game thread - raps vs rockets 2pm est (yipee!)

[tsherkin]

Yeah like we all want Barnes closer to the basket because that's where he is at his best.

And we have always said we want to surround him with shooting for a reason.

Agreed.

You seem to assume that he's going through a FVV "I am God and should shoot everything" phase.

No, I'm quite sure he is doing as he is being directed, actually.

Is there really a concern that he will go FVV "this is my team and I shoot here"? Doesn't seems consistent with his history.

That isn't a concern I have articulated at all...

[ATLTimekeeper]

We have no bigs. He doesn't play the same position as Battle. His role on a winning team is energy/defense off the bench.

A winning team don't need energy and defense as it's main components, it needs guys that can make shots.

Dort shot the 3 under .300 his first year and had no offensive game and was a below average shooter until 2 years ago. Yes, Mogbo needs to be able to bring something offensively to play a role on a contender. But he's already an elite defender with ability to guard 1-5. If a guy like him finds a shot, he's a difference maker in this league. We are developing assets and he is unique in what he brings to the table for us. Why not look at the positives and give it a bit of time?

Also, guys that can guard 1-5 are not dime a dozen. If they were, they'd be all over the league.

Lu definitely had an offensive game in college. He was a volume shooter, leading scorer on his team. His %s went up here. Mogbo is spacing the floor for the first time since he was in high school, I presume. They're trying to implement brand new skills for him v. refining for Dort.

[Boogie!]

scottie will look a lot better with ingram and rj being the 3rd option

he better be working hard this summer cause his game needs a lot of refining

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Scottie's offensive ceiling is a poor man's Karl Malone. That's not an insult either. He needs to just focus on decimating opponents with a power game in the post and in transition, having a reliable long jumper and corner three to keep defenses honest, and playing off of others in the half court.

Then he'll be a very efficient 18-20ppg scorer and can expend most of his energy on defense and rebounding.

18.5, 11, 4.5, 1.5 and 1.5. That's a championship piece and a HOF career.

Well then it’s concerning that in his fourth season with free rein to take all the open 3s he wants he’s shooting 20 something percent. Everyone loves blaming outside circumstances with this guy but he has not gotten better since last year

[WhatsaTDot]

We've given up on PG threads?

[links135]

scottie will look a lot better with ingram and rj being the 3rd option

he better be working hard this summer cause his game needs a lot of refining

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Scottie's offensive ceiling is a poor man's Karl Malone. That's not an insult either. He needs to just focus on decimating opponents with a power game in the post and in transition, having a reliable long jumper and corner three to keep defenses honest, and playing off of others in the half court.

Then he'll be a very efficient 18-20ppg scorer and can expend most of his energy on defense and rebounding.

18.5, 11, 4.5, 1.5 and 1.5. That's a championship piece and a HOF career.

Keep in mind he's been 10 ten (okay 11th) in midrange game this year. What's nice about Ingram is Scottie doesn't need to be shooting 3's above the break so much, Ingram can do that and pull up doing that, which can allow Scottie to be more of a corner 3 for that.

Right now you can just double team scottie to your hearts content, just make him give it up to Mogbo, Dick or Water/Agbagi because they can't drive, so it's tough. They can't just do that with IQ, Barret and Ingram on the court as well.

I mean not everyone can be like Mobley and have 70% of his 2's assisted. Barnes has to actually create his own shot.

[Boardbreaker]

A winning team don't need energy and defense as it's main components, it needs guys that can make shots.

Dort shot the 3 under .300 his first year and had no offensive game and was a below average shooter until 2 years ago. Yes, Mogbo needs to be able to bring something offensively to play a role on a contender. But he's already an elite defender with ability to guard 1-5. If a guy like him finds a shot, he's a difference maker in this league. We are developing assets and he is unique in what he brings to the table for us. Why not look at the positives and give it a bit of time?

Also, guys that can guard 1-5 are not dime a dozen. If they were, they'd be all over the league.

Lu definitely had an offensive game in college. He was a volume shooter, leading scorer on his team. His %s went up here. Mogbo is spacing the floor for the first time since he was in high school, I presume. They're trying to implement brand new skills for him v. refining for Dort.

It’s like people forget just how terrible siakam looked when he first started shooting 3s

[nestea]

Looks like we’re winning the one peeps!! Time to celebrate by doing something else now. Hah.

Oops .

[ForeverTFC]

A winning team don't need energy and defense as it's main components, it needs guys that can make shots.

Dort shot the 3 under .300 his first year and had no offensive game and was a below average shooter until 2 years ago. Yes, Mogbo needs to be able to bring something offensively to play a role on a contender. But he's already an elite defender with ability to guard 1-5. If a guy like him finds a shot, he's a difference maker in this league. We are developing assets and he is unique in what he brings to the table for us. Why not look at the positives and give it a bit of time?

Also, guys that can guard 1-5 are not dime a dozen. If they were, they'd be all over the league.

Lu definitely had an offensive game in college. He was a volume shooter, leading scorer on his team. His %s went up here. Mogbo is spacing the floor for the first time since he was in high school, I presume. They're trying to implement brand new skills for him v. refining for Dort.

Dort was .300 from 3 (inflated by an early hot streak) and .700 for the FT line during his college years. Yes, Dort had shown more scoring ability and took more shots. But he didn't have any of the college indicators that he could become a high % 3pt shooter. And he mostly bullied his way into his points due to his size.

My point is a bit broader. OP said that guys like Mogbo are dime a dozen and that's simply not true. His ability to guard effectively 1-5 is unique. Given we're rebuilding, there is no reason for us to not invest in a profile like his precisely because it's not dime a dozen. I brought up Dort for the same reason. FWIW, here is Dort's outlook from NBADraft.com

Outlook: Has a potential role at the next level as a physical, defensive minded, small 2-guard …Masqueraded as a point guard early in his freshman season and drew some mid first round hype before his shooting numbers dipped and his NBA role became more apparent … Projected as a early to mid second rounder by scouts, and is probably best advised to stay the course and see if he can get a team to bite in the late first round, based on the potential that he showed in his freshman season … NBA career will depend upon how much his outside shooting can improve. At this point he is a long ways from being a consistent shooter and projects as a bench player with defensive potential …

[causal_fan]

Good Loss - I'd like to see the bench get at least 100 minutes in total, also no player playing more than 30 minutes, more 3 attempts as that's where the game is - it should be all about development. I'd like the Raptors to also try a unit approach - the starting 5 play together, then the bench 5 play as a unit for the remainder of this season.

[dagger]

It took a lot of effort to lose that game. And Darko was key, using the rookies down the stretch and resisting the temptation to put Quickley into the game.

[JShuttlesworth]

Smart loss tonight, nice work

But Darko needs to rethink Scottie and Mogbo jacking up 3's like that

Scottie isn't a good 3-point shooter, he needs to continue to work on them and take open looks, but Darko should be encouraging him to play to his strengths

[tsherkin]

It’s like people forget just how terrible siakam looked when he first started shooting 3s

Siakam was better much faster than Scottie as a shooter. This isn't a viable comparison.

Well then it’s concerning that in his fourth season with free rein to take all the open 3s he wants he’s shooting 20 something percent. Everyone loves blaming outside circumstances with this guy but he has not gotten better since last year

Sure, it's concerning from the POV of him shooting threes. His mid-range game has improved, though, and I think we're talking about arranging his shot diet to have far fewer threes and much less overall creation so he can benefit from higher-efficiency sets with the luxury of that lower creation requirement and lower volume.

[Ari_Emanuel]

scottie will look a lot better with ingram and rj being the 3rd option

he better be working hard this summer cause his game needs a lot of refining

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Scottie's offensive ceiling is a poor man's Karl Malone. That's not an insult either. He needs to just focus on decimating opponents with a power game in the post and in transition, having a reliable long jumper and corner three to keep defenses honest, and playing off of others in the half court.

Then he'll be a very efficient 18-20ppg scorer and can expend most of his energy on defense and rebounding.

18.5, 11, 4.5, 1.5 and 1.5. That's a championship piece and a HOF career.

Well then it’s concerning that in his fourth season with free rein to take all the open 3s he wants he’s shooting 20 something percent. Everyone loves blaming outside circumstances with this guy but he has not gotten better since last year

It is a concern. In his defense, FO saw him as a moldable blob of potential and have been happy to let him feel his game out since year 2, short term results be damned. They have him doing everything which exhausts him and has him playing outside his strengths far too often.

If anything, trading for Ingram may be a tacit admission that his offensive potential isn't as limitless as once hoped.

It's imperative that Coach and Management sit-down with Scottie after this season and give him a clearer and narrower path forward for his development. He'll yield much more from coming to terms with his limitations, working within them, and tirelessly working to turn his relative strengths into weapons of destruction that he can spam 95% of the time.

[youngRAPZ]

I’m not one for giving Scottie an excuse. He needs to be better and I believe he will get to the level we need from him.


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[anotherhomer]

Smart loss tonight, nice work

But Darko needs to rethink Scottie and Mogbo jacking up 3's like that

Scottie isn't a good 3-point shooter, he needs to continue to work on them and take open looks, but Darko should be encouraging him to play to his strengths

i'm ok with scottie focusing on working his game versus maximizing him right now

[ForeverTFC]

It’s like people forget just how terrible siakam looked when he first started shooting 3s

Siakam was better much faster than Scottie as a shooter. This isn't a viable comparison.

Siakam was the 2nd option on a championship team in his 4th year and the 1st option in all the games Kawhi didn't play. As a scorer, Barnes is not anywhere close to Siakam.

I still think Barnes can be the better player. But if he doesn't learn how to score the ball and create for himself, I think his ceiling is a lot lower than our fanbase wants to believe. Most get pissed off at the Gordon comparsion, but that feels like the most likely outcome at this point, with more playmaking chops.