PG: why are you still watching the Celtics pound the Knicks at MSG?

[nedleeds]

Brilliant of Thibs to save his challenges for next game.

Probably wouldn't have been overturned but he has to challenge that deuce foul on Pritchard in the 3rd.

He thinks you get the leftovers in the mail after the game. Then you can fax them in for extra challenges.

[thebuzzardman]

Sometimes you just forget a game happened and move on, this is one of those times, it doesn’t define us

It absolutely defines them. It exposes them as 2nd round exit team, at best.

Also, that they cannot afford an injury to any of it's 6 six rotation players, yet at least 2 of them are VERY injury prone. '


It's a house of cards. Enjoy the rest of the suboptimal season.

At least it's not the Isiah years.
Sort of.

[nedleeds]

Can’t wait to ship these guys out for Giannis

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Giannis is 2 years away and a knee injury from being completely cooked. He's had 12 years to learn how to shoot a basketball. 18% from 3 is career worst, 57% from the line is career worst.

No chance he just gets better by getting older and less explosive, while all his shooting stats make RJ look like **** Ray Allen.

[nedleeds]

Sometimes you just forget a game happened and move on, this is one of those times, it doesn’t define us

It absolutely defines them. It exposes them as 2nd round exit team, at best.

Also, that they cannot afford an injury to any of it's 6 six rotation players, yet at least 2 of them are VERY injury prone. '


It's a house of cards. Enjoy the rest of the suboptimal season.

At least it's not the Isiah years.
Sort of.

[thebuzzardman]

Last year and the few years before that the Knicks were kind of a fraud good team.

They had to have not too many injuries and then also play at the top of their game, no room for error, nearly every game.

Now, they've raised the talent level enough where they can win on talent even when they don't bring their A game. Against bad and middling teams. It's an actual improvement.

However, they have zero margin for error against good teams. No one out, no one hobbling, 100% execution. Then they can beat playoff teams, but not the top 3 playoff teams.

That's what using all the assets got the Knicks to.
They are good.
They aren't really competitive.
In 5 years they will suck and won't have picks so it'll be the Isiah years all over again, truly.

So, having an ok basketball team for 7 years or so is nice. Sort of.


*The above ignores the fact that 2/5ths of their thin team is incredibly injury prone. So the Knicks will in fact suck badly for significant stretches of the next 5 years.

Actually, who cares.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Brilliant of Thibs to save his challenges for next game.

Probably wouldn't have been overturned but he has to challenge that deuce foul on Pritchard in the 3rd.

this part. refs would have been able to lean on that hip contact. if you're close and it might be a close game down the stretch, that's not an easy challenge to burn.

and, of course, "f--- idiot! we could have used that later! rawrrr" when you lose that challenge.

just wish they didn't call it in the first place.

got 30 more. will need to be better. as great as we've been, still working on it all.

[nedleeds]

Last year and the few years before that the Knicks were kind of a fraud good team.

They had to have not too many injuries and then also play at the top of their game, no room for error, nearly every game.

Now, they've raised the talent level enough where they can win on talent even when they don't bring their A game. Against bad and middling teams. It's an actual improvement.

However, they have zero margin for error against good teams. No one out, no one hobbling, 100% execution. Then they can beat playoff teams, but not the top 3 playoff teams.

That's what using all the assets got the Knicks to.
They are good.
They aren't really competitive.
In 5 years they will suck and won't have picks so it'll be the Isiah years all over again, truly.

So, having an ok basketball team for 7 years or so is nice. Sort of.


*The above ignores the fact that 2/5ths of their thin team is incredibly injury prone. So the Knicks will in fact suck badly for significant stretches of the next 5 years.

Actually, who cares.

[KnixinSix]

Last year and the few years before that the Knicks were kind of a fraud good team.

They had to have not too many injuries and then also play at the top of their game, no room for error, nearly every game.

Now, they've raised the talent level enough where they can win on talent even when they don't bring their A game. Against bad and middling teams. It's an actual improvement.

However, they have zero margin for error against good teams. No one out, no one hobbling, 100% execution. Then they can beat playoff teams, but not the top 3 playoff teams.

That's what using all the assets got the Knicks to.
They are good.
They aren't really competitive.
In 5 years they will suck and won't have picks so it'll be the Isiah years all over again, truly.

So, having an ok basketball team for 7 years or so is nice. Sort of.


*The above ignores the fact that 2/5ths of their thin team is incredibly injury prone. So the Knicks will in fact suck badly for significant stretches of the next 5 years.

Actually, who cares.

Or Thibs pretty rigid system relies on a truly high level rim protector much moreso than other systems. Watching his scheme for 4+ years now this really seems like the biggest issue.

So this is where Mitch becomes a big piece of the puzzle.

And not having OG could be a big reason why one of Tatum/Brown went off too.

To me this is the hope anyways bc short of this we need a better coach to get the most out of this squad.

Kind of like Cavs when they upgraded to Atkinson

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Last year and the few years before that the Knicks were kind of a fraud good team.

They had to have not too many injuries and then also play at the top of their game, no room for error, nearly every game.

Now, they've raised the talent level enough where they can win on talent even when they don't bring their A game. Against bad and middling teams. It's an actual improvement.

However, they have zero margin for error against good teams. No one out, no one hobbling, 100% execution. Then they can beat playoff teams, but not the top 3 playoff teams.

That's what using all the assets got the Knicks to.
They are good.
They aren't really competitive.
In 5 years they will suck and won't have picks so it'll be the Isiah years all over again, truly.

So, having an ok basketball team for 7 years or so is nice. Sort of.


*The above ignores the fact that 2/5ths of their thin team is incredibly injury prone. So the Knicks will in fact suck badly for significant stretches of the next 5 years.

Actually, who cares.

Or Thibs pretty rigid system relies on a truly high level rim protector much moreso than other systems. Watching his scheme for 4+ years now this really seems like the biggest issue.

So this is where Mitch becomes a big piece of the puzzle.

And not having OG could be a big reason why one of Tatum/Brown went off too.

To me this is the hope anyways bc short of this we need a better coach to get the most out of this squad.

Kind of like Cavs when they upgraded to Atkinson

The Celtics had a 129.8 ORTG in the 4 games we played them with Mitch on the floor last season, if you whittle that down to the games where Mitch started against them (0-3), they had a 130.4 ORTG.

The Celtics expose our scheme regardless of who is on the floor, they have been doing it since Mazzulla has been their coach. You have to switch against them, chase them off the 3-point line, not collapse to the rim when they drive, play zone and if you do play man you have to get funky with the matchups. For instance, if we have Mitch and they have Jrue, you defend Jrue with Mitch, if you're going to help off anyone it's him. But, we're not going to do any of those things, we're going to defend them the way we have the last 2 years, our center guards your center, we sink to protect the rim on drives they're not even looking to finish, we drop and you get open threes.

None of this is the coaches fault though, I've been told doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is sane.

[nedleeds]

Last year and the few years before that the Knicks were kind of a fraud good team.

They had to have not too many injuries and then also play at the top of their game, no room for error, nearly every game.

Now, they've raised the talent level enough where they can win on talent even when they don't bring their A game. Against bad and middling teams. It's an actual improvement.

However, they have zero margin for error against good teams. No one out, no one hobbling, 100% execution. Then they can beat playoff teams, but not the top 3 playoff teams.

That's what using all the assets got the Knicks to.
They are good.
They aren't really competitive.
In 5 years they will suck and won't have picks so it'll be the Isiah years all over again, truly.

So, having an ok basketball team for 7 years or so is nice. Sort of.


*The above ignores the fact that 2/5ths of their thin team is incredibly injury prone. So the Knicks will in fact suck badly for significant stretches of the next 5 years.

Actually, who cares.

Even more insane. This is all with a gift of a free all-star starter who walked here because his dad got a broccoli rubber band of money from Leon Rose.

The thing is, the trades themselves weren't the worst. In a vacuum the OG/RJ trade was good -- given the cost of the 2 outgoing players even the horrible extension to OG might have been acceptable.

The KAT trade in a vacuum also, was a good trade. Randle is a total dud, has all of KATs flaws and more. KATs cap killer contract is bad, but the only other option was Randle walks for nothing or CAA is his agency -- they would have maxed him. Randle might have dumped CAA again after the trade ... not sure.

The Bridges trade is the biggest beating in my opinion. The over pay vs. what the Celtics gave up for a better player in Derrick White is what separates championship franchises from the Knicks.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2025&year_max=2025&player_id1=whitede01&player_id2=bridgmi01

You have to show some restraint. There had to be a better deal out there, to get more depth or give up less. There were worse moves than this one, like Paul George, Beal but it was still an awful deal.

Look at the De'Andre Hunter deal. I mean ... we get completely poled up the butt for Bridges.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=huntede01&year_min=2025&player_id1=bridgmi01&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_id=bridgmi01

They got Hunter for an expiring chuckers contract, 2 swaps left over from the Mitchell trade and a couple of seconds. You can claim Bridges is better than Hunter or White but you can't claim the difference is as large as the delta in these deals. They reek of a FO that's just here to cash in knowing they'll get fired in 2 years.

[dakomish23]

Last year and the few years before that the Knicks were kind of a fraud good team.

They had to have not too many injuries and then also play at the top of their game, no room for error, nearly every game.

Now, they've raised the talent level enough where they can win on talent even when they don't bring their A game. Against bad and middling teams. It's an actual improvement.

However, they have zero margin for error against good teams. No one out, no one hobbling, 100% execution. Then they can beat playoff teams, but not the top 3 playoff teams.

That's what using all the assets got the Knicks to.
They are good.
They aren't really competitive.
In 5 years they will suck and won't have picks so it'll be the Isiah years all over again, truly.

So, having an ok basketball team for 7 years or so is nice. Sort of.


*The above ignores the fact that 2/5ths of their thin team is incredibly injury prone. So the Knicks will in fact suck badly for significant stretches of the next 5 years.

Actually, who cares.

Or Thibs pretty rigid system relies on a truly high level rim protector much moreso than other systems. Watching his scheme for 4+ years now this really seems like the biggest issue.

So this is where Mitch becomes a big piece of the puzzle.

And not having OG could be a big reason why one of Tatum/Brown went off too.

To me this is the hope anyways bc short of this we need a better coach to get the most out of this squad.

Kind of like Cavs when they upgraded to Atkinson

The Celtics had a 129.8 ORTG in the 4 games we played them with Mitch on the floor last season, if you whittle that down to the games where Mitch started against them (0-3), they had a 130.4 ORTG.

The Celtics expose our scheme regardless of who is on the floor, they have been doing it since Mazzulla has been their coach. You have to switch against them, chase them off the 3-point line, not collapse to the rim when they drive, play zone and if you do play man you have to get funky with the matchups. For instance, if we have Mitch and they have Jrue, you defend Jrue with Mitch, if you're going to help off anyone it's him. But, we're not going to do any of those things, we're going to defend them the way we have the last 2 years, our center guards your center, we sink to protect the rim on drives they're not even looking to finish, we drop and you get open threes.

None of this is the coaches fault though, I've been told doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is sane.

It is insane that Thibs entire defensive scheme hasn't changed regardless of personnel. Always over help that leaves us in the lurch. Then ppl think the big man is getting cooked. He's supposed to guard someone at the 3PT line then make it back to the rim? I don't get it.

[god shammgod]

The thing you really need to think about is if Mikal wasn’t Jalen’s friend and old teammate would they have even considered paying that much. It seems unlikely.

[Fury]

The thing you really need to think about is if Mikal wasn’t Jalen’s friend and old teammate would they have even considered paying that much. It seems unlikely.

But on the flipside, it helped us sign Jalen at way below market value. With the new CBA, that's huge.

[WaltFrazier]

Amnesia is a helluva drug

Next step is a new GT for Pacers game

What's a GT?

Game thread.

Edit, I said that because part of moving on is focusing on the next game, and there still wasn't/isn't a game thread up. But I realize now I thought the game is tonight when it's tomorrow.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Or Thibs pretty rigid system relies on a truly high level rim protector much moreso than other systems. Watching his scheme for 4+ years now this really seems like the biggest issue.

So this is where Mitch becomes a big piece of the puzzle.

And not having OG could be a big reason why one of Tatum/Brown went off too.

To me this is the hope anyways bc short of this we need a better coach to get the most out of this squad.

Kind of like Cavs when they upgraded to Atkinson

The Celtics had a 129.8 ORTG in the 4 games we played them with Mitch on the floor last season, if you whittle that down to the games where Mitch started against them (0-3), they had a 130.4 ORTG.

The Celtics expose our scheme regardless of who is on the floor, they have been doing it since Mazzulla has been their coach. You have to switch against them, chase them off the 3-point line, not collapse to the rim when they drive, play zone and if you do play man you have to get funky with the matchups. For instance, if we have Mitch and they have Jrue, you defend Jrue with Mitch, if you're going to help off anyone it's him. But, we're not going to do any of those things, we're going to defend them the way we have the last 2 years, our center guards your center, we sink to protect the rim on drives they're not even looking to finish, we drop and you get open threes.

None of this is the coaches fault though, I've been told doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is sane.

It is insane that Thibs entire defensive scheme hasn't changed regardless of personnel. Always over help that leaves us in the lurch. Then ppl think the big man is getting cooked. He's supposed to guard someone at the 3PT line then make it back to the rim? I don't get it.

It's the same scheme regardless of who is on the floor or who we're playing, we never ever play zone, we never cross match with our big on their worst shooter. It's all just the same way of losing.

Celtics - 19/43 threes, 132.2 ORTG
starting lineup Brunson, Grimes, Hart, Randle and Mitch (Can't blame RJ)

Watch on YouTube

Celtics -19/47 threes, 135.6 ORTG
starting lineup Brunson, Donte, RJ , Randle and Mitch

Watch on YouTube

Less than 30 seconds into this video Celtics screen, Mitch drops and KP gets a completely wide open three.

Celtics - 15/35 threes, 140.3 ORTG
Brunson, Donte, Hart, Precious, Ihart

Watch on YouTube

We beat them once in game 80 and had one close game in their very first game of the season. We are 1-6 vs them the last two seasons with them curb stomping us the same way, the losses look the same regardless of who is on the court, we've had rim protectors in 4 of the losses last year and 3 of them were no lube.

Saying this isn't coaching, with multiple different rosters over a 2 year span means you really shouldn't be taken seriously.

[KnixinSix]

Or Thibs pretty rigid system relies on a truly high level rim protector much moreso than other systems. Watching his scheme for 4+ years now this really seems like the biggest issue.

So this is where Mitch becomes a big piece of the puzzle.

And not having OG could be a big reason why one of Tatum/Brown went off too.

To me this is the hope anyways bc short of this we need a better coach to get the most out of this squad.

Kind of like Cavs when they upgraded to Atkinson

The Celtics had a 129.8 ORTG in the 4 games we played them with Mitch on the floor last season, if you whittle that down to the games where Mitch started against them (0-3), they had a 130.4 ORTG.

The Celtics expose our scheme regardless of who is on the floor, they have been doing it since Mazzulla has been their coach. You have to switch against them, chase them off the 3-point line, not collapse to the rim when they drive, play zone and if you do play man you have to get funky with the matchups. For instance, if we have Mitch and they have Jrue, you defend Jrue with Mitch, if you're going to help off anyone it's him. But, we're not going to do any of those things, we're going to defend them the way we have the last 2 years, our center guards your center, we sink to protect the rim on drives they're not even looking to finish, we drop and you get open threes.

None of this is the coaches fault though, I've been told doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is sane.

It is insane that Thibs entire defensive scheme hasn't changed regardless of personnel. Always over help that leaves us in the lurch. Then ppl think the big man is getting cooked. He's supposed to guard someone at the 3PT line then make it back to the rim? I don't get it.

I think some folks are most definitely saying (including myself) it absolutely could be a coaching issue.

[god shammgod]

The thing you really need to think about is if Mikal wasn’t Jalen’s friend and old teammate would they have even considered paying that much. It seems unlikely.

But on the flipside, it helped us sign Jalen at way below market value. With the new CBA, that's huge.

Sure but it’s just robbing Peter to pay Paul. If it leads to a championship it’s fine. If not the bill will come due when the nets are getting all our picks a few years from now.

[sol537]

The Mikal hate is unwarranted IMO. He and OG are being asked to cover for Brunson, Hart, and KAT for 25+ of every single game. That's simply too much to ask of any player and expect them to still look great defensively. When Mitch returns, I'm hoping Hart goes to the bench.

[nedleeds]

The thing you really need to think about is if Mikal wasn’t Jalen’s friend and old teammate would they have even considered paying that much. It seems unlikely.

But on the flipside, it helped us sign Jalen at way below market value. With the new CBA, that's huge.

Sure but it’s just robbing Peter to pay Paul. If it leads to a championship it’s fine. If not the bill will come due when the nets are getting all our picks a few years from now.

But it didn't. Brunson was here for 2 years. Rolling Brunson into the Bridges trade is absurd. Roll in signing Rick Brunson as an assistant at that point.

[nedleeds]

The Mikal hate is unwarranted IMO. He and OG are being asked to cover for Brunson, Hart, and KAT for 25+ of every single game. That's simply too much to ask of any player and expect them to still look great defensively. When Mitch returns, I'm hoping Hart goes to the bench.

I don't hate him at all. Its just we vastly over paid.