2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Having Minnesota as one of my KD trade destinations, as clearly Edwards adores KD and has near Lebron level influence over decisions there, I could see Minnesota giving us most anything we'd demand that they still actually have to give.

The problem though becomes their 2nd apron conditions like us, and having to match salaries dollar for dollar and also key players that have player options this coming summer in both Naz Reid and Julius Randle making a trade near impossible unless we wait and do this trade at next season's trade deadline.

Then theoretically, if we get below the 2nd apron far enough, we could do a package of Randle / Naz Reid/ Dillingham/ picks ( maybe their 32' 1st and a 2nd)?? Or something.

Or maybe McDaniels/ Reid/ DiVencenzo/ Shannon Jr/ Minott? Or Randle/ McDaniels? ( if we include a small 2-3 million salary by sggregagation if somehow far enough below the 2nd apron. But still, the simplest trade would be at the deadline for Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham and some package of picks.

I don't understand the post where he says he would only trade Durant if he asks out.

Is the goal to win a title or not? I get there is some allegiance to players -but the goal is to win . This team is not winning. So why wouldn't you do what you can do to win

I see it with Chargers fans. They didn't want to move on from Keenan Allen and now Bosa and Mack. The goal is to win.

Period. You do what you have to do. And it also means trading Booker

It's the general malaise acceptance of mediocrity and diminished returns phase that we as Suns fans seem to cycle through repeatedly each season as our front office sets these lofty goals/ expectations to hype up our fanbase and then each and every season our team/ front office find new and unexpectedly creative ways to fail spectacularly.

It's like cycling through the stages of grief but as an nba fan. And we're stuck in a loop watching it over and over again with only slight variations that are comically sad! You're absolutely right as are some others that the only true way to break this cycle is to completely tear things down and rebuild everything! Including replacing our tissue soft "choir boy" culture with a more physical, athletic, younger, hungry aggressively competitive culture.

The question is when will our ownership actually wake up to this?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Not at all surprising considering what J Kidd truly knows about the Doncic/ Lakers trade behind the scenes and how it's affecting the team and franchise as a whole.

Of course anyone would choose to separate themselves from this if possible.

holy ****. I hope he sings.

It's a parody account, but I shared it to tease the underlying premise of the truth that is frequently being spun with misdirection now. And I agree that I too hope the truth comes out, and I actually believe that it will in time. Watch for strange happenings with the Mavs in 26/27 possibly moving to Vegas if the Adelson's can't get gambling legalized for their DFW arena plans. This trade had nothing to do with basketball reasons for Dumont and the Mavs ownership actually. And was planned for awhile actually.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Also Ishbia not blowing it up knowing Suns have a terrible schedule left and sitting 11th is just perplexing... and concerning. He thinks the Suns are just in a slump? or is he just emotionally invested rather than being smart and objective.

I don't know why he didn't try to offload either Monte or Tyus due to the logjam at PG?

He must really be deluded to think that this core can win as it is and we are just going to lose Tyus for nothing in the offseason unless Tyus is crazy enough to sign for the minimum again but why would he?

His weaknesses are even more exposed on this small roster and it is just a terrible fit when we are running a ton of guards out there.

Ishbia unfortunately has no concept of basketball beyond fan/ media/ NBA 2K perceptions. And Jones is really just a former player/ "Yes Man" with terrible asset valuation judgment that has gotten by on the his connections to Lebron James and not really having to do anything actually GM related other than defer to ownerships' decisions.


And be agreeable from a position of contextual ignorance, empowering our 2 owners bad decisions to keep his job while doing mostly nothing and collecting a paycheck. His record is glaringly reflective of his lack of experience in his role.

This is why you hear them speak on making decisions as a collective in order to insulate any one person from direct accountability. It'd really be clever if it wasn't so sad and detrimental to our team.

But we desperately need legitimate experience in these roles and actual spending on scouting and talent/ asset valuation to acquire top tier people at these positions. Otherwise examples like Tyus Jones, Monte Morris, and numerous others will just continue being a dunk cost for us.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Not at all surprising considering what J Kidd truly knows about the Doncic/ Lakers trade behind the scenes and how it's affecting the team and franchise as a whole.

Of course anyone would choose to separate themselves from this if possible.

Fake Shams account

Sharms

[bwgood77]

Also Ishbia not blowing it up knowing Suns have a terrible schedule left and sitting 11th is just perplexing... and concerning. He thinks the Suns are just in a slump? or is he just emotionally invested rather than being smart and objective.

I think people were somehow fooled by that good stretch we had where we played Atlanta twice, Washington twice, Charlotte twice, Philly without Embiid, Detroit, Brooklyn and Utah. Like we had righted the ship and turned it around. Even though we barely won a lot of those games...actually lost some of them, like one to Charlotte and one to Atlanta without Jalen Johnson.

[bwgood77]

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KD has missed a lot higher % of games though and Nurkic regressed in a big way. But starting Tyus has hurt. I don't know if that is on Bud though. I imagine Ishbia promised him he could start.

No way he signs for the minimum if we don't tell him he will start.

[Frank Lee]

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Not at all surprising considering what J Kidd truly knows about the Doncic/ Lakers trade behind the scenes and how it's affecting the team and franchise as a whole.

Of course anyone would choose to separate themselves from this if possible.

We are getting out ‘train wrecked’ by Dallas. Or is this fake news?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Not at all surprising considering what J Kidd truly knows about the Doncic/ Lakers trade behind the scenes and how it's affecting the team and franchise as a whole.

Of course anyone would choose to separate themselves from this if possible.

almost got me!!

Yeah! A lot of people are satirizing the situation because it's just so terrible and absurd. I personally don't care for either team or the outcome aside from the atypical pattern of the NBA always colluding to help prop up the flakers and their intolerable fanbase by association.


I did feel like sharing it though because it does speak to the absurdity of the situation and wish that more people would have interest in looking into the business reasons that fueled this trade by the Mavs ownership and business interests in their DFW casino plans leveraging the Mavs franchise to amend the Texas constitution to legalize gambling in Texas under threat of moving the Mavs franchise to Vegas if the texas legislature doesn't comply.

Typical carrot and stick business/ political scenario at the root of this trade honestly. A lot of weird things will probably happento/for the Mavs around the 26' -27' season when the Texas legislature reconvenes. But the NBA is a ( profit driven) business after all:-?

[bwgood77]

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Dunn only getting 5 minutes???

Yeah, I didn't understand why TyTy was playing so much.

[bwgood77]

Let's be clear - no one could've done anything meaningful with this trainwreck of a roster. Many people pointed it out when we hired Bud. But, having said that, although Bud was never the best of the best, he is a solid coach. Trouble is, he really looks apathetic, disengaged and disinterested most of the time. It's perfectly reasonable after the tragedy. On top of that, if we finally take a new direction and start a full rebuild, he's a very poor choice going forward. I have no doubt he's a better coach overall than Vogel but our interests do not align right now. I will say yet again - bring Lloyd here and give the man some time with a new, young core.

What Lloyd? Lloyd Pierce? Tommy Lloyd? Lloyd Dobler? Some other Lloyd?

[bwgood77]

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Not at all surprising considering what J Kidd truly knows about the Doncic/ Lakers trade behind the scenes and how it's affecting the team and franchise as a whole.

Of course anyone would choose to separate themselves from this if possible.

From Sharms Arania fan? I'll believe it if it comes from the real Shams.

[bwgood77]

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Having Minnesota as one of my KD trade destinations, as clearly Edwards adores KD and has near Lebron level influence over decisions there, I could see Minnesota giving us most anything we'd demand that they still actually have to give.

The problem though becomes their 2nd apron conditions like us, and having to match salaries dollar for dollar and also key players that have player options this coming summer in both Naz Reid and Julius Randle making a trade near impossible unless we wait and do this trade at next season's trade deadline.

Then theoretically, if we get below the 2nd apron far enough, we could do a package of Randle / Naz Reid/ Dillingham/ picks ( maybe their 32' 1st and a 2nd)?? Or something.

Or maybe McDaniels/ Reid/ DiVencenzo/ Shannon Jr/ Minott? Or Randle/ McDaniels? ( if we include a small 2-3 million salary by sggregagation if somehow far enough below the 2nd apron. But still, the simplest trade would be at the deadline for Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham and some package of picks.

Heck if we could get McDaniels and Reed and Divincenzo and leave Randle out I like that better. The only thing is if we let Randle's huge contract expire it helps us.

They only have 2 firsts possible. The 25 first from Detroit (protected 1-13)...it probably conveys but if not it would roll forward with less protection so would likely convey next year or the year after. Then they have traded the same picks we have so there only one they have is the 31 1st. So that's a ways off. But maybe we get that unprotected and deal it for 2 or 3 firsts. (Likely not as valuable as the Suns 31 1st since they have Ant).

[bwgood77]

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Having Minnesota as one of my KD trade destinations, as clearly Edwards adores KD and has near Lebron level influence over decisions there, I could see Minnesota giving us most anything we'd demand that they still actually have to give.

The problem though becomes their 2nd apron conditions like us, and having to match salaries dollar for dollar and also key players that have player options this coming summer in both Naz Reid and Julius Randle making a trade near impossible unless we wait and do this trade at next season's trade deadline.

Then theoretically, if we get below the 2nd apron far enough, we could do a package of Randle / Naz Reid/ Dillingham/ picks ( maybe their 32' 1st and a 2nd)?? Or something.

Or maybe McDaniels/ Reid/ DiVencenzo/ Shannon Jr/ Minott? Or Randle/ McDaniels? ( if we include a small 2-3 million salary by sggregagation if somehow far enough below the 2nd apron. But still, the simplest trade would be at the deadline for Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham and some package of picks.

I don't understand the post where he says he would only trade Durant if he asks out.

Is the goal to win a title or not? I get there is some allegiance to players -but the goal is to win . This team is not winning. So why wouldn't you do what you can do to win

I see it with Chargers fans. They didn't want to move on from Keenan Allen and now Bosa and Mack. The goal is to win.

Period. You do what you have to do. And it also means trading Booker

Yeah, trade him. Who cares if he wants out? I can understand loyalty to players to some extent, but not over loyalty to fans. I hated to lose Keenan Allen though. I would not have minded losing Bosa. Maybe we get Keenan back cheap for one year. But probably going for Tee Higgins.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Not at all surprising considering what J Kidd truly knows about the Doncic/ Lakers trade behind the scenes and how it's affecting the team and franchise as a whole.

Of course anyone would choose to separate themselves from this if possible.

We are getting out ‘train wrecked’ by Dallas.

Looking at/ anticipating their very bleak future and the likelihood of their picks in 27, -30 easily being lottery value. This is why I'd strongly prioritize trading KD to either OkC in a package that would include the Dallas 28' unprotected 1st ( swap) or to San Antonio for a package that would include the Dallas 2030 1st swap (unprotected) or the Minnesota (Top 1 protected) 2030 1st (pick swap).

Either of those picks have a great chance of being top 5 lottery assets.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Having Minnesota as one of my KD trade destinations, as clearly Edwards adores KD and has near Lebron level influence over decisions there, I could see Minnesota giving us most anything we'd demand that they still actually have to give.

The problem though becomes their 2nd apron conditions like us, and having to match salaries dollar for dollar and also key players that have player options this coming summer in both Naz Reid and Julius Randle making a trade near impossible unless we wait and do this trade at next season's trade deadline.

Then theoretically, if we get below the 2nd apron far enough, we could do a package of Randle / Naz Reid/ Dillingham/ picks ( maybe their 32' 1st and a 2nd)?? Or something.

Or maybe McDaniels/ Reid/ DiVencenzo/ Shannon Jr/ Minott? Or Randle/ McDaniels? ( if we include a small 2-3 million salary by sggregagation if somehow far enough below the 2nd apron. But still, the simplest trade would be at the deadline for Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham and some package of picks.

Heck if we could get McDaniels and Reed and Divincenzo and leave Randle out I like that better. The only thing is if we let Randle's huge contract expire it helps us.

They only have 2 firsts possible. The 25 first from Detroit (protected 1-13)...it probably conveys but if not it would roll forward with less protection so would likely convey next year or the year after. Then they have traded the same picks we have so there only one they have is the 31 1st. So that's a ways off. But maybe we get that unprotected and deal it for 2 or 3 firsts. (Likely not as valuable as the Suns 31 1st since they have Ant).

The only problem again would be that any trade involving Reid or Randle would require them to pick up their player options and agree to a sign n trade. And can we even do that prior to free agency? Wouldn't we have to at least wait then until next season's trade deadline to do this deal?

Then if we're far enough under the 2nd apron (waive Martin and Micic) then we could take back a package of McDaniels/ Reid/ Divencenzo/ Shannon Jr/ Minott/ 32' 1st/ 29' 2nd? Personally, I'd kind of prefer just getting a Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ 32' 1st package as it'd be easier. And we could also flip Dillingham if we chose to for another 1st or maybe Randle as a huge expiring to a 2nd apron team for another player?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Dunn only getting 5 minutes???

Yeah, I didn't understand why TyTy was playing so much.

I believe it was because Dunn came up hobbling a bit on the same ankle that he injured previously, and of course not having Martin available. But yeah, we definitely deserve some clarity on Dunns' injury condition and I could understand if Dunn wasn't fully healed and he was exercising caution just in case to have him available if we somehow make the play in tournament.

At least, once we officially are eliminated from the playoffs by virtue of record, then we should have a number of remaining games for our rooks to get more good burn.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/279275/Kevin-Durant-Suns-Realize-He-Probably-Will-Be-Traded-In-Offseason

Kevin Durant, Suns Realize He 'Probably' Will Be Traded In Offseason

FEB 12, 2025 9:03 AM

Kevin Durant laughed off a question about his future with the Phoenix Suns following their loss to the Memphis Grizzlies on Tuesday, which was his first game since the trade deadline when he unexpectedly emerged in negotiations.

"He's probably going to get traded this summer," said Brian Windhorst on Get Up on Wednesday. "He knows it. The Suns know it. The rest of the league knows it. They're going to enjoy him while they have him. It's not really controversial in all honesty. 

"They're under .500. They have a $230 million payroll, then add over $100 million on tax on top of that."

The Suns have disappointed this season despite their high payroll and all the moves they have made to win-now.

"While I would never make an ironclad prediction, I would expect Durant and the Suns this summer to work together to find a new home," said Windhorst. "He has one year left on his contract, which would give him control as to where that would be."

If the Suns put Durant on the trade block this summer, various reports have linked the Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves as having interest. The Golden State Warriors were close to a trade for Durant ahead of the deadline before he expressed a desire not to return to his former team.

BRIAN WINDHORST/ESPN

[BobbieL]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/279275/Kevin-Durant-Suns-Realize-He-Probably-Will-Be-Traded-In-Offseason

Kevin Durant, Suns Realize He 'Probably' Will Be Traded In Offseason

FEB 12, 2025 9:03 AM

Kevin Durant laughed off a question about his future with the Phoenix Suns following their loss to the Memphis Grizzlies on Tuesday, which was his first game since the trade deadline when he unexpectedly emerged in negotiations.

"He's probably going to get traded this summer," said Brian Windhorst on Get Up on Wednesday. "He knows it. The Suns know it. The rest of the league knows it. They're going to enjoy him while they have him. It's not really controversial in all honesty. 

"They're under .500. They have a $230 million payroll, then add over $100 million on tax on top of that."

The Suns have disappointed this season despite their high payroll and all the moves they have made to win-now.

"While I would never make an ironclad prediction, I would expect Durant and the Suns this summer to work together to find a new home," said Windhorst. "He has one year left on his contract, which would give him control as to where that would be."

If the Suns put Durant on the trade block this summer, various reports have linked the Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves as having interest. The Golden State Warriors were close to a trade for Durant ahead of the deadline before he expressed a desire not to return to his former team.

BRIAN WINDHORST/ESPN

I saw that clip this morning on Get Up. The Suns should be open for business with Durant and if they are under the apron, see if they can attach O'Neal or Allen. It could be tricky.

The Suns are just in neutral right now with this group. I know people like Booker -- but you trade Durant, you are even worse off and Bookers value will only go down more. Trade them both this summer, see if you can move Allen and O'Neal -- I get Beal will be left but maybe that opens a chance to wiave his NTC - I am not sure there is a team with two bad contracts that total 50+m - but wouldn 't that be better to have two contracts totally 50m to make a trade easier.

[SideSwipe]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/279275/Kevin-Durant-Suns-Realize-He-Probably-Will-Be-Traded-In-Offseason

Kevin Durant, Suns Realize He 'Probably' Will Be Traded In Offseason

FEB 12, 2025 9:03 AM

Kevin Durant laughed off a question about his future with the Phoenix Suns following their loss to the Memphis Grizzlies on Tuesday, which was his first game since the trade deadline when he unexpectedly emerged in negotiations.

"He's probably going to get traded this summer," said Brian Windhorst on Get Up on Wednesday. "He knows it. The Suns know it. The rest of the league knows it. They're going to enjoy him while they have him. It's not really controversial in all honesty. 

"They're under .500. They have a $230 million payroll, then add over $100 million on tax on top of that."

The Suns have disappointed this season despite their high payroll and all the moves they have made to win-now.

"While I would never make an ironclad prediction, I would expect Durant and the Suns this summer to work together to find a new home," said Windhorst. "He has one year left on his contract, which would give him control as to where that would be."

If the Suns put Durant on the trade block this summer, various reports have linked the Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves as having interest. The Golden State Warriors were close to a trade for Durant ahead of the deadline before he expressed a desire not to return to his former team.

BRIAN WINDHORST/ESPN

I saw that clip this morning on Get Up. The Suns should be open for business with Durant and if they are under the apron, see if they can attach O'Neal or Allen. It could be tricky.

The Suns are just in neutral right now with this group. I know people like Booker -- but you trade Durant, you are even worse off and Bookers value will only go down more. Trade them both this summer, see if you can move Allen and O'Neal -- I get Beal will be left but maybe that opens a chance to wiave his NTC - I am not sure there is a team with two bad contracts that total 50+m - but wouldn 't that be better to have two contracts totally 50m to make a trade easier.

First course of action right now is to talk with Beals reps to talk to them about potential destinations Beal might accept over the summer. A serious 1, 4 or 5 should all be in play along with potential cap savings. We should deeply explore that before we look at moving Durant seriously. If Beal says "I want to be in Phoenix for the rest of my career", then pivot to Durant to get mid-career guys and picks.

Personally I like the idea of adding Sabonis and playing him as a 4 along with a 5 since he has shown he can hit the three effectively and can rebound very well. Jones, Booker, Durant, Sabonis, Richards/Bol

[Ghost of Kleine]

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