Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Sign Pete Nance to 2-way

crowhead76 · Post #1081 » by **crowhead76** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:38 pm

Any interest in Jalen McDaniels?

emunney · Post #1082 » by **emunney** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:47 pm

EasyE31 wrote:Watching yesterday's game I was struck at how different Dame plays without Giannis. Going on two full seasons here and he still hasn't figured out how to play aggressively with Giannis on the floor. Why has that been so hard for them to unlock?

Because when Giannis is in the game, the entire defense sucks into the paint. You HAVE to move the ball to find driving lanes (for people who aren't Giannis), it's not enough to just set a high ball screen.

emunney · Post #1083 » by **emunney** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:52 pm

Personally think we should start Green in place of Prince and slide Dre up. When Giannis comes back, Dre goes to the bench, and you bring him in immediately if the starters come out flat.

BigO · Post #1084 » by **BigO** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:54 pm

One general comment. I don't buy the blame on Doc. He has so many experienced coaches on his bench that there probably hasn't been a scenario that hasn't been discussed.

This team is flawed and now even more so. They haven't been able to stop dribble penetration for a long time, because of personnel. Do any of you really think that a coach can scheme a way to make up for bad defensive guards?

There's plenty of lineup questions I have of Doc, but at the end of the day (as Giannis would say), the game is won and lost by the quality of players.

Siefer · Post #1085 » by **Siefer** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:13 pm

I think Doc's done a number of good things this year. The defense is solid to good again - defensive rebounding and transition defense in particular are much improved. He brought organization to the offense, and has slowly but surely figured out that Dame needs higher screens and more space. I think he runs a stodgy offense though, and the starting unit has been suffering all year for the two blanks it has on offense. Prince is just an innings eater, and Dre is often going unguarded. It's all exacerbated by a maddening tendency to get into action slowly, and bail out into an iso at the first sign of trouble.

emunney · Post #1086 » by **emunney** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:20 pm

Siefer wrote:I think Doc's done a number of good things this year. The defense is solid to good again - defensive rebounding and transition defense in particular are much improved. He brought organization to the offense, and has slowly but surely figured out that Dame needs higher screens and more space. I think he runs a stodgy offense though, and the starting unit has been suffering all year for the two blanks it has on offense. Prince is just an innings eater, and Dre is often going unguarded. It's all exacerbated by a maddening tendency to get into action slowly, and bail out into an iso at the first sign of trouble.

Yeah, if they're going to play Dre, they have to get him flashing to space where he can make a quick pass, and Dre has got to be more aggressive going to the rim. I almost feel like we have to bring back Thanasis just so he can be in Dre's ear saying, "YOU GOT TO DUNK THAT. YOU GOT TO DUNK EVERYTHING." Dre in space is dangerous -- he knows it when he's in transition, it's got to be maddening for the coaches that he forgets in the half court.

EasyE31 · Post #1087 » by **EasyE31** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:22 pm

emunney wrote:Personally think we should start Green in place of Prince and slide Dre up. When Giannis comes back, Dre goes to the bench, and you bring him in immediately if the starters come out flat.

The idea that AJAX has some mythical ability to impact the energy that the starters play with has always been silly. Just stop.

emunney · Post #1088 » by **emunney** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:23 pm

EasyE31 wrote:
emunney wrote:Personally think we should start Green in place of Prince and slide Dre up. When Giannis comes back, Dre goes to the bench, and you bring him in immediately if the starters come out flat.

The idea that AJAX has some mythical ability to impact the energy that the starters play with has always been silly. Just stop.

Pushing 62,000 posts, you think I could stop even if I wanted to?

Ron Swanson · Post #1089 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:26 pm

We were a Top-5 three-point attempt offense every year except one (8th in 2021), and this was mostly with Bledsoe/Jrue/Donte type backcourts mucking up the spacing at times. We're 14th this season despite being 2nd in efficiency. That's scheme and that's coaching. Biggest gripe continues to be that Doc seemingly only empowers guys to "let it fly" in these games where Giannis sits out. Zero excuses for any team built around Giannis' interior gravity to not be at least Top-10 in attempts. This is why we're only barely an above-average offense (12th).

Siefer · Post #1090 » by **Siefer** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:35 pm

I think Doc's model for Dame and Giannis is CP3 and Blake, and it's a bad model. The saving grace is that if the Dame/Giannis two-man game is a trump card in a matchup, we will absolutely bludgeon someone to death with it.

pifhluk23 · Post #1091 » by **pifhluk23** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:36 pm

EasyE31 wrote:Watching yesterday's game I was struck at how different Dame plays without Giannis. Going on two full seasons here and he still hasn't figured out how to play aggressively with Giannis on the floor. Why has that been so hard for them to unlock?

Giannis isn't great off ball, you certainly don't have to guard him at the 3p line. And you can go under all of his screens. Dame is also too short to throw the pass off the pick n roll against all the long boi defenders that are out there now. 10 years ago these 2 would be feasting.

Post #1092 » by **Prez** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:49 pm

Imo a big chunk of the Giannis/Dame weirdness is literally just Doc playing suboptimal lineups, namely starting Andre. Who I like long term but right now is a problem offensively.

- Giannis/Dame lineups without Dre (528 minutes): +10 net rating, 122.5 ORTG and 112.5 DRTG
- Giannis/Dame lineups with Dre (436 minutes): -2.5 net rating, 114.7 ORTG and 117.2 DRTG

In contrast...

- Giannis/Dame with AJ Green and no Dre (204 minutes): +16.7 net rating, 122.1 ORTG and 105.4 DRTG

It makes zero sense what we're doing. And I don't want to just rip on Andre, Prince shouldn't be near a starting lineup either. Assuming Kuzma is the starter moving forward even when Giannis is back, it should be Dame/Green (or GTJ)/Kuzma/Giannis/Brook. But I have next to no confidence that Doc actually recognizes this and will change it.

Ron Swanson · Post #1093 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 4:58 pm

Prez wrote:Imo a big chunk of the Giannis/Dame weirdness is literally just Doc playing suboptimal lineups, namely starting Andre. Who I like long term but right now is a problem offensively.

- Giannis/Dame lineups without Dre (528 minutes): +10 net rating, 122.5 ORTG and 112.5 DRTG
- Giannis/Dame lineups with Dre (436 minutes): -2.5 net rating, 114.7 ORTG and 117.2 DRTG

In contrast...

- Giannis/Dame with AJ Green and no Dre (204 minutes): +16.7 net rating, 122.1 ORTG and 105.4 DRTG

It makes zero sense what we're doing. And I don't want to just rip on Andre, Prince shouldn't be near a starting lineup either. Assuming Kuzma is the starter moving forward even when Giannis is back, it should be Dame/Green (or GTJ)/Kuzma/Giannis/Brook. But I have next to no confidence that Doc actually recognizes this and will change it.

Yep, the offense and overall net-rating last year were great (119.9, +15.6) even when they replaced Middleton in the lineup with washed Jae Crowder. Doc not understanding that it's literally as simple as putting two good corner-3 shooters next to Dame/Giannis/Brook is gonna continue to hold us back. AJ and Trent are 53.8% (lol) and 50% from the corners this season respectively. Beyond stupid to still be trotting Andre out there. Shades of Skiles playing Marquis Daniels and Kidd playing DeAndre Liggins. Just stop sabotaging your own offense.

jimmybones · Post #1094 » by **jimmybones** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:13 pm

emunney wrote:Personally think we should start Green in place of Prince and slide Dre up. When Giannis comes back, Dre goes to the bench, and you bring him in immediately if the starters come out flat.

I dig this

Dame, Green, Kuzma, Giannis, Brook is the obvious best starting unit

If; then

If energy is needed; insert Ajax
If scoring punch is needed; insert Bobby, Trent or KPJ
If ball handling is needed; insert KPJ or Rollins
If (???) is needed; insert Prince
If touching a forehead to the rim is needed; insert Sims

JayMKE · Post #1095 » by **JayMKE** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:19 pm

It seems clear neither Dame or Giannis are comfortable playing off the ball or deferring to each other, they have more pressure to “get theirs” when forced to share that role which leads to an iso heavy turns taking offense. I don’t think this is going to change, the idea Giannis is going to be Amare on offense & be the full time 5 is about as realistic as Dame being Steve Nash on offense and playing defense for the first time in his career in his mid 30s. The fit is just fundamentally bad and it would be wise to move on in the offseason, can’t force square peg into a round hole.

jimmybones · Post #1096 » by **jimmybones** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:21 pm

EasyE31 wrote:
emunney wrote:Personally think we should start Green in place of Prince and slide Dre up. When Giannis comes back, Dre goes to the bench, and you bring him in immediately if the starters come out flat.

The idea that AJAX has some mythical ability to impact the energy that the starters play with has always been silly. Just stop.

The contagious factor is more of a welcome side effect if it happens but not the point, it's about inserting what is missing to the unit (energy) so that it is no longer missing

Ron Swanson · Post #1097 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:25 pm

The "fit" wasn't bad last season though and the numbers 100% prove it. You guys decide what the common denominator is here.

emunney · Post #1098 » by **emunney** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:28 pm

Prez wrote:Imo a big chunk of the Giannis/Dame weirdness is literally just Doc playing suboptimal lineups, namely starting Andre. Who I like long term but right now is a problem offensively.

- Giannis/Dame lineups without Dre (528 minutes): +10 net rating, 122.5 ORTG and 112.5 DRTG
- Giannis/Dame lineups with Dre (436 minutes): -2.5 net rating, 114.7 ORTG and 117.2 DRTG

In contrast...

- Giannis/Dame with AJ Green and no Dre (204 minutes): +16.7 net rating, 122.1 ORTG and 105.4 DRTG

It makes zero sense what we're doing. And I don't want to just rip on Andre, Prince shouldn't be near a starting lineup either. Assuming Kuzma is the starter moving forward even when Giannis is back, it should be Dame/Green (or GTJ)/Kuzma/Giannis/Brook. But I have next to no confidence that Doc actually recognizes this and will change it.

Having Green out there with Dame and Giannis is key. It spreads the defense thin to have a guy on the weakside who makes 3s at such a rate that it's in the same risk family as Giannis single-covered in the paint.

Siefer · Post #1099 » by **Siefer** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:50 pm

I've mentioned this before, but Prince's 3P% is largely smoke. He's taking 3.9 per game, and can only get off stationary threes with a bunch of time and space. It's not nothing, but it's not a significant tax on defenses. They can largely ignore him and live with Prince hitting his two threes over the course of 26 minutes. They can't live with the avalanche Green is capable of.

Post #1100 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:58 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:The "fit" wasn't bad last season though and the numbers 100% prove it. You guys decide what the common denominator is here.

There are two ways to look at this.

1 - They both haven't been healthy together enough, including playoffs. So we need to see the playoffs this year. Which we're going to do. (and Doc's lineups with them have sucked)

2 - You've got two top 75 players yet their collective record together only flutters a couple games above .500. And each guy seems to thrive when the other one is out injured.