Official Brandon Ingram Thread

[WuTang_OG]

75% percentile volume pick and roll initiator for BI as per Blake

He can run them which is nice. Has the height and length to tower over plays to pass or score it

[LoveMyRaps]

Read on Twitter

Original injury.

That's like a Flagrant 3.

Did the elbow even connect? If not, Dort should've been suspended.

[StopitLeo]

They didn’t have a Physical Therapist on staff until last season! I trust the Raptor’s medical staff to get him in the best shape possible for next season.

Say what now? That can’t be true. An NBA team didn’t have a PT before last season?! Amateur hour.

That's wild. I know you can easily contract an outside provider, but to not have at least one in-house physiotherapist when you're committing hundreds of millions to player contracts is some terrible risk management.

A quote from their GM:

“We didn’t have a (physical therapist) before, Langdon said. I think that was one thing that a lot of the players questioned at the end of the year, especially with the amount of injuries that we had.”Source

[WuTang_OG]

"currently discussion extension with brandon long term" - webster

[ArthurVandelay]

All right. I'm gonna try something. I've been fairly pessimistic about the Raptors and our players and everything like that. Mostly got it right with Scottie. Was both right and wrong with RJ; we did the things that I wanted at the start of the season and they've started to work while I was being impatient and bitching about his efficiency earlier on (even as I said we need to wait, lol). Been fairly pessimistic about Ingram to start.

But screw it. Let's try the optimism route. He's got all the scoring skills we want from Scottie: mid-range game, 3pt shot, drawing fouls. He's been injured as hell, not getting to the rim, but he was getting there earlier in his career. So maybe we can open it up, get him some passing support, some better lanes to the rim and he can have a little renaissance with us. That'd be nice. Starting next year, ideally, heh, but either way.

Here's hoping he can find a nice little stretch of health and quality play with us.

I think the Raptors medical and training staff are going to place significant emphasis on preparing his body. He doesn't need to add size/muscle, but he absolutely needs to work on his strength to take the abuse of an 82 game season and playoffs. If they can get him playing 70 games plus playoffs, that is a huge win.

[tsherkin]

Say what now? That can’t be true. An NBA team didn’t have a PT before last season?! Amateur hour.

That's wild. I know you can easily contract an outside provider, but to not have at least one in-house physiotherapist when you're committing hundreds of millions to player contracts is some terrible risk management.

A quote from their GM:

“We didn’t have a (physical therapist) before, Langdon said. I think that was one thing that a lot of the players questioned at the end of the year, especially with the amount of injuries that we had.”Source

You appear to have borked that quote, because I definitely didn't say anything about that.

[MiamiSPX]

Say what now? That can’t be true. An NBA team didn’t have a PT before last season?! Amateur hour.

That's wild. I know you can easily contract an outside provider, but to not have at least one in-house physiotherapist when you're committing hundreds of millions to player contracts is some terrible risk management.

A quote from their GM:

“We didn’t have a (physical therapist) before, Langdon said. I think that was one thing that a lot of the players questioned at the end of the year, especially with the amount of injuries that we had.”Source

Their owner cheaps out on the Pels all the time, which infuriates their fans. She has no problem spending on the Saints and is very philanthropic in Louisiana. It's the weirdest thing.

[StopitLeo]

Say what now? That can’t be true. An NBA team didn’t have a PT before last season?! Amateur hour.

That's wild. I know you can easily contract an outside provider, but to not have at least one in-house physiotherapist when you're committing hundreds of millions to player contracts is some terrible risk management.

A quote from their GM:

“We didn’t have a (physical therapist) before, Langdon said. I think that was one thing that a lot of the players questioned at the end of the year, especially with the amount of injuries that we had.”Source

You appear to have borked that quote, because I definitely didn't say anything about that.

Sorry. Editing posts on a phone is hard.

[ArthurVandelay]

The writing is on the wall, I'll be shocked if we don't have the 5th or 6th worst record. Which considering the teams below us, is really always been the realistic place we'd be.

Keep in mind that of the 31 remaining games, 24 of them are against teams which are .500 or worse. 9 of them are against teams with less than 20 wins. We have a pretty good chance against most of the teams we have left, which concerns me.

We have 16 wins ourselves. If we go 12-19 and end with 28 wins, will we be bottom 6?

I don't think people remember the lengths they went to tank in Tampa...even last year. Granted last year was a combination of injury and tragedy, but they know how to fix the lineups.

Also, Darko has shown an incredible ability to gameplan to lose. PG/3 point chucking Scottie is not winning much.

I feel confident there will be a coordinated effort to lose...even to the Utah's, Brooklyn's, Charlotte's and Washington's.

[tsherkin]

I think the Raptors medical and training staff are going to place significant emphasis on preparing his body. He doesn't need to add size/muscle, but he absolutely needs to work on his strength to take the abuse of an 82 game season and playoffs. If they can get him playing 70 games plus playoffs, that is a huge win.

I think that isn't really the issue with him.

Hyperextended L knee. Concussion. L ankle sprain. DVT in his L arm. Hyperextended R knee. R ankle sprain. Toe injury, L ankle sprain. R hip contusion. Minor L Achilles issue. L ankle sprain. R hamstring injury. Concussion. Sprained R toe (missed 28 games with that). R ankle sprain. R knee soreness. Achilles soreness. Hyperextended L knee, bone contusion. Calf soreness. L ankle sprain.

Most of his issues have been ankle/knee, and then he's got some Achilles and hamstring stuff which has sprinkled in here and there. Couple of concussions.

He's got joint-related issues now. They'll have to be managed. We'll see what our guys can do, I guess. I'm gonna call anything north of 60 GP a victory for us, and if he can do that in consecutive seasons, that'll be the first time in quite a while and will be also a victory.

[tsherkin]

Sorry. Editing posts on a phone is hard.

Yes it is.

I don't think people remember the lengths they went to tank in Tampa...even last year. Granted last year was a combination of injury and tragedy, but they know how to fix the lineups.

Also, Darko has shown an incredible ability to gameplan to lose. PG/3 point chucking Scottie is not winning much.

I feel confident there will be a coordinated effort to lose...even to the Utah's, Brooklyn's, Charlotte's and Washington's.

We shall see, I guess. Our odds aren't terribly different from the top if we drop to 5th or so, but much past that and we're in some trouble. That, of course, only addresses odds of the first overall. We're going to need some luck here.

[Scase]

...Huh?

So you're saying, if he doesn't play a single minute (meaning we gave up winning vets to hopefully tank more this year for a guy who won't play), it impacts the grade for this trade?

Now we're just reaching.

Yes, I am very clearly saying that depending on the outcome of the remainder of the season, it would impact the grade of the trade. If BI came back, and we won like 15-18 of our remaining 31 games because they are all dumpster level teams, and we ended up getting the 11th pick, that would absolutely make this trade a disaster.

Same way if he didn't play a single minute and didn't impact our draft chances, it would be better than the above. How is that confusing?

To be fair, if he doesn't play another minute, we're probably going to end up with a top-5 pick. We have moved a bunch of our defensive pieces and bench depth, which is a large part of how we were beating bad teams (besides some remarkable shooting).

We'll have to see how it all plays out. We have what, 31 games remaining? We're still pretty bad, but our remaining schedule is pretty soft, which isn't awesome for draft slot jockeying. So we do have to manage our expectations.

Yes but, also no. We will likely be positioned for a top 5 pick, but whether or not we get one is a different story. BI trade with a top 5 pick, not bad. BI with the 7/8th pick and beyond, much worse. And that's my main concern, the trade to me is heavily dependent on our draft slot. If we can get a high end scorer, that means that even if BI flops, we still have a solid backup plan. If we get a guy who is another RJ/Scottie level player, then we are further behind than when we started, cause now we are just kicking the can down the road again.

We're 1 game out from 6th, and 4 games out from 7th, I am not celebrating a 50% chance at a 7/8 pick, or a 57% chance at an 8/9th pick. And with how soft our schedule is, it's a genuine concern.

I'm confused bc your initial post said, even if he doesn't play a single minute, you're hinging the grade of the trade on our draft pick... but if he doesn't play a minute we're objectively a worse team without Brown/Mitchell/Olynyk, so we would have had an even WORSE pick if we don't make the trade.

That's also assuming the literal only option was to trade those vets for BI and only BI. And conveniently ignores, A) not trading them at all and just sitting them, or B) trading them for SRPs and not having either BI or them on the roster.

Stop looking at it so myopically.

[Scase]

Yes but, also no. We will likely be positioned for a top 5 pick, but whether or not we get one is a different story.

Fair point. But I guess my point was, if BI isn't playing, then he isn't impacting our ability to win, so it isn't really a reflection on the trade.

I mean in the long term, if we botch the pick this year/get bad luck, without BI we still have ourselves positioned for another kick at the can for a high pick, whether or not people want to tank again, is a different story, but the option is there. With him on the team, we are competing next year no matter what. So our options become much more limited.

[Drakeem]

Yes, I am very clearly saying that depending on the outcome of the remainder of the season, it would impact the grade of the trade. If BI came back, and we won like 15-18 of our remaining 31 games because they are all dumpster level teams, and we ended up getting the 11th pick, that would absolutely make this trade a disaster.

Same way if he didn't play a single minute and didn't impact our draft chances, it would be better than the above. How is that confusing?



Yes but, also no. We will likely be positioned for a top 5 pick, but whether or not we get one is a different story. BI trade with a top 5 pick, not bad. BI with the 7/8th pick and beyond, much worse. And that's my main concern, the trade to me is heavily dependent on our draft slot. If we can get a high end scorer, that means that even if BI flops, we still have a solid backup plan. If we get a guy who is another RJ/Scottie level player, then we are further behind than when we started, cause now we are just kicking the can down the road again.

We're 1 game out from 6th, and 4 games out from 7th, I am not celebrating a 50% chance at a 7/8 pick, or a 57% chance at an 8/9th pick. And with how soft our schedule is, it's a genuine concern.

I'm confused bc your initial post said, even if he doesn't play a single minute, you're hinging the grade of the trade on our draft pick... but if he doesn't play a minute we're objectively a worse team without Brown/Mitchell/Olynyk, so we would have had an even WORSE pick if we don't make the trade.

That's also assuming the literal only option was to trade those vets for BI and only BI. And conveniently ignores, A) not trading them at all and just sitting them, or B) trading them for SRPs and not having either BI or them on the roster.

Stop looking at it so myopically.

But you've narrowed your focus on specifically the value of the trade vs the value of the pick we get. Optimally, if we're trying to go for playing the odds on a high pick, the vets needed to go. Anything other than shipping them out would have decreased the chances of us getting a higher pick, and sitting them out would have led to bad asset management with Bruce Brown being able to leave this off season.

Trading for BI or someone else is moot at this point. Again, I'm only really having issues with the notion of the draft pick status having an impact on the trade grade if we're assuming BI doesn't impact our ability to tank (your words, not mine). Outside of trading Scottie and everyone else, we wouldn't get worse next year. It was always going to be a one year tank job unless you completely gut the team and go Washington Wizards status.

I can get not liking the direction of the front office, or not liking BI as a player and judging the trade accordingly, but that was just a really weird statement in an otherwise fine post.

[God Squad]

Another benefit from adding Ingram is that this should move Scottie to his optimal position - Power Forward. I saw enough last year with Scottie as a switchable PF who can play free safety on defense. He was using his IQ to pass and QB from the post, then using his length and timing to disrupt paint touches.

IMHO he's best in this role.

[tsherkin]

I mean in the long term, if we botch the pick this year/get bad luck, without BI we still have ourselves positioned for another kick at the can for a high pick, whether or not people want to tank again, is a different story, but the option is there. With him on the team, we are competing next year no matter one. So our options become much more limited.

Yeah, I suppose. But like I said to Duff, I don't really think that it's reasonable, nor desirable, to tank in perpetuity. At some point, you can't keep looking to a top-3 pick as your salvation and need to start climbing back into the game. Otherwise, you turn yourself into a joke like the Wizards or the Hornets. Or like the Knicks for most of 02-20. And that's really not a great way to maintain a fanbase.

[tsherkin]

Another benefit from adding Ingram is that this should move Scottie to his optimal position - Power Forward. I saw enough last year with Scottie as a switchable PF who can play free safety on defense. He was using his IQ to pass and QB from the post, then using his length and timing to disrupt paint touches.

IMHO he's best in this role.

Yes, this is an interesting element of it, for sure.

[Dalek]

I think the Raptors medical and training staff are going to place significant emphasis on preparing his body. He doesn't need to add size/muscle, but he absolutely needs to work on his strength to take the abuse of an 82 game season and playoffs. If they can get him playing 70 games plus playoffs, that is a huge win.

I think that isn't really the issue with him.

Hyperextended L knee. Concussion. L ankle sprain. DVT in his L arm. Hyperextended R knee. R ankle sprain. Toe injury, L ankle sprain. R hip contusion. Minor L Achilles issue. L ankle sprain. R hamstring injury. Concussion. Sprained R toe (missed 28 games with that). R ankle sprain. R knee soreness. Achilles soreness. Hyperextended L knee, bone contusion. Calf soreness. L ankle sprain.

Most of his issues have been ankle/knee, and then he's got some Achilles and hamstring stuff which has sprinkled in here and there. Couple of concussions.

He's got joint-related issues now. They'll have to be managed. We'll see what our guys can do, I guess. I'm gonna call anything north of 60 GP a victory for us, and if he can do that in consecutive seasons, that'll be the first time in quite a while and will be also a victory.

I mean star players rarely play full seasons or over 70 games these days and he is in season 9. We have to bake in some time for Ingram to be out which is why we need to have quality depth to absorb losing his 22 PPG.

The ankle issue is a concern to me. He does seem like he has been out longer than what was expected. Hopefully this isn't a Bruce Brown wait and see and then do surgery right before camp.

[ArthurVandelay]

Sorry. Editing posts on a phone is hard.

Yes it is.

I don't think people remember the lengths they went to tank in Tampa...even last year. Granted last year was a combination of injury and tragedy, but they know how to fix the lineups.

Also, Darko has shown an incredible ability to gameplan to lose. PG/3 point chucking Scottie is not winning much.

I feel confident there will be a coordinated effort to lose...even to the Utah's, Brooklyn's, Charlotte's and Washington's.

We shall see, I guess. Our odds aren't terribly different from the top if we drop to 5th or so, but much past that and we're in some trouble. That, of course, only addresses odds of the first overall. We're going to need some luck here.

Luck? oh yeah for sure.

The only thing a worse record ensures is a higher floor.

[tsherkin]

Luck? oh yeah for sure.

The only thing a worse record ensures is a higher floor.

Yes, I agree. But we're at the point where we need to be stacking advantages right now and playing for best odds.

I mean star players rarely play full seasons or over 70 games these days and he is in season 9.

Loads of stars play over 70 games. 82, sure, that's a thing of the past, but I don't think anyone is expecting that.

The ankle issue is a concern to me. He does seem like he has been out longer than what was expected. Hopefully this isn't a Bruce Brown wait and see and then do surgery right before camp.

Probably part of the Pels tank, and maybe part of ours as well, optimistically.