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A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth)

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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#61 » by wegotthabeet » Fri Feb 7, 2025 3:10 pm

DG88 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
DG88 wrote:Yes we need depth, something that many have been saying this whole season. We don't have any and whether that's through trade or adding talent through the draft it has to be a priority this offseason.


Do we? I don’t think this team lacks depth except maybe at the 5.

Dick
Agbaji
Walter
Mogbo
Shead
Battle
Chomche
2025 1st
2025 2nd

That’s already 9 rookie deals. The Raptors are still accumulating assets and depth, but aren’t far off from consolidating and looking to upgrade talent. Depends on how these players above pan out.

This thread was posted 2 years ago. We didn't have the depth that we have now lol.


Sorry hahaha. Why do people bump old threads like this?
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#62 » by ArthurVandelay » Fri Feb 7, 2025 3:25 pm

wegotthabeet wrote:
DG88 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
Do we? I don’t think this team lacks depth except maybe at the 5.

Dick
Agbaji
Walter
Mogbo
Shead
Battle
Chomche
2025 1st
2025 2nd

That’s already 9 rookie deals. The Raptors are still accumulating assets and depth, but aren’t far off from consolidating and looking to upgrade talent. Depends on how these players above pan out.

This thread was posted 2 years ago. We didn't have the depth that we have now lol.


Sorry hahaha. Why do people bump old threads like this?


To see the progression.

Team has come a long way in a relatively short period of time imo
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#63 » by ArthurVandelay » Fri Feb 7, 2025 3:41 pm

Scase wrote:
sidsid wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
I guess a “serious run of great moves” is relative.

Masai made 6 trades over 6 years that built the championship team. There were other cap tweaking/fixing trades along the way that were pretty insignificant, the Tucker trade that was a swing and a miss before Kawhi, and the Carroll dump.

In terms of drafting for a championship, he had no picks in 2013, botched 2014, hit 2015 and 2016, and had no picks in 2017 and 2018.

His key to building towards success was not having bad contracts or wasted roster spots.


What's getting clearer for me now is that Masai needs to come into a situation with an existing asset base in either quantity or quality.

I wouldn't go with the "BC built the champs" but he left the Raps with a positive asset base with enough depth already for Masai to start his process... He's a "spend money to make money" type of guy.

Which involves draining assets to build upwards. The problem here is he has no patience. The post Giannis offseason left the cupboard bare. And you can't spend money to make money when you have none left. Now you're working on loan debt and the juice is running. Can't get ahead.

I joke that we should hire an Ainge guy for the deadline and hand the team back over to Masai after. But if we could have told Masai to take a sabbatical for 3 years (do giants of Africa) and Hinkie for 3 years we'd be in great shape now.

This is how I've seen it, and have been saying for a while. Masai is a guy you hire to take an ok situation with assets and make some good moves. But not a guy you want to rebuild, he clearly doesn't believe in the concept and likes to re-tool and thats fine, but it's not great when you are already from a position of weakness. Different tools for different jobs and all that.


Masai definitely not down for a long multi-year sell off everything, rebuild through multiple lottery picks.

But I'm finding it hard to fault him for anything post Poeltl trade. He has torn down and rebuilt this roster, brought in young starters, found 3 NBA players in a weak draft plus Chomche, and hopefully will add a top lotto pick.

I'm excited about next year.
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#64 » by Psubs » Fri Feb 7, 2025 3:49 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
DG88 wrote:This thread was posted 2 years ago. We didn't have the depth that we have now lol.


Sorry hahaha. Why do people bump old threads like this?


To see the progression.

Team has come a long way in a relatively short period of time imo


Yup, hitting on 3 draft picks plus 1 long-term project and 1 udfa, you have good bench depth now.

If the Raptors get lucky like Atlanta and get into the top 2, might look into trading Dick, Poeltl and RJ for Embiid. Any other C upgrade available?
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#65 » by ArthurVandelay » Fri Feb 7, 2025 3:57 pm

Psubs wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
Sorry hahaha. Why do people bump old threads like this?


To see the progression.

Team has come a long way in a relatively short period of time imo


Yup, hitting on 3 draft picks plus 1 long-term project and 1 udfa, you have good bench depth now.

If the Raptors get lucky like Atlanta and get into the top 2, might look into trading Dick, Poeltl and RJ for Embiid. Any other C upgrade available?


I'm not opposed to trading for a star. I am opposed to Embiid though. His combination of selfishness, immaturity/childishness, poor attitude, and health are a large nah from me.
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#66 » by Scase » Fri Feb 7, 2025 4:02 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
Scase wrote:
sidsid wrote:
What's getting clearer for me now is that Masai needs to come into a situation with an existing asset base in either quantity or quality.

I wouldn't go with the "BC built the champs" but he left the Raps with a positive asset base with enough depth already for Masai to start his process... He's a "spend money to make money" type of guy.

Which involves draining assets to build upwards. The problem here is he has no patience. The post Giannis offseason left the cupboard bare. And you can't spend money to make money when you have none left. Now you're working on loan debt and the juice is running. Can't get ahead.

I joke that we should hire an Ainge guy for the deadline and hand the team back over to Masai after. But if we could have told Masai to take a sabbatical for 3 years (do giants of Africa) and Hinkie for 3 years we'd be in great shape now.

This is how I've seen it, and have been saying for a while. Masai is a guy you hire to take an ok situation with assets and make some good moves. But not a guy you want to rebuild, he clearly doesn't believe in the concept and likes to re-tool and thats fine, but it's not great when you are already from a position of weakness. Different tools for different jobs and all that.


Masai definitely not down for a long multi-year sell off everything, rebuild through multiple lottery picks.

But I'm finding it hard to fault him for anything post Poeltl trade. He has torn down and rebuilt this roster, brought in young starters, found 3 NBA players in a weak draft plus Chomche, and hopefully will add a top lotto pick.

I'm excited about next year.

Eh, it's easy to find a bunch of things wrong with his moves if you don't believe that re-tooling is the answer. I can respect different opinions on that, but it's not a one size fits all kinda situation. And that's why I think he's the wrong exec for the job, the team has some pretty glaring talent issues, and that's not going to get fixed without a high draft pick. It's the same reason that even when you see all the people that are happy with the BI trade, they all say the same thing.

"And if we can get a top 5 pick in this draft, we'll be in great shape." Even though they refuse to admit it, the future success of the team hinges way more on that pick, than RJ, IQ, BI, or even Scottie. So whether or not you approve/disapprove of Masai's approach, almost everyone knows that a high draft pick is the most important thing to this "rebuild".

A simple question to ask/answer is this. If we had no draft pick this year, would you still be happy with the trade, and have a rosy outlook on the future? I think most would say no, and most people with a realistic approach would say the same if we ended up with the 10th pick, historically, that's not a game changer of a pick. And I don't think most people who have a good grasp of team fit, and salary caps would think that our current SL is particularly high ceiling.
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#67 » by ArthurVandelay » Fri Feb 7, 2025 4:15 pm

Scase wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
Scase wrote:This is how I've seen it, and have been saying for a while. Masai is a guy you hire to take an ok situation with assets and make some good moves. But not a guy you want to rebuild, he clearly doesn't believe in the concept and likes to re-tool and thats fine, but it's not great when you are already from a position of weakness. Different tools for different jobs and all that.


Masai definitely not down for a long multi-year sell off everything, rebuild through multiple lottery picks.

But I'm finding it hard to fault him for anything post Poeltl trade. He has torn down and rebuilt this roster, brought in young starters, found 3 NBA players in a weak draft plus Chomche, and hopefully will add a top lotto pick.

I'm excited about next year.

Eh, it's easy to find a bunch of things wrong with his moves if you don't believe that re-tooling is the answer. I can respect different opinions on that, but it's not a one size fits all kinda situation. And that's why I think he's the wrong exec for the job, the team has some pretty glaring talent issues, and that's not going to get fixed without a high draft pick. It's the same reason that even when you see all the people that are happy with the BI trade, they all say the same thing.

"And if we can get a top 5 pick in this draft, we'll be in great shape." Even though they refuse to admit it, the future success of the team hinges way more on that pick, than RJ, IQ, BI, or even Scottie. So whether or not you approve/disapprove of Masai's approach, almost everyone knows that a high draft pick is the most important thing to this "rebuild".

A simple question to ask/answer is this. If we had no draft pick this year, would you still be happy with the trade, and have a rosy outlook on the future? I think most would say no, and most people with a realistic approach would say the same if we ended up with the 10th pick, historically, that's not a game changer of a pick. And I don't think most people who have a good grasp of team fit, and salary caps would think that our current SL is particularly high ceiling.


If there was no draft pick this year, Masai and Bobby should be fired. But they do have a draft pick and right now it is 5th.

I think the Bobby press conference made clear what the intention is from here on out: it's all about the draft. I get the impression you believe their goal is to get BI back asap and win as much as possible. I don't believe that at all, but if they do continue to win from here on out, yeah, I'll be pretty frustrated too.

They absolutely need to hit on this draft pick. They absolutely need another talent equal to at minimum or better than Scottie.
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#68 » by Scase » Fri Feb 7, 2025 4:52 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
Scase wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
Masai definitely not down for a long multi-year sell off everything, rebuild through multiple lottery picks.

But I'm finding it hard to fault him for anything post Poeltl trade. He has torn down and rebuilt this roster, brought in young starters, found 3 NBA players in a weak draft plus Chomche, and hopefully will add a top lotto pick.

I'm excited about next year.

Eh, it's easy to find a bunch of things wrong with his moves if you don't believe that re-tooling is the answer. I can respect different opinions on that, but it's not a one size fits all kinda situation. And that's why I think he's the wrong exec for the job, the team has some pretty glaring talent issues, and that's not going to get fixed without a high draft pick. It's the same reason that even when you see all the people that are happy with the BI trade, they all say the same thing.

"And if we can get a top 5 pick in this draft, we'll be in great shape." Even though they refuse to admit it, the future success of the team hinges way more on that pick, than RJ, IQ, BI, or even Scottie. So whether or not you approve/disapprove of Masai's approach, almost everyone knows that a high draft pick is the most important thing to this "rebuild".

A simple question to ask/answer is this. If we had no draft pick this year, would you still be happy with the trade, and have a rosy outlook on the future? I think most would say no, and most people with a realistic approach would say the same if we ended up with the 10th pick, historically, that's not a game changer of a pick. And I don't think most people who have a good grasp of team fit, and salary caps would think that our current SL is particularly high ceiling.


If there was no draft pick this year, Masai and Bobby should be fired. But they do have a draft pick and right now it is 5th.

I think the Bobby press conference made clear what the intention is from here on out: it's all about the draft. I get the impression you believe their goal is to get BI back asap and win as much as possible. I don't believe that at all, but if they do continue to win from here on out, yeah, I'll be pretty frustrated too.

They absolutely need to hit on this draft pick. They absolutely need another talent equal to at minimum or better than Scottie.

Not quite, the pick right now is seventh, our position is 5th worst. Our highest odds of a pick is the 7th pick.

My impression is that he isn't likely to sit out the remaining 31 games, and they probably bring him back in the last 15-20 games post ASB to "get a look" at the team, and results in some more unwanted wins. Masai loves to evaluate, and rarely sits players who can/are willing to play for extended periods of time. Scottie came back early and played injured, RJ has barely missed any games, same with Jak, he just doesn't allow sitting of players for extended periods of time if they are in game shape. He didn't do it last year, and he didn't do it in Tampa.

Next year is a full push for the play in/playoff team, which is also not ideal IMO.
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#69 » by youngRAPZ » Fri Feb 7, 2025 4:55 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
Scase wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
Masai definitely not down for a long multi-year sell off everything, rebuild through multiple lottery picks.

But I'm finding it hard to fault him for anything post Poeltl trade. He has torn down and rebuilt this roster, brought in young starters, found 3 NBA players in a weak draft plus Chomche, and hopefully will add a top lotto pick.

I'm excited about next year.

Eh, it's easy to find a bunch of things wrong with his moves if you don't believe that re-tooling is the answer. I can respect different opinions on that, but it's not a one size fits all kinda situation. And that's why I think he's the wrong exec for the job, the team has some pretty glaring talent issues, and that's not going to get fixed without a high draft pick. It's the same reason that even when you see all the people that are happy with the BI trade, they all say the same thing.

"And if we can get a top 5 pick in this draft, we'll be in great shape." Even though they refuse to admit it, the future success of the team hinges way more on that pick, than RJ, IQ, BI, or even Scottie. So whether or not you approve/disapprove of Masai's approach, almost everyone knows that a high draft pick is the most important thing to this "rebuild".

A simple question to ask/answer is this. If we had no draft pick this year, would you still be happy with the trade, and have a rosy outlook on the future? I think most would say no, and most people with a realistic approach would say the same if we ended up with the 10th pick, historically, that's not a game changer of a pick. And I don't think most people who have a good grasp of team fit, and salary caps would think that our current SL is particularly high ceiling.


If there was no draft pick this year, Masai and Bobby should be fired. But they do have a draft pick and right now it is 5th.

I think the Bobby press conference made clear what the intention is from here on out: it's all about the draft. I get the impression you believe their goal is to get BI back asap and win as much as possible. I don't believe that at all, but if they do continue to win from here on out, yeah, I'll be pretty frustrated too.

They absolutely need to hit on this draft pick. They absolutely need another talent equal to at minimum or better than Scottie.

I think it’s pretty obvious the front office is ok with drafting Maluach this year which is possible if they finish between 5-8 but if we jump up they’ll be happy to have the problem of fitting in of of…

Flagg
Harper
Bailey
Edgecombe
Jak

Those are the only guys I take over Maluach any ways!


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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#70 » by Jcity08 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 5:13 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
Psubs wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
To see the progression.

Team has come a long way in a relatively short period of time imo


Yup, hitting on 3 draft picks plus 1 long-term project and 1 udfa, you have good bench depth now.

If the Raptors get lucky like Atlanta and get into the top 2, might look into trading Dick, Poeltl and RJ for Embiid. Any other C upgrade available?


I'm not opposed to trading for a star. I am opposed to Embiid though. His combination of selfishness, immaturity/childishness, poor attitude, and health are a large nah from me.


Yeah seriously, **** Embiid.
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#71 » by Thaddy » Mon Feb 10, 2025 12:28 am

We're probably going to get Kasp, Johnson or Edgecombe. It'll give us a wing logjam we'll need to sort out.

I would guess the Raptors are in the running for the next available all star. If it's Trae Young I see us looking to steal him at a low price point. We have a lot of depth.

It's obvious we are okay with selling for a fair price and buying low. It's more about players refusing to come here than us not being interested. If we were on Fox's short list he could have been here.

Starter + prospect + pick
IQ + Agbaji + 2nd for Young?

Poeltl / Maluach
Barnes / Mogbo
Ingram / Walter
Barrett / Dick
Young / Shead
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Re: A look to the past likely shows a glimpse of the future (depth) 

Post#72 » by WaltFrazier » Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:23 am

DemHeavyHands wrote:Image

I read as far as Rudy Gay's name early on and figured ok that's where the team is at, Ingram is the new Rudy. Next step is to trade BI next year for 4 players and build from there.

Was I right to skip reading the rest? :D
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