Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[Dan Z]

What do you think the Bulls should do with Giddey this off season? Pay him a decent extension? Other?

First, never said he was on the same level. The primary difference between him and them being successful is they're better shooters. If Jokic or Luka were poor shooters, they wouldn't be considered NEARLY as valuable. They're more skilled offensively, but that can be learned. It's an example of how unathletic players can make it if they're good shooters. There are tons of other examples of poor athletes, good shooters who have success in the league.

You're acting like Lonzo was considered an athletic guard when he came in. He was not. He's less athletic than most top drafted PG's. Think Giddey is also 2 inches taller, so there's that. And again, all the smart comments, give me a better comparison for Giddey, since Ball is such a horrible comparison. There are 450 players in the league, surely some fit the mold better. I'd love to tear apart your comparison.

Most of that directed at the previous comments, lol.
I think the Bulls should definitely keep Giddey if it's a reasonable price. The whole point of going young is you have to take chances on young guys improving. You'll lose some, but when you win, it changes your franchise. The chance Giddey could develop into a top tier PG, even if it's only 10%, is the same risk we take with draft picks. Giddey's still a better prospect than most of the non-lottery pick guys in this draft. Paying $2-3 mill/yr over what you consider the market value shouldn't be the breaking point.

Right now, salary is below talent acquisition on the Bull's to do list, imo. I don't think any reasonable contract he gets is untradeable, unless he gets hurt.

It’s kind of irrelevant to bring up Luka and Jokic as an example because he’s simply not nearly as talented as those guys. Those two are future HOFers Giddey as a solid role player as best.

You say that he has a chance to be a top tier PG. let’s look at a list of top tier PGs (in no particular order) and see what they have in common.
1. Luka Doncic
2. Steph
3. Darius Garland
4. Damian Lillard
5. Jalen Brunson
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. SGA
8. Cade Cunningham
9. De’Aaron Fox
10. Ja Morant
11. Tyrese Maxey
12. Trae Young
13. James Harden
14. LaMelo Ball
15. Jamal Murray

They all are threats to score and not just score 12-15 points on middling efficiency. They’re threats to score 20 on at least league average efficiency. I’ve said it before he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. He will never be a top level PG.

I agree and will add that this is currently his 4th year in the NBA. Chances are this is who he is.

It's one reason why I wanted AK to trade Caruso for picks instead of him, but if they sign him to a reasonable contract (which I doubt they'll do) then he's okay as part of the rotation.

[PJSteven22]

He's the only playmaker most nights!! So you guard everyone else tighter when he has the ball. Dare him to shoot, make it difficult to pass. Allowing 34% 3pt shooting is not a winning strategy. But it's better than him passing to any of the other starters, He's on the floor with Zach Lavine, Coby White, Patrick Williams, and Vucevic. All are outstanding three point shooters for position. Half the NBA would be the worst three point shooter with those guys.

That’s a lie. Coby, Ayo, and Lonzo are playmakers as well. He has to play with the ball in his hands because he’s zero threat if he doesn’t have the ball.

If Coby and Ayo were playmakers, we wouldn't have traded for Giddey, lol! We wouldn't have died when we lost Ball. Coby has given the Bulls under 4 assists in 30 minutes for his time here. Ayo's at 3.3 assists in 28 minutes. I'm good, we can end this. We disagree, ok.

Coby and Ayo can actually break down a defense. Which Giddey can’t because he has a terrible first step also he turns over the ball way too often as well. Also majority of teams have multiple playmakers it’s just that ours aren’t that good.

[dougthonus]

Don't see how the amount of money the average 22 year old makes has to do with his skill progression. If anything, the fact that Giddey is expected to get significantly more would indicate he's better than the average player his age. Age is 100% factored in when evaluating contracts. This whole lobby was saying Jimmy wouldn't/shouldn't get paid because he's too old. Old age matters, but youth does not, apparently.

It also ignores the point. Most advanced comparative statistics will use the average of all players. If the average age is 26.5 or 27, comparing TS%, rebounding rate or any other stat compared to average means a 22-year-old is being compared to NBA players in their prime, around 27. Seems to make sense the average 22-year-old would be below average in many areas if the average age is 27. Those 27-year-olds have 5 more years of experience and skill progression.

Giddey's shooting 34% from three. That's pretty far from being "very poor" at shooting. Player average for 2024 was around 36.7, according to Statmuse. That would mean he needs to hit another 2.7 3s per 100 shots to be average. He averages about 4 3PA a game, so an extra 2-3 makes every 25 games. So you all are expecting absolutely NO improvement in his shooting over the next few years, for some inexplicable reason. Because his shooting has improved every year.

Healthy Ball is worth much more and would get much more than $20 mill a year, lmao! Ball got $20 mill 4 years ago. He also shot 41% from the field, so while his three point shot improved, he wasn't scoring all that efficiently. The salary cap that year was 112 mill, the salary cap for next year is 141 mill. The cap has increased around 25%, so that contract is equivalent to a $25 mill/yr contract today. And Ball had previous injury issues.

We'll see how it goes.

I think you are missing the forest through the trees on Giddey's shooting. It's not the percentage which is in the realm of fine. It's the way the defense completely ignores him and is not punished that causes the problem. The defense chases Lonzo around screens to stop him from getting a 3 point shot. The defense doesn't even put a body on Giddey at the three point line.

Those things make a radical difference in how the rest of your offense runs, and they are not reflected in three point shooting percentage. If Giddey were to start shooting a little better, then maybe teams would kind of stick a body within 15 feet of him instead of playing straight 5 on 4 vs the other guys, but that still would be worse off than a 35% shooter that they actively care about because they know he's a 40%+ shooter if he's left alone.

I hope it works for Giddey, I was a fan of the trade at the time, but I don't see it happening unless he completely reworks his shot, and he acknowledge the problem last year, and he didn't do any work on it this year. There are some shooters that become really good even with very bad mechanics, so maybe he'll fall in that group with enough work, but nothing I've seen to date makes me think that will be true.

I don't want to bother addressing your view of statistic and age, because I disagree pretty strongly with your methodology and any response I give you is going to sound like an insult which I don't really intend. I think your point is simply to say "Giddey is young and can get better", I agree, but based on the way the defense defends him, I think he's a lot further away than 3% indicates, and you are underestimating how much better he needs to get.

I do really hope it works for him, because I can't envision any scenario we don't keep him.

[Jcool0]

Last 10 games: 15.5 ppg on 48/39/78 with 7.1 rebounds, 6.1 assists, 1.2 steals and 0.7 blocks.

[Infinity2152]

What do you think the Bulls should do with Giddey this off season? Pay him a decent extension? Other?

First, never said he was on the same level. The primary difference between him and them being successful is they're better shooters. If Jokic or Luka were poor shooters, they wouldn't be considered NEARLY as valuable. They're more skilled offensively, but that can be learned. It's an example of how unathletic players can make it if they're good shooters. There are tons of other examples of poor athletes, good shooters who have success in the league.

You're acting like Lonzo was considered an athletic guard when he came in. He was not. He's less athletic than most top drafted PG's. Think Giddey is also 2 inches taller, so there's that. And again, all the smart comments, give me a better comparison for Giddey, since Ball is such a horrible comparison. There are 450 players in the league, surely some fit the mold better. I'd love to tear apart your comparison.

Most of that directed at the previous comments, lol.
I think the Bulls should definitely keep Giddey if it's a reasonable price. The whole point of going young is you have to take chances on young guys improving. You'll lose some, but when you win, it changes your franchise. The chance Giddey could develop into a top tier PG, even if it's only 10%, is the same risk we take with draft picks. Giddey's still a better prospect than most of the non-lottery pick guys in this draft. Paying $2-3 mill/yr over what you consider the market value shouldn't be the breaking point.

Right now, salary is below talent acquisition on the Bull's to do list, imo. I don't think any reasonable contract he gets is untradeable, unless he gets hurt.

It’s kind of irrelevant to bring up Luka and Jokic as an example because he’s simply not nearly as talented as those guys. Those two are future HOFers Giddey as a solid role player as best.

You say that he has a chance to be a top tier PG. let’s look at a list of top tier PGs (in no particular order) and see what they have in common.
1. Luka Doncic
2. Steph
3. Darius Garland
4. Damian Lillard
5. Jalen Brunson
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. SGA
8. Cade Cunningham
9. De’Aaron Fox
10. Ja Morant
11. Tyrese Maxey
12. Trae Young
13. James Harden
14. LaMelo Ball
15. Jamal Murray

Not only they’re threats to facilitate, they all are threats to score and not just score 12-15 points on middling efficiency. They’re threats to score 20 on at least league average efficiency. I’ve said it before he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. He will never be a top level PG.

The argument is about paying him more than $15 mill. He doesn't have to be a top tier point guard for that. That's the point. In 2019 Joe Ingles got a $14 mill extension. That's probably close to $18 mill/now. So if he is Joe Ingles, he's worth more than $15 mill.

Those players you posted, some are making $50 mill and pretty much all are max players. So, getting paid two-three times what we're proposing for Giddey. He doesn't have to become a top tier star to be a solid starter. Average pay for a solid starter is around $20 mill. For $18 mill, when you're paying a 22 year old, he clearly has flaws. No perfectly skilled scoring, facilitating, rebounding, defensive 22 year old is getting $18 mill nowadays. They're getting Scottie Barnes contract, who just signed a five year rookie extension worth $270 mill.

Don't care that you think you have a crystal ball and predict that Giddey will be the only player in NBA history that doesn't get better after 22. There's a reason Jokic went in the second round. Because even professionals who do this for a living can't predict who's going to improve. They look at things like athleticism and cap a players potential. Every NBA team had a chance to grab Joker.

[Adriano]

One thing that maybe is not been mention is that when AK make the trade he, and us to be fair, doesnt know If Lonzo will put a foot on a NBA Court again, and If he does, the chances of him be a shadow of 2021 Lonzo was very improbable. He is in his way to retirement when prove the world was wrong (and again, I dont blame AK in this subject, because he wasnt play for 2 years and comeback from a procediment that no one never done in this league before). So in all of our minds in the PG position we got Carter, Ayo and maybe Coby. And thats it. Aside from Carter all combo guards, in a team that already have Zach, Caruso (he wasnt trade yet), the indefinition of DeMar. So I think AK choose that path in the Caruso trade because he doesnt count on Lonzo anymore. And than what? The season starts, Lonzo slowly comeback, and now with rithym he regain big part of his athelticism and speed.

I can only imagine If AK have the slighest Idea that Lonzo will comeback with this level of play, he may be choose another path in the Caruso trade. Now we have an cheap and great Lonzo, and cheap and decent backup Tre Young and we have Ayo for the PG position.

Whats the best case scenario that a good FO maybe do with Giddey? Or explore his market in the offseason for a S&T, or play hardball with him and make him see for himself what offers sheets he received. If he had BKN offering 30 M/Year, good for him, let him walk. Otherwise, like GarPax did with LaVine in 2019, make him sign for what the market is willing to give to him.

But, despite I dont blame AK in the trade for him, I just cant see a guy who gives 2 Firsts for SAS to do a S&T for a player that SAS doesnt want anymore, and give Pat 5/90 without test his value in the FA, I think we should prepare our hearts for a 4/120 ou 5/180 for Giddey in the first day of free agency.

[drosestruts]

I don't think Lonzo's comeback is a reason for us to not need Giddey.

Especially since Lonzo and Giddey are a +12.5 this season per 100 possessions in over 300 minutes played together.

Can we for once maybe listen to what the lineup data is telling us?

[Adriano]

I don't think Lonzo's comeback is a reason for us to not need Giddey.

Especially since Lonzo and Giddey are a +12.5 this season per 100 possessions in over 300 minutes played together.

Can we for once maybe listen to what the lineup data is telling us?

They play well toghether in data and in the eye. But in our situation I think we shouldnt have to commit with any player in long term without being a true piece that will help us to be more than a Play-in team.
With Lonzo, Ayo, Coby and maybe Tre Young for PG position, I just think is better give the money for a starting caliber C or PF, or even SF.

[MrSparkle]

Zach’s gone. He has a chance to pump his numbers.

Will he? Probably not.

Like Pat, why will this team risk overpaying above market value when the conditions are there for testing their actual worth?

[League Circles]

First, never said he was on the same level. The primary difference between him and them being successful is they're better shooters. If Jokic or Luka were poor shooters, they wouldn't be considered NEARLY as valuable. They're more skilled offensively, but that can be learned. It's an example of how unathletic players can make it if they're good shooters. There are tons of other examples of poor athletes, good shooters who have success in the league.

You're acting like Lonzo was considered an athletic guard when he came in. He was not. He's less athletic than most top drafted PG's. Think Giddey is also 2 inches taller, so there's that. And again, all the smart comments, give me a better comparison for Giddey, since Ball is such a horrible comparison. There are 450 players in the league, surely some fit the mold better. I'd love to tear apart your comparison.

Most of that directed at the previous comments, lol.
I think the Bulls should definitely keep Giddey if it's a reasonable price. The whole point of going young is you have to take chances on young guys improving. You'll lose some, but when you win, it changes your franchise. The chance Giddey could develop into a top tier PG, even if it's only 10%, is the same risk we take with draft picks. Giddey's still a better prospect than most of the non-lottery pick guys in this draft. Paying $2-3 mill/yr over what you consider the market value shouldn't be the breaking point.

Right now, salary is below talent acquisition on the Bull's to do list, imo. I don't think any reasonable contract he gets is untradeable, unless he gets hurt.

It’s kind of irrelevant to bring up Luka and Jokic as an example because he’s simply not nearly as talented as those guys. Those two are future HOFers Giddey as a solid role player as best.

You say that he has a chance to be a top tier PG. let’s look at a list of top tier PGs (in no particular order) and see what they have in common.
1. Luka Doncic
2. Steph
3. Darius Garland
4. Damian Lillard
5. Jalen Brunson
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. SGA
8. Cade Cunningham
9. De’Aaron Fox
10. Ja Morant
11. Tyrese Maxey
12. Trae Young
13. James Harden
14. LaMelo Ball
15. Jamal Murray

Not only they’re threats to facilitate, they all are threats to score and not just score 12-15 points on middling efficiency. They’re threats to score 20 on at least league average efficiency. I’ve said it before he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. He will never be a top level PG.

The argument is about paying him more than $15 mill. He doesn't have to be a top tier point guard for that. That's the point. In 2019 Joe Ingles got a $14 mill extension. That's probably close to $18 mill/now. So if he is Joe Ingles, he's worth more than $15 mill.

Those players you posted, some are making $50 mill and pretty much all are max players. So, getting paid two-three times what we're proposing for Giddey. He doesn't have to become a top tier star to be a solid starter. Average pay for a solid starter is around $20 mill. For $18 mill, when you're paying a 22 year old, he clearly has flaws. No perfectly skilled scoring, facilitating, rebounding, defensive 22 year old is getting $18 mill nowadays. They're getting Scottie Barnes contract, who just signed a five year rookie extension worth $270 mill.

Don't care that you think you have a crystal ball and predict that Giddey will be the only player in NBA history that doesn't get better after 22. There's a reason Jokic went in the second round. Because even professionals who do this for a living can't predict who's going to improve. They look at things like athleticism and cap a players potential. Every NBA team had a chance to grab Joker.

Maybe Joe Ingles should have never been given that deal?

IMO, you have to look at what guys would / should be worth on a great team to figure out how they should be paid. If Giddey was on a great team he'd most likely be a 15-20 mpg bench player and make no more than the MLE.

I would say, generally speaking, if you're rebuilding a bad team which is what we're doing, you shouldn't sign ANY players to multi year deals unless one of two things is true:

1. They project as a clear above average starter - which means clear top 10-15 at their position long term.

2. You're getting someone who COULD start, if needed, and do a pretty good job, but at backup money, so as to free up huge money for high level player(s) at other positions. Ball's new deal, Jalen Smith and Ayo are probably examples of this.

[League Circles]

I don't think Lonzo's comeback is a reason for us to not need Giddey.

Especially since Lonzo and Giddey are a +12.5 this season per 100 possessions in over 300 minutes played together.

Can we for once maybe listen to what the lineup data is telling us?

The lineup data should be considered, but I think all Ball's signing does is lessen our need for Giddey. Gives us leverage. Doesn't mean we should let him walk, but it does decrease the price at which we should let him walk.

We have 3 different guys who can play point already under contract next year in Ball, Coby and Ayo. None of the 4 are close to what we'd really want, but Giddey doesn't really separate himself in that group, which isn't much of a comparison anyways because Giddey is a 3/4 and the others are basically playing the 1/2.

Also, 300 minutes really isn't much at all.

[kodo]

Zach’s gone. He has a chance to pump his numbers.

His scoring maybe but at the cost of his assists which makes him less valuable as a RFA IMO, as that's why anyone would want Giddey as an assist machine.

Since Lavine's been out he's been 17 ppg 6 rpg 5 apg, 47% FG and 37% 3P with 2.0 stocks in lowish starter minutes.

Both his assist & rebounds are down from when he plays with Lavine. Being one of the primary scorers isn't ideal for him IMO, but seems like a temporary situation either in Chicago or another team. Still, decent #s post Lavine.

[Chi town]

I don't think Lonzo's comeback is a reason for us to not need Giddey.

Especially since Lonzo and Giddey are a +12.5 this season per 100 possessions in over 300 minutes played together.

Can we for once maybe listen to what the lineup data is telling us?

The lineup data should be considered, but I think all Ball's signing does is lessen our need for Giddey. Gives us leverage. Doesn't mean we should let him walk, but it does decrease the price at which we should let him walk.

We have 3 different guys who can play point already under contract next year in Ball, Coby and Ayo. None of the 4 are close to what we'd really want, but Giddey doesn't really separate himself in that group, which isn't much of a comparison anyways because Giddey is a 3/4 and the others are basically playing the 1/2.

Also, 300 minutes really isn't much at all.

Totally agree Zo gives us leverage in Giddey negotiations.

Giddey and Zo are fun to watch play together. Ball flies around.

[drosestruts]

I don't think Lonzo's comeback is a reason for us to not need Giddey.

Especially since Lonzo and Giddey are a +12.5 this season per 100 possessions in over 300 minutes played together.

Can we for once maybe listen to what the lineup data is telling us?

The lineup data should be considered, but I think all Ball's signing does is lessen our need for Giddey. Gives us leverage. Doesn't mean we should let him walk, but it does decrease the price at which we should let him walk.

We have 3 different guys who can play point already under contract next year in Ball, Coby and Ayo. None of the 4 are close to what we'd really want, but Giddey doesn't really separate himself in that group, which isn't much of a comparison anyways because Giddey is a 3/4 and the others are basically playing the 1/2.

Also, 300 minutes really isn't much at all.

Just to give the 310 minutes context.

That's the third-highest shared minutes between Ball and any other player this season:

1. Ball + Vuc 484 minutes and a +7.6 per 100 possessions
2. Ball + Zach 389 minutes and a +11.3 per 100 possessions
3. Ball + Giddey 310 minutes and a +12.5 per 100 possessions


So when looking at Ball specifically it is a significant amount of minutes.

[jnrjr79]

Let's talk turkey. Jimmy Butler just got a 2yr/$121 mill extension, a guy everybody was saying was too old to get that money. If the Bulls let Giddey go to the open market, what's the maximum offer he might get? With a strong finish to this year? $25-30 mill?

Now lets say the Bulls see his market value the way a lot of people in the room see him, around $15-16 mill. They could negotiate early with him and settle at $18 mill. Or he could get the $25 mill offer and they let him go and lose him for nothing.
Was saving $2 mill a year worth losing him and the chance he could be great?

Thing is, there is only one team projected to have any real cap space next offseason, so his market is probably capped at the MLE, barring a sign-and-trade.

[Jcool0]

Let's talk turkey. Jimmy Butler just got a 2yr/$121 mill extension, a guy everybody was saying was too old to get that money. If the Bulls let Giddey go to the open market, what's the maximum offer he might get? With a strong finish to this year? $25-30 mill?

Now lets say the Bulls see his market value the way a lot of people in the room see him, around $15-16 mill. They could negotiate early with him and settle at $18 mill. Or he could get the $25 mill offer and they let him go and lose him for nothing.
Was saving $2 mill a year worth losing him and the chance he could be great?

Thing is, there is only one team projected to have any real cap space next offseason, so his market is probably capped at the MLE, barring a sign-and-trade.

10 teams will have the cap space to sign Giddey. Probably more after off season moves.

[jnrjr79]

Let's talk turkey. Jimmy Butler just got a 2yr/$121 mill extension, a guy everybody was saying was too old to get that money. If the Bulls let Giddey go to the open market, what's the maximum offer he might get? With a strong finish to this year? $25-30 mill?

Now lets say the Bulls see his market value the way a lot of people in the room see him, around $15-16 mill. They could negotiate early with him and settle at $18 mill. Or he could get the $25 mill offer and they let him go and lose him for nothing.
Was saving $2 mill a year worth losing him and the chance he could be great?

Thing is, there is only one team projected to have any real cap space next offseason, so his market is probably capped at the MLE, barring a sign-and-trade.

10 teams will have the cap space to sign Giddey. Probably more after off season moves.

The Athletic projects 4 teams to have cap space and only 2 that would likely be able to open up a max slot (which presumably would not be for Giddey).

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5714488/2024/08/27/nba-salary-cap-preseason-outlook-free-agents-extensions/

[PJSteven22]

First, never said he was on the same level. The primary difference between him and them being successful is they're better shooters. If Jokic or Luka were poor shooters, they wouldn't be considered NEARLY as valuable. They're more skilled offensively, but that can be learned. It's an example of how unathletic players can make it if they're good shooters. There are tons of other examples of poor athletes, good shooters who have success in the league.

You're acting like Lonzo was considered an athletic guard when he came in. He was not. He's less athletic than most top drafted PG's. Think Giddey is also 2 inches taller, so there's that. And again, all the smart comments, give me a better comparison for Giddey, since Ball is such a horrible comparison. There are 450 players in the league, surely some fit the mold better. I'd love to tear apart your comparison.

Most of that directed at the previous comments, lol.
I think the Bulls should definitely keep Giddey if it's a reasonable price. The whole point of going young is you have to take chances on young guys improving. You'll lose some, but when you win, it changes your franchise. The chance Giddey could develop into a top tier PG, even if it's only 10%, is the same risk we take with draft picks. Giddey's still a better prospect than most of the non-lottery pick guys in this draft. Paying $2-3 mill/yr over what you consider the market value shouldn't be the breaking point.

Right now, salary is below talent acquisition on the Bull's to do list, imo. I don't think any reasonable contract he gets is untradeable, unless he gets hurt.

It’s kind of irrelevant to bring up Luka and Jokic as an example because he’s simply not nearly as talented as those guys. Those two are future HOFers Giddey as a solid role player as best.

You say that he has a chance to be a top tier PG. let’s look at a list of top tier PGs (in no particular order) and see what they have in common.
1. Luka Doncic
2. Steph
3. Darius Garland
4. Damian Lillard
5. Jalen Brunson
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. SGA
8. Cade Cunningham
9. De’Aaron Fox
10. Ja Morant
11. Tyrese Maxey
12. Trae Young
13. James Harden
14. LaMelo Ball
15. Jamal Murray

Not only they’re threats to facilitate, they all are threats to score and not just score 12-15 points on middling efficiency. They’re threats to score 20 on at least league average efficiency. I’ve said it before he’s Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. He will never be a top level PG.

The argument is about paying him more than $15 mill. He doesn't have to be a top tier point guard for that. That's the point. In 2019 Joe Ingles got a $14 mill extension. That's probably close to $18 mill/now. So if he is Joe Ingles, he's worth more than $15 mill.

Those players you posted, some are making $50 mill and pretty much all are max players. So, getting paid two-three times what we're proposing for Giddey. He doesn't have to become a top tier star to be a solid starter. Average pay for a solid starter is around $20 mill. For $18 mill, when you're paying a 22 year old, he clearly has flaws. No perfectly skilled scoring, facilitating, rebounding, defensive 22 year old is getting $18 mill nowadays. They're getting Scottie Barnes contract, who just signed a five year rookie extension worth $270 mill.

Don't care that you think you have a crystal ball and predict that Giddey will be the only player in NBA history that doesn't get better after 22. There's a reason Jokic went in the second round. Because even professionals who do this for a living can't predict who's going to improve. They look at things like athleticism and cap a players potential. Every NBA team had a chance to grab Joker.

The point is that it’s highly unlikely that he breaks in into the top half of starting PGs in the NBA unless he has some outlier development. It also shows how much he has to improve just to be in the conversation because the PG position is really deep. Honestly I think he has to play SF and continue to work on his jumper and defense and he’ll be a solid rotation player on a winning team. I just think you’re better off looking at the draft for a starting PG.

To answer your question he’s probably not worth anything more than the MLE. You mention that Ingles got a 14 million dollar aav that’s an overpay but I’d also mention that teams loved his intangibles whereas Josh Giddey doesn’t have that veteran presence yet.

I will acknowledge that I don’t have a crystal ball but let me ask you one question. What player had below average athleticism, shooting, finishing, scoring, defense, and was turnover prone all of a sudden become a top half at his position? He just has too many holes in his game to fix to become that caliber of player. Also I need said he can’t improve. I just think his physical limitations are too much to overcome combined with his lack of scoring ability and his defense. We’ll see how it goes for him.

Stop bringing up Jokic, it makes your argument invalid and baseless. It’s just like when people used to bring up Kawhi when talking about Patrick Williams.

[Jcool0]

Thing is, there is only one team projected to have any real cap space next offseason, so his market is probably capped at the MLE, barring a sign-and-trade.

10 teams will have the cap space to sign Giddey. Probably more after off season moves.

The Athletic projects 4 teams to have cap space and only 2 that would likely be able to open up a max slot (which presumably would not be for Giddey).

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5714488/2024/08/27/nba-salary-cap-preseason-outlook-free-agents-extensions/

Why are you posting an article from August about 2025 cap? Maybe something not completely out of date.

[jnrjr79]

10 teams will have the cap space to sign Giddey. Probably more after off season moves.

The Athletic projects 4 teams to have cap space and only 2 that would likely be able to open up a max slot (which presumably would not be for Giddey).

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5714488/2024/08/27/nba-salary-cap-preseason-outlook-free-agents-extensions/

Why are you posting an article from August about 2025 cap? Maybe something not completely out of date.

Feel free to cite your own data rather than just pulling stuff out of you-know-where, then.