NBA Trade Thread #11

[sco]

What do you see as the value of the group we are most willing to trade? What is the offer that you would take?

1-Vuc-I'd take 2 seconds but I think that offer will be available this Summer. Good for them for shooting for a late first and not being willing to eat bad contracts
2-Coby-I would hold out for a 1st in the teens. I think that would pull me to make the move. He's still very good, I'm in no rush to get rid of him for a weaks deal
3-5 Huerter, Carter, Collins I'd take a 2nd but am in no rush to get rid of anyone but Carter. Collins is the one I'd like to trade the least because we finally have size. He's not really worth his contract but it's expiring.

Good question:

Vuc - expirings only. IMO, next season should be sorting out guys we have before we lose them (and not about making the playoffs). I really want to give Smith a good look at the starting gig ASAP. I'm high on him and think he could be a viable starting C, but I need to see it.

Coby - I think we need to see him in the primary scoring role for the remainder of the season. If he plays like he has so far this season, I'd trade him for whatever we can get, just to move on. If he really steps up, I'd raise my price to a where you are.

Heurter, Carter, Collins - I'm with you. I'd open to seeing if we can get value for them as expirings this offseason or next trade deadline. The ideal situation is that we get either a 1st or promising young player back (along with a longer bad contract).

[Muzbar]

If I can AI summarise this it seems people would rather have a bad trade to bitch about then no trade at all.

And to anybody worrying about Vuc winning us games and ruining our lotto chances. I feel like Vuc is going to go into Pouty Vuc mode and will phone the next 30 games in.

I'm more worried about Matas going full Mirotic and winning us games. (not the worst result but I'd rather a good pick)

People want to pivot away from the mediocrity that this team has been for the last few seasons, instead they've stayed mediocre, just without Zach.

The direction hasn't changed, AK is still talking about trying to make the play-in.

The only way this team changes is by getting a new front office.

What a load of BullChit.

He is talking about trying to make the play in because that's what any good leader of a team of any sport would do. They have clearly changed the direction.

He's talked about making the play-in/playoffs after every deadline, trading just Zach is not a change in direction.

Stop simping.

[jnrjr79]

People want to pivot away from the mediocrity that this team has been for the last few seasons, instead they've stayed mediocre, just without Zach.

The direction hasn't changed, AK is still talking about trying to make the play-in.

The only way this team changes is by getting a new front office.

What a load of BullChit.

He is talking about trying to make the play in because that's what any good leader of a team of any sport would do. They have clearly changed the direction.

He's talked about making the play-in/playoffs after every deadline, trading just Zach is not a change in direction.

Stop simping.

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

[Infinity2152]

How many GM's are currently saying publicly that they're not trying to make the playoffs? Out of 30 GM's, is there one doing what you all want AK to do? Say he's tanking and open up league investigation? People believe what they want to believe, it doesn't matter what he says. Only a horrible GM would tell the public and all their young guys that they're basically losers and they're getting minutes to help us lose more.

Putting every player on the team on the trading block is more telling than any words. Let Derozan go, traded Lavine, tried to trade Vuc. Basically tried to get rid of every "star" on the team. He needs the young players to look good, why not try to be optimistic instead of pessimistic? When they lose, they still feel supported somewhat.

[Guru]

He is talking about trying to make the play in because that's what any good leader of a team of any sport would do. They have clearly changed the direction.

He's talked about making the play-in/playoffs after every deadline, trading just Zach is not a change in direction.

Stop simping.

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

Its very obviously true and no leader is going to say we are trying to lose. It's nonsensical.

[jnrjr79]

He's talked about making the play-in/playoffs after every deadline, trading just Zach is not a change in direction.

Stop simping.

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

Its very obviously true and no leader is going to say we are trying to lose. It's nonsensical.

I mean, I think AK sucks and is very bad at press conferences, but IMO you have to be pretty naive to take his press conference talk about being competitive at face value while watching him trade away the 3 best players on the team. It's possible he's that dumb/delusional, but the moves are more consistent with a team deliberately getting worse and younger.

[Muzbar]

He is talking about trying to make the play in because that's what any good leader of a team of any sport would do. They have clearly changed the direction.

He's talked about making the play-in/playoffs after every deadline, trading just Zach is not a change in direction.

Stop simping.

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

So, he hasn't changed direction then? He's just traded for a younger player, smaller contracts, control of their FRPs back and a 2nd round pick.

I suppose that is different than trading the teams future lottery picks for aging vets that lead the team nowhere.

[jnrjr79]

He's talked about making the play-in/playoffs after every deadline, trading just Zach is not a change in direction.

Stop simping.

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

So, he hasn't changed direction then? He's just traded for a younger player, smaller contracts, control of their FRPs back and a 2nd round pick.

There is no good-faith argument that he hasn't changed direction. His disastrous attempt to build a competitor failed, so he has traded away 3/4 of its main pieces, and it's been widely reported he'll try to move Vooch again this summer.

I think it's less clear that the Bulls are "blowing it up" in the conventional sense, versus trying to shortcut the rebuild with things like the Giddey trade. I'd agree it looks like AK is not teeing things up for what a lot of us probably think is the "right" kind of rebuild - taking bad money, acquiring tons of draft capital, accepting sucking for multiple years, etc.

It seems like he wants to get young players, take a step back on wins and losses, and have a boatload of cap space in 2026. At best, I think he's going after a 2-year mini-tank. I'm not arguing this is good or smart, but it's also not "same old, same old."

I suppose that is different than trading the teams future lottery picks for aging vets that lead the team nowhere.

Yep - he's acknowledged that version 1.0 didn't work and is shifting gears. That's good. But I have no particular faith that 2.0 is going to go any better, other than having some degree of hope that Matas is a dude.

[Guru]

He's talked about making the play-in/playoffs after every deadline, trading just Zach is not a change in direction.

Stop simping.

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

So, he hasn't changed direction then? He's just traded for a younger player, smaller contracts, control of their FRPs back and a 2nd round pick.

I suppose that is different than trading the teams future lottery picks for aging vets that lead the team nowhere.

Your sentences don't even make sense. They don't follow each other

[Muzbar]

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

So, he hasn't changed direction then? He's just traded for a younger player, smaller contracts, control of their FRPs back and a 2nd round pick.

There is no good-faith argument that he hasn't changed direction. His disastrous attempt to build a competitor failed, so he has traded away 3/4 of its main pieces, and it's been widely reported he'll try to move Vooch again this summer.

I think it's less clear that the Bulls are "blowing it up" in the conventional sense, versus trying to shortcut the rebuild with things like the Giddey trade. I'd agree it looks like AK is not teeing things up for what a lot of us probably think is the "right" kind of rebuild - taking bad money, acquiring tons of draft capital, accepting sucking for multiple years, etc.

It seems like he wants to get young players, take a step back on wins and losses, and have a boatload of cap space in 2026. At best, I think he's going after a 2-year mini-tank. I'm not arguing this is good or smart, but it's also not "same old, same old."

I suppose that is different than trading the teams future lottery picks for aging vets that lead the team nowhere.

Yep - he's acknowledged that version 1.0 didn't work and is shifting gears. That's good. But I have no particular faith that 2.0 is going to go any better, other than having some degree of hope that Matas is a dude.

I wish I could share your level of optimism (at least it's not overbearing like some), but I have zero faith in AK to do what is right by the franchise, I don't believe this is a rebuild in anyway, this is a retool. The team has zero foundation pieces to build this team of 8-9 "very good" players that he speaks of.

Version 1.0 hadn't worked for some time, he refused to acknowledge/action that and instead just tried to put some duct tape on it here and there to try and make it look like it was working.

I'm 100% done with AK, new leadership is needed.

[Infinity2152]

Yeah, I don't think you can pivot to talking about rebuilding and playing young guys very easily in the middle of the season. Season started with high expectations for Giddey, Ball, Pat, Smith as new or returning additions, hopeful improvement from Coby, Phillips and Ayo, draft of Matas, plus our two stars. The Bulls were/are a pretty young team and were not even considering tanking, I'm sure.

If Giddey and Pat take just one solid step forward this season, that's a pretty solid team. A 15 pts and 7-8 rebounds Pat Will playing 32 mins with better health alone have made the team look much better. Don't think they would have paid him if they weren't expecting improvement.

Also don't think AK is going anywhere. Given the pivot from building a contender to tearing it down, the fact that he's not fired now means they're willing to let him oversee the next phase. Clearly there are no expectations of winning now, what exactly could he do to get himself fired at this point?

[Muzbar]

Seems like the opposite is true:

AK has changed direction (by trading DeRozan, Caruso, and Zach), but still says the same platitudes about playoffs, competitiveness, etc.

So, he hasn't changed direction then? He's just traded for a younger player, smaller contracts, control of their FRPs back and a 2nd round pick.

I suppose that is different than trading the teams future lottery picks for aging vets that lead the team nowhere.

Your sentences don't even make sense. They don't follow each other

Pot calling the kettle black much!?

It makes perfect sense, the direction is still the same, it's just got different faces.

If you put make-up on a pig, it's still a pig.

What doesn't make sense is why I continue to respond to your constant trolling, I stopped for a while, I think maybe I should do so again.

[Guru]

So, he hasn't changed direction then? He's just traded for a younger player, smaller contracts, control of their FRPs back and a 2nd round pick.

I suppose that is different than trading the teams future lottery picks for aging vets that lead the team nowhere.

Your sentences don't even make sense. They don't follow each other

Pot calling the kettle black much!?

It makes perfect sense, the direction is still the same, it's just got different faces.

If you put make-up on a pig, it's still a pig.

What doesn't make sense is why I continue to respond to your constant trolling, I stopped for a while, I think maybe I should do so again.

I have you on block. But I keep seeing it when people quote you. You just whine the entire time and call differences of opinion trolling. You don't add a thing....broken record of discontent.

[jnrjr79]

So, he hasn't changed direction then? He's just traded for a younger player, smaller contracts, control of their FRPs back and a 2nd round pick.

There is no good-faith argument that he hasn't changed direction. His disastrous attempt to build a competitor failed, so he has traded away 3/4 of its main pieces, and it's been widely reported he'll try to move Vooch again this summer.

I think it's less clear that the Bulls are "blowing it up" in the conventional sense, versus trying to shortcut the rebuild with things like the Giddey trade. I'd agree it looks like AK is not teeing things up for what a lot of us probably think is the "right" kind of rebuild - taking bad money, acquiring tons of draft capital, accepting sucking for multiple years, etc.

It seems like he wants to get young players, take a step back on wins and losses, and have a boatload of cap space in 2026. At best, I think he's going after a 2-year mini-tank. I'm not arguing this is good or smart, but it's also not "same old, same old."

I suppose that is different than trading the teams future lottery picks for aging vets that lead the team nowhere.

Yep - he's acknowledged that version 1.0 didn't work and is shifting gears. That's good. But I have no particular faith that 2.0 is going to go any better, other than having some degree of hope that Matas is a dude.

I wish I could share your level of optimism (at least it's not overbearing like some), but I have zero faith in AK to do what is right by the franchise, I don't believe this is a rebuild in anyway, this is a retool. The team has zero foundation pieces to build this team of 8-9 "very good" players that he speaks of.

Version 1.0 hadn't worked for some time, he refused to acknowledge/action that and instead just tried to put some duct tape on it here and there to try and make it look like it was working.

I'm 100% done with AK, new leadership is needed.

Honestly, I don't disagree with anything here.

I think the thrust of my point is AK has (far too late) given up on his initial plan and has shifted to another one. Some people are acting like nothing has changed, and in part that's AK's fault because he's saying the same dumb stuff about competing, but a lot in fact has changed and it's evident the team is heading in a new direction. But, like you, whatever that direction is may well be dumb and bad, as well, and AK has certainly not done much that would justify trusting him to get it right on the second go-around.

[jnrjr79]

Yeah, I don't think you can pivot to talking about rebuilding and playing young guys very easily in the middle of the season. Season started with high expectations for Giddey, Ball, Pat, Smith as new or returning additions, hopeful improvement from Coby, Phillips and Ayo, draft of Matas, plus our two stars. The Bulls were/are a pretty young team and were not even considering tanking, I'm sure.

If Giddey and Pat take just one solid step forward this season, that's a pretty solid team. A 15 pts and 7-8 rebounds Pat Will playing 32 mins with better health alone have made the team look much better. Don't think they would have paid him if they weren't expecting improvement.

I think this team will do poorly down the stretch and probably falls out of the play-in.

But if they don't, and it's because of something like "Matas had a really great 2nd half of the season," that's a preferable way to end up in play-in land than it being predicated on LaVine dragging you there, so there'd be some small solace in that.

[Muzbar]

Your sentences don't even make sense. They don't follow each other

Pot calling the kettle black much!?

It makes perfect sense, the direction is still the same, it's just got different faces.

If you put make-up on a pig, it's still a pig.

What doesn't make sense is why I continue to respond to your constant trolling, I stopped for a while, I think maybe I should do so again.

I have you on block. But I keep seeing it when people quote you. You just whine the entire time and call differences of opinion trolling. You don't add a thing....broken record of discontent.

Oh God thank you!

[Infinity2152]

Yeah, I don't think you can pivot to talking about rebuilding and playing young guys very easily in the middle of the season. Season started with high expectations for Giddey, Ball, Pat, Smith as new or returning additions, hopeful improvement from Coby, Phillips and Ayo, draft of Matas, plus our two stars. The Bulls were/are a pretty young team and were not even considering tanking, I'm sure.

If Giddey and Pat take just one solid step forward this season, that's a pretty solid team. A 15 pts and 7-8 rebounds Pat Will playing 32 mins with better health alone have made the team look much better. Don't think they would have paid him if they weren't expecting improvement.

I think this team will do poorly down the stretch and probably falls out of the play-in.

But if they don't, and it's because of something like "Matas had a really great 2nd half of the season," that's a preferable way to end up in play-in land than it being predicated on LaVine dragging you there, so there'd be some small solace in that.

I agree. Would be bad to not be in the lottery now. But the only way that happens is if the young guys we have now improve and beat veteran NBA teams. So win/win, I'm not as hopeful as most that some rookie will save the team. Most won't be better than Lavine, we need improvement from the guys we have now. Our player development sucks and the new rookie comes right into that.

[Guru]

Yeah, I don't think you can pivot to talking about rebuilding and playing young guys very easily in the middle of the season. Season started with high expectations for Giddey, Ball, Pat, Smith as new or returning additions, hopeful improvement from Coby, Phillips and Ayo, draft of Matas, plus our two stars. The Bulls were/are a pretty young team and were not even considering tanking, I'm sure.

If Giddey and Pat take just one solid step forward this season, that's a pretty solid team. A 15 pts and 7-8 rebounds Pat Will playing 32 mins with better health alone have made the team look much better. Don't think they would have paid him if they weren't expecting improvement.

I think this team will do poorly down the stretch and probably falls out of the play-in.

But if they don't, and it's because of something like "Matas had a really great 2nd half of the season," that's a preferable way to end up in play-in land than it being predicated on LaVine dragging you there, so there'd be some small solace in that.

I agree. Would be bad to not be in the lottery now. But the only way that happens is if the young guys we have now improve and beat veteran NBA teams. So win/win, I'm not as hopeful as most that some rookie will save the team. Most won't be better than Lavine, we need improvement from the guys we have now. Our player development sucks and the new rookie comes right into that.

Im curious if they buyout Carter.

[Muzbar]

There is no good-faith argument that he hasn't changed direction. His disastrous attempt to build a competitor failed, so he has traded away 3/4 of its main pieces, and it's been widely reported he'll try to move Vooch again this summer.

I think it's less clear that the Bulls are "blowing it up" in the conventional sense, versus trying to shortcut the rebuild with things like the Giddey trade. I'd agree it looks like AK is not teeing things up for what a lot of us probably think is the "right" kind of rebuild - taking bad money, acquiring tons of draft capital, accepting sucking for multiple years, etc.

It seems like he wants to get young players, take a step back on wins and losses, and have a boatload of cap space in 2026. At best, I think he's going after a 2-year mini-tank. I'm not arguing this is good or smart, but it's also not "same old, same old."



Yep - he's acknowledged that version 1.0 didn't work and is shifting gears. That's good. But I have no particular faith that 2.0 is going to go any better, other than having some degree of hope that Matas is a dude.

I wish I could share your level of optimism (at least it's not overbearing like some), but I have zero faith in AK to do what is right by the franchise, I don't believe this is a rebuild in anyway, this is a retool. The team has zero foundation pieces to build this team of 8-9 "very good" players that he speaks of.

Version 1.0 hadn't worked for some time, he refused to acknowledge/action that and instead just tried to put some duct tape on it here and there to try and make it look like it was working.

I'm 100% done with AK, new leadership is needed.

Honestly, I don't disagree with anything here.

I think the thrust of my point is AK has (far too late) given up on his initial plan and has shifted to another one. Some people are acting like nothing has changed, and in part that's AK's fault because he's saying the same dumb stuff about competing, but a lot in fact has changed and it's evident the team is heading in a new direction. But, like you, whatever that direction is may well be dumb and bad, as well, and AK has certainly not done much that would justify trusting him to get it right on the second go-around.

Obviously we agree on most things.

I just don't agree that it is as evident as you say regarding a change in direction, the Bulls are still sitting in play-in contention and have done all season long. It's great they have control of their FRP now, but I fear that's a somewhat green light for him to try and make a push rather than just play the young guys more and develop them.

I've been stung, deadline after deadline, AK sat on his hands and failed to fill team needs each time, so I'm not optimistic anything has changed other than removing a hard to move contract.

I get the point you're trying to make, I'm just not seeing it the same way.

[jnrjr79]

I wish I could share your level of optimism (at least it's not overbearing like some), but I have zero faith in AK to do what is right by the franchise, I don't believe this is a rebuild in anyway, this is a retool. The team has zero foundation pieces to build this team of 8-9 "very good" players that he speaks of.

Version 1.0 hadn't worked for some time, he refused to acknowledge/action that and instead just tried to put some duct tape on it here and there to try and make it look like it was working.

I'm 100% done with AK, new leadership is needed.

Honestly, I don't disagree with anything here.

I think the thrust of my point is AK has (far too late) given up on his initial plan and has shifted to another one. Some people are acting like nothing has changed, and in part that's AK's fault because he's saying the same dumb stuff about competing, but a lot in fact has changed and it's evident the team is heading in a new direction. But, like you, whatever that direction is may well be dumb and bad, as well, and AK has certainly not done much that would justify trusting him to get it right on the second go-around.

Obviously we agree on most things.

I just don't agree that it is as evident as you say regarding a change in direction, the Bulls are still sitting in play-in contention and have done all season long. It's great they have control of their FRP now, but I fear that's a somewhat green light for him to try and make a push rather than just play the young guys more and develop them.

I've been stung, deadline after deadline, AK sat on his hands and failed to fill team needs each time, so I'm not optimistic anything has changed other than removing a hard to move contract.

I get the point you're trying to make, I'm just not seeing it the same way.

The bolded is something I have a real concern about, too. AK getting the protections removed gives him more license to be "competitive" or whatever, since he won't be criticized for outright losing the pick.

As to the rest of this - it's inspiring something that I think could make a good thread, so I think I'll do that...