Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[Chi town]

Send him to the Spurs for their lower first rounder

Too late. Can only S+T him now.

I think he signs a 3yr last yr Team Option deal on a value deal or he plays the QO.

[Jcool0]

17 points on 8 shots tonight.

Game Worst -29

Giddey struggles against athleticism.

4 of the 5 starters had a -20 or worse +/-. Huerter, who you called "the worst rotation player in the league" was a +4.

[PJSteven22]

17 points on 8 shots tonight.

Game Worst -29

Giddey struggles against athleticism.

4 of the 5 starters had a -20 or worse +/-. Huerter, who you called "the worst rotation player in the league" was a +4.

Two things can be true.

[Chi town]

Game Worst -29

Giddey struggles against athleticism.

4 of the 5 starters had a -20 or worse +/-. Huerter, who you called "the worst rotation player in the league" was a +4.

Two things can be true.

At the same time.

Giddey struggles big time against athleticism that plays physical. Rockets and Pistons come to mind. There are very few teams that have that profile though. In the playoffs many teams become that though.

Huerter and Jones both suck. They play much slower than our pace and don’t get up enough 3s.

AK may look like a tank mastermind with how bad they have been.

Billy’s rotations are pure TANK. Literally trying to bring the worst out of everyone. I Hope this doesn’t hurt the progress of Buz.

[Jcool0]

4 of the 5 starters had a -20 or worse +/-. Huerter, who you called "the worst rotation player in the league" was a +4.

Two things can be true.

At the same time.

Giddey struggles big time against athleticism that plays physical. Rockets and Pistons come to mind. There are very few teams that have that profile though. In the playoffs many teams become that though.

Huerter and Jones both suck. They play much slower than our pace and don’t get up enough 3s.

AK may look like a tank mastermind with how bad they have been.

Billy’s rotations are pure TANK. Literally trying to bring the worst out of everyone. I Hope this doesn’t hurt the progress of Buz.

You cant have it both ways.. Giddey gets knocked for being a -29 and Huerter being +4 being dismissed. It's disingenuous to be nuanced with Huerter because your narrative is questioned while still trying to dismiss anything Giddey does. Either +/- means something or context matters. And if context matters it matters for everyone. Not just certain players.

[Chi town]

Two things can be true.

At the same time.

Giddey struggles big time against athleticism that plays physical. Rockets and Pistons come to mind. There are very few teams that have that profile though. In the playoffs many teams become that though.

Huerter and Jones both suck. They play much slower than our pace and don’t get up enough 3s.

AK may look like a tank mastermind with how bad they have been.

Billy’s rotations are pure TANK. Literally trying to bring the worst out of everyone. I Hope this doesn’t hurt the progress of Buz.

You cant have it both ways.. Giddey gets knocked for being a -29 and Huerter being +4 being dismissed. It's disingenuous to be nuanced with Huerter because your narrative is questioned while still trying to dismiss anything Giddey does. Either +/- means something or context matters. And if context matters it matters for everyone. Not just certain players.

I’ve made it clear.

Huerter sucks. His +4 in this game had nothing to do with him.

Giddey is a great passer and rebounder for his position. He struggles against athleticism on both ends. Can’t create much against athletes hence his 8 shots.

Huerter just sucks. All the way around. Any plus lineup is despite him. He is an exceptional tank commander.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Giddey is a good young piece for a rebuild with his skillset. If they get some luck and start putting a winning product on the court, he is likely packaged for a less flawed player. But he is still just 22 years old, so maybe he'll improve as a shooter and defender?

When it comes to a contract, somewhere between $15m-$20m per for 4 years with the 4th year being a team option seems good for both sides Imo.

[Jeffster81]

Whatever the Bulls decide, you know it will be the wrong choice.

[drosestruts]

Giddey still hasn't shown enough, with enough consistency, for me to comfortably lock him in long term. Who was the last player to take the Qualifying Offer on their year 5 deal and then enter Unrestricted Fre Agency in year 6?

Is that still a thing?

It'd be some serious hardball, but would maintain our ability to offer two max contracts in 2026. If Giddey proves worthy of a bigger contract, we'll have the money and he'll be young.

[Adriano]

Giddey still hasn't shown enough, with enough consistency, for me to comfortably lock him in long term. Who was the last player to take the Qualifying Offer on their year 5 deal and then enter Unrestricted Fre Agency in year 6?

Is that still a thing?

It'd be some serious hardball, but would maintain our ability to offer two max contracts in 2026. If Giddey proves worthy of a bigger contract, we'll have the money and he'll be young.

If I'm not mistaken Coby gets the QO with us.

[TheSuzerain]

Giddey still hasn't shown enough, with enough consistency, for me to comfortably lock him in long term. Who was the last player to take the Qualifying Offer on their year 5 deal and then enter Unrestricted Fre Agency in year 6?

Is that still a thing?

It'd be some serious hardball, but would maintain our ability to offer two max contracts in 2026. If Giddey proves worthy of a bigger contract, we'll have the money and he'll be young.

If I'm not mistaken Coby gets the QO with us.

You are mistaken

[Donkedave]

22yo with triple double potential every game. Yeah let’s hate on that.

Massive improvement on def with blocks and steals over the last 2 months.
But…… this board knows best right?
Most of you will be embarrassed is my prediction.

[Adriano]

22yo with triple double potential every game. Yeah let’s hate on that.

Massive improvement on def with blocks and steals over the last 2 months.
But…… this board knows best right?
Most of you will be embarrassed is my prediction.

If we have a superstar on the team, let Giddey walk would be silly. But, right now, our best player is arguably Vucevic. And he is done. You dont start a team with role players (even the elite ones), you start with a star and than you give away good amount of money for players like Giddey. Unless you think he will ever be a star and first option on a contender team, the users of this board will not be embarassed.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Again GIddey is just volatile.

We know exactly what his skillset is. Its just widely inconsistent. He can look in a stretch where its about as basic as it could get with bad defense. Then other games, he looks like a franchise player and a triple double monster.

But I stress again, we cannot overpay him.

The massive thing going for him is he is only 22. He will get better on both ends.

But it doesn't mean we need to lock ourselves into a bad contract for a fiscally stingy franchise.

[League Circles]

Again GIddey is just volatile.

We know exactly what his skillset is. Its just widely inconsistent. He can look in a stretch where its about as basic as it could get with bad defense. Then other games, he looks like a franchise player and a triple double monster.

But I stress again, we cannot overpay him.

The massive thing going for him is he is only 22. He will get better on both ends.

But it doesn't mean we need to lock ourselves into a bad contract for a fiscally stingy franchise.

I don't know why we should assume that a guy with 4 years of experience and very significant athletic limitations will get better on both ends.

[dougthonus]

I don't know why we should assume that a guy with 4 years of experience and very significant athletic limitations will get better on both ends.

A different way to put it is "how much better". Like you can sell me on Giddey getting iteratively better on defense and shooting, but the problem isn't "better", the problem is the amount better he needs to get is very significant, and that's where it becomes less reasonable.

[sco]

I don't know why we should assume that a guy with 4 years of experience and very significant athletic limitations will get better on both ends.

A different way to put it is "how much better". Like you can sell me on Giddey getting iteratively better on defense and shooting, but the problem isn't "better", the problem is the amount better he needs to get is very significant, and that's where it becomes less reasonable.

I don't know why you say he needs to get much better. After watching him in person last night (which admittedly was an anomaly) but defensively he is doing good stuff in terms of looking for steals (I think having Ball on our team lifts everyone's defensive focus) and contesting shots. He's not Dyson Daniels, but honestly, I see little defensive difference between Giddey and PWill.

Offensively, his rebounding numbers are no fluke. Vuc still takes the gimme rebounds. He's one of those guys who has a knack for getting to the right spot, and that's more valuable than folks give him credit for. His (I couldn't quickly extrapolate from the website) but my quick math has him shooting around 39% on 3's this calendar year (20+ games). He doesn't need to become Steph, but if he is takes 5 3's a game and makes them above 36%, that's good enough.

I think it will be interesting to see where he falls out in the offensive pecking order for the rest of the season with Zach gone. I think everybody is struggling with when to be aggresive and when to defer. Also, he is best suited to be our SF next to Matas. I think it will be easier to go find a couple of better guards (than Coby and Ayo) to put out there to bolster our offense. I'd be fine with Ball as one of them...he'll get better as he regains his 3pt touch.

In terms of what deal to give him, I remain on the "let's see how he does for the rest of the season" train. If his upward trajectory continues, I have no problem paying $20M+.

[dougthonus]

I don't know why you say he needs to get much better. After watching him in person last night (which admittedly was an anomaly) but defensively he is doing good stuff in terms of looking for steals (I think having Ball on our team lifts everyone's defensive focus) and contesting shots. He's not Dyson Daniels, but honestly, I see little defensive difference between Giddey and PWill.

Offensively, his rebounding numbers are no fluke. Vuc still takes the gimme rebounds. He's one of those guys who has a knack for getting to the right spot, and that's more valuable than folks give him credit for. His (I couldn't quickly extrapolate from the website) but my quick math has him shooting around 39% on 3's this calendar year (20+ games). He doesn't need to become Steph, but if he is takes 5 3's a game and makes them above 36%, that's good enough.

I think it will be interesting to see where he falls out in the offensive pecking order for the rest of the season with Zach gone. I think everybody is struggling with when to be aggresive and when to defer. Also, he is best suited to be our SF next to Matas. I think it will be easier to go find a couple of better guards (than Coby and Ayo) to put out there to bolster our offense. I'd be fine with Ball as one of them...he'll get better as he regains his 3pt touch.

In terms of what deal to give him, I remain on the "let's see how he does for the rest of the season" train. If his upward trajectory continues, I have no problem paying $20M+.

I still think he's a guy who absolutely destroys you defensively when the game matters and teams hunt him, and I agree his shooting is better, but teams still just completely ignore him. His release speed is slow and the rest of the team often plays 4 on 5 when the ball isn't in his hands, because they just ignore him. If he consistently hits the no one in his zip code threes (which he's been doing over the 20 games you noted) then teams will start paying nominal attention to him, and his percentage / attempts are likely to plummet.

Generally, I also don't view Giddey in a vacuum. At 20M a year, he's probably got to be my 3rd or 4th best player and I need to fit a team around him. I don't think you can easily do that, and given we're starting from zero, I don't want to try to do that. I think he's a floor raiser and a ceiling lowerer, and when your team is about to win 30ish games and be even worse next year, I don't want a guy like that as a key piece going forward unless the terms are highly valuable for me.

I could see that Giddey in a vacuum is maybe worth 20M, but I don't want to be the team that pays him that. If I have him on a value deal, then sure, I don't mind having him, but for me to want to keep him based on how I think he will impact the team in the long run, it has to be on a contract that I think 15 other teams in the league wouldn't mind having (ie, we're in the middle of the pack in our love for Giddey rather than being the team that loves him the most) so that I know there is flexibility to pivot later.

[League Circles]

Giddey is a fine player, just not special enough for the ultra -specific guys you'd have to surround him with in order to really be a great team. IMO, you almost really need him to be on the court with 4 plus defenders who are also all plus jumpshooters. I think Giddey could be a sorta passable defender if he added a lot of strength so he could battle bigger players, cause he'll absolutely never have the quickness to defend guards IMO. But it's concerning that he hasn't done that in 4 years or reworked his child's jump shot.

I could easily see him be a very strong regular season player who gets abused in the playoffs by more targeted game planning and more physical play. He's definitely talented though.

Whether or not we should keep him and how much we should be willing to pay him should be heavily influenced by what kinds of trade offers we get for Coby and Ayo before FA starts. Lonzo too I guess, though I think trading him before his extension even starts is risky from a player/agent relationship perspective.

[dougthonus]

Lonzo too I guess, though I think trading him before his extension even starts is risky from a player/agent relationship perspective.

FWIW, from a reputation perspective, I think you'd just need to get on board with Lonzo in terms of where you'd trade him. Ie, this team is going to be lousy next year, if you find a way to get him to a better situation (whatever that means to him individually), then I think it'd work out fine.

Most teams that would want to trade for him are probably ones I'd guess that Lonzo would view as a better situation. I would guess that it would be teams that are looking to win titles and need reasonable contract guys that can make a playoff impact. I think Lonzo would fit well in that role even if you have to bubble wrap him until the playoffs.