Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[Mattya]

If Beal/Booker/Durant and high end role players like Allen and Tyus cannot get it done, why would adding Durant and losing guys like Jaden and NAW change the equation? Also we would be giving up an all NBA defense pre prime Jaden for at best 3 years of huge money KD. Also how do you pay Naz? If you have 54+ in KD, 45+ in Ant, 37+ in Rudy, and 10+ in Mike are you gonna pay Naz 25+? Are you gonna be able to round out the roster. Is that enough for a title? I don’t trust KD’s health or loyalty enough to give him 54 million much less to give up young core pieces to do it. Worse he is an EXPIRING contract. He could leave or cost so much in year 2 that we are in the 2nd apron for 3 straight years and that has major consequences. This is the kind of bad idea that could make our already tough situation even worse.

I don't really see the comparison. I think everyone had questions about the fit of that team, not to mention I think we can put a more talented team on the floor. Gobert impacts winning more than Beal as a bench player with two ball dominant scorers. Ant is better than Booker. Then if you have Naz and Divincenzo i think they are far better than the rest of the Suns supporting cast.

[Klomp]

Such a move smells of a team knowing it isn't doing anything but wants to tell its fans, "We tried."

Jon Krawczynski says this wasn't the case.

Here's the video:

Read on Twitter

[Baseline81]

Jon Krawczynski says this wasn't the case.

As I thought, lip service. A move was never going to happen at the deadline.

First, he states the team knew it would be very difficult and didn't want to destroy its depth. Second, Krawczynski even admits the talks were likely more for laying the groundwork on a summer move.

My guess, once Doncic was dealt for that shocking return, the Wolves thought, why not give Phoenix a call.

[Klomp]

Jon Krawczynski says this wasn't the case.

As I thought, lip service. A move was never going to happen at the deadline.

First, he states the team knew it would be very difficult and didn't want to destroy its depth. Second, Krawczynski even admits the talks were likely more for laying the groundwork on a summer move.

My guess, once Doncic was dealt for that shocking return, the Wolves thought, why not give Phoenix a call.

That's not just lip service to placate fans. That's genuine interest, but just not feasible midseason with the current cap constraints for both teams.

[Baseline81]

That's not just lip service to placate fans. That's genuine interest, but just not feasible midseason with the current cap constraints for both teams.

Then why does it need to come out now, huh? The day of the trade deadline.

Are you telling me the two teams couldn't have had these conversations in private between then and the end of the season?

PR spin. End of.

Keep your optimism, Klomp. But sprinkle in a little realism every now and then.

[Klomp]

That's not just lip service to placate fans. That's genuine interest, but just not feasible midseason with the current cap constraints for both teams.

Then why does it need to come out now, huh? The day of the trade deadline.

Are you telling me the two teams couldn't have had these conversations in private between then and the end of the season?

PR spin. End of.

Keep your optimism, Klomp. But sprinkle in a little realism every now and then.

Because that's what happens in the 2025 media/social media landscape.

[ILC]

As much as I love KD I'm not doing it if Jaden has to go out. The whole idea would be to add a scoring monster like him to an existing core of the team to lift them up a level or two. And ofc not doing it unless he commits to an extension that slightly moves his salary down like Rudy did.

Because PHX has no leverage here. KD will be expiring this summer, already very mad they went behind his back and tried to trade him, they won't be able to demand much. And that's the whole reason you start laying this groundwork early, so that when the summer comes you can talk KD into having a Minnesota only and nobody else stance. Like he did with PHX when he asked out of BKN. Young superstar and pieces around him to make a final title push to end his career.

Randle S&T, Mike, Rob, Miller and every single pick MIN have left for KD. Then re-sign Naz and NAW.

DDV, NAW
Ant, TSJ
KD, Clark
McD, Naz
Rudy, Naz

Thin in the front court but that's a killer team. Time for Arod and Lore to put up financially if they indeed win this thing on Monday.

[winforlose]

Let’s side step the KD discussion for a moment and ask a very relevant question, are we sure we are not trading Rudy next season? Rudy is a top 3 paint protecter in the NBA and when he is on his game he is a top rebounder. But Rudy is a different style C than Ant wants to play with. Ant would be much happier with a 5 out C who wants to run and push pace while also providing him sturdy hands and space. Ant is the ultimate drive and kick guy, and a Myles Turner or Chet Holmgren style big is more conducive to that type of game. If Rudy and Randle are both available that is 67 million in salary that can used to acquire essentially anyone. We also have two draft picks coming in and I imagine at least one will be a C. I have no idea who is available at C in free agency or if we will have any MLE to use to acquire one. But I can envision a very different looking 4/5 rotation with an emphasis on offense and rebounding.

[TimberKat]

Let’s side step the KD discussion for a moment and ask a very relevant question, are we sure we are not trading Rudy next season? Rudy is a top 3 paint protecter in the NBA and when he is on his game he is a top rebounder. But Rudy is a different style C than Ant wants to play with. Ant would be much happier with a 5 out C who wants to run and push pace while also providing him sturdy hands and space. Ant is the ultimate drive and kick guy, and a Myles Turner or Chet Holmgren style big is more conducive to that type of game. If Rudy and Randle are both available that is 67 million in salary that can used to acquire essentially anyone. We also have two draft picks coming in and I imagine at least one will be a C. I have no idea who is available at C in free agency or if we will have any MLE to use to acquire one. But I can envision a very different looking 4/5 rotation with an emphasis on offense and rebounding.

I think everyone besides Ant would be considered in a KD trade. However, I love the combo of Gobert, KD, Ant. That is an upgrade from Towns as KD is a more natural PF. KD gives you reliable mid range and can also play a little CT in a small lineup. We will lose Naz and/or JMcD and want to keep Dilly, Clark and DDV. If Naz is better at D, than I would trade Gobert for the right deal. Suns may actually want Gobert to go with their shooters.

[younggunsmn]

Such a move smells of a team knowing it isn't doing anything but wants to tell its fans, "We tried."

Jon Krawczynski says this wasn't the case.

I agree with Baseline but I think it was also a gesture towards Ant.

Although completely gutting the team for a 36 year old expiring Kevin Durant who has a bad breakup with his team every 2 years or so is an absolutely Tim Connelly thing to do.

I mean if they were willing to take say Julius Randle + DDV or something like that I'd consider it, but that's a pretty weak offer.
I wouldn't offer Jaden or any draft picks I'm not selling out the future to be in the same place Phoenix is right now.

That being said, no team is going to take Tim Connelly seriously in trade talks pretty much ever again.

[Norseman79]

I doubt Gobert gets much, but he should get something. Randle should go. Conley needs to be given the option to retire or be traded. Honestly, if Clark keeps this up I M trading DD too. Ultimately, this is what we should look like prior to draft/free agency and without any returns on trades (aside from Naz)....


PG - ????, Dillingham
SG - Edwards, Clark, Shannon Jr.
SF - McDaniels, ????
PF - Naz, ????
C - ????,????

I left Minott and Miller off because I have no idea what they are doing with them. However, it's reached a point where you play them or trade them to at least get something back.

I would really like to get Maluach with the Detroit pick if it conveys, even if we keep Rudy. Then target a starting PG in free agency or in trades.

[ILC]

Windhorst said today on ESPN this is a situation the whole league is turning to for the summer, they already all think this is the next big move they can make. If this gets into a bidding war there's no way of getting him without giving up basically everyone other than Ant and maybe Naz.

Not doing that for a 37 year old Durant. Either he nukes his trade value like a smart superstar would do and forces his way to play with Ant AND the young core or he goes somewhere else. I'd guess MIA, DAL and HOU would overpay to get him. Won't be worth it IMO.

[younggunsmn]

If we end up with the Detroit pick this year in the mid to late teens, I'd be curious to see if we would be willing to do something like Phoenix did and turn it into 2 or 3 less valuable first round picks.

Maybe trade down from say 15 to 25 and pick up one or two sure to be very late 1sts with "worst of" language from some team with a stash of picks like OKC or Utah. Could also reset our stepien clock and make 26 or 28 tradeable if we can get picks in 27 or 29.

[winforlose]

If we end up with the Detroit pick this year in the mid to late teens, I'd be curious to see if we would be willing to do something like Phoenix did and turn it into 2 or 3 less valuable first round picks.

Maybe trade down from say 15 to 25 and pick up one or two sure to be very late 1sts with "worst of" language from some team with a stash of picks like OKC or Utah. Could also reset our stepien clock and make 26 or 28 tradeable if we can get picks in 27 or 29.

26 owes a swap, and 28 is literally our only untainted pick until 2032. If Durant wants to be here, be patient and let him come to us. He will have made more than enough money to set up generational wealth. We can still give him an MLE and in that case be at full strength to try and win a ring. If he doesn’t want to take the pay cut, I still believe we are better off not giving up value for KD. This team does not control 6 of the next 7 years of its draft assets. We see teams try and go further all in and end up broken. We are not gonna just be handed a top 5 player like Doncic was to LAL. We will end up like the Suns and then be forced to trade Ant and whoever is left just to try and be the like the Thunder. Unfortunately with our history we know how that ends. I would sooner fire TC than let him lose anyone under 27 from this team for KD.

[cmoss84]

If we end up with the Detroit pick this year in the mid to late teens, I'd be curious to see if we would be willing to do something like Phoenix did and turn it into 2 or 3 less valuable first round picks.

Maybe trade down from say 15 to 25 and pick up one or two sure to be very late 1sts with "worst of" language from some team with a stash of picks like OKC or Utah. Could also reset our stepien clock and make 26 or 28 tradeable if we can get picks in 27 or 29.

How far could we move up with Det and Utah picks? No idea how this looks in NBA. 15 and 32 gets you where? I'd rather swing for the fences...

[TimberKat]

Would you had traded Ant for Luka? If I know Luka would sign the max, I would. Definitely not without getting commitments from him. Luka would solve the PG issue and he is a better passer.

[Domejandro]

If we end up with the Detroit pick this year in the mid to late teens, I'd be curious to see if we would be willing to do something like Phoenix did and turn it into 2 or 3 less valuable first round picks.

Maybe trade down from say 15 to 25 and pick up one or two sure to be very late 1sts with "worst of" language from some team with a stash of picks like OKC or Utah. Could also reset our stepien clock and make 26 or 28 tradeable if we can get picks in 27 or 29.

How far could we move up with Det and Utah picks? No idea how this looks in NBA. 15 and 32 gets you where? I'd rather swing for the fences...

That would maybe get Minnesota up to #12 at best, which could still be worthwhile if there is a certain prospect that they like!

[winforlose]

Would you had traded Ant for Luka? If I know Luka would sign the max, I would. Definitely not without getting commitments from him. Luka would solve the PG issue and he is a better passer.

Ant is the iron man of the two, and has a higher upside. I would not. That said, Luka is better at the moment, I would just look further down the road.

[Klomp]

As much as I love KD I'm not doing it if Jaden has to go out. The whole idea would be to add a scoring monster like him to an existing core of the team to lift them up a level or two. And ofc not doing it unless he commits to an extension that slightly moves his salary down like Rudy did.

Because PHX has no leverage here. KD will be expiring this summer, already very mad they went behind his back and tried to trade him, they won't be able to demand much. And that's the whole reason you start laying this groundwork early, so that when the summer comes you can talk KD into having a Minnesota only and nobody else stance. Like he did with PHX when he asked out of BKN. Young superstar and pieces around him to make a final title push to end his career.

Randle S&T, Mike, Rob, Miller and every single pick MIN have left for KD. Then re-sign Naz and NAW.

DDV, NAW
Ant, TSJ
KD, Clark
McD, Naz
Rudy, Naz

Thin in the front court but that's a killer team. Time for Arod and Lore to put up financially if they indeed win this thing on Monday.

Thinking about this all weekend long....

I was originally fine trading Jaden if it netted us Durant, but I agree that it's probably shortsighted and I don't think I do it anymore. I do think though that putting Donte in the deal is fair game.

Mike might have to be included because of cap reasons. It sucks to lose him, but he's a pro and would understand it.

Let’s side step the KD discussion for a moment and ask a very relevant question, are we sure we are not trading Rudy next season? Rudy is a top 3 paint protecter in the NBA and when he is on his game he is a top rebounder. But Rudy is a different style C than Ant wants to play with. Ant would be much happier with a 5 out C who wants to run and push pace while also providing him sturdy hands and space. Ant is the ultimate drive and kick guy, and a Myles Turner or Chet Holmgren style big is more conducive to that type of game. If Rudy and Randle are both available that is 67 million in salary that can used to acquire essentially anyone. We also have two draft picks coming in and I imagine at least one will be a C. I have no idea who is available at C in free agency or if we will have any MLE to use to acquire one. But I can envision a very different looking 4/5 rotation with an emphasis on offense and rebounding.

This is another way to quickly and easily make up the salary difference to turn it into a legal trade. Phoenix is obviously center-deficient, so this would be a way to get around cap issues without killing the depth. It would likely still require an extra team or two, but it's feasible.

[shrink]

I am a big Durant fan because he is a hooper, and only a hooper. There are stories that between road back to backs, when the plane lands and all the players go to their hotels, he rents out gyms to work on his game. I think Ant has some of that in him, and I think he’d be a good influence on his future.

That said, I listened to a lot of KD talk this week, and one commentator said something that disturbed me. KD seems to be following in LeBron’s footsteps, but unlike LeBron, Durant only focuses on hoops and assumes everything else will take care of itself. LeBron is more meticulous in his image, in his relationships with teammates and front offices, and works with those extra tools to manage his career. Durant’s last three stops (GSW, BRK, and probably now PHX), have ended with toxic locker rooms, and this insider suggested it is because KD does not do any relationship building.

I like the vibe that the Wolves locker room seems to have. Credit Finch and maybe Tim Connelly for bringing in good guys, but it feels like each player is happy for each other’s success, and moreso than any previous Wolves team, these guys sacrifice for each other and for the team. I still would love to see Durant here, but I have concerns now outside of just the price to bring him in.