Official Brandon Ingram Thread

[Thaddy]

The Slim Reefer is going to enjoy Canada for sure. He's going to fit in well here, we just need RJ, IQ, and Barnes to be able to space the floor for him. He had a career year next to Ball, I see IQ having a similar effective on him. CJ and Ingram were a terrible fit together.

Barnes isn't going to be a spacer for him. BUt he should be able to cut around him and use Ingram's spacing to have an easier time on the block. That should help when BI is on the floor. And if Scottie does end up running some PnR and getting into the lane, they'll either be late helping off of BI or they're going to give up 3s to him all game long.

Space isn't going to be an issue. He will have more than he did in New Orleans. Barnes can shoot better than Zion and they'll be able to play off each other well. IQ, Barnes, and even Barrett have good passing chops. The Ingram/Barnes pick and roll should cause a lot of problems for opposing teams. One of the keys will be to have Ingram shoot more three point shots and be a three point shot creator. He ranks 95th perecent in shot creation and offensive load.

https://craftednba.com/players/brandon-ingram

[tsherkin]

Space isn't going to be an issue. He will have more than he did in New Orleans. Barnes can shoot better than Zion

Zion doesn't shoot much outside of 10 feet, fair. But he has his own gravity as a result of his power and explosion.

But again, I quoted you. You were talking about Barnes (and others, of course) spacing for BI and I was noting that Barnes isn't spacing for anyone. He can't shoot the 3.

More broadly, yes, the collection of talent we have now should theoretically be able to open some things up for BI, but I was making a fairly specific point.

[tdotrep2]

I'm excited. What stuck out to me about BI is how good of a passer he is. It's been mentioned that he's extremely coachable so I could see him actually breaking out with the offense that we run. His whole career he's been apart of iso heavy offenses so I think he's actually going to surprise a lot of people with the way he plays and how effective he is going to be.

[mtcan]

The one change in Toronto that I'm hopeful for BI is the development and conditioning aspect. Our medical and sports science staff are top notch. In the time between now and the start of next season...let's see if they improve the conditioning and his body overall so that he can play at least 70+ games a season going forward.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[Thaddy]

Space isn't going to be an issue. He will have more than he did in New Orleans. Barnes can shoot better than Zion

Zion doesn't shoot much outside of 10 feet, fair. But he has his own gravity as a result of his power and explosion.

But again, I quoted you. You were talking about Barnes (and others, of course) spacing for BI and I was noting that Barnes isn't spacing for anyone. He can't shoot the 3.

More broadly, yes, the collection of talent we have now should theoretically be able to open some things up for BI, but I was making a fairly specific point.

We need Barnes to do that but he currently can't. I said we 'need' not that he 'can'.

Barnes can hit the corner 3 and stationary shots better than movement and off the dribble threes like he's been trying. The skill isn't fully there but he'll do it better than Zion. BI is also taking more threes than he ever has before. Per 100 possessions Ingram is taking nearly 9, that's the most he's ever taken in his career. From a 3pt volume perspective between Ingram, IQ, Barrett, and our bench (Dick, Walter, Battle) we will be fine.

[tsherkin]

We need Barnes to do that but he currently can't. I said we 'need' not that he 'can'.

Yes, but need notwithstanding, he won't. So it's moot, at least with respect to him specifically.

Barnes can hit the corner 3 and stationary shots better than movement and off the dribble threes like he's been trying.

Sure, in theory.

But he's actually shot under 32% from the corner in 2 of his past 3 seasons (including the active one), and is a career 34% shooter from the corners. Going back to his rookie season in 2022, the league average from the corners has been 38.3, 38.7%, 39.3% and 38.6%.

Barnes has been -1.3%, -7.1%, -2.9% and -7.8%.

He's not doing us any favors shooting from the corner. He's pretty much crap from there.

BI is also taking more threes than he ever has before. Per 100 possessions Ingram is taking nearly 9, that's the most he's ever taken in his career.

Yeah, by 0.7. In 2020 and 2021, he took 8.4 and 8.6 3PA100. He's at 9.3 right now. That isn't a huge difference.

But I'm not really worried about his 3pt volume; he's actually a pretty good 3pt shooter. Jump shooting is the least of his issues, generally speaking.

[Brinbe]

His skill and scoring ability is undeniable. We've been waiting a long time for a certified 3-level bucket getter to play here once again, especially someone that can generate a bucket for himself in the half-court and we got that guy. Not that it's without risks of course, but we do have a pretty good training staff and history of managing player health like with Kawhi but also just simply developing players in a positive fashion as we've seen with Pascal/OG/RJ/Scottie. At 27/28, he's right in his prime and should be near his best in the next few years here.

Not saying the outcome will be the exact same, but it really reminds me of Lowry's situation where he came here in his mid-late 20s as a somewhat established vet with some clear positives to his game, but came in with question marks as well. But that risk paid off and Kyle took his entire game to the next level here. And I'm being clear that I'm not saying that it will absolutely happen in the same way for BI, but I don't know why you wouldn't be rooting for his success as a fan of this team.

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[StopitLeo]

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Why exactly do we want high volume pull-up 3s?

[Thaddy]

We need Barnes to do that but he currently can't. I said we 'need' not that he 'can'.

Yes, but need notwithstanding, he won't. So it's moot, at least with respect to him specifically.

Barnes can hit the corner 3 and stationary shots better than movement and off the dribble threes like he's been trying.

Sure, in theory.

But he's actually shot under 32% from the corner in 2 of his past 3 seasons (including the active one), and is a career 34% shooter from the corners. Going back to his rookie season in 2022, the league average from the corners has been 38.3, 38.7%, 39.3% and 38.6%.

Barnes has been -1.3%, -7.1%, -2.9% and -7.8%.

He's not doing us any favors shooting from the corner. He's pretty much crap from there.

BI is also taking more threes than he ever has before. Per 100 possessions Ingram is taking nearly 9, that's the most he's ever taken in his career.

Yeah, by 0.7. In 2020 and 2021, he took 8.4 and 8.6 3PA100. He's at 9.3 right now. That isn't a huge difference.

But I'm not really worried about his 3pt volume; he's actually a pretty good 3pt shooter. Jump shooting is the least of his issues, generally speaking.

We turned Siakam into a respectable shooter. He went from mid range to the corner and then extended. Barnes jumped the gun due to injuries and Darko's orders. I expect it to dial down and for him to focus on the corners and mid range going forward.

[bape_lovers]

isnt that like the new era worst shot? unless you are steph/trae, no one should be shooting a high volume pull up 3s

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Why exactly do we want high volume pull-up 3s?

[tsherkin]

We turned Siakam into a respectable shooter. He went from mid range to the corner and then extended. Barnes jumped the gun due to injuries and Darko's orders. I expect it to dial down and for him to focus on the corners and mid range going forward.

Siakam made a visible leap in his third season, and was shooting pretty well on long twos to begin with, even as a rookie. Got his middie going in his second season. Put them both together in his third season. His development arc is QUITE distinct from Scottie's. He was also a 41.% corner 3pt shooter in his third season, and has generally been a 38.3% corner shooter on his career to this point.

He responded well. Scottie has not. I don't consider them strongly comparable in that regard.

For sure, we should expect him to take fewer ATB 3s at this point. Fewer pull-ups, fewer catch-and-shoot 3s above the break. We should be posting him, getting him to cut more, heading out in transition, that sort of thing. His broader efficacy should increase for us as his volume comes down and his creation load drops as well.

[Dexjackson]

Say what now? That can’t be true. An NBA team didn’t have a PT before last season?! Amateur hour.

That's wild. I know you can easily contract an outside provider, but to not have at least one in-house physiotherapist when you're committing hundreds of millions to player contracts is some terrible risk management.

A quote from their GM:

“We didn’t have a (physical therapist) before, Langdon said. I think that was one thing that a lot of the players questioned at the end of the year, especially with the amount of injuries that we had.”Source

Thanks for the source. Not that I didn’t believe you, it just seemed to crazy to be.

As an OT myself it blows my mind that the team didn't have a dedicated PT...that's crazy! Most of the injuries you would go through PT to rehab.

[JB7]

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I think to that short period of time, after the OG trade, and just before Pascal was traded, how the team looked to have a full starting lineup. With 4 scorers on the floor at once, there will be a lot of open shots created for others, and the team can always have at least 2 of the 4 on the floor, at anytime (with better luck on the injury side).

But they will even be able to handle the injuries better with the additional depth in the SL. Injuries are just a fact of life in the NBA.

I would expect their efficiency will get better, next season, after they finish off the tank this season.

[YogurtProducer]

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Quickley has gotta be there once healthy I assume

[YogurtProducer]

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I think to that short period of time, after the OG trade, and just before Pascal was traded, how the team looked to have a full starting lineup. With 4 scorers on the floor at once, there will be a lot of open shots created for others, and the team can always have at least 2 of the 4 on the floor, at anytime (with better luck on the injury side).

But they will even be able to handle the injuries better with the additional depth in the SL. Injuries are just a fact of life in the NBA.

I would expect their efficiency will get better, next season, after they finish off the tank this season.

That period of time you are referring to was 4 games in which we went 3-1, and had a a 121.0ORTG.

[Dalek]

Thinking about how these guys fit on offense makes me think the top four are do everything types, but I'd focus on emphasizing their best attributes on offense:

Brandon Ingram
Focus on:
Pull-up threes
Catch and shoot threes
Broken possessions; ISOs; end of clock possessions
Secondary creator/initiator
Pick and roll with Barnes
Avoid too much transition offense, save this man's legs and let him be a bit more opportunistic on offense.

RJ Barrett
Focus on:
Handler in transition - he is the guy to attack the hoop.
Cuts to rim
Catch and shoot threes
Avoid too much play initiation because he is moving into a tertiary role except with the bench units.

Scottie Barnes
Primary initiator
Creator off the elbows/low post
Transition scorer
Shoot wide-open catch and shoot threes
Avoid pull-up threes and late clock creation. He has less of a scoring load now and can be a playmaker full-time.

Immanuel Quickley
Pull-up threes
Pick and roll with Poeltl
Catch and shoot threes
Avoid at the rim attempts. He just is not a good finisher but with Poeltl he can get space he needs and Poeltl has great hands.

Its all theoretical but I think it can work. Basically we are subbing poor creator/finisher and terrible defender (Gradey Dick) with Brandon Ingram. That is crazy upgrade even if Ingram is not the best defender.

[niQ]

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[StopitLeo]

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Quickley has gotta be there once healthy I assume

The sample size is small this season but at the moment he's shooting almost 45% which is the highest 3P% on pull-ups amongst guys taking 3+ per game.

IQ was near the top of the league last year as well but the 3P% was 37%. I'd be fine with him doubling the volume of pull-up 3s he takes if that is somehow beneficial to the offence.