Playoffs locked up. Just happened. Like a few minutes ago. Just now! All locked up!

[zeebneeb]

Ausar Thompson highlights VS Bulls.

https://youtu.be/Sxw2kwI-UHY?si=ETka7JIB--MFXADK

[bstein14]

Finishing in the top 6 is starting to feel more and more realistic. Miami without Butler is hard to judge how they will finish out the season. Orlando hasn't really looked all that good even with their two main guys back. Even the teams just in front of us in Indiana and Milwaukee look reachable IMO. It feels like the Middleton for Kyle Kuzma trade is unlikely to help the Bucks when it comes both to team morale and playing winning basketball. He's a me first guy and that can kill a locker room.

[zeebneeb]

Finishing in the top 6 is starting to feel more and more realistic. Miami without Butler is hard to judge how they will finish out the season. Orlando hasn't really looked all that good even with their two main guys back. Even the teams just in front of us in Indiana and Milwaukee look reachable IMO. It feels like the Middleton for Kyle Kuzma trade is unlikely to help the Bucks when it comes both to team morale and playing winning basketball. He's a me first guy and that can kill a locker room.

Bingo. There is a reason I've kept 3 through 10 in the daily updates. The 3rd spot is close to becoming unreachable for Detroit, but still in reach for the Pacers.

What gives me confidence about the Pistons after the break is this;

HOME-14-13
ROAD-14-13

For context, there are only 4 teams in the East that have a winning record on the road;

Cavs
Celtics
Knicks
Pistons

1 of 4 in the East, and 1 of 9 leaguewide. What the Pistons are doing this season, is very special.

[bstein14]

Finishing in the top 6 is starting to feel more and more realistic. Miami without Butler is hard to judge how they will finish out the season. Orlando hasn't really looked all that good even with their two main guys back. Even the teams just in front of us in Indiana and Milwaukee look reachable IMO. It feels like the Middleton for Kyle Kuzma trade is unlikely to help the Bucks when it comes both to team morale and playing winning basketball. He's a me first guy and that can kill a locker room.

Bingo. There is a reason I've kept 3 through 10 in the daily updates. The 3rd spot is close to becoming unreachable for Detroit, but still in reach for the Pacers.

What gives me confidence about the Pistons after the break is this;

HOME-14-13
ROAD-14-13

For context, there are only 4 teams in the East that have a winning record on the road;

Cavs
Celtics
Knicks
Pistons

1 of 4 in the East, and 1 of 9 leaguewide. What the Pistons are doing this season, is very special.

Bucks have a tougher schedule to finish out the season for sure (Minny tonight). We have them in back-to-back games to finish out the regular season two months from now which could end up being super meaningful in the 4/5/6 race.

[Kalamazoo317]

Feeling pretty justified in posting that I wasn't sure we'd miss Ivey that much.

[Snakebites]

Feeling pretty justified in posting that I wasn't sure we'd miss Ivey that much.

Or would we be even BETTER with him?

Unrelated note: The fact that we have only one fewer win than a team currently slotted to have HOME COURT in round one is mind blowing to me. Yeah we have 3 more losses but still, that's wild. We are much closer to home court advantage than we are to falling out of the play-in (which seems almost impossible now).

[bstein14]

Feeling pretty justified in posting that I wasn't sure we'd miss Ivey that much.

Or would we be even BETTER with him?

The fact that we have only one fewer win than a team currently slotted to have HOME COURT in round one is mind blowing to me. Yeah we have 3 more losses but still, that's wild. We are much closer to home court advantage than we are to falling out of the play-in (which seems almost impossible now).

When it comes to playing winning/losing basketball, Ausar is a better player than Ivey. That said, I like many here thought that the offense would bog down a bit with two non shooters in Duren and Ausar starting together and that really hasn't been the case at all.

Ivey took notable steps forward this year too so the loss hurt some of our depth, but the reality is Ausar getting more minutes, and even guys like THJ and Beasley getting more looks hasn't been bad for us. Beasley, THJ, Ausar and even Sasser all have a higher TS% this season than what Ivey had. Ivey turned the ball over at a higher rate than even Cade, and Sasser has more assists per minute and per possession than Ivey as well.

The truth is, Ivey is still a super high upside speedy athletic player but as of his first 30 games this season before getting injured he still wasn't making a big positive impact on winning basketball... and that's fine he's still young and getting better and he did take a noticeable step forward in multiple areas from the previous season.

[Cowology]

Feeling pretty justified in posting that I wasn't sure we'd miss Ivey that much.

Or would we be even BETTER with him?

The fact that we have only one fewer win than a team currently slotted to have HOME COURT in round one is mind blowing to me. Yeah we have 3 more losses but still, that's wild. We are much closer to home court advantage than we are to falling out of the play-in (which seems almost impossible now).

Maybe. It feels as if the entire team continues to improve both individually and as a cohesive unit, so you could sort of extrapolate from there. Ivey brings/brought another explosive element and more consistent outside shooting than THj. I dunno. I'm still kind iffy on Ivey personally.

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

[Snakebites]

Feeling pretty justified in posting that I wasn't sure we'd miss Ivey that much.

Or would we be even BETTER with him?

The fact that we have only one fewer win than a team currently slotted to have HOME COURT in round one is mind blowing to me. Yeah we have 3 more losses but still, that's wild. We are much closer to home court advantage than we are to falling out of the play-in (which seems almost impossible now).

Maybe. It feels as if the entire team continues to improve both individually and as a cohesive unit, so you could sort of extrapolate from there. Ivey brings/brought another explosive element and more consistent outside shooting than THj. I dunno. I'm still kind iffy on Ivey personally.

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

I guess I look at games we lost and some of them we lost because of a larger drop off with Cade on the bench.

I could be wrong of course.

[VicVinegar]

I still think Ivey is a big part of this team's core future, but yeah the injury might be a blessing in disguise. Not because it's "addition by subtraction", but because it forced others to step up, and you're seeing that improvement in a lot of guys' games. Ivey the big negative was defense, but while he's been out: Cade is turning the ball over less, Tobias is taking (slightly) less stupid shots, Duren and Ausar have shown great ball movement, Ausar stopped shooting (missed) threes, Font is..... well, not everyone is chipping in. The hope is that these good habits stick with the other starters when Ivey comes back. And hopefully the good defensive habits can rub off on Ivey.

[VicVinegar]

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

I'm not saying Ivey is the better player or should get more minutes, but if it's just straight up about rotation, Beasley should definitely be the one coming off the bench. We've seen Ivey come off the bench last year when Killian started, and it was not great. Ivey plays better when he's starting. As far as Beasley goes, he's played his 6th man role to PERFECTION this season, I don't know why you'd want to mess with that. I think he's top 3 in 6th man of the year award odds right now. Having a lethal shooter off the bench when the rest of the bench can't shoot for a lick is such an asset. There's a reason the Pistons keep starting THJ over Beasley despite Beasley's dominance, and it's not because THJ is good, lol.

[MotownMadness]

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

I'm not saying Ivey is the better player or should get more minutes, but if it's just straight up about rotation, Beasley should definitely be the one coming off the bench. We've seen Ivey come off the bench last year when Killian started, and it was not great. Ivey plays better when he's starting. As far as Beasley goes, he's played his 6th man role to PERFECTION this season, I don't know why you'd want to mess with that. I think he's top 3 in 6th man of the year award odds right now. Having a lethal shooter off the bench when the rest of the bench can't shoot for a lick is such an asset. There's a reason the Pistons keep starting THJ over Beasley despite Beasley's dominance, and it's not because THJ is good, lol.

Yeah I would keep Beasley in this role

[Snakebites]

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

I'm not saying Ivey is the better player or should get more minutes, but if it's just straight up about rotation, Beasley should definitely be the one coming off the bench. We've seen Ivey come off the bench last year when Killian started, and it was not great. Ivey plays better when he's starting. As far as Beasley goes, he's played his 6th man role to PERFECTION this season, I don't know why you'd want to mess with that. I think he's top 3 in 6th man of the year award odds right now. Having a lethal shooter off the bench when the rest of the bench can't shoot for a lick is such an asset. There's a reason the Pistons keep starting THJ over Beasley despite Beasley's dominance, and it's not because THJ is good, lol.

I'd start Beasley, though Ivey might get more minutes- he should get minutes both with and without Cade on the floor.

An ideal rotation has Cade getting fewer mintues than he's getting recently, with Ivey playing 100 percent of the time Cade isn't.

[vic]

Or would we be even BETTER with him?

The fact that we have only one fewer win than a team currently slotted to have HOME COURT in round one is mind blowing to me. Yeah we have 3 more losses but still, that's wild. We are much closer to home court advantage than we are to falling out of the play-in (which seems almost impossible now).

Maybe. It feels as if the entire team continues to improve both individually and as a cohesive unit, so you could sort of extrapolate from there. Ivey brings/brought another explosive element and more consistent outside shooting than THj. I dunno. I'm still kind iffy on Ivey personally.

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

I guess I look at games we lost and some of them we lost because of a larger drop off with Cade on the bench.

I could be wrong of course.

I think we would definitely be better with Ivey over THJ in the starting lineup.
Ivey was playing really well and closing games… plus he was becoming consistent scoring at all 3 levels which is more than you get from THJ.

This teams Improvement wasn’t about losing Ivey, it’s due to Ausar being a starter and the defense and transition offense he brings.

Ausar + Ivey >>> Ausar + THJ

[zeebneeb]

Maybe. It feels as if the entire team continues to improve both individually and as a cohesive unit, so you could sort of extrapolate from there. Ivey brings/brought another explosive element and more consistent outside shooting than THj. I dunno. I'm still kind iffy on Ivey personally.

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

I guess I look at games we lost and some of them we lost because of a larger drop off with Cade on the bench.

I could be wrong of course.

I think we would definitely be better with Ivey over THJ in the starting lineup.
Ivey was playing really well and closing games… plus he was becoming consistent scoring at all 3 levels which is more than you get from THJ.

This teams Improvement wasn’t about losing Ivey, it’s due to Ausar being a starter and the defense and transition offense he brings.

Ausar + Ivey >>> Ausar + THJ

Exactly. I was amongst Iveys biggest detractors when he was drafted, as I was sure he wouldn't fit alongside Cade. Before he went down, him and Cade had really started developing a playstyle that worked, and was working beautifully.

Ivey was also shooting the lights out from deep his last 5 games(60+%!) And over 40% for the year, on 5 attempts. Ivey starting over THJ, makes the Pistons infinitely better.

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Harris
Duren

Really, really sucks I ey went down when he did. Whats happening right now is amazing, with Cade/Ausar/Duren all growing, game by game, and really starting to establish themselves.

[Cowology]

There is a reason I said "Hypothetically, in a vacuum". I explicitly left THj out of the conversation because he has always been a place-holder and isn't particularly relevant to the conversation. Of course starting Ivey is better. That's a given. It's also not particularly important.

If you think we are better with Cade/Ivey than Cade/Beasley that is fine. I will respectfully disagree. And for what it's worth, I agree that Beasleys' best role is as a 6th man, but since I view both him & Ivey that way I'd rather have the guy who plays better off ball starting with Cade and the guy plays better with the ball coming off the bench.

[Canadafan]

Finishing in the top 6 is starting to feel more and more realistic. Miami without Butler is hard to judge how they will finish out the season. Orlando hasn't really looked all that good even with their two main guys back. Even the teams just in front of us in Indiana and Milwaukee look reachable IMO. It feels like the Middleton for Kyle Kuzma trade is unlikely to help the Bucks when it comes both to team morale and playing winning basketball. He's a me first guy and that can kill a locker room.

Ya i was convinced Orlando and Heat would pass us but nowwwww, I'm not so sure lol
If we get 6th seedand play the Knicks, I'm going to new York. Even if it's just to get a scalped ticket for standing room only in the 4th quarter

[bstein14]

Remaining February Schedules:
Detroit: @ SA, @ ATL, vs. LAC, vs. BOS, vs. DEN
Indiana: vs. MEM, vs. LAC, vs. DEN, vs. TOR, @ MIA
Milwaukee: vs. LAC, @ WAS, vs. MIA, @ HOU, vs. DEN

We all have Denver and LAC coming up as home games so those kind of cancel out. Schedules are pretty even for the 4/5/6 seeds to finish out the month post all-star break.

[zeebneeb]

Interesting couple stats for y'all before we reconvene next Friday the 21st. (@Spurs)

Cade Cunningham has only had 8 games this season, with double digit rebounds. All 8 of those are triple doubles.

Cade has 23 double digit assist games.

[flow]

Maybe. It feels as if the entire team continues to improve both individually and as a cohesive unit, so you could sort of extrapolate from there. Ivey brings/brought another explosive element and more consistent outside shooting than THj. I dunno. I'm still kind iffy on Ivey personally.

Hypothetically, in a vacuum would you rather start Beasley or Ivey next to Cade next season? Supposing they are both defensively challenged, is it better to have Beasley's shooting or Ivey's slashing? To me, I think the answer is start Beasley and bring Ivey off the bench to run the 2nd unit. I think we're better with Ivey... but he's best suited to 6th man. He's more of a Jamal Crawford/Vinnie Johnson type.

That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if I'm wrong and if it makes us a better team I wouldn't be mad about it.

I guess I look at games we lost and some of them we lost because of a larger drop off with Cade on the bench.

I could be wrong of course.

I think we would definitely be better with Ivey over THJ in the starting lineup.
Ivey was playing really well and closing games… plus he was becoming consistent scoring at all 3 levels which is more than you get from THJ.

This teams Improvement wasn’t about losing Ivey, it’s due to Ausar being a starter and the defense and transition offense he brings.

Ausar + Ivey >>> Ausar + THJ

I see it differently. With Ausar blossoming into the playmaker he's becoming, I'm moving Ivey to the bench. I don't need him impeding Ausar's usage. Which he would.

At the same time, I hate taking a hot player out of his rhythm, and that's what moving Beasley into the starting lineup might do. So I'd look for another option to replace THJ (if he's gone) in the starting lineup and bring both Ivey and Beasley off the bench.

.