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Ownership Talk

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thinktank
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#21 » by thinktank » Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:06 pm

winforlose wrote:
thinktank wrote:Oh geez.

Taylor and Lore are worth the same amount of money (Lore may be worth more).

I have no reason to believe Taylor is any more liquid than Lore.

Plus this group has more money than God (Bloomberg, Schmidt, Lore). 105 billion + 25 billion + 3 or 4 billion.

That money blows Taylor out of the water.

And, Lo-Rod calls the shots.

I think this is a great setup.


I don’t want you to misunderstand what I am trying to say. This is not an attack. I am trying to help you understand the business principles that you are misstating.

Principle 1: If you know you are going to operate at a loss, net worth is not the key figure. It doesn’t matter if you are worth 1 billion or 2, what matters is how much it costs to pay the difference between money in and money out. If you have a line of credit at a low interest rate vs a high interest rate. If you have the reserves to pay the interest without having to sell a different investment and not miss out on that opportunity. Also having multiple investments is important for diversifying which is a strategy to reduce risk in investing.

Principle 2: Minority partners do not give majority partners money for nothing. Bloomberg might loan the money to ownership at a lower rate than the banks, but that comes with strings like some level of control over spending levels or operating costs. Or it could just straight up cost equity. The more of the pie ALORE gives away the less profit they can return on the investment. So yes having deep pockets in the minority ownership has some value, but it is not the same as having it in the majority ownership group.


I, in turn, am trying to help you.

First, you were just wrong for a whole year, so don’t be surprised if myself and others aren’t going to put stock in what you say now.

Second, based on what I just read, you yourself do not have a sufficient understanding of this.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#22 » by winforlose » Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:37 pm

thinktank wrote:
winforlose wrote:
thinktank wrote:Oh geez.

Taylor and Lore are worth the same amount of money (Lore may be worth more).

I have no reason to believe Taylor is any more liquid than Lore.

Plus this group has more money than God (Bloomberg, Schmidt, Lore). 105 billion + 25 billion + 3 or 4 billion.

That money blows Taylor out of the water.

And, Lo-Rod calls the shots.

I think this is a great setup.


I don’t want you to misunderstand what I am trying to say. This is not an attack. I am trying to help you understand the business principles that you are misstating.

Principle 1: If you know you are going to operate at a loss, net worth is not the key figure. It doesn’t matter if you are worth 1 billion or 2, what matters is how much it costs to pay the difference between money in and money out. If you have a line of credit at a low interest rate vs a high interest rate. If you have the reserves to pay the interest without having to sell a different investment and not miss out on that opportunity. Also having multiple investments is important for diversifying which is a strategy to reduce risk in investing.

Principle 2: Minority partners do not give majority partners money for nothing. Bloomberg might loan the money to ownership at a lower rate than the banks, but that comes with strings like some level of control over spending levels or operating costs. Or it could just straight up cost equity. The more of the pie ALORE gives away the less profit they can return on the investment. So yes having deep pockets in the minority ownership has some value, but it is not the same as having it in the majority ownership group.


I, in turn, am trying to help you.

First, you were just wrong for a whole year, so don’t be surprised if myself and others aren’t going to put stock in what you say now.

Second, based on what I just read, you yourself do not have a sufficient understanding of this.


Wrong for a full year? Taylor and Lore had a contract dispute about a contract I never read. I couldn’t be right or wrong because without reading it I had no way of knowing who wins. I was also not privy to any of their communications or really 99% of the fact universe of the case. Hell, I don’t even who the arbitrators were. Let’s not pretend I was news anchor covering this in depth.

I am not claiming to have a business degree, much less a full picture of Lore’s finances. I do know that he is heavily invested in a company called Wonder. I am giving basic concepts dumbed down to try and help people understand the issues at hand. You seem to be suggesting that minority partners will supply financing without expecting a return. Is that your claim?
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#23 » by thinktank » Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:51 pm

No, sir. I think I’m done talking to you.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#24 » by shangrila » Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:55 pm

This thread, and all the other discussions surrounding this topic, are peak internet. I love it.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#25 » by BlacJacMac » Tue Feb 11, 2025 9:47 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#26 » by winforlose » Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:09 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
Read on Twitter


2031 is an interesting target year. Even assuming 2 or 3 years of construction, that is still quite a while. Although the upside is it shows a commitment to keep the team here.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#27 » by BlacJacMac » Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:38 pm

It does seem a ways off. Generally you can assume 12-18 months of planning. 2.5-3 years of construction once ground is broken.

This seems to be following the 76ers model, who announced a new arena in July of 2022 - to be completed by 2031.

https://www.nba.com/news/sixers-announce-plans-to-build-new-1-3-billion-arena-by-2031
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#28 » by TheProdigy » Wed Feb 12, 2025 1:04 am

BlacJacMac wrote:
Read on Twitter

Privately financed. Amazing. We should all be thrilled to have Glen Taylor, the worst owner in the league, out of the picture.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#29 » by shrink » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:55 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#30 » by Slim Tubby » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:04 am

shrink wrote:
Read on Twitter
If the bargain price were to jeopardize the potential team value of future Ownership sales, it could be a problem.

It won't...and I think the NBA has had quite enough of this embarrassment in the news.

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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#31 » by Klomp » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:46 am

Traditional Taylor mouthpiece Doogie doesn't think there will be an issue getting enough votes, fwiw.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#32 » by Domejandro » Wed Feb 12, 2025 8:45 am

Absolutely zero chance that the board of governors defy the arbitration results to intervene on behalf of Glen Taylor.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#33 » by Rookie-Mistake » Wed Feb 12, 2025 10:45 am

Then it is done.
I welcome the change of ownership.

With all due respect, he is about to turn 84 and this last ditch decision to squeeze out some more $$$ due to the clubs valuation rising is absolutely embarrassing.



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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#34 » by minimus » Wed Feb 12, 2025 1:43 pm

minimus wrote:There is long list of many things that ARod and Lore should take care of, once they get their ownership:

- get in touch with KG and hang his jersey (the easiest and most entertaining)
- get money for new arena (the most difficult)
- clear up situation with TC contract
- Randle situation
- new contracts of Reid, NAW
- draft

I just hope that they dont f**c up this organisation like new owners of DAL did. ARod and Lore kind of got a second chance because Gobert and Towns trade were made in co-pilot mode with Taylor. But now it is really time to WORK and build something special


+ sign Jaylen Clark to Gupta special deal
+ find backup C
+ draft well AND dont trade drafted players (I am looking at you Tim)
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#35 » by jscott » Wed Feb 12, 2025 1:44 pm

Taylor’s 35+ year reign is highlighted by the fact that he kept the team in MN. We’ll always have to credit him for that but the rest has been such a ****. Wasting KG’s career was criminal but then to take 20 years to get back to relevance is embarrassing.

He is bad and he should feel bad.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#36 » by shrink » Wed Feb 12, 2025 2:48 pm

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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#37 » by shrink » Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:25 pm

TheProdigy wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
Read on Twitter

Privately financed. Amazing. We should all be thrilled to have Glen Taylor, the worst owner in the league, out of the picture.

I hope this is true, but remember, they claimed this before, and even said they had a location picked out. However, when reporters investigated that, they discovered the property wasn’t even for sale, and when they contacted the landowner, he said that ARod and Lore hadn’t even talked to him.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#38 » by shrink » Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:36 pm

To be fair, I will not hold it against ARod and Lore if they later ask for some public financing. It is rare that arenas or stadiums get built without it, and they do provide value to a city (and the owner).

As you know, in Minnesota it isn’t always easy to get the public to vote to raise their taxes for an arena or stadium, and the team needs to be successful to swing the vote. The recent push to trade all our assets and some recent good drafting has made the Wolves more successful than they’ve been in twenty years. The Wolves are top ten in home attendance despite their arena, up from 18th last year and 27th the year before - typical for the last decade.

The correct GM move would be to keep the payroll high to maintain success to get the public to vote to help fund a new arena. It’s a shorter loss for longterm gains. I hope that ARod and Lore maintain our payroll, even if it means lux taxes the next few years.
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#39 » by Klomp » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:24 pm

shrink wrote:The correct GM move would be to keep the payroll high to maintain success to get the public to vote to help fund a new arena. It’s a shorter loss for longterm gains. I hope that ARod and Lore maintain our payroll, even if it means lux taxes the next few years.

Here's where I think it's important to be careful. Luxury tax, absolutely should and likely will be in play. But that doesn't mean it's okay to be reckless and stay above the second apron for years on end. That would be a death sentence fo any front office or ownership group, especially one that may or may not have concerns about finances longterm (I'm not saying that I believe they do).
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Re: Ownership Talk 

Post#40 » by Domejandro » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:33 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:The correct GM move would be to keep the payroll high to maintain success to get the public to vote to help fund a new arena. It’s a shorter loss for longterm gains. I hope that ARod and Lore maintain our payroll, even if it means lux taxes the next few years.

Here's where I think it's important to be careful. Luxury tax, absolutely should and likely will be in play. But that doesn't mean it's okay to be reckless and stay above the second apron for years on end. That would be a death sentence fo any front office or ownership group, especially one that may or may not have concerns about finances longterm (I'm not saying that I believe they do).

For what it is worth, I believe that they do have some concerns, but actually agree that Minnesota cannot be in the Second Apron next season. The long-term implications are brutal, I don't think that it is sustainable.

I think that getting below the Luxury-Tax next season would be a disaster (obviously dependent on how, but just seems problematic given Minnesota's current salary balance), but getting under even the First Apron feels reasonable.

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