RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 2)

[Homer38]

James won in 3 different systems but he also has played with more individual talent and had more of a say in who he played with. He teamed up with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis. Those players were already established all star talent. Pippen and Grant developed playing with Jordan. So did Kukoc. Rodman was 34 and nobody wanted him. Jordan was also still playing defense at 40 unlike James. Jordan also built a dynasty in Chicago. What dynasty has James ever been a part of?

"Jordan built a dynasty". Now we're giving Jordan credit for the front office making great moves and putting some of the greatest supporting casts in history around him. Jordan mythologists are absolutely hilarious. Is there anything they won't give Jordan credit for? I'm waiting for him to get credit for the 93-94 team going 55-27 without him.

Don't let anybody ever tell you that the Air Jordan marketing campaign wasn't one of the greatest marketing campaigns ever. This is why it's difficult to debate with hardcore Jordan fans. You're dealing with a cult.

Dont get butthurt cause the guy won 2 3 peats and did help create one of the nba’s greatest dynasties. And again, your hero has an agency who pays talking heads in the media to promote him 24/7 and colludes with players and organizations to get players traded to his teams. Do better Taj FTW.

This is not Jordan who make move like Grant,Pippen,Rodman,Phil Jackson,etc.....He was not their GM.This is like giving credit to LBJ for the Luka trade when James had no idea like us that the lakers and mavs had discussion on this....

[MavsDirk41]

"Jordan built a dynasty". Now we're giving Jordan credit for the front office making great moves and putting some of the greatest supporting casts in history around him. Jordan mythologists are absolutely hilarious. Is there anything they won't give Jordan credit for? I'm waiting for him to get credit for the 93-94 team going 55-27 without him.

Don't let anybody ever tell you that the Air Jordan marketing campaign wasn't one of the greatest marketing campaigns ever. This is why it's difficult to debate with hardcore Jordan fans. You're dealing with a cult.

Dont get butthurt cause the guy won 2 3 peats and did help create one of the nba’s greatest dynasties. And again, your hero has an agency who pays talking heads in the media to promote him 24/7 and colludes with players and organizations to get players traded to his teams. Do better Taj FTW.

This is not Jordan who make move like Grant,Pippen,Rodman,Phil Jackson,etc.....He was not their GM.This is like giving credit to LBJ for the Luka trade when James had no idea like us that the lakers and mavs had discussion on this....

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

[Iwasawitness]

I have never doubted that LeBron can guard centers better than Jordan or is a better playmaker than Jordan, but how did this benefit his teams ?. Jordan did more than enough for his teams to be successful, so why did he need to do anything else ?.

Well for one thing, it allowed LeBron to do more defensively. Being able to play a defensive floater time did wonders for his teams, especially in the first stint Cavaliers days. That’s always going to have more of an impact than what Jordan did. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: Jordan is the best two way player ever, but he could never truly impact that end of the floor the way LeBron did. It isn’t just that he couldn’t guard centers… he could guard almost anyone in his prime. You couldn’t say the same about Jordan.

Better playmaker thing is self explanatory.

Jordan did do more than enough for his teams to win, but let me put it to you this way… LeBron won a championship on three different systems. I don’t think Jordan ever wins one outside of the one he was accustomed to. Jordan’s play style did have its faults. Sure, so did LeBron’s, but then again, those weaknesses were evened out by what Pippen, Grant/Rodman and the triangle brought to the table (whether people want to admit it or not).

James won in 3 different systems but he also has played with more individual talent and had more of a say in who he played with. He teamed up with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis. Those players were already established all star talent. Pippen and Grant developed playing with Jordan. So did Kukoc. Rodman was 34 and nobody wanted him. Jordan was also still playing defense at 40 unlike James. Jordan also built a dynasty in Chicago. What dynasty has James ever been a part of?

More individual talent in what regard? Are we talking within each system or just overall? If it’s the latter, then that isn’t really relevant. I look at each individual team and judge it based on that. When it comes to Cleveland and LA, that simply isn’t the case. Miami is a different story. On one hand, that 2013 Heat team can definitely compare with any bulls team Jordan ever played on. On the other hand, we can’t ignore the fact that apart from that season, those Miami squads were usually very top heavy, or in the case of 2014, old with lots of injuries. And it can’t be ignored that they just weren’t very good when LeBron wasn’t playing. Blame it on whatever you want but these things matter.

[Iwasawitness]

Dont get butthurt cause the guy won 2 3 peats and did help create one of the nba’s greatest dynasties. And again, your hero has an agency who pays talking heads in the media to promote him 24/7 and colludes with players and organizations to get players traded to his teams. Do better Taj FTW.

This is not Jordan who make move like Grant,Pippen,Rodman,Phil Jackson,etc.....He was not their GM.This is like giving credit to LBJ for the Luka trade when James had no idea like us that the lakers and mavs had discussion on this....

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

None of these points disapprove what Homer is saying here.

[Homer38]

Dont get butthurt cause the guy won 2 3 peats and did help create one of the nba’s greatest dynasties. And again, your hero has an agency who pays talking heads in the media to promote him 24/7 and colludes with players and organizations to get players traded to his teams. Do better Taj FTW.

This is not Jordan who make move like Grant,Pippen,Rodman,Phil Jackson,etc.....He was not their GM.This is like giving credit to LBJ for the Luka trade when James had no idea like us that the lakers and mavs had discussion on this....

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

What Jordan had done before Pippen is with the bulls?

We know that the bulls had 3 losing season in 3 season.

And remove the best players in each title team of the past,each team would been worse,not just the Bulls in the 1990s,so of course the Bulls were much better with Jordan but this is the same thing with the teams that LeBron was...But we also know the bulls had a great supporting cast,like the 1994 season when the bulls had 55 wins with nobody to replace Jordan at the SG position....

[MavsDirk41]

Well for one thing, it allowed LeBron to do more defensively. Being able to play a defensive floater time did wonders for his teams, especially in the first stint Cavaliers days. That’s always going to have more of an impact than what Jordan did. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: Jordan is the best two way player ever, but he could never truly impact that end of the floor the way LeBron did. It isn’t just that he couldn’t guard centers… he could guard almost anyone in his prime. You couldn’t say the same about Jordan.

Better playmaker thing is self explanatory.

Jordan did do more than enough for his teams to win, but let me put it to you this way… LeBron won a championship on three different systems. I don’t think Jordan ever wins one outside of the one he was accustomed to. Jordan’s play style did have its faults. Sure, so did LeBron’s, but then again, those weaknesses were evened out by what Pippen, Grant/Rodman and the triangle brought to the table (whether people want to admit it or not).

James won in 3 different systems but he also has played with more individual talent and had more of a say in who he played with. He teamed up with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis. Those players were already established all star talent. Pippen and Grant developed playing with Jordan. So did Kukoc. Rodman was 34 and nobody wanted him. Jordan was also still playing defense at 40 unlike James. Jordan also built a dynasty in Chicago. What dynasty has James ever been a part of?

More individual talent in what regard? Are we talking within each system or just overall? If it’s the latter, then that isn’t really relevant. I look at each individual team and judge it based on that. When it comes to Cleveland and LA, that simply isn’t the case. Miami is a different story. On one hand, that 2013 Heat team can definitely compare with any bulls team Jordan ever played on. On the other hand, we can’t ignore the fact that apart from that season, those Miami squads were usually very top heavy, or in the case of 2014, old with lots of injuries. And it can’t be ignored that they just weren’t very good when LeBron wasn’t playing. Blame it on whatever you want but these things matter.

Come on man lol. Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis were all established all star players when they played with James. Wade won a championship in Miami and was an all star. Bosh was Toronto’s best player and an allstar. Love was Minnesota’s best player and an all star. Irving was Cleveland’s best player and an all star. Davis was New Orleans best player and an all star. The Bulls first 3 peat was built through the draft and with role players. It was a finely tuned machine. Second 3 peat they traded for a 34 year old Rodman that nobody else wanted and brought in free agent Ron Harper who was on the wrong side of 30 and was a chucker.

Rodman was the only significant player that Jordan played with who was an allstar talent prior to playing with him. One player benefited from drafting good players and having solid role players while the other preferred playing with established talent and building a team around his needs.

[MavsDirk41]

This is not Jordan who make move like Grant,Pippen,Rodman,Phil Jackson,etc.....He was not their GM.This is like giving credit to LBJ for the Luka trade when James had no idea like us that the lakers and mavs had discussion on this....

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

None of these points disapprove what Homer is saying here.

Why?

[Homer38]

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

None of these points disapprove what Homer is saying here.

Why?

You said that Jordan create one of the nba’s greatest dynasties as if he was their GM....

[MavsDirk41]

This is not Jordan who make move like Grant,Pippen,Rodman,Phil Jackson,etc.....He was not their GM.This is like giving credit to LBJ for the Luka trade when James had no idea like us that the lakers and mavs had discussion on this....

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

What Jordan had done before Pippen is with the bulls?

We know that the bulls had 3 losing season in 3 season.

And remove the best players in each title team of the past,each team would been worse,not just the Bulls in the 1990s,so of course the Bulls were much better with Jordan but this is the same thing with the teams that LeBron was...But we also know the bulls had a great supporting cast,like the 1994 season when the bulls had 55 wins with nobody to replace Jordan at the SG position....

Who did Jordan play with before Pippen? Orlando Woolridge? Quinten Whatley? Charles Oakley? Brad Sellers? Dave Corzine? Tell me about them…..

Ok and what was the Bulls record in 95 before Jordan came back?

[MavsDirk41]

None of these points disapprove what Homer is saying here.

Why?

You said that Jordan create one of the nba’s greatest dynasties as if he was their GM....

Of course not but he was their best player, no? Name a GM or Head Coach who won a championship without an all time talent on the court…

[Homer38]

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

What Jordan had done before Pippen is with the bulls?

We know that the bulls had 3 losing season in 3 season.

And remove the best players in each title team of the past,each team would been worse,not just the Bulls in the 1990s,so of course the Bulls were much better with Jordan but this is the same thing with the teams that LeBron was...But we also know the bulls had a great supporting cast,like the 1994 season when the bulls had 55 wins with nobody to replace Jordan at the SG position....

Who did Jordan play with before Pippen? Orlando Woolridge? Quinten Whatley? Charles Oakley? Brad Sellers? Dave Corzine? Tell me about them…..

Ok and what was the Bulls record in 95 before Jordan came back?

34-31 and 5th in the east....Not bad like the 2011 cavs

And yeah,I agree supporting cast matter

[MavsDirk41]

What Jordan had done before Pippen is with the bulls?

We know that the bulls had 3 losing season in 3 season.

And remove the best players in each title team of the past,each team would been worse,not just the Bulls in the 1990s,so of course the Bulls were much better with Jordan but this is the same thing with the teams that LeBron was...But we also know the bulls had a great supporting cast,like the 1994 season when the bulls had 55 wins with nobody to replace Jordan at the SG position....

Who did Jordan play with before Pippen? Orlando Woolridge? Quinten Whatley? Charles Oakley? Brad Sellers? Dave Corzine? Tell me about them…..

Ok and what was the Bulls record in 95 before Jordan came back?

34-31 and 5th in the east....Not bad like the 2011 cavs

And yeah,I agree supporting cast matter

Ok and what record did the Bulls finish with after he came back?

So you dont know anything about the players Jordan played with before Pippen?

[Iwasawitness]

What had Phil Jackson accomplished before Jordan and the Bulls?

Can you provide proof that Pippen and Grant would have won those championships without playing with Jordan?

What was 34 year old Rodman up too before being traded to the Bulls? Does he win 3 more if he doesnt play with Jordan and the Bulls?

Ill wait

None of these points disapprove what Homer is saying here.

Why?

What did Irving accomplish before playing with LeBron? What did Kevin Love accomplish? I don’t even think Chris Bosh won a playoff series before playing for the Heat, same can be said for Anthony Davis. Can you provide any proof that they wouldn’t have stayed perineal losers without LeBron?

Dwayne Wade is the only one who LeBron joined up with who had any meaningful accomplishments. But then again, this is using your logic. In reality, if we want to go by what you’re asking, Dennis Rodman was coming off a first team all defensive selection and led the league in rebounding prior to being traded to the Bulls. But for some reason, you’re framing it as if he wasn’t an incredibly high impactful player.

So it evens out at that point.

[Homer38]

Who did Jordan play with before Pippen? Orlando Woolridge? Quinten Whatley? Charles Oakley? Brad Sellers? Dave Corzine? Tell me about them…..

Ok and what was the Bulls record in 95 before Jordan came back?

34-31 and 5th in the east....Not bad like the 2011 cavs

And yeah,I agree supporting cast matter

Ok and what record did the Bulls finish with after he came back?

So you dont know anything about the players Jordan played with before Pippen?

13-4 and second round exit.It was not the same team that 1994 after losing Grant,their interior defense was not the same in 1995.It become a big strenght once again in 1996 with Rodman who is also one of the best rebounder(offense and defense) of all-time

For the other question it was a bad roster,like this one...

Read on Twitter

[Iwasawitness]

James won in 3 different systems but he also has played with more individual talent and had more of a say in who he played with. He teamed up with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis. Those players were already established all star talent. Pippen and Grant developed playing with Jordan. So did Kukoc. Rodman was 34 and nobody wanted him. Jordan was also still playing defense at 40 unlike James. Jordan also built a dynasty in Chicago. What dynasty has James ever been a part of?

More individual talent in what regard? Are we talking within each system or just overall? If it’s the latter, then that isn’t really relevant. I look at each individual team and judge it based on that. When it comes to Cleveland and LA, that simply isn’t the case. Miami is a different story. On one hand, that 2013 Heat team can definitely compare with any bulls team Jordan ever played on. On the other hand, we can’t ignore the fact that apart from that season, those Miami squads were usually very top heavy, or in the case of 2014, old with lots of injuries. And it can’t be ignored that they just weren’t very good when LeBron wasn’t playing. Blame it on whatever you want but these things matter.

Come on man lol. Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis were all established all star players when they played with James. Wade won a championship in Miami and was an all star. Bosh was Toronto’s best player and an allstar. Love was Minnesota’s best player and an all star. Irving was Cleveland’s best player and an all star. Davis was New Orleans best player and an all star. The Bulls first 3 peat was built through the draft and with role players. It was a finely tuned machine. Second 3 peat they traded for a 34 year old Rodman that nobody else wanted and brought in free agent Ron Harper who was on the wrong side of 30 and was a chucker.

Rodman was the only significant player that Jordan played with who was an allstar talent prior to playing with him. One player benefited from drafting good players and having solid role players while the other preferred playing with established talent and building a team around his needs.

Again, none of this matters in regards to the context of the teams LeBron played for. What do Wade, Bosh and Davis have to do with, for example, Cleveland? My point is that LeBron won in three different systems. None of those particular systems had an overwhelming talent advantage. And compared to Jordan’s bulls, you can argue that only Miami compares.

And again, why are you downplaying Rodman? He was coming off a rebounding title and first team all defense selection. He was still an elite player. Nobody wanted him? Says who? Him? I call bs on this idea that no one wanted him because the team he was on wanted him gone.

[MavsDirk41]

None of these points disapprove what Homer is saying here.

Why?

What did Irving accomplish before playing with LeBron? What did Kevin Love accomplish? I don’t even think Chris Bosh won a playoff series before playing for the Heat, same can be said for Anthony Davis. Can you provide any proof that they wouldn’t have stayed perineal losers without LeBron?

Dwayne Wade is the only one who LeBron joined up with who had any meaningful accomplishments. But then again, this is using your logic. In reality, if we want to go by what you’re asking, Dennis Rodman was coming off a first team all defensive selection and led the league in rebounding prior to being traded to the Bulls. But for some reason, you’re framing it as if he wasn’t an incredibly high impactful player.

So it evens out at that point.

I would never say Rodman wasn’t pivotal to the Bulls second 3 peat, he obviously was. But, Rodman only played 49 games in San Antonio and he clashed with the coaching staff and players. They were done with his antics. Rodman was seen as a cancer by the Spurs and from many within the nba.

My point is James won with established talent while, other than Rodman, Jordan didnt.

[MavsDirk41]

More individual talent in what regard? Are we talking within each system or just overall? If it’s the latter, then that isn’t really relevant. I look at each individual team and judge it based on that. When it comes to Cleveland and LA, that simply isn’t the case. Miami is a different story. On one hand, that 2013 Heat team can definitely compare with any bulls team Jordan ever played on. On the other hand, we can’t ignore the fact that apart from that season, those Miami squads were usually very top heavy, or in the case of 2014, old with lots of injuries. And it can’t be ignored that they just weren’t very good when LeBron wasn’t playing. Blame it on whatever you want but these things matter.

Come on man lol. Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis were all established all star players when they played with James. Wade won a championship in Miami and was an all star. Bosh was Toronto’s best player and an allstar. Love was Minnesota’s best player and an all star. Irving was Cleveland’s best player and an all star. Davis was New Orleans best player and an all star. The Bulls first 3 peat was built through the draft and with role players. It was a finely tuned machine. Second 3 peat they traded for a 34 year old Rodman that nobody else wanted and brought in free agent Ron Harper who was on the wrong side of 30 and was a chucker.

Rodman was the only significant player that Jordan played with who was an allstar talent prior to playing with him. One player benefited from drafting good players and having solid role players while the other preferred playing with established talent and building a team around his needs.

Again, none of this matters in regards to the context of the teams LeBron played for. What do Wade, Bosh and Davis have to do with, for example, Cleveland? My point is that LeBron won in three different systems. None of those particular systems had an overwhelming talent advantage. And compared to Jordan’s bulls, you can argue that only Miami compares.

And again, why are you downplaying Rodman? He was coming off a rebounding title and first team all defense selection. He was still an elite player. Nobody wanted him? Says who? Him? I call bs on this idea that no one wanted him because the team he was on wanted him gone.

See my response above about Rodman and other than the Bulls who wanted him?

[MavsDirk41]

34-31 and 5th in the east....Not bad like the 2011 cavs

And yeah,I agree supporting cast matter

Ok and what record did the Bulls finish with after he came back?

So you dont know anything about the players Jordan played with before Pippen?

13-4 and second round exit.It was not the same team that 1994 after losing Grant,their interior defense was not the same in 1995.It become a big strenght once again in 1996 with Rodman who is also one of the best rebounder(offense and defense) of all-time

For the other question it was a bad roster,like this one...

Read on Twitter

Lebron factory? Lol come on man

[Homer38]

Ok and what record did the Bulls finish with after he came back?

So you dont know anything about the players Jordan played with before Pippen?

13-4 and second round exit.It was not the same team that 1994 after losing Grant,their interior defense was not the same in 1995.It become a big strenght once again in 1996 with Rodman who is also one of the best rebounder(offense and defense) of all-time

For the other question it was a bad roster,like this one...

Read on Twitter

Lebron factory? Lol come on man

He is not wrong....

[MavsDirk41]

13-4 and second round exit.It was not the same team that 1994 after losing Grant,their interior defense was not the same in 1995.It become a big strenght once again in 1996 with Rodman who is also one of the best rebounder(offense and defense) of all-time

For the other question it was a bad roster,like this one...

Read on Twitter

Lebron factory? Lol come on man

He is not wrong....

Did Cleveland play a team like Birds Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons in the east to make it to the finals? What juggernaut did they face in the east in 07?