2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Should have traded Durant for a haul of picks and a young player or two. His return is only going to get worse over time and with knowledge that he is unhappy after hearing his name involved in trade talks. The only player that has a say over his destiny is Beal, and you can't be mad at him as that was always the reality. The Durant experiment epically failed and the team has been worse after his acquisition and progressively so. Dark times in the Valley.

I wanted to blow this team up on draft night 2024. Was okay seeing things play out once we acquired Tyus Jones. Then I'm pretty sure I was the first to advocate blowing it up this season. Funny, I threw out Kuminga-Butler/Durant/Wiggins+ as an idea a day or so before it was revealed that was actually agreed to before Durant nixed it. Funny!

If we want a decent haul for Durant, our last best chance is draft night 2025. Draft picks are cheaper to acquire on draft night. If OKC or HOU decide to push all-in and with Booker or Durant (or one to each), that should be plan A. If SAS or MEM want in on the sweepstakes, add them to the list, along with any other win-now team willing to poney up the picks.

J-Dub is a daydream.Chet isn't a crazy target, but there's a reason for that. Dude's frail. Good players who have reached their potential are wasted on a rebuilding team, so the goal should be to add picks and cap flexibility, which can help us add more picks.

I pray we blow this up on draft night.

[King4Day]

While I could be wrong, I expect a lot of teams to want Durant this summer despite his age and being an expiring. He'll pick teams he'd consider (Dallas I'm sure being one) and we'll make them bid against each other. I imagine he'll extend with that team too

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

In hindsight, it looks like trading our '31 was as much about money as anything else. Dealing Nurk for expirings will save us... what, $120 million? Surely we didn't want to send away the '31 just to ditch one year on Nurk's contract, so we split it up - not just the asset, but also the transaction. Separating the UTA/CHO deals over time makes it much less obvious that we were in fact, trading our '31 primarily to shed salaries. In support of this proposition, consider this. While we were ostensibly trying to pay less than the '31 outright with Beal for Butler, we might have known all along that Beal wasn't interested in waiving the NTC - in which case, there never was a Butler deal. Had we dealt Durant to GSW, I'm guessing we would have kept those picks and still pulled the trigger on Nurk-to-CHO trade. In which case, the only thing we would have ended up doing with those three picks would be, again, just getting out of Nurk's contract.

You can say it was about getting under the second apron more than just the money, but potatoes potahtoes. Why get under the second apron if we're blowing it up? To save money and rebuild.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If we want a decent haul for Durant, our last best chance is draft night 2025. Draft picks are cheaper to acquire on draft night. If OKC or HOU decide to push all-in and with Booker or Durant (or one to each), that should be plan A. If SAS or MEM want in on the sweepstakes, add them to the list, along with any other win-now team willing to poney up the picks.

J-Dub is a daydream.Chet isn't a crazy target, but there's a reason for that. Dude's frail. Good players who have reached their potential are wasted on a rebuilding team, so the goal should be to add picks and cap flexibility, which can help us add more picks.

I pray we blow this up on draft night.

I posted this before I saw the headline about Booker wanting to spend his career here - even after all of this. If the loyalty he's professed is this genuine, then ok. He deserves the be able to stay here if he wants. To me, that kind of relationship between a player and a franchise is incredibly valuable and worthy of the investment. You don't need to go 100% on a tank - 85% is just about as effective. These are ping pong balls we're talking about, after all.

All that is to clarify that if Phoenix is truly more important to Devin Booker than winning, then we should value him more than slightly better lotto odds. If he wants to cement himself as the Suns all-time scoring record for the next 50 years, then I for one will be proud to join him on that journey. Just give the man some runners and dunkers to make it fun!

GO SUNS

[bwgood77]

Should have traded Durant for a haul of picks and a young player or two. His return is only going to get worse over time and with knowledge that he is unhappy after hearing his name involved in trade talks. The only player that has a say over his destiny is Beal, and you can't be mad at him as that was always the reality. The Durant experiment epically failed and the team has been worse after his acquisition and progressively so. Dark times in the Valley.

I wanted to blow this team up on draft night 2024. Was okay seeing things play out once we acquired Tyus Jones. Then I'm pretty sure I was the first to advocate blowing it up this season. Funny, I threw out Kuminga-Butler/Durant/Wiggins+ as an idea a day or so before it was revealed that was actually agreed to before Durant nixed it. Funny!

If we want a decent haul for Durant, our last best chance is draft night 2025. Draft picks are cheaper to acquire on draft night. If OKC or HOU decide to push all-in and with Booker or Durant (or one to each), that should be plan A. If SAS or MEM want in on the sweepstakes, add them to the list, along with any other win-now team willing to poney up the picks.

J-Dub is a daydream.Chet isn't a crazy target, but there's a reason for that. Dude's frail. Good players who have reached their potential are wasted on a rebuilding team, so the goal should be to add picks and cap flexibility, which can help us add more picks.

I pray we blow this up on draft night.

I have talked to a few people and the feeling is KD's value isn't nearly as high as a lot of people might think, now that he is kind of upset, may want out, and only has one year on his contract (at 37 years old).

Thinking more on it, and hearing the Grizz called about him, they make perfect sense. At first I didn't think so because of JJJ...but his supermax kicks in 2026 and KD expires, so they would maybe do it for expirings.

However, I just realized they can't because they already traded Smart and dumped a first to get off his salary. The only way they could do it would have been like Smart, Kennard, Clarke, Konchar and a couple of firsts. They would have gotten KD for this year and next, and cleared out space for JJJ Supermax. Clarke and Konchar go into 2027, so they may still want to get off those guys, but I don't think they have enough salary now to trade out since they are not trading Bane, Ja or JJJ obviously.

[Fo-Real]

Chris Paul has to get bought out after they acquired De'Aaron Fox right?

[BobbieL]

If we want a decent haul for Durant, our last best chance is draft night 2025. Draft picks are cheaper to acquire on draft night. If OKC or HOU decide to push all-in and with Booker or Durant (or one to each), that should be plan A. If SAS or MEM want in on the sweepstakes, add them to the list, along with any other win-now team willing to poney up the picks.

J-Dub is a daydream.Chet isn't a crazy target, but there's a reason for that. Dude's frail. Good players who have reached their potential are wasted on a rebuilding team, so the goal should be to add picks and cap flexibility, which can help us add more picks.

I pray we blow this up on draft night.

I posted this before I saw the headline about Booker wanting to spend his career here - even after all of this. If the loyalty he's professed is this genuine, then ok. He deserves the be able to stay here if he wants. To me, that kind of relationship between a player and a franchise is incredibly valuable and worthy of the investment. You don't need to go 100% on a tank - 85% is just about as effective. These are ping pong balls we're talking about, after all.

All that is to clarify that if Phoenix is truly more important to Devin Booker than winning, then we should value him more than slightly better lotto odds. If he wants to cement himself as the Suns all-time scoring record for the next 50 years, then I for one will be proud to join him on that journey. Just give the man some runners and dunkers to make it fun!

GO SUNS

I just don't get the sentimental stuff. I get how good of a player he is but the goal is to win a title. Trading Devin Booker this summer helps them achieve that goal more than keeping him on the roster for PR reasons. Durant doesn't have the value he had when the Suns overpaid for him. If the Suns get a "Cam Johnson" type player, two FRPs and cap filler, they will be lucky - which by the way, should have been the trade the last time. Not Mikal. Not 4 FRPs and not two more pick swaps

But back to Booker --- You talk about going 85% on the tank. I think the percentages are wrong - -keeping Booker isn't worth 15% of the tank - its would 75% and Durant is worth the other 25% - those are the only true things the Suns have to get better.

[BobbieL]

Should have traded Durant for a haul of picks and a young player or two. His return is only going to get worse over time and with knowledge that he is unhappy after hearing his name involved in trade talks. The only player that has a say over his destiny is Beal, and you can't be mad at him as that was always the reality. The Durant experiment epically failed and the team has been worse after his acquisition and progressively so. Dark times in the Valley.

I wanted to blow this team up on draft night 2024. Was okay seeing things play out once we acquired Tyus Jones. Then I'm pretty sure I was the first to advocate blowing it up this season. Funny, I threw out Kuminga-Butler/Durant/Wiggins+ as an idea a day or so before it was revealed that was actually agreed to before Durant nixed it. Funny!

If we want a decent haul for Durant, our last best chance is draft night 2025. Draft picks are cheaper to acquire on draft night. If OKC or HOU decide to push all-in and with Booker or Durant (or one to each), that should be plan A. If SAS or MEM want in on the sweepstakes, add them to the list, along with any other win-now team willing to poney up the picks.

J-Dub is a daydream.Chet isn't a crazy target, but there's a reason for that. Dude's frail. Good players who have reached their potential are wasted on a rebuilding team, so the goal should be to add picks and cap flexibility, which can help us add more picks.

I pray we blow this up on draft night.

I have talked to a few people and the feeling is KD's value isn't nearly as high as a lot of people might think, now that he is kind of upset, may want out, and only has one year on his contract (at 37 years old).

Thinking more on it, and hearing the Grizz called about him, they make perfect sense. At first I didn't think so because of JJJ...but his supermax kicks in 2026 and KD expires, so they would maybe do it for expirings.

However, I just realized they can't because they already traded Smart and dumped a first to get off his salary. The only way they could do it would have been like Smart, Kennard, Clarke, Konchar and a couple of firsts. They would have gotten KD for this year and next, and cleared out space for JJJ Supermax. Clarke and Konchar go into 2027, so they may still want to get off those guys, but I don't think they have enough salary now to trade out since they are not trading Bane, Ja or JJJ obviously.

I think the Suns missed the boat on Durant this week. His value will only get worse. He had value to teams pushing the playoffs and a title for the rest of this year and next year. Too much damn time trying that Butler nonsense.

[bwgood77]

While I could be wrong, I expect a lot of teams to want Durant this summer despite his age and being an expiring. He'll pick teams he'd consider (Dallas I'm sure being one) and we'll make them bid against each other. I imagine he'll extend with that team too

I think a lot may want him, but the market price won't be nearly as high as many might expect. However, every time I look at a team I think might make sense, the salaries coming back don't make sense. I basically expect either not great players and 2 picks, or 1 pick with one or some solid players. Dallas could send like Klay, PJ, Gafford, etc, and maybe one pick. They might have 2. Obviously I'm sure we'd want Lively, Christie, 2 picks, etc...but something like that is probably unlikely. But maybe if they view their window for 5 years...they would keep Gafford and part with Lively for a chance at KD, especially if Nico is desperate after his last trade. Just not sure if they have any more tradable picks other than the one they got from LA.

[bwgood77]

If we want a decent haul for Durant, our last best chance is draft night 2025. Draft picks are cheaper to acquire on draft night. If OKC or HOU decide to push all-in and with Booker or Durant (or one to each), that should be plan A. If SAS or MEM want in on the sweepstakes, add them to the list, along with any other win-now team willing to poney up the picks.

J-Dub is a daydream.Chet isn't a crazy target, but there's a reason for that. Dude's frail. Good players who have reached their potential are wasted on a rebuilding team, so the goal should be to add picks and cap flexibility, which can help us add more picks.

I pray we blow this up on draft night.

I posted this before I saw the headline about Booker wanting to spend his career here - even after all of this. If the loyalty he's professed is this genuine, then ok. He deserves the be able to stay here if he wants. To me, that kind of relationship between a player and a franchise is incredibly valuable and worthy of the investment. You don't need to go 100% on a tank - 85% is just about as effective. These are ping pong balls we're talking about, after all.

All that is to clarify that if Phoenix is truly more important to Devin Booker than winning, then we should value him more than slightly better lotto odds. If he wants to cement himself as the Suns all-time scoring record for the next 50 years, then I for one will be proud to join him on that journey. Just give the man some runners and dunkers to make it fun!

GO SUNS

If Phoenix is more important to him than winning, I still don't necessarily think that means Booker should be more important to Phoenix than winning. No matter what he says, he can still leave in 3 years (as of now). There are no ping pong balls. A couple of late 20s picks in the next 3 years a KD return likely won't be enough to make us a playoff team. We'd have to pin our hopes on signing some big name in 27 and bide our time until then.

Bridges wanted to retire a Sun too. And Cam.

[KdoubleDees23]

Can we take advantage of the buyout market with where we are with the apron ?

If so, what bigs should we go after ?

[BobbieL]

While I could be wrong, I expect a lot of teams to want Durant this summer despite his age and being an expiring. He'll pick teams he'd consider (Dallas I'm sure being one) and we'll make them bid against each other. I imagine he'll extend with that team too

I think a lot may want him, but the market price won't be nearly as high as many might expect. However, every time I look at a team I think might make sense, the salaries coming back don't make sense. I basically expect either not great players and 2 picks, or 1 pick with one or some solid players. Dallas could send like Klay, PJ, Gafford, etc, and maybe one pick. They might have 2. Obviously I'm sure we'd want Lively, Christie, 2 picks, etc...but something like that is probably unlikely. But maybe if they view their window for 5 years...they would keep Gafford and part with Lively for a chance at KD, especially if Nico is desperate after his last trade. Just not sure if they have any more tradable picks other than the one they got from LA.

Read on Twitter

Again, the Suns were jerking around with that Butler nonsense when Durant was right there. Memphis, Minnesota...

[Puff]

There is no front office, just this lunatic and a bunch of yes-men

Agreed....when people say fire Jones, it's like "is he really the problem?" I mean he may be a yes man, but if he is, Ishbia won't bring in a guy who he lets make decisions over him. At least until he gets humbled and realized he should. But I don't even know if he's self aware enough to ever get there. I think at least Sarver got there finally and got better.

I do think Jones has made mistakes, and we need to beef up scouting, but I think he is great with player relations (if he is allowed to take care of that...not susre he is). Ish will probably get rid of him though to blame someone. Probably will get rid of Bud too after praising him so much at the delight of Puff and bring in a new guy Puff won't like. Because no one can probably do anything with our current roster makeup.

Is that sarcasm? I hoped Bud would be better than Vogel, but he is not. We needed a point guard, Vogel wanted one also. Bud got one and uses him to bring the ball to half court on most possessions. He is creating very little offense and has turned into a corner 3 pointer shooter that cannot guard anyone. We should half left Beal as the starter, like Vogel. He won 49 games that way.

I wish we knew the true story behind Nurkic. He surely has his issues but he is better than either Richards or Plumlee. Why didn't Bud keep playing him. If a player or employee doesn't do what you want. A Conversation just might help. I expect that is was a KD decision.

There is an article out about how we can acquire great talent but do not know how to build a team. I think that statement is on the money.

My solution, fire Bud and hire CP3 as head coach this summer. I assure you that CP3 would have had discussions with Nukic.

Richards is not the answer and will be gone either this or next summer.

Ish will probably extend KD for 2 more years at $60 Mil each.

[BobbieL]

Can we take advantage of the buyout market with where we are with the apron ?

If so, what bigs should we go after ?

PJ Tucker maybe?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

From earlier today! They make a pretty good but also obvious point. But how truly bad must our front office be if this is the consensus opinion of the entire league.

How are we good at talent acquisition? By trading one of the most massive hauls in history for 34 year old KD? They have made what look like decent fringe moves getting Royce, Jones, Morris, etc. I don't really think the Ayton/Camara for Nurkic/Allen was a great trade. I understand why they wanted to get off of Ayton, but still don't think it was good.

I don't really view Martin, Richards, or any of these other moves as great talent acquisitions.

Yeah! I think they were just trying to be somewhat diplomatic giving some sort of false complement rather than outright eviscerating us about the obvious! But I struggle to find any semblance of competence in our front office and ownership.

[sunsfan1o1]

There is no front office, just this lunatic and a bunch of yes-men

Agreed....when people say fire Jones, it's like "is he really the problem?" I mean he may be a yes man, but if he is, Ishbia won't bring in a guy who he lets make decisions over him. At least until he gets humbled and realized he should. But I don't even know if he's self aware enough to ever get there. I think at least Sarver got there finally and got better.

I do think Jones has made mistakes, and we need to beef up scouting, but I think he is great with player relations (if he is allowed to take care of that...not susre he is). Ish will probably get rid of him though to blame someone. Probably will get rid of Bud too after praising him so much at the delight of Puff and bring in a new guy Puff won't like. Because no one can probably do anything with our current roster makeup.

Is that sarcasm? I hoped Bud would be better than Vogel, but he is not. We needed a point guard, Vogel wanted one also. Bud got one and uses him to bring the ball to half court on most possessions. He is creating very little offense and has turned into a corner 3 pointer shooter that cannot guard anyone. We should half left Beal as the starter, like Vogel. He won 49 games that way.

I wish we knew the true story behind Nurkic. He surely has his issues but he is better than either Richards or Plumlee. Why didn't Bud keep playing him. If a player or employee doesn't do what you want. A Conversation just might help. I expect that is was a KD decision.

There is an article out about how we can acquire great talent but do not know how to build a team. I think that statement is on the money.

My solution, fire Bud and hire CP3 as head coach this summer. I assure you that CP3 would have had discussions with Nukic.

Richards is not the answer and will be gone either this or next summer.

Ish will probably extend KD for 2 more years at $60 Mil each.

We were 8-1 with Beal as a starter. Coach is doing too much. Take jones out the starting lineup. I don’t care how much money he sacrificed to play on the suns.
Beal, Booker, KD, Royce, Richards. I prefer Monte Morris over Tyus. Once this coach realizes Tyus jones is the root cause of our losing we will start looking like a real team
We could sign Dwight Howard today and he’d instantly become our best Center rebounder and defender today.

[SkyBill40]

It's hard to fathom just how badly this season has turned out. I mean I didn't expect greatness, but I certainly expected better than what we've seen so far.

[bwgood77]

While I could be wrong, I expect a lot of teams to want Durant this summer despite his age and being an expiring. He'll pick teams he'd consider (Dallas I'm sure being one) and we'll make them bid against each other. I imagine he'll extend with that team too

I think a lot may want him, but the market price won't be nearly as high as many might expect. However, every time I look at a team I think might make sense, the salaries coming back don't make sense. I basically expect either not great players and 2 picks, or 1 pick with one or some solid players. Dallas could send like Klay, PJ, Gafford, etc, and maybe one pick. They might have 2. Obviously I'm sure we'd want Lively, Christie, 2 picks, etc...but something like that is probably unlikely. But maybe if they view their window for 5 years...they would keep Gafford and part with Lively for a chance at KD, especially if Nico is desperate after his last trade. Just not sure if they have any more tradable picks other than the one they got from LA.

Read on Twitter

Again, the Suns were jerking around with that Butler nonsense when Durant was right there. Memphis, Minnesota...

TWolves don't really have any picks though. They traded all of them for Gobert through 29. They do have one incoming protected for selections 1-13 this summer, so if we were to trade him before the draft, we could probably get that and they do have a few seconds. Maybe get in on some swaps though they likely wouldn't amount to much.

Randle and Reid have player options. We'd have to take both, but if they take their options, they will expire in 26, so this trade would be good I think:

KD for Randle (who we let expire in 26 opening $30 million in cap room), Naz Reid (main player in deal that we want to keep...he's good), Dillingham, and the 25 Detroit first, along with 2 seconds. They'd probably want to give us Donte, but I'd prefer to leave him out because we almost have to take Randle for matching and Reid is much more valuable to me than Donte.

So the 25 first, Naz Reid, Dillingham, Randle (who would be a huge expiring helping us with cap room in 26) and maybe some 2nds.

I think a frontcourt of Randle and Reid for one year wouldn't be too bad. I'm not a big Randle fan but I like him better than I used to. Fellow Kentucky guy if we keep Book at least one more year.

I might like this the best of realistic possibilities.

Of course I'd prefer Jalen Williams, Chet, Amen, Banchero, Wagner, etc...but those are a pipe dream in my opinion.

The most important thing to say about that content though is he doesn't have to approve any trade. He always talks about franchises not being loyal to players, but he's the one who left OKC for nothing with zero warning and then left GS as well.

[TeamTragic]

Per Windy KD unhappy and frustrated with being in trade talks and will not stay with Suns.

I don't know how to feel about this.

[grumpysaddle]

Time to develop Dunn, Oso, and even the other young guys we have barely played with actual NBA minutes. Tell them to go out there and play hard and aggressive and give them a long leash on mistakes. Bol Bol should be getting 20 minutes a game from here on out. Jalen Bridges and Gillespie should also see some time. But we will probably keep up the charade of trying to be a competitive team and fail miserably at it.