How tainted would any future LeBron rings be with Luka as the main man?

[The High Cyde]

You die hard Jordan fans/ LeBron haters are doing more to support James’ GOAT case every passing day. It’s pretty fun to see, a bit sad cause it’s kind of getting concerning though. There should be grass somewhere outside, go touch it. Or hell, smoke some lmao

[dshearn]

All depends on what Lebron looks like in those final runs.... nobody does it alone...regardless, but some MVPs clearly did more work then others...

[dautjazz]

They wouldn't be tainted at all lol. Are Kareem's rings tainted when he played with Magic near the end of his career? Of course not.

Lebron winning a ring or two with Luka would do nothing but add to his legacy, not hurt it. As for his debate against Jordan, at this point we've seen both at their best so unless you already have Lebron as the GOAT, him winning another two as the second guy to Luka probably won't change that.

That's a great point, some Lebron haters have Kareem above Lebron, and in the five titles with the Lakers, he only won one Finals MVP. I think putting too much weight on who was the best player during each title is silly. Regardless of who was better, they both needed each other, as would Luka in order to win in 2025. Lebron elevates his game so much in the playoffs that he could still win Finals MVP, if not he probably wouldn't perform significantly worse than Luka. It certainly wouldn't be the gap between MJ and Pippen during their titles.

[dakomish23]

No one sane considers Duncan's last ring any less valuable just b/c Kawhi was the man.

[The Laker Kid]

Not tainted at all. Future rings will just be icing on the cake. If he can power the Lakers to pass the Celtics in # of banners, then he can make the case for being in the top 10 Laker list.

[art_tatum]

Tainted is the wrong word, but he won’t be the #1 if the win a chip. So the chips won’t mean the same but will still add to his legacy.

[michaelm]

You die hard Jordan fans/ LeBron haters are doing more to support James’ GOAT case every passing day. It’s pretty fun to see, a bit sad cause it’s kind of getting concerning though. There should be grass somewhere outside, go touch it. Or hell, smoke some lmao

You perhaps could wait till he wins a title with Luka first, but such a title as a significant contributor would obviously only elevate his stature further.

There is the thing as has been said that Kareem non hypothetically won 2 titles at a similar age to LeBron’s current age in a quite analogous situation for the same franchise. Those titles have been dismissed by more than a few LeBron partisans on the basis that Kareem was not the lead player. If a 5th title for LeBron would be glorious perhaps Kareem’s titles require re-evaluation. I am led to believe he even played defense.

[michaelm]

From Wade/Bosh to Kyrie/Love to peak AD and now to soon to be peak Luka, no top 10 player in league history has benefitted more from ‘stacking the deck’ so to speak and playing with such a variety of superstars/stars in league history as LeBron James. Even despite that he was incapable of matching Michael Jordan’s far more impressive 6 titles, including two 3-peats, in vastly less amount of time and with less star power and help.

LeBron’s title count seemed sealed at 4 until the most nonsensical trade in NBA history went down last week, gifting him a top 2-3 player who has yet to enter his prime even.

So the question is - how little value / how much taint should one assign to any future title(s) a 40+ year old LeBron who is clearly 2nd fiddle racks up? To me these would essentially be emptier than Durant’s 2 Warriors rings, and that’s saying a lot. Everyone knows LeBron is incapable of winning 6 titles the real way, thereby disqualifying him from true GOAT status forever.

Your inability to credit Lebron for winning because he had teammates is actually a testament to his greatness. No one puts an asterisk on MJ's rings because they went out and grabbed Rodman and Kukoc even though he already had a top 50 all time talent on his team. MJ went into every finals with the best team and as a heavy favorite. There is an argument to be made the each one of Bron's finals wins were against teams significantly better than any team MJ ever faced. If Bron is able win in an era where vs OKC/Mem/Den and then Boston/NYK/or Cle at 40 yrs old can we really say he stacked the deck? It's crazy to think Bron's rings only count if he is able to win without any other good players. That is a standard that only gets placed on him.

You obviously don’t read Scranton Bulls’ posts, probably a wise chouce..

[michaelm]

why in the world would they be tainted? Lebron is 40 years old, no player in history has played at this level at that age. Anyone expecting a 40 year old to be the primary option on a title team is delusional.

There is some guy called Kareem you could look up. He has 2 non hypothetical titles won at the ages of 40 and 41. He even played defense I am led to believe.

[JRoy]

Just need another Superfriend to be traded to LAL for far below market value.

[Jadoogar]

why in the world would they be tainted? Lebron is 40 years old, no player in history has played at this level at that age. Anyone expecting a 40 year old to be the primary option on a title team is delusional.

There is some guy called Kareem you could look up. He has 2 non hypothetical titles won at the ages of 40 and 41. He even played defense I am led to believe.

1. It's not bad to be in the same category as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Kareem averaged 14ppg (4th on the team in scoring) and 10ppg (5th on the team) those 2 seasons; in no way was he the primary option
3. Lebron is currently leading his team in scoring and second in minutes

[bledredwine]

You die hard Jordan fans/ LeBron haters are doing more to support James’ GOAT case every passing day. It’s pretty fun to see, a bit sad cause it’s kind of getting concerning though. There should be grass somewhere outside, go touch it. Or hell, smoke some lmao

There’s no GOAT case. And his championships will be treated like any player who has to be the second option and ride coat tails. He’s played eight more seasons, bandwagoned to multiple teams and still can’t catch Jordan, who three peated twice. I’m sorry but that’s a reality you’re going to eventually have to deal with. He can team up with the Silver family and it still won’t mean a damned thing because that other guy was just straight up better at the game and a better winner as well.

[michaelm]

why in the world would they be tainted? Lebron is 40 years old, no player in history has played at this level at that age. Anyone expecting a 40 year old to be the primary option on a title team is delusional.

There is some guy called Kareem you could look up. He has 2 non hypothetical titles won at the ages of 40 and 41. He even played defense I am led to believe.

1. It's not bad to be in the same category as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Kareem averaged 14ppg (4th on the team in scoring) and 10ppg (5th on the team) those 2 seasons; in no way was he the primary option
3. Lebron is currently leading his team in scoring and second in minutes

As I said Kareem did play defense however, and eventually contributed to the winning of two titles. Depends what you consider important, regular season offensive statistics without playing much defense on a team which is not really contending rate lower than contributing significantly to 2 titles for me.

This whole thread concerns whether Luka being on the team would devalue a 5th title for LeBron if they won one btw.

[ScrantonBulls]

You die hard Jordan fans/ LeBron haters are doing more to support James’ GOAT case every passing day. It’s pretty fun to see, a bit sad cause it’s kind of getting concerning though. There should be grass somewhere outside, go touch it. Or hell, smoke some lmao

The insecurity about LeBron is at an all-time high from Jordan fans. I don't know how they would cope with another LeBron title. It's already ugly as is. Imagine it after another title.

[The High Cyde]

You die hard Jordan fans/ LeBron haters are doing more to support James’ GOAT case every passing day. It’s pretty fun to see, a bit sad cause it’s kind of getting concerning though. There should be grass somewhere outside, go touch it. Or hell, smoke some lmao

There’s no GOAT case.

Well it must be true if you keep saying so, thanks for clearing that up!

[axeman23]

There was the small matter of Klay having sustained an ACL rupture and an Achilles’ tendon rupture and not having played for 2 and a half years, and Green being undersized for a PF let alone a center and consequently being rather battered by the age of 32, but no matter. Curry’s teams imo even more than Jordan’s teams were greater than the sum of their parts, while not having the benefit of having Jordan as a starter of course.

And of course any team other than a LeBron team must be assumed to have all their players at their absolute peaks at any given time, and if formerly highly elite players have less elite performances standing around on a team playing heliocentric LeBron ball that is on them as well.

#1 TBH, i forgot about the injury, BUT, Klay still put up 20PPG in the regular season, and 19ppg in the playoffs Also "Dray being undersized for a PF"? I thought thats why you were "lightyears ahead" of us other troglodytes? So, you're arguing Dray will NOT be in the HOF?

Also, tbf... This was in response to an (oddly) non-GS fan sayinging Lebron had to win a chip with NO help to equal Curry's 2022 chip. Like, JORDAN, MAGIC, LARRY, WILT, LEW, NEVER done it either, so why is this some NEW requirement? Closest thing I can remember is probably Dirk, and respect to him, 1000%...

He is actually a GSW fan, and I don’t agree with him.

Sure, Dray is great, and was quite valuable in that series, but 2022 was a fair way down the track for him from when he started as a bench SF 10 years previously, and playing PF and his best role in the play-offs at center has worn him down. Iirc he missed a considerable number of games late in the regular season with a back injury which might actually have made him fresher for the play-offs. Klay actually played OK in the finals but that was pretty close to his last hurrah. Certainly Klay was no more prime Klay than Wade was a top 5 player in the NBA for what was LeBron’s biggest carry job, the 2013 Heatles title, and Wade’s deterioration from injury is always brought up by you guys in regard to that title, which was rather my point.

Yeah, no argument from me. All fair points there...

[Patches Perry]

Not tainted at all, although I imagine any titles he wins from here on out wouldn't change anyone's opinion on him for better or worse.

[prophet_of_rage]

This is dumb on so many levels. Judging a career by rings as if it's an individual sport, saying a ring is "tainted" if you're not the best player on the team, implying that if you're not the best player on a team you're basically a role player who was along for the ride.

Do y'all have to be this reductionistic and binary in thought? I get that one might not want to spend time properly analyzing stuff, but maybe at least be frugal in your speech if you're not going to give the bare minimum effort?

Of course circumstances prevent many elite players from ever even contending for a ring, but like winning a Super Bowl winning a ring particularly as the leading player is not exactly easy to do and still constitutes a significant achievement imo. Again imo it is certainly more meaningful than accumulating regular season individual statistics, unless you want to cancel the play- offs and go on leading team at the end of the regular season as the EPL and other soccer leagues do.

If tings are meaningless it is rather perplexing that LeBron for one has gone to such lengths to chase them.

You’re doing the exact same thing from the opposite side and putting words into my mouth, though. The point isn't that rings are meaningless. It's that they have context to them. What matters is your contribution to winning.

For example, if you're on a terrible team but you did an insane carry job to get them to the first round, it's more valuable than being along for the ride on a loaded team.

You're asking for logic when this is a spe ific reaction to Lebron. There is no rationality here. There is no logical thought.

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[prophet_of_rage]

As for the question...i think each of LeBron's rings has some sort of asterisk to it, 2016 and 2020 being the worst. But this would simply not count in my opinion. He'd still be stuck at 4, less than Kobe, Tim and also of course not close to MJ.

The whole thing is funny. Like, when i claimed Jokic has already passed LBJ then the one argument against it is usually "but...but...ringzz!" At the same time, when holding rings against LBJ, they dont matter, nor does the way they were won. Guys cant make up their minds. There was a phase when they kept telling us rings are all that mattered, because it justified his ring chasing and super team collusion. Also 10-15 years ago i guess they thought its safe to bet on him to win 5 or more. Well too bad, that ship has sailed and they were forced to flip the script once again. Now, suddenly, its not rings, or MVP's or what ever that matters in the GOAT debate but only longevity, even if you dont play any defense for the last five years of your career...

Straight truth

He's never won a ring where he didn't have the most overwhelmingly talented team, even in the middle of his prime.


Nobody played with more talent while possessing more talent than Lebron. OK maybe KD did on the Dubs but he straight up dominated the league and won titles not even breaking a sweat.

Lebrons circumstances means he should have Bill Russell amount of rings if we're being honest here

That's not true. He was the underdog versus the Warriors, Spurs.

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[michaelm]

Of course circumstances prevent many elite players from ever even contending for a ring, but like winning a Super Bowl winning a ring particularly as the leading player is not exactly easy to do and still constitutes a significant achievement imo. Again imo it is certainly more meaningful than accumulating regular season individual statistics, unless you want to cancel the play- offs and go on leading team at the end of the regular season as the EPL and other soccer leagues do.

If tings are meaningless it is rather perplexing that LeBron for one has gone to such lengths to chase them.

You’re doing the exact same thing from the opposite side and putting words into my mouth, though. The point isn't that rings are meaningless. It's that they have context to them. What matters is your contribution to winning.

For example, if you're on a terrible team but you did an insane carry job to get them to the first round, it's more valuable than being along for the ride on a loaded team.

You're asking for logic when this is a spe ific reaction to Lebron. There is no rationality here. There is no logical thought.

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Yes it is only other people who are biased, and this forum is characterised by takes on LeBron’s high quality as a player which are always completely rational and irrational takes on Jordan’s high quality as a player. There is a concurrent thread in regard to rings being meaningless which I rather think was started by someone other than a Jordan partisan.