcome. We have to finish 10th in the East, which means making up 6 games on the Bulls, then lose the play in, then lose the lottery outright. If you calculate the odds of that happening, it's less than a 1% outcome. Right now, here are our lottery odds:
0.6% chance at picking 9th. 0.6%.
8.7% picking 8th.
26.7% picking 7th
19.6% picking 6th
2.2% picking 5th
10.5% picking 4th
10.6% picking 3rd
10.5% picking 2nd
10.5% picking 1st

We have a 42.1% chance at moving into the top 4, and a 0.6% chance of losing the lottery outright. But here we are, putting a lot of worry equity into the worst case 0.6% scenario. Nevermind that when you add in the odds of us actually gaining 6 games to get into the play-in, which Vegas currently has at 10:1 odds, a 10% chance, now the worst case scenario is actually a 0.06% chance or 1 in 1666. Is that really something to consider?

Right now, here are the BULLS lottery odds (what our odds would be if we finished 10th and lost the play-in):
>0.0% 12th
0.4% 11th
6.8% 10th
32.1% 9th
34.5% 8th
7.2% 4th
6.7% 3rd
6.3% 2nd
6.0% 1st
So that's 26.2% that they move into the top 4 versus at best a 0.04% chance they pick 12th. Which makes it a 1 in 25,000 chance that ends up being us. LMFAO. Bro's really worried about something with those odds actually happening.

As it stands now, our mathematical average pick when you consider the lotto odds is #5. The only way we pick #5 is by tiebreak, otherwise we are most likely to pick 7th, which is a 26.7% chance, less than moving into the top 4. Think positive! And if you can't do that, then at least think mathematically!

[ConSarnit]

Re-read... I didn't say pay cut anywhere. There's nothing delusional about paying market rate for an above average forward. If you haven't noticed its a buyers market.

Brandon Ingram is making 35 million this year. If he takes 100 over 3 years he’s taking less than he made this year which is a pay cut. For comparison sake he asked the Pelicans for 200 over 4 years which nets out to 50 a year. He’s not going to just drop his asking price by 100 million to do the Raptors a favor.
This is Ingram’s last big payday.

If the Raptors lowball him he’ll walk to another team it’s that simple. You don’t trade for a guy on an expiring contract unless you’re also willing to spend to retain him which I think the Raptors will end up doing, but its going heavily to impact our cap.

No one is able to offer him that much or wants to. Do you know how much GTJ wanted? Lol, guess what he got.

The problem is when these guys don't get close to what they want they leave the incumbent team. Ingram is not taking 3/100. That is basically what IQ got and he's far less proven than Ingram.

If we try to hold fast on 3/100 Ingram will probably walk, take some 1+1 at 24m a year and get back on the market in 2026 when more teams have cap space. Think about your 3/100 offer. It's basically:

2025: 31.8m
2026: 33.4m
2027: 35m

To match that $100m all Ingram would have to do is take $24m in a 1+1, get back on the market in in 2026 and then get a contract at sub 24% of the cap (less than his current contract).

2025: 24m
2026: 37.2m (24% of the cap)
2027: 39.1m

Guys take that risk all of the time. Plenty of teams would move salary around to give Ingram $24m next year. If Ingram thinks he can even get a slight raise in 2026 (relative to the cap) he could go as low as $18m and still come out at $100m over 3 years. If he thinks a healthy season can get him back closer to 30% of the cap then he comes out way ahead taking a 1+1.

There is a major risk in lowballing Ingram. In their prime players who are "all-stars" don't take paycuts. I don't think we should overpay him but Ingram is going to see 3/100 as a lowball offer. He's starting at $35m/yr easily. Honestly it's probably closer to $40m.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

I gave it a C as well based on the following:

Downside:
- My personal preference was the patient approach to building, ie draft high this year, marginal improvements next year, draft a little lower - the Orlando Magic approach more or less.
- Kind of feels like buying a Porsche because the price was good but we are still renting our apartment and want to save up to buy a home.
- Injury concerns + lack of availability. We saw how Zach Lavine's contract aged, at one point being viewed as the worst contract in the NBA next to Beals. Luckily he had a bounce back year and they were able to get off it without selling the farm. BI is looking for a contract, what's that number? What are the years? Can he stay healthy enough that it doesn't become a massive negative contract?
- BI hasn't really been apart of winning teams. This could be health, roster construct, and so on. However, does he have a real impact winning?

Upside:
- the price point for a healthy fully realized version of Ingram would have been wayyyy higher than this. We honestly got him for a great price.
- If healthy, he is the perfect fit for this team in terms of skillset and position. SB can truly act as a hub on offence and I'd expect an uptick in his scoring now that he's not the #1 option.


I think this trade has potential to be amazing if everything breaks in the right direction for sure. If we can continue "tanking" this year and land a top pick that's huge. Come back next year with a solid starting lineup, and solid young bench (young guns 2.0).

There's a path that this team becomes really fun to watch in the next year or so. My concern has always been shortsighted moves by this FO.

The only way to succeed thru building thru the draft is to keep sucking until you land a superstar. you could draft luka or you could draft cade. its a huge gamble.
contract is the big sticking point. a 40M is only workable is its a short term contract.
BI isn't good enough to be a true first option on offense. but just like rj has benefitted playing alongside scottie, so can BI with the improved spacing and less defensive attention.

[Van_Trump]

This gives BI a 200M Contract (40M AAV)

Wow, this really highlights the value of Shead, Walter and the rest of our rookie contract players.

Makes this trade a potential overpay.

Also shows the value of late pick, or unpicked seniors (FVV, Norman Powell, Battle) who are more ready to play than the typical lottery pick freshmen out of college.

[aj174]

I wanted to give a B+ for a few reasons:
Bruce brown and olynyk weren't part of our team moving forward anyway

The 1st rounder next year is the only real price we paid, and that's the pacers top 4 protected pick we got from the siakam trade

It looks like he wants to be here, talent is there for sure. Question is his health and the contract moving forward.

Solid B+

[Gavin_TDThree]

I gave it a C as well based on the following:

Downside:
- My personal preference was the patient approach to building, ie draft high this year, marginal improvements next year, draft a little lower - the Orlando Magic approach more or less.
- Kind of feels like buying a Porsche because the price was good but we are still renting our apartment and want to save up to buy a home.
- Injury concerns + lack of availability. We saw how Zach Lavine's contract aged, at one point being viewed as the worst contract in the NBA next to Beals. Luckily he had a bounce back year and they were able to get off it without selling the farm. BI is looking for a contract, what's that number? What are the years? Can he stay healthy enough that it doesn't become a massive negative contract?
- BI hasn't really been apart of winning teams. This could be health, roster construct, and so on. However, does he have a real impact winning?

Upside:
- the price point for a healthy fully realized version of Ingram would have been wayyyy higher than this. We honestly got him for a great price.
- If healthy, he is the perfect fit for this team in terms of skillset and position. SB can truly act as a hub on offence and I'd expect an uptick in his scoring now that he's not the #1 option.


I think this trade has potential to be amazing if everything breaks in the right direction for sure. If we can continue "tanking" this year and land a top pick that's huge. Come back next year with a solid starting lineup, and solid young bench (young guns 2.0).

There's a path that this team becomes really fun to watch in the next year or so. My concern has always been shortsighted moves by this FO.

The only way to succeed thru building thru the draft is to keep sucking until you land a superstar. you could draft luka or you could draft cade. its a huge gamble.
contract is the big sticking point. a 40M is only workable is its a short term contract.
BI isn't good enough to be a true first option on offense. but just like rj has benefitted playing alongside scottie, so can BI with the improved spacing and less defensive attention.

Landing a superstar is definitely the fastest way to rebuild. I still think you can build over time by making good drafts picks and building along the margins. Similar to what the raps did in the Demar/Kyle Lowry.

I think RJ can elevate BI's game on the offensive end. Plus BI is already our best half court scorer. It's going to be interesting thats for sure