Bulls sign Lonzo Ball to 2 year, $20 million extension

[Dez]

Can't wait to see that value contract expire and go to waste.

[step]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

1. What does $10 million matter to the Bulls for one year? Other than saying Lonzo has been injured, which is a huge so what for a deal like this, please explain how this contract damages the Bulls. If he plays literally zero games next year, what is the damage?

There was no real need to do it just yet. We held his bird rights and could have used that to retain him if we so wished.

We literally have seen this play out with Vuc in not letting the market dictate what he's truly worth. Oh we think you're at 20M. Watches other Centers sign for half or less. Now 10M won't bite us completely in the ass... but the repeating habit of overpaying your own players is troublesome.

And it's not like we were in a desperate need to resolve his cap hold status. Having it on the books could have played into the potential Giddey negotiations.

Does 10M bite us in the ass? No.
But how does potentially retaining Ball @ 5M not help us more? And in regards to future trade value, what appeals to teams more?

[jnrjr79]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

1. What does $10 million matter to the Bulls for one year? Other than saying Lonzo has been injured, which is a huge so what for a deal like this, please explain how this contract damages the Bulls. If he plays literally zero games next year, what is the damage?

There was no real need to do it just yet. We held his bird rights and could have used that to retain him if we so wished.

We literally have seen this play out with Vuc in not letting the market dictate what he's truly worth. Oh we think you're at 20M. Watches other Centers sign for half or less. Now 10M won't bite us completely in the ass... but the repeating habit of overpaying your own players is troublesome.

And it's not like we were in a desperate need to resolve his cap hold status. Having it on the books could have played into the potential Giddey negotiations.

Does 10M bite us in the ass? No.
But how does potentially retaining Ball @ 5M not help us more? And in regards to future trade value, what appeals to teams more?

His Bird rights aren't relevant to this discussion. The Bird rights allow the retaining team to give him a higher salary than other teams. The Bulls were never going to be in a position of "they can only offer you the MLE, but we can go higher," but even if some team were going to sign him to the MLE, then the Bulls would have to had paid him considerably more than they just did.

Lonzo was set to be an UFA as well, so the Bulls would have had no matching ability if another team made an offer.

[jacoby1us]

Moneywise it's fine, but why ? We need to be gutting this thing to the studs.

Maybe to increase his trade value? He could be a guy to flip for a late 1st at next year's deadline.

I don’t know how they watch what’s played out at this deadline and think they can get a 1st for Lonzo.

If we couldn't get a FRP for Lavine, Derozan or Caruso I am certain NO ONE will give the Bulls a FRP for him. We only got our 2025 pick back from the Spurs without the restrictions. This managment should be TIRED OF BEING FLEECED.

[League Circles]

Maybe to increase his trade value? He could be a guy to flip for a late 1st at next year's deadline.

I don’t know how they watch what’s played out at this deadline and think they can get a 1st for Lonzo.

If we couldn't get a FRP for Lavine, Derozan or Caruso I am certain NO ONE will give the Bulls a FRP for him. We only got our 2025 pick back from the Spurs without the restrictions. This managment should be TIRED OF BEING FLEECED.

But........ We DID get a lottery pick for Zach (just coincidence that it was ours), and got a recent high lottery pick who was actually panning out for Caruso. And Derozan was a UFA that we didn't even want anymore.

Lonzo can plausibly be traded for good value either this summer, during next season, or summer 2026.

[CROBulls]

I don’t know how they watch what’s played out at this deadline and think they can get a 1st for Lonzo.

If we couldn't get a FRP for Lavine, Derozan or Caruso I am certain NO ONE will give the Bulls a FRP for him. We only got our 2025 pick back from the Spurs without the restrictions. This managment should be TIRED OF BEING FLEECED.

But........ We DID get a lottery pick for Zach (just coincidence that it was ours), and got a recent high lottery pick who was actually panning out for Caruso. And Derozan was a UFA that we didn't even want anymore.

Lonzo can plausibly be traded for good value either this summer, during next season, or summer 2026.

No we got a half of lottery pick for Lavine. Less than half. 10-15 range. We owned 1-9.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

let me just ask: if Lonzo Ball enters free agency, which team is using $10mil out of their cap space to sign him?

I'm not against the signing because I like Lonzo and I hate Giddey and somebody needs to play basketball for this team. It's not much money or for very long. there's a team option. It's not the Pat or Benintendi special. I just don't think it's a "sweetheart deal" or like he took a paycut because the Bulls were so nice to him while he was healing. I think he got a good deal and took it.

actually it's amusing how polarizing the deal is. maybe it evens out in the middle as "fair". I think it's inconsequential. he won't be traded and that's fine with me, I suspect he's here to just play. I used to see him on ads around the city and I don't anymore. He's a celebrity, a star, I hope his game returns with the Bulls and he signs a long term extension so I can look at him next to Coby advertising the hospital while I wait for a train.

honestly this 'deadline shakeup' stuff has sort of re-inspired my interest in the sport. I'm totally a conspiracy theorist and I think that was the point of the Luka deal (gambling is a factor as well. possibly reptillians) -- and it worked. for now. I'll miss Zach but it's refreshing that he's not on the team anymore.

[League Circles]

If we couldn't get a FRP for Lavine, Derozan or Caruso I am certain NO ONE will give the Bulls a FRP for him. We only got our 2025 pick back from the Spurs without the restrictions. This managment should be TIRED OF BEING FLEECED.

But........ We DID get a lottery pick for Zach (just coincidence that it was ours), and got a recent high lottery pick who was actually panning out for Caruso. And Derozan was a UFA that we didn't even want anymore.

Lonzo can plausibly be traded for good value either this summer, during next season, or summer 2026.

No we got a half of lottery pick for Lavine. Less than half. 10-15 range. We owned 1-9.

I can't remember the protections exactly for the subsequent years, but If it hadn't conveyed this year it very well may have either of the next two years IIRC and would at minimum be a second rounder. Now it's ours, period. You're partially right in a sense, but odds are pretty good the pick would have conveyed as a first at some point (and restricted our trading options until it did), and picks can't be divided in half. We traded for a pick.

[League Circles]

let me just ask: if Lonzo Ball enters free agency, which team is using $10mil out of their cap space to sign him?

I'm not against the signing because I like Lonzo and I hate Giddey and somebody needs to play basketball for this team. It's not much money or for very long. there's a team option. It's not the Pat or Benintendi special. I just don't think it's a "sweetheart deal" or like he took a paycut because the Bulls were so nice to him while he was healing. I think he got a good deal and took it.

actually it's amusing how polarizing the deal is. maybe it evens out in the middle as "fair". I think it's inconsequential. he won't be traded and that's fine with me, I suspect he's here to just play. I used to see him on ads around the city and I don't anymore. He's a celebrity, a star, I hope his game returns with the Bulls and he signs a long term extension so I can look at him next to Coby advertising the hospital while I wait for a train.

honestly this 'deadline shakeup' stuff has sort of re-inspired my interest in the sport. I'm totally a conspiracy theorist and I think that was the point of the Luka deal (gambling is a factor as well. possibly reptillians) -- and it worked. for now. I'll miss Zach but it's refreshing that he's not on the team anymore.

I think it is likely that a team would have offered a multi year MLE deal to him this summer. I sure would if I had a good team that needed a multi positional versatile 2 way player and only had the MLE to work with.

[sco]

let me just ask: if Lonzo Ball enters free agency, which team is using $10mil out of their cap space to sign him?

I'm not against the signing because I like Lonzo and I hate Giddey and somebody needs to play basketball for this team. It's not much money or for very long. there's a team option. It's not the Pat or Benintendi special. I just don't think it's a "sweetheart deal" or like he took a paycut because the Bulls were so nice to him while he was healing. I think he got a good deal and took it.

actually it's amusing how polarizing the deal is. maybe it evens out in the middle as "fair". I think it's inconsequential. he won't be traded and that's fine with me, I suspect he's here to just play. I used to see him on ads around the city and I don't anymore. He's a celebrity, a star, I hope his game returns with the Bulls and he signs a long term extension so I can look at him next to Coby advertising the hospital while I wait for a train.

honestly this 'deadline shakeup' stuff has sort of re-inspired my interest in the sport. I'm totally a conspiracy theorist and I think that was the point of the Luka deal (gambling is a factor as well. possibly reptillians) -- and it worked. for now. I'll miss Zach but it's refreshing that he's not on the team anymore.

I think it is likely that a team would have offered a multi year MLE deal to him this summer. I sure would if I had a good team that needed a multi positional versatile 2 way player and only had the MLE to work with.

Was gonna say exactly the same. I'm just glad that his 3 ball hadn't yet rounded into form before we resigned him. That's usually the last thing to come back. I will note that for January he shot 37% on 6 attempts per game.

I'll go farther and say a healthy (obviously the key word) Ball can be the PG on a contender.

[jnrjr79]

Maybe to increase his trade value? He could be a guy to flip for a late 1st at next year's deadline.

I don’t know how they watch what’s played out at this deadline and think they can get a 1st for Lonzo.

If we couldn't get a FRP for Lavine, Derozan or Caruso I am certain NO ONE will give the Bulls a FRP for him. We only got our 2025 pick back from the Spurs without the restrictions. This managment should be TIRED OF BEING FLEECED.

Instead of the word "couldn't" here, I think I'd prefer "intentionally elected not to," except re: Zach, where the Bulls kinda sorta got a 1st (and probably couldn't have done much more).

The Bulls avoided getting draft comp in the DeRozan S&T because they didn't want to take on salary. It's not that they *couldn't* have gotten one - they weren't willing to pay the luxury tax to do it.

With Caruso, there have been any number of reports that the Bulls could have obtained a 1st. They again chose not to, because the wanted to shortcut the rebuild process by trading for a young player.

You can be critical of this stuff if you want because there's plenty to criticize, but it seems more like financial constraints + AK's philosophical approach than it does simple bad negotiation. (Though the constant misuse of 2nd round picks seems like the latter, to me).

[jnrjr79]

If we couldn't get a FRP for Lavine, Derozan or Caruso I am certain NO ONE will give the Bulls a FRP for him. We only got our 2025 pick back from the Spurs without the restrictions. This managment should be TIRED OF BEING FLEECED.

But........ We DID get a lottery pick for Zach (just coincidence that it was ours), and got a recent high lottery pick who was actually panning out for Caruso. And Derozan was a UFA that we didn't even want anymore.

Lonzo can plausibly be traded for good value either this summer, during next season, or summer 2026.

No we got a half of lottery pick for Lavine. Less than half. 10-15 range. We owned 1-9.

This is incomplete. It's not just the effect of this year, where the Bulls had a decent chance, but weren't certain, to keep the pick. The bigger deal is eliminating the 1-8 protections in the following two seasons, and to a lesser extent not having to shell our 2 2nds if the Bulls could indeed stay in the bottom 8 through 2027.

It's not all that easy to guarantee you'll stay in the bottom 8 (and not get jumped by a team behind you and lose the pick anyway) through 2027, so I'd imagine it was more likely than not they were going to lose a 1st to SA at some point.

[jnrjr79]

let me just ask: if Lonzo Ball enters free agency, which team is using $10mil out of their cap space to sign him?

I'm not against the signing because I like Lonzo and I hate Giddey and somebody needs to play basketball for this team. It's not much money or for very long. there's a team option. It's not the Pat or Benintendi special. I just don't think it's a "sweetheart deal" or like he took a paycut because the Bulls were so nice to him while he was healing. I think he got a good deal and took it.

actually it's amusing how polarizing the deal is. maybe it evens out in the middle as "fair". I think it's inconsequential. he won't be traded and that's fine with me, I suspect he's here to just play. I used to see him on ads around the city and I don't anymore. He's a celebrity, a star, I hope his game returns with the Bulls and he signs a long term extension so I can look at him next to Coby advertising the hospital while I wait for a train.

honestly this 'deadline shakeup' stuff has sort of re-inspired my interest in the sport. I'm totally a conspiracy theorist and I think that was the point of the Luka deal (gambling is a factor as well. possibly reptillians) -- and it worked. for now. I'll miss Zach but it's refreshing that he's not on the team anymore.

A one-year sub-MLE-level deal with a team option in year 2? About half the league would be up for that, IMO.

[step]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

1. What does $10 million matter to the Bulls for one year? Other than saying Lonzo has been injured, which is a huge so what for a deal like this, please explain how this contract damages the Bulls. If he plays literally zero games next year, what is the damage?

There was no real need to do it just yet. We held his bird rights and could have used that to retain him if we so wished.

We literally have seen this play out with Vuc in not letting the market dictate what he's truly worth. Oh we think you're at 20M. Watches other Centers sign for half or less. Now 10M won't bite us completely in the ass... but the repeating habit of overpaying your own players is troublesome.

And it's not like we were in a desperate need to resolve his cap hold status. Having it on the books could have played into the potential Giddey negotiations.

Does 10M bite us in the ass? No.
But how does potentially retaining Ball @ 5M not help us more? And in regards to future trade value, what appeals to teams more?

His Bird rights aren't relevant to this discussion. The Bird rights allow the retaining team to give him a higher salary than other teams. The Bulls were never going to be in a position of "they can only offer you the MLE, but we can go higher," but even if some team were going to sign him to the MLE, then the Bulls would have to had paid him considerably more than they just did.

Lonzo was set to be an UFA as well, so the Bulls would have had no matching ability if another team made an offer.

Sure they are... it all plays a part in the totality of it. If money was his true motivator, his agent would know those rights would allow him to go back to Bulls and negotiate for more.

And who are we kidding here? Nobody out there was going to offer him the full MLE... but we practically did. 10M vs 12.8.

[jnrjr79]

let me just ask: if Lonzo Ball enters free agency, which team is using $10mil out of their cap space to sign him?

I'm not against the signing because I like Lonzo and I hate Giddey and somebody needs to play basketball for this team. It's not much money or for very long. there's a team option. It's not the Pat or Benintendi special. I just don't think it's a "sweetheart deal" or like he took a paycut because the Bulls were so nice to him while he was healing. I think he got a good deal and took it.

actually it's amusing how polarizing the deal is. maybe it evens out in the middle as "fair". I think it's inconsequential. he won't be traded and that's fine with me, I suspect he's here to just play. I used to see him on ads around the city and I don't anymore. He's a celebrity, a star, I hope his game returns with the Bulls and he signs a long term extension so I can look at him next to Coby advertising the hospital while I wait for a train.

honestly this 'deadline shakeup' stuff has sort of re-inspired my interest in the sport. I'm totally a conspiracy theorist and I think that was the point of the Luka deal (gambling is a factor as well. possibly reptillians) -- and it worked. for now. I'll miss Zach but it's refreshing that he's not on the team anymore.

I think it is likely that a team would have offered a multi year MLE deal to him this summer. I sure would if I had a good team that needed a multi positional versatile 2 way player and only had the MLE to work with.

Was gonna say exactly the same. I'm just glad that his 3 ball hadn't yet rounded into form before we resigned him. That's usually the last thing to come back. I will note that for January he shot 37% on 6 attempts per game.

I'll go farther and say a healthy (obviously the key word) Ball can be the PG on a contender.

He's also been recovering from that wrist injury, so I don't know how much of his shot returning is rust vs. recovery.

[jnrjr79]

There was no real need to do it just yet. We held his bird rights and could have used that to retain him if we so wished.

We literally have seen this play out with Vuc in not letting the market dictate what he's truly worth. Oh we think you're at 20M. Watches other Centers sign for half or less. Now 10M won't bite us completely in the ass... but the repeating habit of overpaying your own players is troublesome.

And it's not like we were in a desperate need to resolve his cap hold status. Having it on the books could have played into the potential Giddey negotiations.

Does 10M bite us in the ass? No.
But how does potentially retaining Ball @ 5M not help us more? And in regards to future trade value, what appeals to teams more?

His Bird rights aren't relevant to this discussion. The Bird rights allow the retaining team to give him a higher salary than other teams. The Bulls were never going to be in a position of "they can only offer you the MLE, but we can go higher," but even if some team were going to sign him to the MLE, then the Bulls would have to had paid him considerably more than they just did.

Lonzo was set to be an UFA as well, so the Bulls would have had no matching ability if another team made an offer.

Sure they are... it all plays a part in the totality of it. If money was his true motivator, his agent would know those rights would allow him to go back to Bulls and negotiate for more.

And who are we kidding here? Nobody out there was going to offer him the full MLE... but we practically did. 10M vs 12.9.

The deal kicks in next year, when the MLE is projected to be $14.1M, FYI.

I'm still not understanding your point on Bird rights - you think the Bulls should have let him hit the market and then gone above the MLE to sign him if another team offered him the MLE? Seems worse!

[CROBulls]

But........ We DID get a lottery pick for Zach (just coincidence that it was ours), and got a recent high lottery pick who was actually panning out for Caruso. And Derozan was a UFA that we didn't even want anymore.

Lonzo can plausibly be traded for good value either this summer, during next season, or summer 2026.

No we got a half of lottery pick for Lavine. Less than half. 10-15 range. We owned 1-9.

This is incomplete. It's not just the effect of this year, where the Bulls had a decent chance, but weren't certain, to keep the pick. The bigger deal is eliminating the 1-8 protections in the following two seasons, and to a lesser extent not having to shell our 2 2nds if the Bulls could indeed stay in the bottom 8 through 2027.

It's not all that easy to guarantee you'll stay in the bottom 8 (and not get jumped by a team behind you and lose the pick anyway) through 2027, so I'd imagine it was more likely than not they were going to lose a 1st to SA at some point.

if bulls are interested in rebuild, retool whatever you wanna call it they will still gonna be bottom 8 next year. just from start of season. if your plan is to move coby white and vuc and extend ayo and josh. and give keys to matas. I dont see a way where that team is not bottom 8 next year.

Nobody is signing here in FA who is actually worth a damn. And you should not be interested in FA to give any kind of deals to mid players given you looking to move mid players like White and Vuc. So bottom 8 is guaranteed next year. We can argue semantics, but Bulls really didnt get anything for Zach. Bulls just wanted to get rid of Zach's salary, getting control over pick is just not something AKME values like you and me do.

[jnrjr79]

No we got a half of lottery pick for Lavine. Less than half. 10-15 range. We owned 1-9.

This is incomplete. It's not just the effect of this year, where the Bulls had a decent chance, but weren't certain, to keep the pick. The bigger deal is eliminating the 1-8 protections in the following two seasons, and to a lesser extent not having to shell our 2 2nds if the Bulls could indeed stay in the bottom 8 through 2027.

It's not all that easy to guarantee you'll stay in the bottom 8 (and not get jumped by a team behind you and lose the pick anyway) through 2027, so I'd imagine it was more likely than not they were going to lose a 1st to SA at some point.

if bulls are interested in rebuild they still gonna be bottom 8. if your plan is to move coby white and vuc and extend ayo and josh. and give keys to matas. I dont see a way where that team is not bottom 8 next year.

Nobody is signing here in FA who is actually worth a damn. And you should not be interested in FA to give any kind of deals to mid players given you looking to move mid players like White and Vuc. So bottom 8 is guaranteed next year.

1) The Bulls are intentionally getting worse. I'm not sure I trust that they're going full-on rebuild, and doing things like Caruso for Giddey suggests they are not. I agree they could do it if they fire-saled Ayo, Coby, etc. in addition to what they've already done, but it takes a little effort to get and stay that bad for multiple years.

2) Extending Lonzo at this price increases his asset value, and it would have been GMing malpractice not to do that when the opportunity arose. You have to manage assets well and not just tank for your own picks when starting a rebuild.

[step]

let me just ask: if Lonzo Ball enters free agency, which team is using $10mil out of their cap space to sign him?

I'm not against the signing because I like Lonzo and I hate Giddey and somebody needs to play basketball for this team. It's not much money or for very long. there's a team option. It's not the Pat or Benintendi special. I just don't think it's a "sweetheart deal" or like he took a paycut because the Bulls were so nice to him while he was healing. I think he got a good deal and took it.

actually it's amusing how polarizing the deal is. maybe it evens out in the middle as "fair". I think it's inconsequential. he won't be traded and that's fine with me, I suspect he's here to just play. I used to see him on ads around the city and I don't anymore. He's a celebrity, a star, I hope his game returns with the Bulls and he signs a long term extension so I can look at him next to Coby advertising the hospital while I wait for a train.

honestly this 'deadline shakeup' stuff has sort of re-inspired my interest in the sport. I'm totally a conspiracy theorist and I think that was the point of the Luka deal (gambling is a factor as well. possibly reptillians) -- and it worked. for now. I'll miss Zach but it's refreshing that he's not on the team anymore.

A one-year sub-MLE-level deal with a team option in year 2? About half the league would be up for that, IMO.

Room MLE: $7,983,000
Non-Taxpayer MLE: $12,822,000
Taxpayer MLE: $5,168,000

I have no doubt about the taxpayer MLE, but considering how many of the competing teams are cleaning up their books and also in the position to want, let alone be able to offer the full non-taxpayer MLE. Low.

[League Circles]

There was no real need to do it just yet. We held his bird rights and could have used that to retain him if we so wished.

We literally have seen this play out with Vuc in not letting the market dictate what he's truly worth. Oh we think you're at 20M. Watches other Centers sign for half or less. Now 10M won't bite us completely in the ass... but the repeating habit of overpaying your own players is troublesome.

And it's not like we were in a desperate need to resolve his cap hold status. Having it on the books could have played into the potential Giddey negotiations.

Does 10M bite us in the ass? No.
But how does potentially retaining Ball @ 5M not help us more? And in regards to future trade value, what appeals to teams more?

His Bird rights aren't relevant to this discussion. The Bird rights allow the retaining team to give him a higher salary than other teams. The Bulls were never going to be in a position of "they can only offer you the MLE, but we can go higher," but even if some team were going to sign him to the MLE, then the Bulls would have to had paid him considerably more than they just did.

Lonzo was set to be an UFA as well, so the Bulls would have had no matching ability if another team made an offer.

Sure they are... it all plays a part in the totality of it. If money was his true motivator, his agent would know those rights would allow him to go back to Bulls and negotiate for more.

And who are we kidding here? Nobody out there was going to offer him the full MLE... but we practically did. 10M vs 12.8.

We offered him 25% less than the MLE for one season. IMO he could have trivially gotten the full MLE for 2-4 years from someone.