Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[Chi town]

Only way Giddey can improve enough to even be worth 18M Pat’s number is if he has a Lonzo like upgrade in his shot.

I’m not paying Giddey more than 15M per. 3/45 with team option. If he finds his shot he’s a value contract if not he’s tradable and you can move on.

Your not paying him so doesn't really matter what you would do.

Hahahaha. Sounds like it’s your money!

Don’t know why you get so petty out of nowhere. You do this consistently when someone makes a comment about a player you have a different valuation of.

None of us directly pay any of these players. We all know that. It goes without saying. Thanks for the reminder.

[GuardianEnzo]

People forget how hideous Ball's 3-point shooting was (and looked) his first couple of years in the league. He totally transformed himself as a player by totally transforming his shot. If Giddey can improve half as much as Lonzo did he's a completely different proposition. Time for Patton to earn his money.

Giddey has a pretty unique skill set for a guy his size. He'll obviously never be the defender Lonzo is but he's improved quite a bit in that department already. He's certainly a better passer and more natural facilitator than Lonzo and a great secondary rebounder. There's no way AK is letting him walk either way, but I'm fine with him sticking around on a halfway reasonable contract. I expect something like 4/$70

[PJSteven22]

NBA player age average is 26.5, or 27 years old. Giddey is 22. Can he improve his TS% 6% in 5 years? Probably. All advanced stats comparing Giddey to average NBA players ignore the fact that he's 4.5 years younger than the average player. If somebody tabulated the stats of all 22 year old guards TS% and compare Giddey's, it won't look nearly as bad.

At 22 Ball, a very similar player, was shooting 36% from the field and 30.5% from 3. Much better shooter now. He's not particularly fast, explosive, or good at pressuring the rim either.

His age is irrelevant because a lot of his issues (even in the scoring department) are related to his lack of athleticism. He’s not going to become more athletic. Also he’s has a large enough sample size to safely assume that he’ll never be a good shooter. Especially with his release, it’s way too slow and clunky to be effective. He’d have to start from the ground up and he’d probably end up making his jump shot even worse if he does that.


No disrespect but Lonzo is a terrible comparison to Giddey. Lonzo didn’t put pressure on the rim but he was a pretty good athlete, especially at 22. Giddey was probably a Denzel Valentine level athlete. Just poor all across the board. Also Lonzo had better form on his jumper. Lonzo was already a good shooter by the time he was 22. Lonzo shot 37.5% from deep on 6.3 attempts per game. Not to mention that Lonzo was an all defensive caliber player as well.

[youtube] https://youtu.be/B9q1xVkVM3I?si=1LavC_SaWs3hZThy[/youtube]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/dTX2I7O9e-c?si=j8yNUUlVShqxTD-o[/youtube]

Is Luka going to become more athletic? Is Jokic? There a lot of players who aren't particularly athletic that excel in the NBA. This is the same logic that had us trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. There are any number of NBA players who have completely changed their shots, many after age 21. Lebron has tinkered with his shot his whole career. Brook Lopez didn't even start shooting 3's until his 7th season and shot 10% and 14% the first two years he tried. Miss me with players can't improve their shooting when his percentage has literally been going up every year. There are no facts to support this. Ball's not athletic now, but he's still a good defender. Much more to half court offense and defense than athleticism.

Lonzo is a great comparison to Giddey, you just don't like it. Similar size, same position. Both good rebounders and passers. Both poor jump shooters when they started. Both got multiple triple-doubles or close many times while young. Ball was slightly more athletic, Giddey's slightly taller. Lonzo shot 31% from three his first year, 33% his second. Know what people were saying about his shot? The same thing they're saying about Giddey's, it was too slow and clunky. He'll never be able to fix it. He rebuilt his shot, exactly what you're saying Gddey can't do. Name two more comparable players to Giddey, since Ball is a bad example. I'll wait. Possibly the best vet in the league for Giddey to learn from. A terrible comparison would be like Haliburton or Fox or Lillard.

What people were saying about Ball's jumper.

https://www.stack.com/a/why-lonzo-balls-shooting-struggles-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-his-unorthodox-form/

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/11/17/lonzo-balls-3-point-shooting-is-better-than-ever-but-about-those-layups/

Since ya'll like to use TS% so much, Giddey's TS% his rookie year was 48%. It's 54% this year. Not great, but come on, that's a huge improvement.

Really you’re going to compare Giddey to Luka and Jokic. Really??? Luka was first team All-NBA and took his team to the WCF. Jokic averaged 18, 10, and 6 on 60%TS and led his team to 46 wins. Those are terrible borderline delusional comparisons no offense. Both of those guys flashed substantially more potential than Giddey at this point in their careers. Giddey looks like a good stats bad team guy at this point. His inability to score not only cripples his ability to affect the game it cripples the team as well. Essentially playing 4 on 5 if the ball isn’t in his hands. LeBron is the greatest SF ever so again terrible comparison because all time greats typically figure it out. I never said he can’t improve his jumper I just think it’s unlikely because has mechanics are that jacked up. He has a very slow clunky release and he shoots like a little kid.

I guess we just disagree on the Lonzo Giddey comparison. They’re not even in the same area code as far as athleticism goes. If he becomes a respectable shooter and continues to learn angles on defense he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. A solid 7th man or spot starter. But defenses don’t respect his jumper at all so he has his work cut out for him. That’s a smart connective passer who can rebound and is neutral on defense. You not changing my mind on this so stop with the Outlandish comparisons. Giddey is not that guy. Name me an example of a guard being a below average athlete, shooter, and scorer all of the sudden becoming a star. Don’t worry I’ll wait because that doesn’t exist.

[Jcool0]

Only way Giddey can improve enough to even be worth 18M Pat’s number is if he has a Lonzo like upgrade in his shot.

I’m not paying Giddey more than 15M per. 3/45 with team option. If he finds his shot he’s a value contract if not he’s tradable and you can move on.

Your not paying him so doesn't really matter what you would do.

Hahahaha. Sounds like it’s your money!

Don’t know why you get so petty out of nowhere. You do this consistently when someone makes a comment about a player you have a different valuation of.

None of us directly pay any of these players. We all know that. It goes without saying. Thanks for the reminder.

It's not my money and I understand a 22 year old 6'8" PG that can score 15 ppg 7 rebounds and 6 assists is going to get decent money. You can talk all you want about how he sucks but acting like he's going to sign for under 50M is almost trolling. You sound like one of those people thinking Zach was a 50M player in 2018 and then he was resigned for 80M.

[Dan Z]

His age is irrelevant because a lot of his issues (even in the scoring department) are related to his lack of athleticism. He’s not going to become more athletic. Also he’s has a large enough sample size to safely assume that he’ll never be a good shooter. Especially with his release, it’s way too slow and clunky to be effective. He’d have to start from the ground up and he’d probably end up making his jump shot even worse if he does that.


No disrespect but Lonzo is a terrible comparison to Giddey. Lonzo didn’t put pressure on the rim but he was a pretty good athlete, especially at 22. Giddey was probably a Denzel Valentine level athlete. Just poor all across the board. Also Lonzo had better form on his jumper. Lonzo was already a good shooter by the time he was 22. Lonzo shot 37.5% from deep on 6.3 attempts per game. Not to mention that Lonzo was an all defensive caliber player as well.

[youtube] https://youtu.be/B9q1xVkVM3I?si=1LavC_SaWs3hZThy[/youtube]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/dTX2I7O9e-c?si=j8yNUUlVShqxTD-o[/youtube]

Is Luka going to become more athletic? Is Jokic? There a lot of players who aren't particularly athletic that excel in the NBA. This is the same logic that had us trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. There are any number of NBA players who have completely changed their shots, many after age 21. Lebron has tinkered with his shot his whole career. Brook Lopez didn't even start shooting 3's until his 7th season and shot 10% and 14% the first two years he tried. Miss me with players can't improve their shooting when his percentage has literally been going up every year. There are no facts to support this. Ball's not athletic now, but he's still a good defender. Much more to half court offense and defense than athleticism.

Lonzo is a great comparison to Giddey, you just don't like it. Similar size, same position. Both good rebounders and passers. Both poor jump shooters when they started. Both got multiple triple-doubles or close many times while young. Ball was slightly more athletic, Giddey's slightly taller. Lonzo shot 31% from three his first year, 33% his second. Know what people were saying about his shot? The same thing they're saying about Giddey's, it was too slow and clunky. He'll never be able to fix it. He rebuilt his shot, exactly what you're saying Gddey can't do. Name two more comparable players to Giddey, since Ball is a bad example. I'll wait. Possibly the best vet in the league for Giddey to learn from. A terrible comparison would be like Haliburton or Fox or Lillard.

What people were saying about Ball's jumper.

https://www.stack.com/a/why-lonzo-balls-shooting-struggles-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-his-unorthodox-form/

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/11/17/lonzo-balls-3-point-shooting-is-better-than-ever-but-about-those-layups/

Since ya'll like to use TS% so much, Giddey's TS% his rookie year was 48%. It's 54% this year. Not great, but come on, that's a huge improvement.

Really you’re going to compare Giddey to Luka and Jokic. Really??? Luka was first team All-NBA and took his team to the WCF. Jokic averaged 18, 10, and 6 on 60%TS and led his team to 47 wins. Those are terrible borderline delusional comparisons no offense. Both of those guys flashed substantially more potential than Giddey at this point in their careers. Giddey looks like a good stats bad team guy at this point. His inability to score not only cripples his ability to affect the game it cripples the team as well. Essentially playing 4 on 5 if the ball isn’t in his hands. LeBron is the greatest SF ever so again terrible comparison because all time greats typically figure it out.

I guess we just disagree on the Lonzo Giddey comparison. They’re not even in the same area code as far as athleticism goes. If he becomes a respectable shooter and continues to learn angles on defense he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. A solid 7th man or spot starter. But defenses don’t respect his jumper at all so he has his work cut out for him. That’s a smart connective passer who can rebound and is neutral on defense. You not changing my mind on this so stop with the Outlandish comparisons. Giddey is not that guy.

What do you think the Bulls should do with Giddey this off season? Pay him a decent extension? Other?

[cocktailswith_2short]

Well let's look at the positives to him signing a reasonable deal . Chicago is a great city, he has relatively no pressure and is guaranteed a starting spot to succeed . Maybe he takes a sensible deal.

[Chi town]

Your not paying him so doesn't really matter what you would do.

Hahahaha. Sounds like it’s your money!

Don’t know why you get so petty out of nowhere. You do this consistently when someone makes a comment about a player you have a different valuation of.

None of us directly pay any of these players. We all know that. It goes without saying. Thanks for the reminder.

It's not my money and I understand a 22 year old 6'8" PG that can score 15 ppg 7 rebounds and 6 assists is going to get decent money. You can talk all you want about how he sucks but acting like he's going to sign for under 50M is almost trolling. You sound like one of those people thinking Zach was a 50M player in 2018 and then he was resigned for 80M.

I’ve never said he sucks. I like Giddey. He has improved his defense a lot. If he can improve his 3 ball he’s a keeper. No way I pay him like he has. No free money like Pat and then have a bad contract on our hands.

My hope is he decided not to work with Patton on his shot because it’s a contract year and he was at the Olympics and then hurt not wanting to make a change with such little time to do the work needed to really improve it. Hopefully, he does that this summer and comes back with a Zo like 3 ball.

I’m all in on the 26 summer plan. Suck now and next year and have a free cap sheet going into next summer. Buz, lottery pick this year and hopefully top 4 pick next year to go with two max slots.

[Infinity2152]

Is Luka going to become more athletic? Is Jokic? There a lot of players who aren't particularly athletic that excel in the NBA. This is the same logic that had us trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. There are any number of NBA players who have completely changed their shots, many after age 21. Lebron has tinkered with his shot his whole career. Brook Lopez didn't even start shooting 3's until his 7th season and shot 10% and 14% the first two years he tried. Miss me with players can't improve their shooting when his percentage has literally been going up every year. There are no facts to support this. Ball's not athletic now, but he's still a good defender. Much more to half court offense and defense than athleticism.

Lonzo is a great comparison to Giddey, you just don't like it. Similar size, same position. Both good rebounders and passers. Both poor jump shooters when they started. Both got multiple triple-doubles or close many times while young. Ball was slightly more athletic, Giddey's slightly taller. Lonzo shot 31% from three his first year, 33% his second. Know what people were saying about his shot? The same thing they're saying about Giddey's, it was too slow and clunky. He'll never be able to fix it. He rebuilt his shot, exactly what you're saying Gddey can't do. Name two more comparable players to Giddey, since Ball is a bad example. I'll wait. Possibly the best vet in the league for Giddey to learn from. A terrible comparison would be like Haliburton or Fox or Lillard.

What people were saying about Ball's jumper.

https://www.stack.com/a/why-lonzo-balls-shooting-struggles-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-his-unorthodox-form/

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/11/17/lonzo-balls-3-point-shooting-is-better-than-ever-but-about-those-layups/

Since ya'll like to use TS% so much, Giddey's TS% his rookie year was 48%. It's 54% this year. Not great, but come on, that's a huge improvement.

Really you’re going to compare Giddey to Luka and Jokic. Really??? Luka was first team All-NBA and took his team to the WCF. Jokic averaged 18, 10, and 6 on 60%TS and led his team to 47 wins. Those are terrible borderline delusional comparisons no offense. Both of those guys flashed substantially more potential than Giddey at this point in their careers. Giddey looks like a good stats bad team guy at this point. His inability to score not only cripples his ability to affect the game it cripples the team as well. Essentially playing 4 on 5 if the ball isn’t in his hands. LeBron is the greatest SF ever so again terrible comparison because all time greats typically figure it out.

I guess we just disagree on the Lonzo Giddey comparison. They’re not even in the same area code as far as athleticism goes. If he becomes a respectable shooter and continues to learn angles on defense he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. A solid 7th man or spot starter. But defenses don’t respect his jumper at all so he has his work cut out for him. That’s a smart connective passer who can rebound and is neutral on defense. You not changing my mind on this so stop with the Outlandish comparisons. Giddey is not that guy.

What do you think the Bulls should do with Giddey this off season? Pay him a decent extension? Other?

First, never said he was on the same level. The primary difference between him and them being successful is they're better shooters. If Jokic or Luka were poor shooters, they wouldn't be considered NEARLY as valuable. They're more skilled offensively, but that can be learned. It's an example of how unathletic players can make it if they're good shooters. There are tons of other examples of poor athletes, good shooters who have success in the league.

You're acting like Lonzo was considered an athletic guard when he came in. He was not. He's less athletic than most top drafted PG's. Think Giddey is also 2 inches taller, so there's that. And again, all the smart comments, give me a better comparison for Giddey, since Ball is such a horrible comparison. There are 450 players in the league, surely some fit the mold better. I'd love to tear apart your comparison.

Most of that directed at the previous comments, lol.
I think the Bulls should definitely keep Giddey if it's a reasonable price. The whole point of going young is you have to take chances on young guys improving. You'll lose some, but when you win, it changes your franchise. The chance Giddey could develop into a top tier PG, even if it's only 10%, is the same risk we take with draft picks. Giddey's still a better prospect than most of the non-lottery pick guys in this draft. Paying $2-3 mill/yr over what you consider the market value shouldn't be the breaking point.

Right now, salary is below talent acquisition on the Bull's to do list, imo. I don't think any reasonable contract he gets is untradeable, unless he gets hurt.

[PJSteven22]

Is Luka going to become more athletic? Is Jokic? There a lot of players who aren't particularly athletic that excel in the NBA. This is the same logic that had us trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. There are any number of NBA players who have completely changed their shots, many after age 21. Lebron has tinkered with his shot his whole career. Brook Lopez didn't even start shooting 3's until his 7th season and shot 10% and 14% the first two years he tried. Miss me with players can't improve their shooting when his percentage has literally been going up every year. There are no facts to support this. Ball's not athletic now, but he's still a good defender. Much more to half court offense and defense than athleticism.

Lonzo is a great comparison to Giddey, you just don't like it. Similar size, same position. Both good rebounders and passers. Both poor jump shooters when they started. Both got multiple triple-doubles or close many times while young. Ball was slightly more athletic, Giddey's slightly taller. Lonzo shot 31% from three his first year, 33% his second. Know what people were saying about his shot? The same thing they're saying about Giddey's, it was too slow and clunky. He'll never be able to fix it. He rebuilt his shot, exactly what you're saying Gddey can't do. Name two more comparable players to Giddey, since Ball is a bad example. I'll wait. Possibly the best vet in the league for Giddey to learn from. A terrible comparison would be like Haliburton or Fox or Lillard.

What people were saying about Ball's jumper.

https://www.stack.com/a/why-lonzo-balls-shooting-struggles-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-his-unorthodox-form/

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/11/17/lonzo-balls-3-point-shooting-is-better-than-ever-but-about-those-layups/

Since ya'll like to use TS% so much, Giddey's TS% his rookie year was 48%. It's 54% this year. Not great, but come on, that's a huge improvement.

Really you’re going to compare Giddey to Luka and Jokic. Really??? Luka was first team All-NBA and took his team to the WCF. Jokic averaged 18, 10, and 6 on 60%TS and led his team to 47 wins. Those are terrible borderline delusional comparisons no offense. Both of those guys flashed substantially more potential than Giddey at this point in their careers. Giddey looks like a good stats bad team guy at this point. His inability to score not only cripples his ability to affect the game it cripples the team as well. Essentially playing 4 on 5 if the ball isn’t in his hands. LeBron is the greatest SF ever so again terrible comparison because all time greats typically figure it out.

I guess we just disagree on the Lonzo Giddey comparison. They’re not even in the same area code as far as athleticism goes. If he becomes a respectable shooter and continues to learn angles on defense he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. A solid 7th man or spot starter. But defenses don’t respect his jumper at all so he has his work cut out for him. That’s a smart connective passer who can rebound and is neutral on defense. You not changing my mind on this so stop with the Outlandish comparisons. Giddey is not that guy.

What do you think the Bulls should do with Giddey this off season? Pay him a decent extension? Other?

Let the market dictate what he’s worth like Zach Lavine. If there’s no offer 3/36 third year is a team option.

[Infinity2152]

Let's talk turkey. Jimmy Butler just got a 2yr/$121 mill extension, a guy everybody was saying was too old to get that money. If the Bulls let Giddey go to the open market, what's the maximum offer he might get? With a strong finish to this year? $25-30 mill?

Now lets say the Bulls see his market value the way a lot of people in the room see him, around $15-16 mill. They could negotiate early with him and settle at $18 mill. Or he could get the $25 mill offer and they let him go and lose him for nothing.
Was saving $2 mill a year worth losing him and the chance he could be great?

[jump]

His age is irrelevant because a lot of his issues (even in the scoring department) are related to his lack of athleticism. He’s not going to become more athletic. Also he’s has a large enough sample size to safely assume that he’ll never be a good shooter. Especially with his release, it’s way too slow and clunky to be effective. He’d have to start from the ground up and he’d probably end up making his jump shot even worse if he does that.


No disrespect but Lonzo is a terrible comparison to Giddey. Lonzo didn’t put pressure on the rim but he was a pretty good athlete, especially at 22. Giddey was probably a Denzel Valentine level athlete. Just poor all across the board. Also Lonzo had better form on his jumper. Lonzo was already a good shooter by the time he was 22. Lonzo shot 37.5% from deep on 6.3 attempts per game. Not to mention that Lonzo was an all defensive caliber player as well.

[youtube] https://youtu.be/B9q1xVkVM3I?si=1LavC_SaWs3hZThy[/youtube]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/dTX2I7O9e-c?si=j8yNUUlVShqxTD-o[/youtube]

Is Luka going to become more athletic? Is Jokic? There a lot of players who aren't particularly athletic that excel in the NBA. This is the same logic that had us trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. There are any number of NBA players who have completely changed their shots, many after age 21. Lebron has tinkered with his shot his whole career. Brook Lopez didn't even start shooting 3's until his 7th season and shot 10% and 14% the first two years he tried. Miss me with players can't improve their shooting when his percentage has literally been going up every year. There are no facts to support this. Ball's not athletic now, but he's still a good defender. Much more to half court offense and defense than athleticism.

Lonzo is a great comparison to Giddey, you just don't like it. Similar size, same position. Both good rebounders and passers. Both poor jump shooters when they started. Both got multiple triple-doubles or close many times while young. Ball was slightly more athletic, Giddey's slightly taller. Lonzo shot 31% from three his first year, 33% his second. Know what people were saying about his shot? The same thing they're saying about Giddey's, it was too slow and clunky. He'll never be able to fix it. He rebuilt his shot, exactly what you're saying Gddey can't do. Name two more comparable players to Giddey, since Ball is a bad example. I'll wait. Possibly the best vet in the league for Giddey to learn from. A terrible comparison would be like Haliburton or Fox or Lillard.

What people were saying about Ball's jumper.

https://www.stack.com/a/why-lonzo-balls-shooting-struggles-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-his-unorthodox-form/

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/11/17/lonzo-balls-3-point-shooting-is-better-than-ever-but-about-those-layups/

Since ya'll like to use TS% so much, Giddey's TS% his rookie year was 48%. It's 54% this year. Not great, but come on, that's a huge improvement.

Really you’re going to compare Giddey to Luka and Jokic. Really??? Luka was first team All-NBA and took his team to the WCF. Jokic averaged 18, 10, and 6 on 60%TS and led his team to 46 wins. Those are terrible borderline delusional comparisons no offense. Both of those guys flashed substantially more potential than Giddey at this point in their careers. Giddey looks like a good stats bad team guy at this point. His inability to score not only cripples his ability to affect the game it cripples the team as well. Essentially playing 4 on 5 if the ball isn’t in his hands. LeBron is the greatest SF ever so again terrible comparison because all time greats typically figure it out. I never said he can’t improve his jumper I just think it’s unlikely because has mechanics are that jacked up. He has a very slow clunky release and he shoots like a little kid.

I guess we just disagree on the Lonzo Giddey comparison. They’re not even in the same area code as far as athleticism goes. If he becomes a respectable shooter and continues to learn angles on defense he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. A solid 7th man or spot starter. But defenses don’t respect his jumper at all so he has his work cut out for him. That’s a smart connective passer who can rebound and is neutral on defense. You not changing my mind on this so stop with the Outlandish comparisons. Giddey is not that guy. Name me an example of a guard being a below average athlete, shooter, and scorer all of the sudden becoming a star. Don’t worry I’ll wait because that doesn’t exist.

I gotta say I’m in total agreement with Infinity. I think Giddy has a lot of promise and Lonzo is an excellent comparison. Lonzo will always have higher BBIQ, but Giddy can certainly develop a consistent 3ball and become an average defender. With his passing, height and rebounding, that’s a solid starter. Keep him. And he’s only 22.

[Dan Z]

Let's talk turkey. Jimmy Butler just got a 2yr/$121 mill extension, a guy everybody was saying was too old to get that money. If the Bulls let Giddey go to the open market, what's the maximum offer he might get? With a strong finish to this year? $25-30 mill?

Now lets say the Bulls see his market value the way a lot of people in the room see him, around $15-16 mill. They could negotiate early with him and settle at $18 mill. Or he could get the $25 mill offer and they let him go and lose him for nothing.
Was saving $2 mill a year worth losing him and the chance he could be great?

What are the chances that he turns out to be great? Probably slim, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player to have. He's not.

At 18 million you'd sign him? How many years?

I agree with PJ that they should let him test the market. If that means they lose him, then so be it.

[PJSteven22]

Let's talk turkey. Jimmy Butler just got a 2yr/$121 mill extension, a guy everybody was saying was too old to get that money. If the Bulls let Giddey go to the open market, what's the maximum offer he might get? With a strong finish to this year? $25-30 mill?

Now lets say the Bulls see his market value the way a lot of people in the room see him, around $15-16 mill. They could negotiate early with him and settle at $18 mill. Or he could get the $25 mill offer and they let him go and lose him for nothing.
Was saving $2 mill a year worth losing him and the chance he could be great?

Jimmy butler is an All NBA player that lead the Heat to the Finals twice and the conference finals 3 times. Yes he’s older but he’s clutch and he adds another wrinkle to the Warriors offense. With that being said teams are a lot smarter than in the past. Maybe 20 years ago somebody would give him a big offer sheet but not anymore. Most GMs can see right through his production. His essentially a decent stats bad team guy. His stats aren’t even that good outside of rebounds and assists.

[Infinity2152]

He's shooting 34% from 3 this year. This nonsense about teams not respecting his shot, let them. You keep going like he's this terrible shooter, 34% is barely below average. If you think guys guard harder when they know a guy shoots 2.7% (league average) better, okay.

Doesn't make sense that guys might play off him because he's a playmaker. That like many playmakers they have to decide to guard the shot or the pass. Even as an average shooter, defensive players will still be looking for him to pass.

[PJSteven22]

He's shooting 34% from 3 this year. This nonsense about teams not respecting his shot, let them. You keep going like he's this terrible shooter, 34% is barely below average. If you think guys guard harder when they know a guy shoots 2.7% (league average) better, okay.

Do you watch the games? Teams don’t respect his shot. He wide open on most attempts. 34% isn’t nothing to write home about if you’re butt naked open.

[Infinity2152]

He's shooting 34% from 3 this year. This nonsense about teams not respecting his shot, let them. You keep going like he's this terrible shooter, 34% is barely below average. If you think guys guard harder when they know a guy shoots 2.7% (league average) better, okay.

Do you watch the games? Teams don’t respect his shot. He wide open on most attempts. 34% isn’t nothing to write home about if you’re butt naked open.

He's the only playmaker most nights!! So you guard everyone else tighter when he has the ball. Dare him to shoot, make it difficult to pass. Allowing 34% 3pt shooting is not a winning strategy. But it's better than him passing to any of the other starters, He's on the floor with Zach Lavine, Coby White, Patrick Williams, and Vucevic. All are outstanding three point shooters for position. Half the NBA would be the worst three point shooter with those guys.

[PJSteven22]

Is Luka going to become more athletic? Is Jokic? There a lot of players who aren't particularly athletic that excel in the NBA. This is the same logic that had us trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. There are any number of NBA players who have completely changed their shots, many after age 21. Lebron has tinkered with his shot his whole career. Brook Lopez didn't even start shooting 3's until his 7th season and shot 10% and 14% the first two years he tried. Miss me with players can't improve their shooting when his percentage has literally been going up every year. There are no facts to support this. Ball's not athletic now, but he's still a good defender. Much more to half court offense and defense than athleticism.

Lonzo is a great comparison to Giddey, you just don't like it. Similar size, same position. Both good rebounders and passers. Both poor jump shooters when they started. Both got multiple triple-doubles or close many times while young. Ball was slightly more athletic, Giddey's slightly taller. Lonzo shot 31% from three his first year, 33% his second. Know what people were saying about his shot? The same thing they're saying about Giddey's, it was too slow and clunky. He'll never be able to fix it. He rebuilt his shot, exactly what you're saying Gddey can't do. Name two more comparable players to Giddey, since Ball is a bad example. I'll wait. Possibly the best vet in the league for Giddey to learn from. A terrible comparison would be like Haliburton or Fox or Lillard.

What people were saying about Ball's jumper.

https://www.stack.com/a/why-lonzo-balls-shooting-struggles-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-his-unorthodox-form/

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/11/17/lonzo-balls-3-point-shooting-is-better-than-ever-but-about-those-layups/

Since ya'll like to use TS% so much, Giddey's TS% his rookie year was 48%. It's 54% this year. Not great, but come on, that's a huge improvement.

Really you’re going to compare Giddey to Luka and Jokic. Really??? Luka was first team All-NBA and took his team to the WCF. Jokic averaged 18, 10, and 6 on 60%TS and led his team to 46 wins. Those are terrible borderline delusional comparisons no offense. Both of those guys flashed substantially more potential than Giddey at this point in their careers. Giddey looks like a good stats bad team guy at this point. His inability to score not only cripples his ability to affect the game it cripples the team as well. Essentially playing 4 on 5 if the ball isn’t in his hands. LeBron is the greatest SF ever so again terrible comparison because all time greats typically figure it out. I never said he can’t improve his jumper I just think it’s unlikely because has mechanics are that jacked up. He has a very slow clunky release and he shoots like a little kid.

I guess we just disagree on the Lonzo Giddey comparison. They’re not even in the same area code as far as athleticism goes. If he becomes a respectable shooter and continues to learn angles on defense he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. A solid 7th man or spot starter. But defenses don’t respect his jumper at all so he has his work cut out for him. That’s a smart connective passer who can rebound and is neutral on defense. You not changing my mind on this so stop with the Outlandish comparisons. Giddey is not that guy. Name me an example of a guard being a below average athlete, shooter, and scorer all of the sudden becoming a star. Don’t worry I’ll wait because that doesn’t exist.

I gotta say I’m in total agreement with Infinity. I think Giddy has a lot of promise and Lonzo is an excellent comparison. Lonzo will always have higher BBIQ, but Giddy can certainly develop a consistent 3ball and become an average defender. With his passing, height and rebounding, that’s a solid starter. Keep him. And he’s only 22.

Good for you but I don’t see it. Other than them being tall point guards they aren’t that similar. Lonzo Ball on one leg is still a better athlete than Giddey. Lonzo is a more confident shooter.

[PJSteven22]

He's shooting 34% from 3 this year. This nonsense about teams not respecting his shot, let them. You keep going like he's this terrible shooter, 34% is barely below average. If you think guys guard harder when they know a guy shoots 2.7% (league average) better, okay.

Do you watch the games? Teams don’t respect his shot. He wide open on most attempts. 34% isn’t nothing to write home about if you’re butt naked open.

He's the only playmaker most nights!! So you guard everyone else tighter when he has the ball. Dare him to shoot, make it difficult to pass. Allowing 34% 3pt shooting is not a winning strategy. But it's better than him passing to any of the other starters, He's on the floor with Zach Lavine, Coby White, Patrick Williams, and Vucevic. All are outstanding three point shooters for position. Half the NBA would be the worst three point shooter with those guys.

That’s a lie. Coby, Ayo, and Lonzo are playmakers as well. He has to play with the ball in his hands because he’s zero threat if he doesn’t have the ball.

[Infinity2152]

Do you watch the games? Teams don’t respect his shot. He wide open on most attempts. 34% isn’t nothing to write home about if you’re butt naked open.

He's the only playmaker most nights!! So you guard everyone else tighter when he has the ball. Dare him to shoot, make it difficult to pass. Allowing 34% 3pt shooting is not a winning strategy. But it's better than him passing to any of the other starters, He's on the floor with Zach Lavine, Coby White, Patrick Williams, and Vucevic. All are outstanding three point shooters for position. Half the NBA would be the worst three point shooter with those guys.

That’s a lie. Coby, Ayo, and Lonzo are playmakers as well. He has to play with the ball in his hands because he’s zero threat if he doesn’t have the ball.

If Coby and Ayo were playmakers, we wouldn't have traded for Giddey, lol! We wouldn't have died when we lost Ball. Coby has given the Bulls under 4 assists in 30 minutes for his time here. Ayo's at 3.3 assists in 28 minutes. I'm good, we can end this. We disagree, ok.

[PJSteven22]

Really you’re going to compare Giddey to Luka and Jokic. Really??? Luka was first team All-NBA and took his team to the WCF. Jokic averaged 18, 10, and 6 on 60%TS and led his team to 47 wins. Those are terrible borderline delusional comparisons no offense. Both of those guys flashed substantially more potential than Giddey at this point in their careers. Giddey looks like a good stats bad team guy at this point. His inability to score not only cripples his ability to affect the game it cripples the team as well. Essentially playing 4 on 5 if the ball isn’t in his hands. LeBron is the greatest SF ever so again terrible comparison because all time greats typically figure it out.

I guess we just disagree on the Lonzo Giddey comparison. They’re not even in the same area code as far as athleticism goes. If he becomes a respectable shooter and continues to learn angles on defense he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. A solid 7th man or spot starter. But defenses don’t respect his jumper at all so he has his work cut out for him. That’s a smart connective passer who can rebound and is neutral on defense. You not changing my mind on this so stop with the Outlandish comparisons. Giddey is not that guy.

What do you think the Bulls should do with Giddey this off season? Pay him a decent extension? Other?

First, never said he was on the same level. The primary difference between him and them being successful is they're better shooters. If Jokic or Luka were poor shooters, they wouldn't be considered NEARLY as valuable. They're more skilled offensively, but that can be learned. It's an example of how unathletic players can make it if they're good shooters. There are tons of other examples of poor athletes, good shooters who have success in the league.

You're acting like Lonzo was considered an athletic guard when he came in. He was not. He's less athletic than most top drafted PG's. Think Giddey is also 2 inches taller, so there's that. And again, all the smart comments, give me a better comparison for Giddey, since Ball is such a horrible comparison. There are 450 players in the league, surely some fit the mold better. I'd love to tear apart your comparison.

Most of that directed at the previous comments, lol.
I think the Bulls should definitely keep Giddey if it's a reasonable price. The whole point of going young is you have to take chances on young guys improving. You'll lose some, but when you win, it changes your franchise. The chance Giddey could develop into a top tier PG, even if it's only 10%, is the same risk we take with draft picks. Giddey's still a better prospect than most of the non-lottery pick guys in this draft. Paying $2-3 mill/yr over what you consider the market value shouldn't be the breaking point.

Right now, salary is below talent acquisition on the Bull's to do list, imo. I don't think any reasonable contract he gets is untradeable, unless he gets hurt.

It’s kind of irrelevant to bring up Luka and Jokic as an example because he’s simply not nearly as talented as those guys. Those two are future HOFers Giddey as a solid role player as best.

You say that he has a chance to be a top tier PG. let’s look at a list of top tier PGs (in no particular order) and see what they have in common.
1. Luka Doncic
2. Steph
3. Darius Garland
4. Damian Lillard
5. Jalen Brunson
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. SGA
8. Cade Cunningham
9. De’Aaron Fox
10. Ja Morant
11. Tyrese Maxey
12. Trae Young
13. James Harden
14. LaMelo Ball
15. Jamal Murray

Not only they’re threats to facilitate, they all are threats to score and not just score 12-15 points on middling efficiency. They’re threats to score 20 on at least league average efficiency. I’ve said it before he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. He will never be a top level PG.