Official Trade Thread Part XLVII

[payitforward]

Well, "sulking" is probably too strong a word, but every player wants to play. OTOH, the size of the paycheck may do something to counteract dissatisfaction!

[dckingsfan]

Headline: Wizards trade for veteran player X, will be a great mentor for young players Y & Z.

Headline repeats itself over and over again...

Put simply, who do you think is a more competitive, accomplished and win-focused player:

Marcus Smart.
Khris Middleton.
Or Kyle " “I mean just not trying to fit into what we’re trying to do here. Just being more assertive, demanding the ball, not just going out there and trying to let people develop" Kuzma.

Shoot, we've been relying on Jordan Poole as our team captain. I'm happy we add at least one vet who knows how to defend.

Rooks take time to develop. Ask all-stars if they had vets who helped them learn what it takes and uniformly the best players had respected mentors early on. Even the sainted Deni Avdija had Westbrook to encourage him. Poole would never have earned that huge contract if not for the example and work ethic of Curry. Aside from Russ, what veterans have we ever brought in that were actually good? Because we are notorious for never developing our talent, but who have we had as mentors from winning teams? Seems to me fair to take the example of a team like Houston, who gathered a ton of talent by losing but did not start winning until they brought in players like Van Vleet and Dillon Brooks to exemplify toughness.

What's the last vet we had before Russ that was any good as a leader for the squad? Paul Pierce I think. Maybe Caron Butler or Gortat before that.

To answer the question, "none of the above" was a choice And that definitely includes Jordon "chuck" Poole.

And Deni, is "none of the above" as he is still a youngster? He plays hard and the right way but wouldn't be considered "veteran leadership", IMO.

Hence the tongue and cheek - although "rinse, repeat" seems to fit pretty well for the Wiz as you indirectly point out.

I think the last question is the best one. We have had quite the dearth of veteran leadership. Why is that? How will this FO overcome that issue? I mean, why the h*ll did they sign Kuz in the first place. And second, why did you trade for Poole if you knew you were going to rebuild.

[9 and 20]

Nene and Paul Pierce were good in that role. Andray Baltche tried his best, and it was great to watch.

[gambitx777]

Nene and Paul Pierce were good in that role. Andray Baltche tried his best, and it was great to watch.

Didn't we draft blatche lol.

Man I think if PP had stayed another year we might have been cooking for sure. He didn't have a lot left but he was really good for us that year.

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[nate33]

Headline: Wizards trade for veteran player X, will be a great mentor for young players Y & Z.

Headline repeats itself over and over again...

Put simply, who do you think is a more competitive, accomplished and win-focused player:

Marcus Smart.
Khris Middleton.
Or Kyle " “I mean just not trying to fit into what we’re trying to do here. Just being more assertive, demanding the ball, not just going out there and trying to let people develop" Kuzma.

Shoot, we've been relying on Jordan Poole as our team captain. I'm happy we add at least one vet who knows how to defend.

Rooks take time to develop. Ask all-stars if they had vets who helped them learn what it takes and uniformly the best players had respected mentors early on. Even the sainted Deni Avdija had Westbrook to encourage him. Poole would never have earned that huge contract if not for the example and work ethic of Curry. Aside from Russ, what veterans have we ever brought in that were actually good? Because we are notorious for never developing our talent, but who have we had as mentors from winning teams? Seems to me fair to take the example of a team like Houston, who gathered a ton of talent by losing but did not start winning until they brought in players like Van Vleet and Dillon Brooks to exemplify toughness.

What's the last vet we had before Russ that was any good as a leader for the squad? Paul Pierce I think. Maybe Caron Butler or Gortat before that.

To answer the question, "none of the above" was a choice And that definitely includes Jordon "chuck" Poole.

And Deni, is "none of the above" as he is still a youngster? He plays hard and the right way but wouldn't be considered "veteran leadership", IMO.

Hence the tongue and cheek - although "rinse, repeat" seems to fit pretty well for the Wiz as you indirectly point out.

I think the last question is the best one. We have had quite the dearth of veteran leadership. Why is that? How will this FO overcome that issue? I mean, why the h*ll did they sign Kuz in the first place. And second, why did you trade for Poole if you knew you were going to rebuild.

Our best veteran mentor appears to be Anthony Gill.

[payitforward]

...Man I think if PP had stayed another year we might have been cooking for sure. He didn't have a lot left but he was really good for us that year.

He was, it's true. But he never played at all well again.

In any case, he wasn't the reason we had a good year. We started 19-6, as Rasual Butler did an imitation of a HOF player.

Once he cooled down, which was no surprise, we went 27-30 in the remaining games.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Headline: Wizards trade for veteran player X, will be a great mentor for young players Y & Z.

Headline repeats itself over and over again...

Put simply, who do you think is a more competitive, accomplished and win-focused player:

Marcus Smart.
Khris Middleton.
Or Kyle " “I mean just not trying to fit into what we’re trying to do here. Just being more assertive, demanding the ball, not just going out there and trying to let people develop" Kuzma.

Shoot, we've been relying on Jordan Poole as our team captain. I'm happy we add at least one vet who knows how to defend.

Rooks take time to develop. Ask all-stars if they had vets who helped them learn what it takes and uniformly the best players had respected mentors early on. Even the sainted Deni Avdija had Westbrook to encourage him. Poole would never have earned that huge contract if not for the example and work ethic of Curry. Aside from Russ, what veterans have we ever brought in that were actually good? Because we are notorious for never developing our talent, but who have we had as mentors from winning teams? Seems to me fair to take the example of a team like Houston, who gathered a ton of talent by losing but did not start winning until they brought in players like Van Vleet and Dillon Brooks to exemplify toughness.

What's the last vet we had before Russ that was any good as a leader for the squad? Paul Pierce I think. Maybe Caron Butler or Gortat before that.

Gortat clashed with Wall, but he was right. Gortat clashed with Wittman. There's no winning clashing with the coach. I still thought with his screens, rebounds, and toughness that Marcin was a good leader.

Trevor Ariza wasn't a big name, but he had a huge positive impact.

Russell Westbrook was the real deal. He's an alpha even on the downside of his career.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

...Man I think if PP had stayed another year we might have been cooking for sure. He didn't have a lot left but he was really good for us that year.

He was, it's true. But he never played at all well again.

In any case, he wasn't the reason we had a good year. We started 19-6, as Rasual Butler did an imitation of a HOF player.

Once he cooled down, which was no surprise, we went 27-30 in the remaining games.

R.I.P. Rasual Butler

[AFM]

I forgot he passed away. RIP!!!!

[gambitx777]

I think having PP for 2 more years would have added a level of maturity this team really needed.

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[doclinkin]

Our best veteran mentor appears to be Anthony Gill.

Right. And Taj Gibson before him. Good guys, but not award winning archetypical players.

I don't really know or expect Middleton to teach players all that much. Unlike Brogdon and Smart. I have never heard anything about him as a person except that it seems like he's a good character guy whose teammates like him. But both Malcolm and Marcus take an active role in coaching up guys, on the sideline and in game.

To his credit Kuzma did seem to take that role. But whatever wisdom he may have passed on to them, his on court play did not exemplify anything I would want them to learn. Other than self-belief. Whereas I'd be damned happy if a player like Kyshawn learned from the toughness and cojones of a guy like Smart. Key already is willing to piss off the right people, doesn't back down. He just needs strength and pointers. Bub too. DPOY is a role model to follow, like 6MOY in Brogdon before him.

As for Middleton. I don't care if he says one word. His game is exactly the skillset I wish Bub would learn. Savvy crafty mid range scoring they already have in common. To that Middleton adds interior scoring and a move/countermove game that sets himself up to get open shots. Interior finishing. All that. Things that it seems Bub is primed to learn. He's got the handle, reads the floor well, doesn't need to be explosive to get free, just needs to pick up the dirty tricks.

[payitforward]

May it be as you describe & wish!

[closg00]

Our best veteran mentor appears to be Anthony Gill.

Right. And Taj Gibson before him. Good guys, but not award winning archetypical players.

I don't really know or expect Middleton to teach players all that much. Unlike Brogdon and Smart. I have never heard anything about him as a person except that it seems like he's a good character guy whose teammates like him. But both Malcolm and Marcus take an active role in coaching up guys, on the sideline and in game.

To his credit Kuzma did seem to take that role. But whatever wisdom he may have passed on to them, his on court play did not exemplify anything I would want them to learn. Other than self-belief. Whereas I'd be damned happy if a player like Kyshawn learned from the toughness and cojones of a guy like Smart. He already is willing to piss off the right people, doesn't back down. He just needs strength and pointers. Bub too. DPOY is a role model to follow, like 6MOY in Brogdon before him.

As for Middleton. I don't care if he says one word. His game is exactly the skillset I wish Bub would learn. Savvy crafty mid range scoring they already have in common. To that Middleton adds interior scoring and a move/countermove game that sets himself up to get open shots. Interior finishing. All that. Things that it seems Bub is primed to learn. He's got the handle, reads the floor well, doesn't need to be explosive to get free, just needs to pick up the dirty tricks.

I appreciate that Anthony Gill is a good guy, but what evidence is there that he is a better/best mentor more-so than anyone else on the team?

[payitforward]

If you look closely, & the light is right, you can just make out the halo floating above his head.

[nate33]

Our best veteran mentor appears to be Anthony Gill.

Right. And Taj Gibson before him. Good guys, but not award winning archetypical players.

I don't really know or expect Middleton to teach players all that much. Unlike Brogdon and Smart. I have never heard anything about him as a person except that it seems like he's a good character guy whose teammates like him. But both Malcolm and Marcus take an active role in coaching up guys, on the sideline and in game.

To his credit Kuzma did seem to take that role. But whatever wisdom he may have passed on to them, his on court play did not exemplify anything I would want them to learn. Other than self-belief. Whereas I'd be damned happy if a player like Kyshawn learned from the toughness and cojones of a guy like Smart. He already is willing to piss off the right people, doesn't back down. He just needs strength and pointers. Bub too. DPOY is a role model to follow, like 6MOY in Brogdon before him.

As for Middleton. I don't care if he says one word. His game is exactly the skillset I wish Bub would learn. Savvy crafty mid range scoring they already have in common. To that Middleton adds interior scoring and a move/countermove game that sets himself up to get open shots. Interior finishing. All that. Things that it seems Bub is primed to learn. He's got the handle, reads the floor well, doesn't need to be explosive to get free, just needs to pick up the dirty tricks.

I appreciate that Anthony Gill is a good guy, but what evidence is there that he is a better/best mentor more-so than anyone else on the team?

I can't remember who now, but several players have raved about him. And the fact that he was retained at all instead of various young prospects suggests the team values him for his leadership. They clearly aren't valuing him for how he fits into the future roster.

[9 and 20]

I don't get the Gill love either. I remember the Wiz paid Taj Gibson a few million dollars to sit on the bench for basically 5 minutes. I think that was the Sheppard and not Dawkins?

Holmes has been good too - hopefully some of his aggressiveness rubs off on Sarr. If Holmes comes back on a minimum deal, we should keep him.

[nate33]

I don't get the Gill love either. I remember the Wiz paid Taj Gibson a few million dollars to sit on the bench for basically 5 minutes. I think that was the Sheppard and not Dawkins?

Holmes has been good too - hopefully some of his aggressiveness rubs off on Sarr. If Holmes comes back on a minimum deal, we should keep him.

Agreed. I like Holmes. He probably wouldn't play here for the minimum. We would need to outbid a lot of teams with better contention prospects. But if we paid him a bit more than the vet minimum, I think he'd stay.

I don't really understand the purpose of the extension we signed him to. We extended him for on year at $13.2M, but only $500K of it is guaranteed. What's the point of extending a guy with non-guaranteed money? We could have just done nothing and utilized Bird Rights to pay him that same money if we so desired. (And frankly, there's no chance he'll cost anywhere near $13M.)

[dckingsfan]

I don't get the Gill love either. I remember the Wiz paid Taj Gibson a few million dollars to sit on the bench for basically 5 minutes. I think that was the Sheppard and not Dawkins?

Holmes has been good too - hopefully some of his aggressiveness rubs off on Sarr. If Holmes comes back on a minimum deal, we should keep him.

Agreed. I like Holmes. He probably wouldn't play here for the minimum. We would need to outbid a lot of teams with better contention prospects. But if we paid him a bit more than the vet minimum, I think he'd stay.

I don't really understand the purpose of the extension we signed him to. We extended him for on year at $13.2M, but only $500K of it is guaranteed. What's the point of extending a guy with non-guaranteed money? We could have just done nothing and utilized Bird Rights to pay him that same money if we so desired. (And frankly, there's no chance he'll cost anywhere near $13M.)

Yeah. We should have just let him expire... but that is a pretty tiny mistake in the scheme of things.

[doclinkin]

I appreciate that Anthony Gill is a good guy, but what evidence is there that he is a better/best mentor more-so than anyone else on the team?

I can't remember who now, but several players have raved about him. And the fact that he was retained at all instead of various young prospects suggests the team values him for his leadership. They clearly aren't valuing him for how he fits into the future roster.

Deni. Kispert. Hachimura. This year's rookies. All credit him for challenging them to get in the best shape they can and stay ready. Apparently Gill is a conditioning madman, constantly pushing to improve his stamina. He gets players to join him. Doesn't hurt to sign him to an end of bench deal as he always puts up good numbers in garbage time call-ups. But still, he's not teaching you to win a championship since he's never been there in the NBA.

[spaceman_E]

I don't get the Gill love either. I remember the Wiz paid Taj Gibson a few million dollars to sit on the bench for basically 5 minutes. I think that was the Sheppard and not Dawkins?

Holmes has been good too - hopefully some of his aggressiveness rubs off on Sarr. If Holmes comes back on a minimum deal, we should keep him.

I don't really understand the purpose of the extension we signed him to. We extended him for on year at $13.2M, but only $500K of it is guaranteed. What's the point of extending a guy with non-guaranteed money? We could have just done nothing and utilized Bird Rights to pay him that same money if we so desired. (And frankly, there's no chance he'll cost anywhere near $13M.)

wasn't the adjustment so that his contract would fit into the MLE this season for potential trade purposes? And they gave him a few extra $$ for his trouble.