AKME stands pat

[SalmonsSuperfan]

- Jerry Krause was employed by the bulls for about 17 years
- John Paxson was employed as GM/VP for about 18 years
- Karnisovas has been in the job only 5 years
- Based on history of the Reinsdorfs, he will be employed for another 12-13 years, which will take us 2037.
- Michael Reinsdorf is not likely going anywhere, so expect the cycle to continue for another couple generations.

The cycle of dumbness.

Some on reddit commented this. I will just quote it and put in spoiler, dont want give mods any excuse.

Spoiler:

thraser11 204 points 19 hours ago
If this were the 1800s, it'd be socially acceptable to violently overthrow the Reinsdorf family.

I never saw comments like that during GarPax years, but seems Bulls fans had it enough.

I don't know about violence, but I will make the point that the city should municipalize the Bulls and all the other teams. Maybe the state of Illinois. What are the owners actually doing? Impeding the sport, if anything. That profit could be a much needed source of revenue for the city/state. No more raising property taxes and the price of cigarettes, we've got the Bears now and also they're staying in Soldier Field and no they're not getting a dome.
Is there a legal process for this? Probably. If you can do it with ComEd, why not the Cubs? Sport is critical infrastructure. Also who cares? Remember meigs field? just do it anyway, there aren't consequences.

[League Circles]

The cycle of dumbness.

Some on reddit commented this. I will just quote it and put in spoiler, dont want give mods any excuse.

Spoiler:

thraser11 204 points 19 hours ago
If this were the 1800s, it'd be socially acceptable to violently overthrow the Reinsdorf family.

I never saw comments like that during GarPax years, but seems Bulls fans had it enough.

I don't know about violence, but I will make the point that the city should municipalize the Bulls and all the other teams. Maybe the state of Illinois. What are the owners actually doing? Impeding the sport, if anything. That profit could be a much needed source of revenue for the city/state. No more raising property taxes and the price of cigarettes, we've got the Bears now and also they're staying in Soldier Field and no they're not getting a dome.
Is there a legal process for this? Probably. If you can do it with ComEd, why not the Cubs? Sport is critical infrastructure. Also who cares? Remember meigs field? just do it anyway, there aren't consequences.

Sports are the exact opposite of critical infrastructure lol. It's meaningless entertainment. That's the difference.

If they could/should take control of the Bulls, why not all the other profitable businesses in the state?

[Guru]

People are mad that a leader of a billion-dollar company didn't come out and say they were trying to lose on purpose and didn't give away his assets for pennies on the dollar.

this is why groupthink is dangerous.

[Wingy]

Not literally with zero transactions, but he ‘stood pat’ in that he continued…

- Half measures, keeping enough talent to miss out on top odds at another massive young talent (Wemby before, now Flagg)
- eyeing the playin. Fine…keep that crap to yourself though, so tone deaf…fans are sick of that as your goal
- Keeping guys as their value continues to decrease towards lowest value

The worst, evident part where he stood pat?

No signs of recognition or growth in his own role.

[boozapalooza]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

This is why the Bulls are ok standing pat. I also don’t understand why other big market teams don’t make larger stadiums. Seems like an obvious cash cow.

[_txchilibowl_]

And if the only trades available were ones that required to give up assets to dump contracts you guys would be doubly losing your s***....

I'm fairly certain most of you have no idea what you're talking about. Neither do I. But that's kind of the point.

[HomoSapien]

Read on Twitter

I guess mediocrity it is

I suppose he's talking about the 04 Detroit Pistons model. The only issue is, how many very good players do we currently have?

That pistons team has 2 HoF in the starting five and the other 3 were great players. I wouldnt even say it was 9-10 players on that team, really like 6-7.

To answer your question, we have MAYBE two really good players depending on views on Vooch and Coby? It's depressing as a fan when you realize your favorite team is run, seemingly top down, by idiots. After Virginia passed away I saw people asking how old Jerry is lmfao.

Billups is only in the HOF because they won a championship. If you erase that season, I don't see how he'd make it. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that they had zero franchise players. We can all guess what AKME means by "very good", but to me it probably falls into the borderline All-Star category. Wallace was sort of in a category of his own, but sort of closer to that Rodman/Noah mold of a building block.

It's easy to forget how deep that Pistons team was. Outside of their starting five they had:

Mehmet Okur who left and immediately became a bonafide starter.
Corliss Williamson who was just two seasons removed from winning 6th Man of the Year.
Lindsey Hunter who was older at this point, but not far removed from being their starting point guard.
Mike James was a midseason addition, and had started every game for the Celtics before joining them.

You also had Elden Campbell rounding out the roster in the twilight of his career, but still not far removed from being a starter.

Again, very good is subjective but I consider that team to easily be 9 deep, with several of those bench players being starter quality.

[BigUps]

We have no idea what was offered, but it certaily feels like AKME mismanaged the deadline pretty poorly. Losing should be the goal. We can still lose with Vuc on the roster, but man, we just need to lose. That's the thing. Kick the can down the road on some of the trades, fine, but don't kick the can down the road on losing. WE MUST LOSE. That's the key.

[Wingy]

We have no idea what was offered, but it certaily feels like AKME mismanaged the deadline pretty poorly. Losing should be the goal. We can still lose with Vuc on the roster, but man, we just need to lose. That's the thing. Kick the can down the road on some of the trades, fine, but don't kick the can down the road on losing. WE MUST LOSE. That's the key.

Kicking the can down the road on trades is likely to lead to more wins though.

AK shows zero recognition that you need to throw your hat in the ring full force when top end talents are available. AK just tiptoes part way, per usual.

No improvement in the way he operates. No growth. Standing pat. Again.

[jnrjr79]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

This is why the Bulls are ok standing pat. I also don’t understand why other big market teams don’t make larger stadiums. Seems like an obvious cash cow.

Yep - list doesn’t mean anything other than “the Chicago Bulls play in the largest stadium in the NBA, in a huge market, without a lot of other winter activities.”

[Jcool0]

My conspiracy theory here is the front office must be cooperating more with Cowley these days, because he's rather quickly started posting stuff defending AK.

He said on CHGO Bulls that if his sources screw him aka nothing much happens over the summer that the gloves will come off and he will treat AK like late stage Gar/Pax.

That podcast should be called "Gottleib yelling"

It's complete garbage.

Funny you are on a message board of people always complaining and yelling.... Yet this is a problem. Also Gottlieb never yells so I think you are confusing people.

[Guru]

He said on CHGO Bulls that if his sources screw him aka nothing much happens over the summer that the gloves will come off and he will treat AK like late stage Gar/Pax.

That podcast should be called "Gottleib yelling"

It's complete garbage.

Funny you are on a message board of people always complaining and yelling.... Yet this is a problem. Also Gottlieb never yells so I think you are confusing people.

Who is the guy with the dumb mustache?

[kodo]

This is why the Bulls are ok standing pat. I also don’t understand why other big market teams don’t make larger stadiums. Seems like an obvious cash cow.

They don't fill them. United Center capacity isn't an outlier. Little Caesar's (Pistons) is a new facility and has a capacity of 20,500. It averages around 18k, and the Pistons are doing very well this year.

They can make a 30k stadium in a random NBA city, won't sell out. 30k stadium in Chicago might.

Chicago Bulls are a cash cow that isn't easily replicated, probably still an after effect from the Jordan years. I have friends that come in from all over the world and they don't give a crap about most Chicago touristy things but they want to see a Bulls & Cubs game.

[kodo]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-grades-for-every-team-lakers-spurs-ace-moves-mavericks-among-three-teams-with-an-f/

Chicago Bulls: F

The press conference Bulls lead executive Arturas Karnisovas had after Thursday's deadline was about as distressing a public address as any NBA executive has delivered in recent memory. This team has no plan whatsoever. Consider the following quote: "There's different structures that you can try to get to a championship," Karnisovas said. "There's 2-3 star players and then a lot of role players or you can build it as 9-10 very good players." The premise is almost entirely faulty, but I suppose the 2004 Pistons exist, and the restricting CBA might open doors for teams to try winning with depth over star power. Fine. But here's the problem: the Bulls don't have nine or 10 very good players. They don't have two or three very good players either. Karnisovas set the standard of a championship in that quote. The Bulls, right now, do not have a single player on their roster who would have started for either team that played in the 2024 NBA Finals. The only thing that should matter to this franchise right now is talent acquisition. The first step in acquiring talent is acquiring the assets used to land that talent. So why is Nikola Vucevic still on the team? Or Lonzo Ball? Or Coby White? These are players that teams with two or three stars, or those that aim to build around nine or 10 players instead, might have been able to use. Instead, they're hanging around on a Bulls team going nowhere for reasons that remain unclear, hurting Chicago's draft pick in the process. Speaking of Chicago's draft pick, it was the only asset of value the Bulls got back in the LaVine trade. The only reason they needed to trade for that top-eight protected pick back was because they didn't tank well enough to keep it in the first place, which either suggests that they were incapable of executing a proper rebuilding plan, or more likely, they wanted control of their pick either way so they could chase the Play-In in peace. Karnisovas all but admitted that, saying that sacrificing draft position for a shot at the postseason is "worth it to me." Whether it's Karnisovas pulling the strings or the Reinsdorf family, there is just no reason to trust the people making decisions here.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikaibruce/2025/02/07/it-is-time-for-the-chicago-bulls-to-make-a-change/

Ultimately, the frustration with the front office stems from a lack of choosing a direction for the team, and pointlessly aiming for play-in berths and low-seed playoff berths. Karnišovas stated “I was saying if this young nucleus can get you to the play-in and playoffs, I think it’s going to be growth and development. That's worth it for me.”. A statement like this shows the front office has not decided on a direction, and it puts Chicago in a confusing situation, which can be likened to purgatory. This front office has been given ample time and opportunity to build this team, and choose a direction for this team, but with the recent events that have unfolded this past deadline, perhaps it’s time for ownership to begin looking for a change in front office leadership.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-winners-losers-lakers-warriors-mavericks/f7e1f5dff68078e0b174eb7f

Loser: Bulls
The Bulls were more active than usual, making a deadline trade for the first time since 2021. It was the wrong trade, though.

There was interest in several of their players. They took in a bad return for their best one in Zach LaVine and did the complete opposite of what I had recommended for them last week.

Bulls went a perfect 0/6 on my recommendations for them:

❌Don't panic about the pick owed to Spurs
❌Keep Zach LaVine
❌Trade Vooch for anything
❌Trade Coby White (seven teams were interested)
❌Trade Ayo Dosunmu
❌Trade Lonzo Ball (instead they extended him)

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/what-are-the-bulls-doing-another-trade-deadline-passes-with-chicago-failing-to-commit-to-a-full-rebuild/

What are the Bulls doing? Another trade deadline passes with Chicago failing to commit to a full rebuild
...
It's truly mind-boggling that the Bulls, who exist in the third-largest market in the country, and have such a storied history, are just fine with being mediocre.
...
But Karnisovas also spent a portion of his opening statement talking about the importance of the next 30 games and how getting to the play-in and playoffs is "achievable" and how this group of guys are "capable of getting there."
...
You'd be hard pressed to find a single championship team in the last 25 years that didn't have a bonafide superstar on it. Maybe the 2004 Detroit Pistons are the outlier, but no one in today's NBA is looking at the Detroit team and saying "hmm, yes that's the model for success." This league deals in star power, and if you lack it, you're actively trying to get it. Apparently, unless you're the Chicago Bulls.

[jnrjr79]

This is why the Bulls are ok standing pat. I also don’t understand why other big market teams don’t make larger stadiums. Seems like an obvious cash cow.

They don't fill them. United Center isn't the highest capacity stadium in the NBA.
Little Caesar's (Pistons) is a new facility and has a capacity of 20,500. It averages around 18k, and the Pistons are doing very well this year.

They can make a 30k stadium in a random NBA city, won't sell out. 30k stadium in Chicago might.

Chicago Bulls are a cash cow that isn't easily replicated, probably still an after effect from the Jordan years. I have friends that come in from all over the world and they don't give a crap about most Chicago touristy things but they want to see a Bulls & Cubs game.

Yeah, Chicago has a ton of non-replicable things that help attendance:

1) huge market, but only 1 team
2) huge stadium
3) cold winters, but no great natural winter activities (no ski/snowboard scene like Denver or Salt Lake, etc.)
4) big business community that uses tix for marketing purposes
5) destination for tourist basketball as a result of the dynasty years

Maybe I’m missing others?

I know for myself, I used to have season tickets, and no longer do for a bunch of reasons, but I still enjoy going to a game or two every year. I also have kids and am not going to do some principled Bulls boycott because I like basketball and want to be able to expose them to it as they are growing up.

[Jcool0]

I suppose he's talking about the 04 Detroit Pistons model. The only issue is, how many very good players do we currently have?

That pistons team has 2 HoF in the starting five and the other 3 were great players. I wouldnt even say it was 9-10 players on that team, really like 6-7.

To answer your question, we have MAYBE two really good players depending on views on Vooch and Coby? It's depressing as a fan when you realize your favorite team is run, seemingly top down, by idiots. After Virginia passed away I saw people asking how old Jerry is lmfao.

Billups is only in the HOF because they won a championship. If you erase that season, I don't see how he'd make it. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that they had zero franchise players.

Billups was a Finals MVP, a 5x All Star, a 2x All Defensive, 3x All NBA player and finished top 12 in MVP votes 4x. He was more then just winning a title.

[HomoSapien]

That pistons team has 2 HoF in the starting five and the other 3 were great players. I wouldnt even say it was 9-10 players on that team, really like 6-7.

To answer your question, we have MAYBE two really good players depending on views on Vooch and Coby? It's depressing as a fan when you realize your favorite team is run, seemingly top down, by idiots. After Virginia passed away I saw people asking how old Jerry is lmfao.

Billups is only in the HOF because they won a championship. If you erase that season, I don't see how he'd make it. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that they had zero franchise players.

Billups was a Finals MVP, a 5x All Star, a 2x All Defensive, 3x All NBA player and finished top 12 in MVP votes 4x. He was more then just winning a title.

Again, if you erase that championship season it takes away a lot of prestige from his resume, including the Finals MVP. Don't get me wrong, he was a very good player but before he found his place in Detroit he was headed down a journeyman path and wasn't viewed as a franchise player. He obviously was a major reason for their success, but similarly his success was also - to an extent- the league's way of recognizing and rewarding Detroit's success.

[evilboy]

Billups is only in the HOF because they won a championship. If you erase that season, I don't see how he'd make it. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that they had zero franchise players.

Billups was a Finals MVP, a 5x All Star, a 2x All Defensive, 3x All NBA player and finished top 12 in MVP votes 4x. He was more then just winning a title.

Again, if you erase that championship season it takes away a lot of prestige from his resume, including the Finals MVP. Don't get me wrong, he was a very good player but before he found his place in Detroit he was headed down a journeyman path and wasn't viewed as a franchise player. He obviously was a major reason for their success, but similarly his success was also - to an extent- the league's way of recognizing and rewarding Detroit's success.

Haha. C'mon buddy. You can't erase NBA championships. You can't erase Finals MVPs. In the words of Herm Edwards, "You Play To Win The Game". The fact that we still remember who won in 2004 (21 years ago) means Herm was preaching the gospel.

[Indomitable]

The pressser he did with CHI media yesterday was one of the roughest things i've ever watched. I actually wanted a reporter to ask him

"Arutras are you aware that the lower you finish in standings the higher your lottery odds are/that's how the draft works?"

Seriously, check it out and watch the whole thing if you have 20 minutes. We don't have to wonder anymore, he confirmed now fewer than 10 times that there is no plan. He's in total wait and see move and does not seem to understand that he's drastically hurting what few current assets we have and that him showing no urgency hurts us more and more.

This has officially taken a pretty sad turn. Obviously rooting for sports teams we like and having them lose sucks, but the level of incompetence shown by this man for this position is pretty unrivaled in my time of viewing pro sports. I'm angry at the bulls, but i feel sad for him. He's in SO over his head and if he had a boss who cared about anything other than the bottom line he woulda been replaced awhile ago but he's forced to go out there and look like an uneducated imbecile time and time again. He clearly has a horrible reputation league wide on top of that and i doubt that's because he's unpleasant to deal with but simply because he's a total waste of time to talk to because he doesn't have a clue what's going on or how things in the modern NBA work.

He repeatedly said he like the position we're in and that Billy/the team did a great job the first part of the season. And i don't think that's BS team speak, i think he actually believes that. Happy he's getting paid what he's getting paid because obviously once this is over the most he'll ever be is a scout again. I think Cowleys a total punk but if you had put him, me, or most of the posters here in charge of the team the last 3 seasons we'd seriously have a much better future outlook and i'm not being hyperbolic at all. As always, this looks so horrible for the Reinsdorfs and i don't understand how the can take such little personal pride in something that matters so much to so many people. At a certain point in time don't you think Michael would care about his dignity at all? For almost a decade now we've been totally irrelevant and well respected members of media call us out weekly for being a clown show. I guess money solves pretty much everything for a lota people because even at the laziest moments in my life i'd never be OK with putting my name on this **** of a job for everyone to see. It's embarrassing

Watch on YouTube

Self respect is dead

[dice]

Billups was a Finals MVP, a 5x All Star, a 2x All Defensive, 3x All NBA player and finished top 12 in MVP votes 4x. He was more then just winning a title.

Again, if you erase that championship season it takes away a lot of prestige from his resume, including the Finals MVP. Don't get me wrong, he was a very good player but before he found his place in Detroit he was headed down a journeyman path and wasn't viewed as a franchise player. He obviously was a major reason for their success, but similarly his success was also - to an extent- the league's way of recognizing and rewarding Detroit's success.

Haha. C'mon buddy. You can't erase NBA championships. You can't erase Finals MVPs. In the words of Herm Edwards, "You Play To Win The Game". The fact that we still remember who won in 2004 (21 years ago) means Herm was preaching the gospel.

the point is that if he didn't happen to play on a title team, he's simply an excellent player. the team success GOT him many of those individual accolades

billups played for 4 teams in 5 pedestrian seasons prior to landing in detroit. wasn't even a full-time starter! absolutely nobody would have predicted him becoming an all-star, let alone a hall of famer, when he arrived in detroit. he played 6 full seasons there and then 3 in denver, w/ 3 more injury-plagued seasons to end his career. to be objective, here were his league-wide VORP rankings in the prime years:

detroit (age 26-31):

20th
17th (FMVP)
18th
8th (MVP-5, AS)
15th (MVP-11, AS)
4th (AS)

denver (age 32-34):

18th (MVP-6, AS)
19th (MVP-12, AS)
36th

he frankly probably deserved more all-star nods than he got, but the MVP consideration he got was largely circumstantial as best player/leader on an excellent team. the title earns him HOF deservedly IMO, but i wouldn't say he was a great player. 2nd team all-nba once, 3rd team twice