Come in and grade Leon Rose so far

[spree8]

I’d say good. Made a lot of mistakes, but at the same time those mistakes led to what we have now so it kinda makes up for a lot of it.


Negatives:

*Nepotism
*Hiring Thibs because of their friendship instead of a modern coach
*Drafting Obi because of his son/CAA instead of Hali/Maxey
*Chose IQ cuz of Kentucky (WWW “we need shooting”..pass on Bane)
*Bailed on a proper rebuild
*Doubled down on pretender status in 2021
*Gave out bad deals like Fournier, Rose, Kemba, Noel
*Passed on Herb Jones
*Gave away a 1st that could’ve been JDub (horrible Draft record)
*Not strategic enough to give iHart a 3 yr deal/TO to keep rights
*Gave away Grimes & Obi for free



Positives:

*Hiring Brock & Johnny Bryant
*Didn’t give up Randle; Became an All-Star/All-NBA.. then KAT
*Signed Jalen (2 team friendly deals) & Rick
*Josh trade
*Donte signing
*OG trade
*Mikal trade
*KAT trade

[nykballa2k4]

Went with *good*
Big hits -
getting Thibs
tampering to get Brunson
trading Reddish and FRP for Josh Hart
KAT trade
OG trade

I will say Phil Jackson gets a bad reputation here, but he did something really great - he gave us roster flexibility. We had some young useful player, we had our picks plus other picks. Cap outlook was not bad. He set us up well.

Rose almost screwed us with Fournier/Kemba, but allowed Thibs to play HIS bench over the highly paid guys and it paid off.
BIG overpay for Bridges.
Losing Donte hasn't been great
Last trade deadline (Grimes for Bogdonovic and Burks) was an obvious let down. Malachi Flynn was actually the best player THAT season after the trade (kid scores 52, can't find a job, this league is bonkers)

ultimately - this construction feels like an A tier team, not sure how we get to S tier.

Bit of hindsight - but it would have been wise for us to trade iHart last deadline before he left us for nothing, but who knows what dominos that sets off.

Phil was extremely bad trash. He deserves to be listed with Isiah, Layden, etc. He doesn’t deserve shyt just cause he didn’t trade picks. Steve Mills knew the same, except Steve Mills didn’t pigeonhole a system, didn’t force bad coaches on us for the system, and didn’t have a habit of trashing his players through his butt Buddy Rosen.

I think with Rose, I think what is just as important are the trades he didn’t make, the extensions he didn’t give to players, the right timing of some of the moves.

Phil paved the way for success after he left. His plan didn't work, but you have to wonder how it would have gone if Mark Jackson wasn't fired and Kerr took the NY job.

[aq_ua]

Went with *good*
Big hits -
getting Thibs
tampering to get Brunson
trading Reddish and FRP for Josh Hart
KAT trade
OG trade

I will say Phil Jackson gets a bad reputation here, but he did something really great - he gave us roster flexibility. We had some young useful player, we had our picks plus other picks. Cap outlook was not bad. He set us up well.

Rose almost screwed us with Fournier/Kemba, but allowed Thibs to play HIS bench over the highly paid guys and it paid off.
BIG overpay for Bridges.
Losing Donte hasn't been great
Last trade deadline (Grimes for Bogdonovic and Burks) was an obvious let down. Malachi Flynn was actually the best player THAT season after the trade (kid scores 52, can't find a job, this league is bonkers)

ultimately - this construction feels like an A tier team, not sure how we get to S tier.

Bit of hindsight - but it would have been wise for us to trade iHart last deadline before he left us for nothing, but who knows what dominos that sets off.

Phil was extremely bad trash. He deserves to be listed with Isiah, Layden, etc. He doesn’t deserve shyt just cause he didn’t trade picks. Steve Mills knew the same, except Steve Mills didn’t pigeonhole a system, didn’t force bad coaches on us for the system, and didn’t have a habit of trashing his players through his butt Buddy Rosen.

I think with Rose, I think what is just as important are the trades he didn’t make, the extensions he didn’t give to players, the right timing of some of the moves.

Phil paved the way for success after he left. His plan didn't work, but you have to wonder how it would have gone if Mark Jackson wasn't fired and Kerr took the NY job.

2016-17
Signings: Joakim Noah (four years, $72 million), Courtney Lee (four years, $48 million), Lance Thomas (four years, $27 million), Brandon Jennings (one year, $5 million — waived midseason)

2017-18
Draft: Frank Ntilikina

Perhaps this gentle reminder will help put things in perspective

[nykballa2k4]

Phil was extremely bad trash. He deserves to be listed with Isiah, Layden, etc. He doesn’t deserve shyt just cause he didn’t trade picks. Steve Mills knew the same, except Steve Mills didn’t pigeonhole a system, didn’t force bad coaches on us for the system, and didn’t have a habit of trashing his players through his butt Buddy Rosen.

I think with Rose, I think what is just as important are the trades he didn’t make, the extensions he didn’t give to players, the right timing of some of the moves.

Phil paved the way for success after he left. His plan didn't work, but you have to wonder how it would have gone if Mark Jackson wasn't fired and Kerr took the NY job.

2016-17
Signings: Joakim Noah (four years, $72 million), Courtney Lee (four years, $48 million), Lance Thomas (four years, $27 million), Brandon Jennings (one year, $5 million — waived midseason)

2017-18
Draft: Frank Ntilikina

Perhaps this gentle reminder will help put things in perspective

He gambled on project/upside of KP. That paid off. His scouts narrowed it to Spida and Frank. Frank had the higher ceiling (younger, already elite on defense) Spida was older coming in the league (part of why he fell). So they took another swing. When you swing on the raw prospect and it pans out, you look good (KP, Giannis)
when it DOESN'T you look like crap (Frank, Knox, Darko, Kwame Brown)
Of course, hindsight we know the answers, but they took swings.
The best part is Michael "Francessa East" Kay was crapping on the KP pick, then when KP was great, he pivoted to "anyone would have made that pick, it fell in their lap, they really wanted Okafor (by then the only known bust).

Lee was actually okay, he wasn't a negative asset (though was not the answer). LT I believe we traded away as a positive, also was a useful 3/D player for us when we had NONE of them and we got him out of nowhere. jennings was BPA and at 1 year, sounds like MLE, can't really be mad at that.

[spree8]

Phil paved the way for success after he left. His plan didn't work, but you have to wonder how it would have gone if Mark Jackson wasn't fired and Kerr took the NY job.

2016-17
Signings: Joakim Noah (four years, $72 million), Courtney Lee (four years, $48 million), Lance Thomas (four years, $27 million), Brandon Jennings (one year, $5 million — waived midseason)

2017-18
Draft: Frank Ntilikina

Perhaps this gentle reminder will help put things in perspective

He gambled on project/upside of KP. That paid off. His scouts narrowed it to Spida and Frank. Frank had the higher ceiling (younger, already elite on defense) Spida was older coming in the league (part of why he fell). So they took another swing. When you swing on the raw prospect and it pans out, you look good (KP, Giannis)
when it DOESN'T you look like crap (Frank, Knox, Darko, Kwame Brown)
Of course, hindsight we know the answers, but they took swings.
The best part is Michael "Francessa East" Kay was crapping on the KP pick, then when KP was great, he pivoted to "anyone would have made that pick, it fell in their lap, they really wanted Okafor (by then the only known bust).

Lee was actually okay, he wasn't a negative asset (though was not the answer). LT I believe we traded away as a positive, also was a useful 3/D player for us when we had NONE of them and we got him out of nowhere. jennings was BPA and at 1 year, sounds like MLE, can't really be mad at that.

Phil was asleep at the Donovan workout tho

[knicks94]

I always believed that the league deliberately sent guys like Isiah Thomas and Phil Jackson to the Knicks to sabotage their franchise.

[StlHawksFan]

He hasn't been perfect, but he's definitely been one of the best behind Sam Presti.

Some of his misses:
1. Drafting Obi Toppin ahead of Haliburton when we had 4 PFs rostered and really needed a PG.
2. Re-signing Noel when it was clear he wasn't going to give us anything after the injuries. He later had to give up picks to dump the contract.
3. Signing the former Boston backcourt duo of Walker and Fournier. It ended up costing a first rounder (Jalen Duren) to dump Walker.

Overall I'd give him an A-.

[Nostrand Ave]

Great cuz he didnt improve the bench yet

That's on Thibs.

[Nostrand Ave]

Negatives:

*Gave away Grimes & Obi for free

That was a head-scratcher.

[nykballa2k4]

Perhaps this gentle reminder will help put things in perspective

He gambled on project/upside of KP. That paid off. His scouts narrowed it to Spida and Frank. Frank had the higher ceiling (younger, already elite on defense) Spida was older coming in the league (part of why he fell). So they took another swing. When you swing on the raw prospect and it pans out, you look good (KP, Giannis)
when it DOESN'T you look like crap (Frank, Knox, Darko, Kwame Brown)
Of course, hindsight we know the answers, but they took swings.
The best part is Michael "Francessa East" Kay was crapping on the KP pick, then when KP was great, he pivoted to "anyone would have made that pick, it fell in their lap, they really wanted Okafor (by then the only known bust).

Lee was actually okay, he wasn't a negative asset (though was not the answer). LT I believe we traded away as a positive, also was a useful 3/D player for us when we had NONE of them and we got him out of nowhere. jennings was BPA and at 1 year, sounds like MLE, can't really be mad at that.

Phil was asleep at the Donovan workout tho

Hahn, at the time, was talking up Knicks interest in Mitchell. I mean there were a bunch of other guys taken after Frank, before or around Spida that all the "experts" had going before Spida, so the fact that we identified him was actually a positive. We chose wrong, but we at least knew what we were doing to a point.