The 'Jokic has no help' narrative sure came and went

[sp6r=underrated]

In their last 10 games...

MPJ: 24.4 points / 7.4 rebounds / 43.1 3P%
Murray: 26 points / 6.7 assists / 3.8 rebounds
CB: 19.5 points / 7.2 rebounds / 3.4 assists

Remember all the RealGMers saying Denver has the worst FO and is absolutely failing Jokic? Remember everyone saying Nuggets are cooked in November?

This supporting cast is terrible for an ATG and Nuggets management performance is about as bad as I've seen since the horror that was KG-Minn

As an aside, in the modern NBA the numbers you listed aren't that impressive for a 10 game stretch. Lots of players now put up numbers like the above for 10games.

I don't think you know what terrible means.

I said terrible "for an ATG." Look at the type of players who are Jokic's peers and see who they played with in their prime and then compare it to what Jokic has now.

KG-Minnesota is the only one that is clearly worse IMO.

I'll just add if you really believe Jokic's supporting cast is strong, then you have to concede the Jokic critics have a point. If you pair "the best player of his generation" with a very strong supporting cast you should end up acheiving more than Denver has.

Both things can't be true: Denver's supporting cast is elite and Jokic is a GOAT level player.

[QPR]

Braun and MPJ both benefit from Jokic"s gravity enormously. Neither are shot creators. Weird thread as it just amplifies Jokic's greatness.

Players who play with Jokic benefit from Jokic's gravity enormously. Weird post.

The premise of the thread is to downplay Jokic by saying he has a stronger team than isgiven credit for, and the examples used are the two players who directly benefit from him more than anyone else. So yes, it's a weird thread.

[Sharkboy242]

This supporting cast is terrible for an ATG and Nuggets management performance is about as bad as I've seen since the horror that was KG-Minn

As an aside, in the modern NBA the numbers you listed aren't that impressive for a 10 game stretch. Lots of players now put up numbers like the above for 10games.

I don't think you know what terrible means.

I said terrible "for an ATG." Look at the type of players who are Jokic's peers and see who they played with in their prime and then compare it to what Jokic has now.

KG-Minnesota is the only one that is clearly worse IMO.

I guess Murray averaging over 25 PPG for a whole playoff run is excluded from this?

[Sharkboy242]

Braun and MPJ both benefit from Jokic"s gravity enormously. Neither are shot creators. Weird thread as it just amplifies Jokic's greatness.

Players who play with Jokic benefit from Jokic's gravity enormously. Weird post.

The premise of the thread is to downplay Jokic by saying he has a stronger team than isgiven credit for, and the examples used are the two players who directly benefit from him more than anyone else. So yes, it's a weird thread.

I'm a huge Jokic fanboy, so no this thread isn't to downplay Jokic. But I am saying he has a stronger team than given credit for, and its stupid to make hyperbolic assessments about a team when the sample sizes are so low (e.g. blow the team up in November).

[Woodsanity]

Same old posters who said Jokic had a lot of help before when all those guys from previous seasons aren't even in the nba anymore cause of how bad they were.

[sp6r=underrated]

I don't think you know what terrible means.

I said terrible "for an ATG." Look at the type of players who are Jokic's peers and see who they played with in their prime and then compare it to what Jokic has now.

KG-Minnesota is the only one that is clearly worse IMO.

I guess Murray averaging over 25 PPG for a whole playoff run is excluded from this?

1. 25 ppg in the modern era is 20 ppg in the past.
2. 20 ppg and so/so defense isn't anything like the number 2 for most ATGs.
3. he missed the playoffs twice during that span. Not being able to suit up is a massive problem.

[sp6r=underrated]

Braun and MPJ both benefit from Jokic"s gravity enormously. Neither are shot creators. Weird thread as it just amplifies Jokic's greatness.

Players who play with Jokic benefit from Jokic's gravity enormously. Weird post.

The premise of the thread is to downplay Jokic by saying he has a stronger team than isgiven credit for, and the examples used are the two players who directly benefit from him more than anyone else. So yes, it's a weird thread.

I'd put it different way, there are 2 claims made about Denver:
1. Jokic is a GOAT level player.
2. Jokic has a great supporting cast.

Both can't be true. Denver has only crossed 55 wins once during this span and only twice made it to WCF (1 title). It has never had a +6 SRS level team over a half decade plus. IF you pair a GOAT with a great supporting cast Denver should play at a much higher level than it does.

I think #2 is false FWIW. But if you think 2 is true you really need to question # 1.

[Sharkboy242]

Same old posters who said Jokic had a lot of help before when all those guys from previous seasons aren't even in the nba anymore cause of how bad they were.

Cant argue with that. How many players on the current 7-8 rotation do you think we'll be saying the same thing about in a few years?

I said terrible "for an ATG." Look at the type of players who are Jokic's peers and see who they played with in their prime and then compare it to what Jokic has now.

KG-Minnesota is the only one that is clearly worse IMO.

I guess Murray averaging over 25 PPG for a whole playoff run is excluded from this?

1. 25 ppg in the modern era is 20 ppg in the past.
2. 20 ppg and so/so defense isn't anything like the number 2 for most ATGs.
3. he missed the playoffs twice during that span. Not being able to suit up is a massive problem.

1. 25 ppg is 25 ppg. Regardless of your point, 25 ppg is probably in the top 90% of playoff performances for that season. No need to downplay what was an amazing run.
2. Agree it might be be great compared to other ATG, but its not nothing.
3. Things happen, people get injured.

[zero rings]

Laker fan has had Luka for 2 games and is already talking a bunch of smack. lol

He was a Mavs fan 12 days ago.

[Optms]

Of course he has help. The issue is its mediocre. Not good enough to win a title anymore. The league has improved.

[nomansland]

A "black hole on defense" being fourth in the league in steals, only behind a few shooting guards.

There's really no point in even engaging with people who say things like that. Just blindly hating a player because he's running the NBA, that's nothing new.

Laker fan has had Luka for 2 games and is already talking a bunch of smack. lol

The troll derailed my thread quickly.

My friend, as an old school Nuggets fan...it's better to stay under the radar. Let people sleep on the Nugs. If they end up being surprisingly good, thump your chest afterward, but if things don't go the way we want, at least nobody can throw it in our faces.

[MavsDirk41]

Jokic fanboys trying to pump up his MVP case and glaze him until their throats give out. Many, many, many such cases.

He doesn't need a case, he's the clear-cut best player in the league, Cope and seethe.

The fanboying is embarrassing

Other than SGA, who has a case against him for MVP? Its clearly a two man race this year. And im not a Jokic fanboy but the guy has been the best player in the nba for the past 4-5 years.

[Sharkboy242]

Of course he has help. The issue is its mediocre. Not good enough to win a title anymore. The league has improved.

At least we'll still be able to beat the Lakers

[EmpireFalls]

Of course he has help. The issue is its mediocre. Not good enough to win a title anymore. The league has improved.

No one in this league who they can’t beat.

[Sharkboy242]

A "black hole on defense" being fourth in the league in steals, only behind a few shooting guards.

There's really no point in even engaging with people who say things like that. Just blindly hating a player because he's running the NBA, that's nothing new.

Laker fan has had Luka for 2 games and is already talking a bunch of smack. lol

The troll derailed my thread quickly.

My friend, as an old school Nuggets fan...it's better to stay under the radar. Let people sleep on the Nugs. If they end up being surprisingly good, thump your chest afterward, but if things don't go the way we want, at least nobody can throw it in our faces.

True, I agree. Delete tis thread!

[Optms]

Of course he has help. The issue is its mediocre. Not good enough to win a title anymore. The league has improved.

No one in this league who they can’t beat.

You say this and yet they can't even beat the top teams this season.

Knicks have a better shot at the Finals.

[QPR]

Players who play with Jokic benefit from Jokic's gravity enormously. Weird post.

The premise of the thread is to downplay Jokic by saying he has a stronger team than isgiven credit for, and the examples used are the two players who directly benefit from him more than anyone else. So yes, it's a weird thread.

I'm a huge Jokic fanboy, so no this thread isn't to downplay Jokic. But I am saying he has a stronger team than given credit for, and its stupid to make hyperbolic assessments about a team when the sample sizes are so low (e.g. blow the team up in November).

That's fair. Apologies, my post could have been a little less hostile

[Special_Puppy]

Of course he has help. The issue is its mediocre. Not good enough to win a title anymore. The league has improved.

No one in this league who they can’t beat.

I would be surprised if the Nuggets beat the Thunder+Celtics+Cavs in a 7 Game Series

[Special_Puppy]

If you had to rank every supporting cast in the league I'm not sure the Nuggets crack the top 10

[TheGeneral99]

I'd also like to see Murray on a team without Jokic and see if he can replicate these numbers.