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bstein14 wrote:Hunter the 5th best starter on the Cavs, but was the 2nd best starter on the Hawks. As others have mentioned, its kind of a crazy move for Atlanta considering they don't own their own pick this year.
Okoro most likely steps out of bounds in either instance of being challenged to do something offensively lolyoyoboy wrote:cgf wrote:yoyoboy wrote:People bringing up Hunter’s weaknesses as a defender and playmaker need to consider just how dire the Cavs’ wing situation was. Hunter isn’t amazing, but he’s a good spot up three point shooter and he’s a big wing. Considering Dean Wade can never be relied upon to be healthy and Okoro lacks size plus can sometimes be played off the floor due to his offense, he’s a huge upgrade for us from having to oftentimes throw LeVert, Mitchell, Niang, and Strus at big wings like Tatum and Brown.
I just think the odds are higher that we'll be able to pick on Hunter defensively than Wade will be injured AND Okoro will be unplayable offensively. Hunter's bigger than Okoro, but he's a worse defender at every position. He's not a downgrade from Levert, so I'm not saying the move made you worse, but I'd rather you have him out there with your core 4 than Wade / Okoro.
I'm a big Wade guy, so I do think when healthy he's better than Hunter because of how awesome he is as a defender/rebounder. But he is never healthy. It's the same story every year, so it's far more likely come playoffs Hunter will be there closing games with the other four guys because Wade will either be out or he'll have recently returned from an injury and he needs more reps to return to form.
I'm just not high on Okoro. He's a good defender but he's a very limited one. He's just too small to put against guys above 6'5, as they shoot over his contests fairly easily, and he provides nothing in terms of rebounding, help rim protection, or being a threat in the passing lanes. Come playoffs, other teams will be daring him to try to make a play with the ball and they'll be willing to sag off him from the corner, and he won't be able to consistently make the defense pay in either of those scenarios.
jayu70 wrote:bstein14 wrote:Hunter the 5th best starter on the Cavs, but was the 2nd best starter on the Hawks. As others have mentioned, its kind of a crazy move for Atlanta considering they don't own their own pick this year.
The 2nd best starter on the Hawks was Jalen Johnson until he got injured. Hunter has been playing off the bench for most of the season.
yoyoboy wrote:cgf wrote:yoyoboy wrote:People bringing up Hunter’s weaknesses as a defender and playmaker need to consider just how dire the Cavs’ wing situation was. Hunter isn’t amazing, but he’s a good spot up three point shooter and he’s a big wing. Considering Dean Wade can never be relied upon to be healthy and Okoro lacks size plus can sometimes be played off the floor due to his offense, he’s a huge upgrade for us from having to oftentimes throw LeVert, Mitchell, Niang, and Strus at big wings like Tatum and Brown.
I just think the odds are higher that we'll be able to pick on Hunter defensively than Wade will be injured AND Okoro will be unplayable offensively. Hunter's bigger than Okoro, but he's a worse defender at every position. He's not a downgrade from Levert, so I'm not saying the move made you worse, but I'd rather you have him out there with your core 4 than Wade / Okoro.
I'm a big Wade guy, so I do think when healthy he's better than Hunter because of how awesome he is as a defender/rebounder. But he is never healthy. It's the same story every year, so it's far more likely come playoffs Hunter will be there closing games with the other four guys because Wade will either be out or he'll have recently returned from an injury and he needs more reps to return to form.
I'm just not high on Okoro. He's a good defender but he's a very limited one. He's just too small to put against guys above 6'5, as they shoot over his contests fairly easily, and he provides nothing in terms of rebounding, help rim protection, or being a threat in the passing lanes. Come playoffs, other teams will be daring him to try to make a play with the ball and they'll be willing to sag off him from the corner, and he won't be able to consistently make the defense pay in either of those scenarios.
Capn'O wrote:We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
JujitsuFlip wrote:Okoro most likely steps out of bounds in either instance of being challenged to do something offensively lolyoyoboy wrote:cgf wrote:
I just think the odds are higher that we'll be able to pick on Hunter defensively than Wade will be injured AND Okoro will be unplayable offensively. Hunter's bigger than Okoro, but he's a worse defender at every position. He's not a downgrade from Levert, so I'm not saying the move made you worse, but I'd rather you have him out there with your core 4 than Wade / Okoro.
I'm a big Wade guy, so I do think when healthy he's better than Hunter because of how awesome he is as a defender/rebounder. But he is never healthy. It's the same story every year, so it's far more likely come playoffs Hunter will be there closing games with the other four guys because Wade will either be out or he'll have recently returned from an injury and he needs more reps to return to form.
I'm just not high on Okoro. He's a good defender but he's a very limited one. He's just too small to put against guys above 6'5, as they shoot over his contests fairly easily, and he provides nothing in terms of rebounding, help rim protection, or being a threat in the passing lanes. Come playoffs, other teams will be daring him to try to make a play with the ball and they'll be willing to sag off him from the corner, and he won't be able to consistently make the defense pay in either of those scenarios.
Capn'O wrote:We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
BlazersBroncos wrote:This is a really good deal for CLE. Those swaps are unlikely to be used as the CLE core is really good and locked up. SRP are SRP and both outgoing guys are nowhere near as good as Hunter.
G - Darius Garland / Donovan Mitchell / Ty Jerome / Craig Porter JR
G - Donovan Mitchell / Max Strus / Sam Merrill / Isaac Okoro
F - De'Andre Hunter / Max Strus / Isaac Okoro / Jaylon Tyson
F - Even Mobley / Dean Wade / De'Andre Hunter / Isaac Okoro
C - Jarrett Allen / Evan Mobley / Tristan Thompson / Dean Wade
That Top-7 is really legit.
Okoro's defense is overrated.cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Okoro most likely steps out of bounds in either instance of being challenged to do something offensively lolyoyoboy wrote:I'm a big Wade guy, so I do think when healthy he's better than Hunter because of how awesome he is as a defender/rebounder. But he is never healthy. It's the same story every year, so it's far more likely come playoffs Hunter will be there closing games with the other four guys because Wade will either be out or he'll have recently returned from an injury and he needs more reps to return to form.
I'm just not high on Okoro. He's a good defender but he's a very limited one. He's just too small to put against guys above 6'5, as they shoot over his contests fairly easily, and he provides nothing in terms of rebounding, help rim protection, or being a threat in the passing lanes. Come playoffs, other teams will be daring him to try to make a play with the ball and they'll be willing to sag off him from the corner, and he won't be able to consistently make the defense pay in either of those scenarios.
lol fair enough. But at least he'd make Brunson / Haliburton / Brown work for their buckets on the other end. With Hunter as the 5th guy Spida would be your best perimeter defender; which is asking a lot of those twin towers.
JujitsuFlip wrote:Okoro's defense is overrated.cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Okoro most likely steps out of bounds in either instance of being challenged to do something offensively lol
lol fair enough. But at least he'd make Brunson / Haliburton / Brown work for their buckets on the other end. With Hunter as the 5th guy Spida would be your best perimeter defender; which is asking a lot of those twin towers.
Sure against like one archetype he can lock them up. But guys bigger than him like Banchero and Franz or Tatum and Brown they just shoot over top of him and then you're playing 4 on 5 at the other end. Guys quicker than him like Brunson and Trae, they can't run around him necessarily but he's so blocky and they're crafty ball handlers, they get stepbacks so easy, maybe even throw Derrick White into that class.
It is just super specific who Okoro is good against, with his shoulder messed up he is going to refuse to shoot from 3 again. I am all way out on him, tbh.
The question really is do i prefer Hunter over Niang in our zone defense and it is a resounding yes.
He looked like BBQ chicken in the Celtics clip shared in man to man but he was also put on an island. Kenny has made every single guy on this team look better, on both ends. I expect him to do the same for Hunter and whatever 2 buyout guys we sign.
Capn'O wrote:We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
Well, we couldn't bc Allen had his ribs broken and we refuse to get a backup center, so Mobley was forced to play 5 in both of those 2024 playoff series. Our options were LeVert, Niang, geriatric Marcus Morris, or Okoro. Wade was on a minutes restriction once he returned halfway through the Celtics series, missed the entire Magic series.cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Okoro's defense is overrated.cgf wrote:
lol fair enough. But at least he'd make Brunson / Haliburton / Brown work for their buckets on the other end. With Hunter as the 5th guy Spida would be your best perimeter defender; which is asking a lot of those twin towers.
Sure against like one archetype he can lock them up. But guys bigger than him like Banchero and Franz or Tatum and Brown they just shoot over top of him and then you're playing 4 on 5 at the other end. Guys quicker than him like Brunson and Trae, they can't run around him necessarily but he's so blocky and they're crafty ball handlers, they get stepbacks so easy, maybe even throw Derrick White into that class.
It is just super specific who Okoro is good against, with his shoulder messed up he is going to refuse to shoot from 3 again. I am all way out on him, tbh.
The question really is do i prefer Hunter over Niang in our zone defense and it is a resounding yes.
He looked like BBQ chicken in the Celtics clip shared in man to man but he was also put on an island. Kenny has made every single guy on this team look better, on both ends. I expect him to do the same for Hunter and whatever 2 buyout guys we sign.
Haven't looked at the #s, but just anecdotally I feel like Okoro has been one of the better Brunson defenders alongside Suggs
He shouldn't be checking Paolo or Tatum, but that's what you have Mobley for.
JujitsuFlip wrote:Well, we couldn't bc Allen had his ribs broken and we refuse to get a backup center, so Mobley was forced to play 5 in both of those 2024 playoff series. Our options were LeVert, Niang, geriatric Marcus Morris, or Okoro. Wade was on a minutes restriction once he returned halfway through the Celtics series, missed the entire Magic series.cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Okoro's defense is overrated.
Sure against like one archetype he can lock them up. But guys bigger than him like Banchero and Franz or Tatum and Brown they just shoot over top of him and then you're playing 4 on 5 at the other end. Guys quicker than him like Brunson and Trae, they can't run around him necessarily but he's so blocky and they're crafty ball handlers, they get stepbacks so easy, maybe even throw Derrick White into that class.
It is just super specific who Okoro is good against, with his shoulder messed up he is going to refuse to shoot from 3 again. I am all way out on him, tbh.
The question really is do i prefer Hunter over Niang in our zone defense and it is a resounding yes.
He looked like BBQ chicken in the Celtics clip shared in man to man but he was also put on an island. Kenny has made every single guy on this team look better, on both ends. I expect him to do the same for Hunter and whatever 2 buyout guys we sign.
Haven't looked at the #s, but just anecdotally I feel like Okoro has been one of the better Brunson defenders alongside Suggs
He shouldn't be checking Paolo or Tatum, but that's what you have Mobley for.
Idk the numbers either but everybody raves about Okoro being this awesome POA defender yet the dude is so limited in who he can even be put on. When coupled with his offensive limitations, its no wonder they traded for Hunter and are linked to be interested in Ben Simmons once he's bought out.
Capn'O wrote:We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Well, we couldn't bc Allen had his ribs broken and we refuse to get a backup center, so Mobley was forced to play 5 in both of those 2024 playoff series. Our options were LeVert, Niang, geriatric Marcus Morris, or Okoro. Wade was on a minutes restriction once he returned halfway through the Celtics series, missed the entire Magic series.cgf wrote:
Haven't looked at the #s, but just anecdotally I feel like Okoro has been one of the better Brunson defenders alongside Suggs
He shouldn't be checking Paolo or Tatum, but that's what you have Mobley for.
Idk the numbers either but everybody raves about Okoro being this awesome POA defender yet the dude is so limited in who he can even be put on. When coupled with his offensive limitations, its no wonder they traded for Hunter and are linked to be interested in Ben Simmons once he's bought out.
Yeah that’s a weird one to me. Like I get running Mobley at the 5 when Allen is out, but getting a third rim protector feels like it would’ve helped a lot more than swapping levert & niang for hunter.
You’ve seen more of Okoro than me, but I like what I’ve seen of him when he’s hitting shots. Even on someone who can just shoot over him I’d trust him more than I do Hunter
JujitsuFlip wrote:cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Well, we couldn't bc Allen had his ribs broken and we refuse to get a backup center, so Mobley was forced to play 5 in both of those 2024 playoff series. Our options were LeVert, Niang, geriatric Marcus Morris, or Okoro. Wade was on a minutes restriction once he returned halfway through the Celtics series, missed the entire Magic series.
Idk the numbers either but everybody raves about Okoro being this awesome POA defender yet the dude is so limited in who he can even be put on. When coupled with his offensive limitations, its no wonder they traded for Hunter and are linked to be interested in Ben Simmons once he's bought out.
Yeah that’s a weird one to me. Like I get running Mobley at the 5 when Allen is out, but getting a third rim protector feels like it would’ve helped a lot more than swapping levert & niang for hunter.
You’ve seen more of Okoro than me, but I like what I’ve seen of him when he’s hitting shots. Even on someone who can just shoot over him I’d trust him more than I do Hunter
We have 2 open roster spots, so there's no point to get a $20+ million 3rd big who might play 5-10 minutes per game.
We've not had a SF who is 6'8" since LeBron went to the Lakers in July 2018, that hole needed filled.
Niang had to go because Kenny was dead set on him playing WAY too much. Idc how bad Hunter is on defense it absolutely has to be better than Niang. Ninag's lack of agility and jumping ability was absolutely killing us against the Celtics and Thunder, they just targeted him, every single time. Same way the Magic did in that series last year. That guy is SO bad. When he isn't hitting his shots, he's literally unplayable.
Also, Ty Jerome's emergence as the additional bench ball handler made LeVert expandable, especially once he lost his shooting efficiency, with the wrist injury.
Capn'O wrote:We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
Yeah, i just don't rate him that low. I'm taking the wait and see approach. If he's as bad as Merrill and Niang on defense, he has a moveable contract, so no worries.cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:cgf wrote:
Yeah that’s a weird one to me. Like I get running Mobley at the 5 when Allen is out, but getting a third rim protector feels like it would’ve helped a lot more than swapping levert & niang for hunter.
You’ve seen more of Okoro than me, but I like what I’ve seen of him when he’s hitting shots. Even on someone who can just shoot over him I’d trust him more than I do Hunter
We have 2 open roster spots, so there's no point to get a $20+ million 3rd big who might play 5-10 minutes per game.
We've not had a SF who is 6'8" since LeBron went to the Lakers in July 2018, that hole needed filled.
Niang had to go because Kenny was dead set on him playing WAY too much. Idc how bad Hunter is on defense it absolutely has to be better than Niang. Ninag's lack of agility and jumping ability was absolutely killing us against the Celtics and Thunder, they just targeted him, every single time. Same way the Magic did in that series last year. That guy is SO bad. When he isn't hitting his shots, he's literally unplayable.
Also, Ty Jerome's emergence as the additional bench ball handler made LeVert expandable, especially once he lost his shooting efficiency, with the wrist injury.
You could've gotten someone like Timelord to play low minutes to keep JA fresher and be there as hedge in case he gets hurt again. Definitely a luxury, but one that IMO would've made you scarier than getting a taller Merrill.
I'm exaggerating, but I just don't rate Hunter much despite his height. It's not like Wade who uses that size well AND can shoot; if JAfro & Wade are out again, meaning Mobley can't lock up Tatum / Banchero / Giannis because he has to protect the rim, then they are going to feast even with Hunter being 6'8".
...and I watched a lot of Atlanta last season, making me curious about them this year with DD coming in and DJM no longer dragging them down. So this isn't just a "I don't like his metrics" thing, he's just been extremely disappointing to watch. But maybe the change of scenery and new coaching staff gets him to tap into the player he looked like he could be in college
JujitsuFlip wrote:Yeah, i just don't rate him that low. I'm taking the wait and see approach. If he's as bad as Merrill and Niang on defense, he has a moveable contract, so no worries.cgf wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:We have 2 open roster spots, so there's no point to get a $20+ million 3rd big who might play 5-10 minutes per game.
We've not had a SF who is 6'8" since LeBron went to the Lakers in July 2018, that hole needed filled.
Niang had to go because Kenny was dead set on him playing WAY too much. Idc how bad Hunter is on defense it absolutely has to be better than Niang. Ninag's lack of agility and jumping ability was absolutely killing us against the Celtics and Thunder, they just targeted him, every single time. Same way the Magic did in that series last year. That guy is SO bad. When he isn't hitting his shots, he's literally unplayable.
Also, Ty Jerome's emergence as the additional bench ball handler made LeVert expandable, especially once he lost his shooting efficiency, with the wrist injury.
You could've gotten someone like Timelord to play low minutes to keep JA fresher and be there as hedge in case he gets hurt again. Definitely a luxury, but one that IMO would've made you scarier than getting a taller Merrill.
I'm exaggerating, but I just don't rate Hunter much despite his height. It's not like Wade who uses that size well AND can shoot; if JAfro & Wade are out again, meaning Mobley can't lock up Tatum / Banchero / Giannis because he has to protect the rim, then they are going to feast even with Hunter being 6'8".
...and I watched a lot of Atlanta last season, making me curious about them this year with DD coming in and DJM no longer dragging them down. So this isn't just a "I don't like his metrics" thing, he's just been extremely disappointing to watch. But maybe the change of scenery and new coaching staff gets him to tap into the player he looked like he could be in college
Capn'O wrote:We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
GeorgeMarcus wrote:BlazersBroncos wrote:This is a really good deal for CLE. Those swaps are unlikely to be used as the CLE core is really good and locked up. SRP are SRP and both outgoing guys are nowhere near as good as Hunter.
G - Darius Garland / Donovan Mitchell / Ty Jerome / Craig Porter JR
G - Donovan Mitchell / Max Strus / Sam Merrill / Isaac Okoro
F - De'Andre Hunter / Max Strus / Isaac Okoro / Jaylon Tyson
F - Even Mobley / Dean Wade / De'Andre Hunter / Isaac Okoro
C - Jarrett Allen / Evan Mobley / Tristan Thompson / Dean Wade
That Top-7 is really legit.
I'd even argue top 8 with Okoro who is pretty underrated IMO. Really nice rotation. Probably the most complete team in the league.
DowJones wrote:I think this was a solid move for Cleveland, but there’s also a scenario where the trade ends up being insignificant. Hunter isn’t quite the prototypical 3-and-D player. His defense in Atlanta was generally average to below average, and he has a tendency to stop the ball, much like a 6'8" version of LeVert. However, I do see potential for Hunter to improve defensively, similar to LeVert’s growth. I also think playing in Cleveland’s more fluid offense could encourage him to move the ball more.
Regardless, Koby Altman deserves a lot of credit for the job he’s done. He’s built an outstanding roster in a small market with just three years of top-5 picks, which were #3, #5, and #5. It wasn't like he had a string of #1 or #2 picks.
PG: Darius Garland (25)--3 additional years of team control
SG: Donovan Mitchell (28)--2 additional years of team control
SF: DeAndre Hunter (27)--2 additional years of team control
PF: Evan Mobley (23)--4 additional years of team control
C: Jarrett Allen (26)--4 additional years of team control
Situationally, Merrill is nice too. If they sign Ben, they will still have 1 more roster spot too.JJ_PR wrote:GeorgeMarcus wrote:BlazersBroncos wrote:This is a really good deal for CLE. Those swaps are unlikely to be used as the CLE core is really good and locked up. SRP are SRP and both outgoing guys are nowhere near as good as Hunter.
G - Darius Garland / Donovan Mitchell / Ty Jerome / Craig Porter JR
G - Donovan Mitchell / Max Strus / Sam Merrill / Isaac Okoro
F - De'Andre Hunter / Max Strus / Isaac Okoro / Jaylon Tyson
F - Even Mobley / Dean Wade / De'Andre Hunter / Isaac Okoro
C - Jarrett Allen / Evan Mobley / Tristan Thompson / Dean Wade
That Top-7 is really legit.
I'd even argue top 8 with Okoro who is pretty underrated IMO. Really nice rotation. Probably the most complete team in the league.
We're 9 deep actually:
Garland
Mitchell
Hunter
Mobley
Allen
Jerome
Strus
Okoro
Wade
And Ben Simmons is a real possibility.
JujitsuFlip wrote:Situationally, Merrill is nice too. If they sign Ben, they will still have 1 more roster spot too.JJ_PR wrote:GeorgeMarcus wrote:
I'd even argue top 8 with Okoro who is pretty underrated IMO. Really nice rotation. Probably the most complete team in the league.
We're 9 deep actually:
Garland
Mitchell
Hunter
Mobley
Allen
Jerome
Strus
Okoro
Wade
And Ben Simmons is a real possibility.