Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[TimberKat]

Little rumor out there that Mavs reached out to the Wolves about Luka. Would you of traded ant for luka? I think ultimately no but if they pulled the trigger i wouldn't be mad about it

We are one of maybe 4 or 5 teams that lack the assets to field a competitive bid. Ant is younger, healthier, and higher upside than Luka. Gobert is ineligible, and our pick depth is depleted. Jaden, Naz, and DDV is not enough for Luka at 26. We just were never a viable option.

I am not sure Ant has more upside. I think Luka is a better player and if we could talk to Luka ahead of the trade sure but no way to do that blinded. However, Dallas wanted defense so they were asking for Gobert anyway

[shrink]

Little rumor out there that Mavs reached out to the Wolves about Luka. Would you have traded ant for luka? I think ultimately no but if they pulled the trigger i wouldn't be mad about it

I’ve given this some thought.

There are four players that are automatic “no’s”. Jokic, SGA, Giannis (probably) and Wemby.

But there is another small set of guys that are worse than Doncic, but the teams may still say no, and I think it includes Ant.

It isn’t just that Ant has tremendous upside, or that he is the beloved face of this franchise, and maybe someday, the NBA. The big issue is that Ant wants to be in Minnesota. He signed his five year max extension without the typical player option on the final season. If he had asked, of course he would have gotten it. But it indicates he wants to be in Minnesota.

The risk with Doncic is that he wouldn’t re-sign here. He has no ties to this place. Then MIN has to run the dangerous gauntlet of whether to trade him again, or whether to hold onto their new franchise player and hope they can convince him to stay.

Btw, here’s some info on the Doncic trade you may not have heard. DAL initially asked for both LAL 1sts, and the Lakers said “Fine, but we want to talk to Luka first to make sure he will re-sign here.” DAL didn’t want to risk it getting out to Luka that they were looking to trade him, they said no, and LAL said if they were taking on this giant risk, they wanted to pay less, so DAL agreed not to ask for that second 1st!

[Slim Tubby]

Little rumor out there that Mavs reached out to the Wolves about Luka. Would you have traded ant for luka? I think ultimately no but if they pulled the trigger i wouldn't be mad about it

I’ve given this some thought.

There are four players that are automatic “no’s”. Jokic, SGA, Giannis (probably) and Wemby.

But there is another small set of guys that are worse than Doncic, but the teams may still say no, and I think it includes Ant.

It isn’t just that Ant has tremendous upside, or that he is the beloved face of this franchise, and maybe someday, the NBA. The big issue is that Ant wants to be in Minnesota. He signed his five year max extension without the typical player option on the final season. If he had asked, of course he would have gotten it. But it indicates he wants to be in Minnesota.

The risk with Doncic is that he wouldn’t re-sign here. He has no ties to this place. Then MIN has to run the dangerous gauntlet of whether to trade him again, or whether to hold onto their new franchise player and hope they can convince him to stay.

Btw, here’s some info on the Doncic trade you may not have heard. DAL initially asked for both LAL 1sts, and the Lakers said “Fine, but we want to talk to Luka first to make sure he will re-sign here.” DAL didn’t want to risk it getting out to Luka that they were looking to trade him, they said no, and LAL said if they were taking on this giant risk, they wanted to pay less, so DAL agreed not to ask for that second 1st!

If you take Nico with you to the car dealership, you drive out of there after paying $1,000.00 over sticker price.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[Norseman79]

First off, this Ant trade talk is stupid unless he wants out. Luka might be ahead slightly on offense, but defensively it isn't close. Factor in age and health, come on people. The biggest thing holding Ant back right now from being even better is a lack of good point guard play and the offense Finch runs.

[shrink]

Little rumor out there that Mavs reached out to the Wolves about Luka. Would you have traded ant for luka? I think ultimately no but if they pulled the trigger i wouldn't be mad about it

You’re right, and it looks like it was more than a rumor!

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-mavs-engaged-timberwolves-luka-151821511.html

[shangrila]

Little rumor out there that Mavs reached out to the Wolves about Luka. Would you of traded ant for luka? I think ultimately no but if they pulled the trigger i wouldn't be mad about it

Yeah, that's a tougher call than I would have thought.

Luka is clearly the better player and likely always will be. And an interesting thought is how close or far we'd be from contention if you just straight swapped Luka and Ant. A lineup of NAW-Luka-McDaniels-Randle/Naz-Gobert would have a lot going for it on both ends, especially if Luka could put in a bit more effort on the defensive side. And I'm sure Luka is one of those guys that you get annoyed watching when he's not on your team but love everything he brings when he is.

But I legitimately love watching Ant play, I like listening to him talk off the court and (off court issues withstanding) he's a guy I can support as the next KG for us. I'm not sure, at this point, that I'd feel the same with Luka. Again, maybe it changes, but watching KAT whine to the refs every game and not get back on defence pissed me off to no end, and Luka is significantly worse.

[guest81]

First off, this Ant trade talk is stupid unless he wants out. Luka might be ahead slightly on offense, but defensively it isn't close. Factor in age and health, come on people. The biggest thing holding Ant back right now from being even better is a lack of good point guard play and the offense Finch runs.

There's no serious discussion on trading. It's just a what if question posed on a message board for engagement. Relax

[Klomp]

There's no serious discussion on trading. It's just a what if question posed on a message board for engagement. Relax

To be fair, Mavs fans would've thought the same two weeks ago...

[Klomp]

I think the only "competition" with us for Durant that makes sense for all sides would be Houston

[shrink]

And HOU has a lot more trade assets than we do.

I remember watching a video over the summer with Durant working out with Naz.

Maybe KD only has one destination - us.

[cmoss84]

I'd like to see three trades in the off-season:
(not exact details but you will get the idea)

1) KD for Rudy and DD
2) Julius for Ball and Smith
3) Det + Utah picks for whoever falls to 10-12

For me, the gamble of giving up Rudy and DD for Durant is worth it. TSJ takes over for DD. There are legit centers in free agency who may not break the bank, and drafting 10-12 sets up a possibility of a center (Wolf or otherwise). Let's just say we end up with Wolf and Paul Reed. I am still not buying Chicago's interest in Ball, and feel that 2/20 contract they gave him is a pre-cursor to this trade. We have to choose between Naz + FA C or NAW. NAW signs with Toronto.

PG: Ball (20) RD (15) Mike (10) Wolf (3)
SG: Ant (30) TSJ (15) Ball (3)
SF: Jaden (27) Naz (10) KD (8) Smith (3)
PF: KD (25) Smith (13) Jaden (5) Naz (5)
C: Naz (18) Reed (15) Wolf (12) Smith (3)

[Klomp]

And HOU has a lot more trade assets than we do.

I remember watching a video over the summer with Durant working out with Naz.

Maybe KD only has one destination - us.

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

I'd like to see three trades in the off-season:
(not exact details but you will get the idea)

1) KD for Rudy and DD
2) Julius for Ball and Smith
3) Det + Utah picks for whoever falls to 10-12

For me, the gamble of giving up Rudy and DD for Durant is worth it. TSJ takes over for DD. There are legit centers in free agency who may not break the bank, and drafting 10-12 sets up a possibility of a center (Wolf or otherwise). Let's just say we end up with Wolf and Paul Reed. I am still not buying Chicago's interest in Ball, and feel that 2/20 contract they gave him is a pre-cursor to this trade. We have to choose between Naz + FA C or NAW. NAW signs with Toronto.

PG: Ball (20) RD (15) Mike (10) Wolf (3)
SG: Ant (30) TSJ (15) Ball (3)
SF: Jaden (27) Naz (10) KD (8) Smith (3)
PF: KD (25) Smith (13) Jaden (5) Naz (5)
C: Naz (18) Reed (15) Wolf (12) Smith (3)

Good luck getting KD for Rudy and DDV. They will demand both picks and more, maybe Dilly or at least Shannon. The Suns don’t NEED to move him. They probably will, but that isn’t the same as us having unlimited leverage to make them swallow any deal we choose.

If we were going to trade Randle for Ball and Smith it would have happened already. Also the complicated breakdowns of minutes here and minutes there don’t tend to be as clean or functional as you hope. Smith will be given a role and asked to develop chemistry with guys in that role. You have him playing 6 minutes outside of the PF just to play him, and then you have his primary role as backup PF. I thought people here wanted him because he was better at backup C.

Going small ball in today’s NBA after we helped prove big ball is better is quite fitting for a franchise with our level and history of dysfunction. We ask a guy who is a 3/4 to replace Rudy as the primary defender against all the league’s bigs and his fellow starting and closing big is KD. What could possibly go wrongs

[cmoss84]

I'd like to see three trades in the off-season:
(not exact details but you will get the idea)

1) KD for Rudy and DD
2) Julius for Ball and Smith
3) Det + Utah picks for whoever falls to 10-12

For me, the gamble of giving up Rudy and DD for Durant is worth it. TSJ takes over for DD. There are legit centers in free agency who may not break the bank, and drafting 10-12 sets up a possibility of a center (Wolf or otherwise). Let's just say we end up with Wolf and Paul Reed. I am still not buying Chicago's interest in Ball, and feel that 2/20 contract they gave him is a pre-cursor to this trade. We have to choose between Naz + FA C or NAW. NAW signs with Toronto.

PG: Ball (20) RD (15) Mike (10) Wolf (3)
SG: Ant (30) TSJ (15) Ball (3)
SF: Jaden (27) Naz (10) KD (8) Smith (3)
PF: KD (25) Smith (13) Jaden (5) Naz (5)
C: Naz (18) Reed (15) Wolf (12) Smith (3)

Good luck getting KD for Rudy and DDV. They will demand both picks and more, maybe Dilly or at least Shannon. The Suns don’t NEED to move him. They probably will, but that isn’t the same as us having unlimited leverage to make them swallow any deal we choose.

If we were going to trade Randle for Ball and Smith it would have happened already. Also the complicated breakdowns of minutes here and minutes there don’t tend to be as clean or functional as you hope. Smith will be given a role and asked to develop chemistry with guys in that role. You have him playing 6 minutes outside of the PF just to play him, and then you have his primary role as backup PF. I thought people here wanted him because he was better at backup C.

Going small ball in today’s NBA after we helped prove big ball is better is quite fitting for a franchise with our level and history of dysfunction. We ask a guy who is a 3/4 to replace Rudy as the primary defender against all the league’s bigs and his fellow starting and closing big is KD. What could possibly go wrongs

We're holding our own against best team in league playing smaller, no? After these trades, I see depth and versatility vs small ball. Nobody has to play big minutes. Lots of insurance.
Will KD get traded for more? Probably...but you never know

[winforlose]

I'd like to see three trades in the off-season:
(not exact details but you will get the idea)

1) KD for Rudy and DD
2) Julius for Ball and Smith
3) Det + Utah picks for whoever falls to 10-12

For me, the gamble of giving up Rudy and DD for Durant is worth it. TSJ takes over for DD. There are legit centers in free agency who may not break the bank, and drafting 10-12 sets up a possibility of a center (Wolf or otherwise). Let's just say we end up with Wolf and Paul Reed. I am still not buying Chicago's interest in Ball, and feel that 2/20 contract they gave him is a pre-cursor to this trade. We have to choose between Naz + FA C or NAW. NAW signs with Toronto.

PG: Ball (20) RD (15) Mike (10) Wolf (3)
SG: Ant (30) TSJ (15) Ball (3)
SF: Jaden (27) Naz (10) KD (8) Smith (3)
PF: KD (25) Smith (13) Jaden (5) Naz (5)
C: Naz (18) Reed (15) Wolf (12) Smith (3)

Good luck getting KD for Rudy and DDV. They will demand both picks and more, maybe Dilly or at least Shannon. The Suns don’t NEED to move him. They probably will, but that isn’t the same as us having unlimited leverage to make them swallow any deal we choose.

If we were going to trade Randle for Ball and Smith it would have happened already. Also the complicated breakdowns of minutes here and minutes there don’t tend to be as clean or functional as you hope. Smith will be given a role and asked to develop chemistry with guys in that role. You have him playing 6 minutes outside of the PF just to play him, and then you have his primary role as backup PF. I thought people here wanted him because he was better at backup C.

Going small ball in today’s NBA after we helped prove big ball is better is quite fitting for a franchise with our level and history of dysfunction. We ask a guy who is a 3/4 to replace Rudy as the primary defender against all the league’s bigs and his fellow starting and closing big is KD. What could possibly go wrongs

We're holding our own against best team in league playing smaller, no? After these trades, I see depth and versatility vs small ball. Nobody has to play big minutes. Lots of insurance.
Will KD get traded for more? Probably...but you never know

Let’s finish the game and then talk about the merits of small ball against Chet and IH.

[winforlose]

I'd like to see three trades in the off-season:
(not exact details but you will get the idea)

1) KD for Rudy and DD
2) Julius for Ball and Smith
3) Det + Utah picks for whoever falls to 10-12

For me, the gamble of giving up Rudy and DD for Durant is worth it. TSJ takes over for DD. There are legit centers in free agency who may not break the bank, and drafting 10-12 sets up a possibility of a center (Wolf or otherwise). Let's just say we end up with Wolf and Paul Reed. I am still not buying Chicago's interest in Ball, and feel that 2/20 contract they gave him is a pre-cursor to this trade. We have to choose between Naz + FA C or NAW. NAW signs with Toronto.

PG: Ball (20) RD (15) Mike (10) Wolf (3)
SG: Ant (30) TSJ (15) Ball (3)
SF: Jaden (27) Naz (10) KD (8) Smith (3)
PF: KD (25) Smith (13) Jaden (5) Naz (5)
C: Naz (18) Reed (15) Wolf (12) Smith (3)

Good luck getting KD for Rudy and DDV. They will demand both picks and more, maybe Dilly or at least Shannon. The Suns don’t NEED to move him. They probably will, but that isn’t the same as us having unlimited leverage to make them swallow any deal we choose.

If we were going to trade Randle for Ball and Smith it would have happened already. Also the complicated breakdowns of minutes here and minutes there don’t tend to be as clean or functional as you hope. Smith will be given a role and asked to develop chemistry with guys in that role. You have him playing 6 minutes outside of the PF just to play him, and then you have his primary role as backup PF. I thought people here wanted him because he was better at backup C.

Going small ball in today’s NBA after we helped prove big ball is better is quite fitting for a franchise with our level and history of dysfunction. We ask a guy who is a 3/4 to replace Rudy as the primary defender against all the league’s bigs and his fellow starting and closing big is KD. What could possibly go wrongs

We're holding our own against best team in league playing smaller, no? After these trades, I see depth and versatility vs small ball. Nobody has to play big minutes. Lots of insurance.
Will KD get traded for more? Probably...but you never know

Okay, now we have some numbers. We lost on the glass by 5, we lost the free throw attempt battle 24-22. We won the turnover battle, 3 point battle, and had a lot go right to win this one, (missed shots, refs allowed a ton of physicality, Dilly played well. TSJ played very well, Clark… defended well, NAW hit 4 of 9 from deep, ect…) Point being when you play undersized you need a lot to go right and have much less margin for error.

[Klomp]

Something to think about....Durant is one of the few players in the league who could probably make Ant think twice about going into hero mode in clutch situations.

[Neeva]

Ant needs to become clutch period!

I think it’s time to trade Randall and Rudy.
Naz and Jaden are ready for the next step.
Rudy for Barnes, filler and one of Spurs 2025 first round picks?

Randall to Clippers for Powell and Jones Jr.

DDV/Dillingham/Conley
Ant/Clark
TreJohnson/Powell/TJ/
McDaniels/Jones Jr./Barnes/Bryant
Naz/Muluach/Garza

Plus Pistons and Spurs pick (hopefully 14 and 8) and pick 32. Tre Johnson, Khaman Muluach, and Carter Bryant.

[winforlose]

Ant needs to become clutch period!

I think it’s time to trade Randall and Rudy.
Naz and Jaden are ready for the next step.
Rudy for Barnes, filler and one of Spurs 2025 first round picks?

Randall to Clippers for Powell and Jones Jr.

DDV/Dillingham/Conley
Ant/Clark
TreJohnson/Powell/TJ/
McDaniels/Jones Jr./Barnes/Bryant
Naz/Muluach/Garza

Plus Pistons and Spurs pick (hopefully 14 and 8) and pick 32. Tre Johnson, Khaman Muluach, and Carter Bryant.

I agree with some of this, but I cannot bring myself to and 1 it. Naz is not a C. Putting him at C is wasting him the same way putting Jaden at PF is wasting him. Playing big ball is the way to win. We need a Myles Turner like C who can pace and space while also rim protecting. I am also cool with Unicorn lineups a few minutes a game (but only when appropriate,) with Jaden at the 2, Naz at the 3, and our starting and backup Cs assuming pace and space at both positions. Ant and Rudy is the wrong fit. That said, I don’t love small ball, and I especially don’t love it if we don’t box out consistently (which we do not.)

[shrink]

I agree with some of this, but I cannot bring myself to and 1 it. Naz is not a C. Putting him at C is wasting him the same way putting Jaden at PF is wasting him. Playing big ball is the way to win. We need a Myles Turner like C who can pace and space while also rim protecting. I am also cool with Unicorn lineups a few minutes a game (but only when appropriate,) with Jaden at the 2, Naz at the 3, and our starting and backup Cs assuming pace and space at both positions. Ant and Rudy is the wrong fit. That said, I don’t love small ball, and I especially don’t love it if we don’t box out consistently (which we do not.)

I agree with most of this too, except that Ant and Rudy are the wrong fit.

What? Rudy clogs the paint to keep Ant from driving, right? Nah. Ant simply isn’t using Rudy to his advantage.

National sources say Rudy sets the best picks in the NBA. Not only is he a very large human being, but his positioning and footwork to get to spot are prefect. He knows exactly how close he can get to setting a moving screen without it being illegal. With Ant’s explosive first step, the two can shed any defender, and that is magnified because of Ant’s newfound ability to shoot the three.

The problem though is that Ant STILL hasn’t learned to throw the lob. When Rudy comes off his screen and rolls to the basket, he is open almost every time. Part of this is because if Ant won’t throw the lob, defenders rush to stop him, and ignore Rudy. Gobert has his hands up, he’s looking for the ball. He just never gets it from Ant. If Ant will just sit down with Mike Conley, and be half as good as he is (which should be easy with so much better physical gifts), then that could be a terrific offensive combination.

The other important thing about Gobert is, of course, his defense. His whole career, he has been a walking top ten defense, regardless of how bad his teammates are. But in MIN, he has even better teammates, but it all comes down to Gobert. Naz has always been a poor defender, but put him on the floor with Rudy behind him, and his numbers soar. Players like Jaylin Clark or Ant can get into opponents and go for steals, knowing that if they miss and get beat, there is a good chance Rudy will erase them at the rim. I think trading Gobert now would hurt the chemistry the team has built with him, and while Miles Turner has been a good defender in the past, the team would take a dramatic hit defensively (and our identity) if the Wolves turned Gobert into Turner.