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Return to Sender: The Mark Williams Thread

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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1281 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Feb 9, 2025 8:51 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:I can't tell if you're actually interested in my thoughts or if you're just being an ****, but it seems like the latter.


Probably both, I am actually genuinely curious to see a positive spin attempt on this

Next time you're curious to hear my thoughts, ask without being an **** and mocking the last time I gave them and maybe I'll be willing to do it


It was a good write up Yosemite. Dude is a troll who loves offering up non stop criticism's for the negative attention. It's the raison d'etre.
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1282 » by KembaWalker » Sun Feb 9, 2025 9:04 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
Probably both, I am actually genuinely curious to see a positive spin attempt on this

Next time you're curious to hear my thoughts, ask without being an **** and mocking the last time I gave them and maybe I'll be willing to do it


It was a good write up Yosemite. Dude is a troll who loves offering up non stop criticism's for the negative attention. It's the raison d'etre.


I give the team plenty of props when they deserve it, they just literally never give me an opportunity
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1283 » by JustBuzzin » Sun Feb 9, 2025 9:38 pm

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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1284 » by Snidely FC » Mon Feb 10, 2025 1:15 pm

First half of an ESPN article about the Lakers Williams Trade, Doncic "handpicked" Williams:
THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS stunned the basketball world by dealing for franchise cornerstone Luka Doncic five days before the NBA trade deadline, and then stunned everyone all over again two days after it when they rescinded their swap for 7-foot center Mark Williams.

For 48 hours, at least, the Lakers existed in the rare competitive territory of improving in the present, for LeBron James, while also fortifying the future of the franchise. It's the state of operation that can make an organization's championship standard a reality.

Just as soon as the transformation set in, the Lakers shifted gears to a different present reality.

At 9:01 p.m. ET Saturday, nearly a week after the Doncic deal was agreed on -- costing Anthony Davis, Max Christie and the Lakers' 2029 first-round pick -- the Williams trade was nixed. Williams was to join the Lakers in exchange for rookie Dalton Knecht and Cam Reddish in a trade with the Charlotte Hornets that was agreed to Wednesday night. But Williams failed L.A.'s physical exam, sources told ESPN's Shams Charania. Williams failed not because of the back injury that sidelined him most of last season, but because of multiple other issues of concern, sources said.

Beyond the awkward reunion when Knecht and Reddish report back to the Lakers (team sources expect both to return in the coming days), the roster's present construction, to quote vice president of basketball operations and general manager Rob Pelinka, "has continued work to do to become complete."

The problem is that the trade deadline has passed. The window is closed. And the situations for James and Doncic suddenly aren't as congruent.

Rather than Pelinka having results to show after his first extended meeting with Doncic at the team's practice facility Feb. 3, when Doncic handpicked Williams for the GM to attempt to land, a source familiar with the matter said, the first transaction of their partnership defaulted.

The team is left with Jaxson Hayes, a springy yet green career backup, as its starting center. The only other big men on the roster are Christian Wood, who has been sidelined all season because of left knee surgery, and two-way contract players Christian Koloko and Trey Jemison III.

Williams, 23, was targeted to not only grow alongside the 25-year-old Doncic, but provide a lob threat and physical presence this postseason to steel L.A.'s frontline against the likes of the Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, Denver Nuggets and Oklahoma City Thunder, team sources said.

A wild week for the franchise, with one team source describing the Lakers' approach as "aggressive," became more of a half measure. The culmination of perhaps the most chaotic, transformational trade deadline in Lakers history has left the team failing in its first attempt to satisfy Doncic -- ever aware that he will become a free agent in 2026 and that L.A. wants to make his decision to sign a contract extension a foregone conclusion -- and failing to maximize James' 22nd season by ultimately not obtaining a big that Pelinka admitted the roster was lacking.

The team's ability to pivot from Williams will be critical for this group's chances, and limiting the fallout will allow L.A. to restore the momentum it has been building in the short term. As for the long term, without Williams but with Knecht and the 2031 first-round pick? "That was a lot [to give up]," a team source said. "We kind of dodged a bullet."

BEFORE THE WILLIAMS trade was agreed to Wednesday night, there was debate inside the Lakers organization about whether he was worth the haul it would take to acquire him -- especially considering his injury history.

Williams has missed nearly two-thirds of the Hornets' games with various back, ankle, knee and foot injuries since being drafted in 2022.

L.A. revamped its medical staff in the offseason, hiring Dr. Leroy Sims as its director of player performance and health after he previously worked for the NBA as the head of the league's medical operations. "We fully vetted [Williams'] health stuff," Pelinka said Thursday. "He's had no surgeries. So these are just parts of, he's still growing into his body. We vetted the injuries he's had, and we're not concerned about those."

Sims' presence, plus coach JJ Redick's confidence in Williams' character after developing a rapport through their alma mater, Duke University, gave the Lakers a belief that they could maximize the big man's talents, team sources said. Kurt Rambis, the Lakers' senior basketball adviser, supported the move as well, pointing out that guys that size don't really come into their bodies until they reach their mid-to-late twenties. "I got to give some credit to Rambo," Pelinka said. "He thinks the upside is very real."

When Williams reported for his physical, however, the team identified additional concerns, sources said, causing the Lakers to reassess the risk of the deal.

Though parting with Knecht and a first-rounder was considered a steep price compared with other deadline deals around the league, Pelinka made the trade, sources said, to establish goodwill with Doncic and improve the current roster. It was, team sources said, an "all in" deadline. Even if the Williams trade fell apart, "it wasn't for lack of trying," one source said. There was also some internal calculus on the real value of that 2031 pick, sources said. Plus, Williams' fit was a necessity, one Lakers source said; Knecht's was a luxury.

The Lakers considered adding bruising 6-10 center Jericho Sims, sources said, before he was moved from New York to Milwaukee on Wednesday for Delon Wright as an addition to the Kyle Kuzma-for-Khris Middleton deal. Sims would have fit the "stuff around the margins" category that Pelinka vowed the team would explore during Doncic's introductory news conference Tuesday because, the GM said, "the market for bigs right now ... is very dry. There's just not a lot available."

Hornets executive vice president of basketball operations Jeff Peterson presented Williams as an option to the Lakers following that news conference, Pelinka said. "This opportunity came to us," Pelinka said Thursday. "Maybe it's in some sense like the L.A. housing market. Not every house is listed. And sometimes you become aware of something that's available that's not on the market. And when you see the perfect house, you're willing to go get it, even if you have to be aggressive to do it. I think that's how we looked at the Mark Williams opportunity when we opened up discussions with Charlotte."

The Hornets, in a statement issued after the trade was rescinded, framed the communication differently. "After the other team aggressively pursued Mark, we made the difficult decision to move him," the statement read.

Even if the Lakers avoided a potential pitfall with Williams' health, the immediate aftermath of reversing the trade has consequences. The team will need to repair its relationship with Knecht, for one. His agents, Anthony Coleman and Mike Lindeman of Excel Sports Management, had no comment on the rescinded deal when reached by ESPN on Saturday. And then there is the perception of fumbled execution by the front office.

"Nobody did the research prior?" a league source said. "Why would [Williams] be available that young?" And the market for big men is now even drier.

Center Alex Len, who was waived by the Washington Wizards, intends to sign with the Indiana Pacers, sources told Charania on Saturday. Len is one player L.A. could have pursued, sources said.

The Lakers can still waive someone -- Wood or Reddish would be the top candidates, team sources said -- to create a roster vacancy to bring in another center. L.A. still has enough room under the second apron to sign a buyout player, someone making less than $12.8 million with his previous team, for the rest of the season. "We will find another center path," a team source said. "The path is always there. We just got to put in the work to find it."

In the interim, Hayes has been a bright spot. During the Lakers' five-game winning streak since Davis left the Philadelphia loss early with an abdominal injury, Hayes has averaged 8.0 points on 77.3% shooting, 6.6 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and 1.0 steals.

It's a major role for him, and one that James had privately wondered whether the 24-year-old Hayes was experienced enough to occupy in a playoff run next to Davis before Davis was traded, sources said. Without Davis, the responsibilities multiply.

Hayes will have Doncic's support, however. He was the first of Doncic's new Lakers teammates to go to dinner with him once he arrived in Los Angeles, as Hayes, Doncic and their mutual agent, Bill Duffy of WME, dined together at Ocean Prime in Beverly Hills.

"When he was in Dallas and I was in New Orleans my first few years, they kept trying to trade for me," Hayes told ESPN on Saturday after posting 9 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks in a win over Indiana with Doncic and James watching on the bench. "New Orleans never allowed it. He was like, 'Do you remember when we couldn't trade for you?' I was like, 'Do you remember what I told you after every game I played against you?' After every game I would be like, 'If you ever need a big, I would love to play with you.' Just because of the way he moves the ball."

How Doncic's and James' opinions align on Hayes will be the first test of their partnership that could last months or go on for years, depending on how the rest of this season pans out.

What is clear is that Doncic will have a say. And it wasn't lost on James' camp, sources said, that Pelinka prioritized Doncic's involvement upon his arrival and immediately engaged in the Williams trade that he'd asked for, when James had for years wanted the team to trade its picks to improve its roster.
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1285 » by Bassman » Mon Feb 10, 2025 1:39 pm

Thanks Snidley, very good read. All of this open to interpretation, but my reading between the lines says there are problem areas with Williams’ knee (or maybe knees), foot and ankle (could also be both or just one) that the Lakers believe will hinder him over time. Collectively these can be chronic, keeping him on the shelf more than on the court, and limiting his effective career trajectory. Deemed the cost too high for the risk and pulled the plug.

Now we have those same risks back in our bucket. Doesn’t mean Mark can’t be a good player, but perhaps can’t be counted on to be part of the core long term.
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1286 » by EmpireFalls » Mon Feb 10, 2025 1:57 pm

I’m sure the ultra transparent NBA reporters as well as the Lakers and Hornets front offices will tell us exactly what happened! Can’t wait!
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1287 » by wilson115 » Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:07 pm

HIPAA would keep anyone from disclosing anything specific about those "additional concerns" though. So we're just left to assume they exist. Sucks.
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1288 » by yosemiteben » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:13 pm

wilson115 wrote:HIPAA would keep anyone from disclosing anything specific about those "additional concerns" though. So we're just left to assume they exist. Sucks.

Not really, any medical information derived from the Hornets medical or training staff is not protected by HIPAA.
https://deadspin.com/do-hipaa-laws-apply-to-athletes-1844195531/

“Usually the team physician is not covered by HIPAA as it relates to the team,” said Lynn Sessions, a partner at BakerHostetler and a healthcare privacy law expert for more than 25 years. “That would essentially be within an employment context that the team physician is providing care to the player, so as it relates to the employer that is a different kind of relationship.”

Athletes though, agree to share health information with their employer (even if the athlete visits an independent medical professional) when they sign a contract with a team. The reason we know so much about these athletes’ injuries on any given day is that once the information is provided to the organization through the athlete, or through the team physician, the organization is free to publicize it. Pro sports teams are not covered entities under HIPAA. Rather, they are merely considered employers. But should they be? After all, teams employ doctors and other health professionals and handle employee medical information in a way other employers don’t.

“A player can authorize the release of their information,” said Luke Fedlam, Head of Sports Law at Porter Wright and Morris LLP and Founder of Anomaly Sports Group. “But when you look at player contracts, there are provisions that say that a player is going to agree to provide the team, coach, trainers, physicians, etc., any notice of injury or illness or medical condition that they’ve suffered.”

Fedlam says these injuries or conditions are usually reported to the player’s agent and then disseminated to the team. Once that happens, information can now be leaked to the media or public without violating HIPAA. But Fedlam doesn’t think all such situations are that cut and dry.

“There are different ways that you can look at information coming to light,” said Fedlam. “If the player goes to receive independent private medical treatment and that information solely rests with that doctor that healthcare system or that hospital and doesn’t share that information with the team or authorize the sharing of that information to anyone else then that information should really stay private.”
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Re: Mark Williams traded to the Lakers 

Post#1289 » by Rich4114 » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:45 pm

MPM wrote:Had a dream last night that Mark failed his Lakers physical.


Did you really post this BEFORE the trade was rescinded due to failed Mark physical?
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1290 » by countryboi » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:54 pm

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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1291 » by KembaWalker » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:54 pm

getting into a media war with Klutch/LA and releasing a bunch of Marks medicals would probably be not in anyones best interest. i dont even wanna know how much $$ this fiasco has cost Mark in future earnings. best thing to do is pretend it never happened, keep treating the kid like hes part of the core and hope he can beat whatever medical odds are against him
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1292 » by yosemiteben » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:56 pm

KembaWalker wrote:getting into a media war with Klutch/LA and releasing a bunch of Marks medicals would probably be not in anyones best interest. i dont even wanna know how much $$ this fiasco has cost Mark in future earnings. best thing to do is pretend it never happened, keep treating the kid like hes part of the core and he can beat whatever medical odds are against him

Don't strongly disagree, but it does seem like there is some reputational risk on CLT's side if LAL wants to frame us as somehow misleading LAL or providing inaccurate or incomplete info.

It does appear like something is going on behind the scenes though:

Read on Twitter


Extra credit for the picture in that lol
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1293 » by KembaWalker » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:01 pm

countryboi wrote:
Read on Twitter


seems like if they rescind, the other team (us) should at least be able to petition for a netural (as if such a thing were possible when we're dealing with the Lakers vs us but alas) 3rd party, considering we also made other deals under the impression that this trade was complete and are now somewhat hamstrung. at the end of the day, the Lakers put a slight dent in their postseason odds in the very short term but we are left screwed us out of a significant asset long term under what could be simply be a difference in one doctors opinion or perhaps something more nefarious (cold feet, bad media reaction etc). i don't think its much to ask for a mutually agreed 3rd party to decide
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1294 » by fatlever » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:16 pm

One thing I think most everyone can agree on, is the NBA needs to put in some more structure and guardrails and oversight into physicals related to traded players. It would make sense to have a third party involved to make sure that there's nothing Shady going on.

Not saying this is what happened, but imagine a scenario where a team just wanted to poison the well between the team and a player offers a incredible Godfather offer for a player knowing they always plan to fail his physical and send him back to the original team and straight up ruin that relationship. Of course that would be diabolical and come with other consequences like other teams finding out what you did and not wanting to trade with you in the future. I'm just saying that there's nothing to prevent this type of behavior from happening.

They also should allow teams to alter trades after the trade deadline if player fails a physical similar to the Caleb Martin trade recently.

Sounds like this will be a talking point during the next CBA.

Other notes, it does to feel like the trade was failed for long-term reasons rather than short-term reasons. So not necessarily saying that Mark isn't capable of playing now, obviously was even if I think there was something visually wrong with his movement. But more so flagging that they did not believe in the long-term future of his health. Which is also probably the same concern the Hornets have long-term about his health.

Assuming the Hornets have the ability or opportunity to repair the relationship with Mark and he would consider a second contract, this certainly has to play into the number that we would be willing to offer.

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Re: Mark Williams traded to the Lakers 

Post#1295 » by MPM » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:18 pm

Rich4114 wrote:
MPM wrote:Had a dream last night that Mark failed his Lakers physical.


Did you really post this BEFORE the trade was rescinded due to failed Mark physical?


Ha. Yep. Day or so before - some weird voodoo going on in the ole noggin.
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1296 » by Kobeskillz » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:26 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:I’m sure the ultra transparent NBA reporters as well as the Lakers and Hornets front offices will tell us exactly what happened! Can’t wait!


To be fair the kid has unfortunately missed like 80% of his games. So its not a stretch to believe that he could go down the road of Greg Oden. Just something structurally wrong with him unfortunately. I like the kid. I hope the Lakers medical staff is wrong.

They do employ the guy that was the main NBA head of medical and they brought in someone from UCLA one of the top in the world. So i'm gonna say for them to cancel this trade and hurt their championship aspirations must mean they found bad news.
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1297 » by SWedd523 » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:31 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:getting into a media war with Klutch/LA and releasing a bunch of Marks medicals would probably be not in anyones best interest. i dont even wanna know how much $$ this fiasco has cost Mark in future earnings. best thing to do is pretend it never happened, keep treating the kid like hes part of the core and he can beat whatever medical odds are against him

Don't strongly disagree, but it does seem like there is some reputational risk on CLT's side if LAL wants to frame us as somehow misleading LAL or providing inaccurate or incomplete info.

It does appear like something is going on behind the scenes though:

Read on Twitter


Extra credit for the picture in that lol

Good luck winning the media battle against LA, LeBron, and the NBA.

All this does is reaffirm my belief to never make deals with LA
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Re: Mark Williams traded to the Lakers 

Post#1298 » by Chapelchilla » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:37 pm

Rich4114 wrote:
MPM wrote:Had a dream last night that Mark failed his Lakers physical.


Did you really post this BEFORE the trade was rescinded due to failed Mark physical?



He did!
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Re: Mark Williams Trade Rescinded, Page 12. 

Post#1299 » by fatlever » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:50 pm

It does feel more and more like a buyers remorse situation, but also several things can be true.

- hornets may not gave disclosed everything, albeit not to be deceitful
- Mark may have concerning issues healthwise/physically long term that could jeopardize his ceiling beyond the next few years
- Lakers got cold feet and used the issues to cancel the trade.

I think all 3 things are true here

Would the Hornets have done this trade without the pick swap and with top 4 protection on the pick if given chance to alter trade to adjust for what lakers flagged. It's a slippery slope to allow a team to force renegotiate trade assets after trade because of medicals... teams will do it as a tactic.






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Re: Mark Williams traded to the Lakers 

Post#1300 » by Braggins » Mon Feb 10, 2025 6:00 pm

MPM wrote:
Rich4114 wrote:
MPM wrote:Had a dream last night that Mark failed his Lakers physical.


Did you really post this BEFORE the trade was rescinded due to failed Mark physical?


Ha. Yep. Day or so before - some weird voodoo going on in the ole noggin.

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