FIRE WELTMAN

[Bensational]

This has been a quality thread of discussion. Last few pages were a great read.

[anothermagicfan]

This has been a quality thread of discussion. Last few pages were a great read.

I agree. Great thread right now. Only thing is firing anyone in the organization is out of our control. As is drafting players, trading players and signing players. Oh what to do now???

[MasterGMer]

I think Jeff Weltman is holding our assets for a reason and even maybe for a big move. But he doesn't want to do it this trade deadline. He doesn't even want to send out 1 FRP to get a guy like Simmons. He thinks it is a bandaid not a fix. Again, everyone knows this Magic team is built for contention eventually thus our rebuild.

And I think Jeff clearly knows the fate of this rebuild depends on Franz, Paolo and Suggs. This season just had been unfortunate because of injuries. But the 7 game series Cleveland Cavaliers is NO.1 in the league by record now in a flip of offseason with a coaching change. That actually is a positive sign for us. Why? Because we almost beat them. I do understand the frustration. And I was disappointed also. But being patient isn't such a bad thing either.

Clearly we are holding our assets. And I hope it is realized this upcoming summer. A big summer and pivotal summer. We can judge and decide to part ways with Jeff later

[Bensational]

We prefer Wizards approach.
Drafted well ( Wall and Beal) than made sure they never actually go anywhere with spineless, cosmetic mini moves and investing in "development" of world beaters like Kelly Oubre and Otto Porter because "organic" > winning.

If you run enough "organic" years things will fall in place, your two stars will cap out your team and you will no longer be pressured to make any teams as you run out of money.

#Blueprint.

You were bullish on the Hornets at the start of this season. What did you like about their rebuild and what are your thoughts on how things are currently going over there?

[Idiosyncratic]

This has been a quality thread of discussion. Last few pages were a great read.

I agree. Great thread right now. Only thing is firing anyone in the organization is out of our control. As is drafting players, trading players and signing players. Oh what to do now???

LOL!

[YosemiteSam]

This has been a quality thread of discussion. Last few pages were a great read.

I agree. Great thread right now. Only thing is firing anyone in the organization is out of our control. As is drafting players, trading players and signing players. Oh what to do now???

Wait, this is "RealGM". I thought it meant we actually could make the teams do things. You mean we aren't really real GMs?

[ogmagicfan]

Not sure I’m reading this right, are people using Cleveland as an example to support their argument that Jeff is doing the right thing by standing pat? Cleveland sent Sexton, Markkanen and three firsts to Utah to land Donovan Mitchell, the move that shot them up to top 4 in the East. Markkanen and Sexton were both better than AB, who is apparently untouchable in the eyes of some posters, and Mobley and Garland were both as young or younger than our core (but the timeline!) Do you think the Cavs care about the picks if they’re leading the East? You have to give something to get something.

I agree...much better parallel than OKC (who STARTED their rebuild with a guy who is better than Mitchell).

add the next chapter...best record in the East and they STILL make a big trade for Deandre Hunter because you're never good enough!! He's another good defender to throw at the Celtics...and, if they get by him, meet Mobley and Allen.

We prefer Wizards approach.
Drafted well ( Wall and Beal) than made sure they never actually go anywhere with spineless, cosmetic mini moves and investing in "development" of world beaters like Kelly Oubre and Otto Porter because "organic" > winning.

If you run enough "organic" years things will fall in place, your two stars will cap out your team and you will no longer be pressured to make any teams as you run out of money.

#Blueprint.

Pretty much what we're doing, except the Wizards traded their 1st rounders every season for a temporary addition on the team as if that player would get them over the hump.

I'll never forget them trading for Bojan, and he went off scoring immediately when joining the team, but once the playoffs came around he couldnt hit the rim

Ernie Grunfeld will pay for his crimes.

An inactive GM is the worst thing, because not only does it inspire lack of confidence in the star players that help will come, it lets potential players who could join the team know that this isnt a well run organization.

The Wizards were front runners for getting Al Horford, right when Wall & Beal were entering their prime. He chose the Celtics just narrowly.

KD grew up right outside DC, and was a FA. I genuinely believe he wouldve considered the Wizards if they had competent FO leadership, but Grunfeld being the WORST GM in the NBA sealed any deal of that. A Wall/Beal/KD big 3 wins a chip.

Anyways, back to the main point, being inactive and leaning on "organic" growth is the best way to uninspire both your own players and potential players who could join

[pepe1991]

To answer all the questions & reply at once:

Wizards .
They traded 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 pick.
Kept 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2018, 2019 etc.

But reality of those traded picks is:
2014 pick for Gortat - pick landed 18- turned into Tyler Ennis , Ennis flamed out of a league in 3 years. Wizards actually won that.
2015- it was pick swap. Hawks drafted Oubre(15), Wizards drafted Jerian Grant. Wizards gave up 2 second round picks to get Oubre. Jerian Grant isn't Jeremy Grant but that bum that played for us. Wizards were massive winner in that one.

2016- got Markeef Morris for 2016 pick. Pick landed in lottery... Again, sounding much worst than it was, pick turned into Papagiannis. Guy was out of a league before 2019. It's hard to say who won, you can argue everybody drafting between 7-27 lost in that draft lost, including us, who lost in very creative way . Let's call it even.

2017- already mentioned Bogdanovic trade. They won 49 games, lose in game 7 to Celtics in second round, pick falls to 22#, but Marks lands Allen. Would they draft Allen? Probably not due fact they had 5 centers already.

I agree on Ernie Grunfeld hate and his inability to ever build anything. And sure, they were close to Horford, Durant, but i still can't figure thought process behind mega max Beal got.
If anything, Beal's contract proved that mega max for not top 3 player is instant suicide especially on small market.


Hornets /Ben.
Yea, i thought they will be better.

Some stuff around them is near unreal.
Brandon Miller- got hurt during very first nba game this year. Returned. Broke wrist. Season ending surgery.
Tre Mann - on start of breakout year breaks his back- required surgery- done for a year.
Grant Williams- tears ACL - done for a year
Mark Williams- plays just 23 games (after only playing 19 games year prior, and 43 game prior ), gets traded, fails medical -now is back with Hornets but he *probably* can't play any time soon. Or ever, if his back problems are that massive.
Josh Okogie- after 7 games, two weeks ago he fell, grabbed his hamstring and was carried out. Re -evaluation in 3 weeks. Possibility of being done for a year.

Lamelo- two ankle injuries in same season, but compared to others he actually "only " missed 19 games

Prior Williams failed trade i thought they are just pulling players out for tanking purpose, i have no clue what to think now.
I still didn't like how they played when they had Miller & Lamelo, they were selfish and shot-hunting.
Now they start Payton and Nurkić, tanking will come naturally

[I Rasharted]

fire weltman or not, short of a superstar landing in our lap via the draft feels like we'll be saying the same things 5 years from now.

[basketballRob]

I think Jeff Weltman is holding our assets for a reason and even maybe for a big move. But he doesn't want to do it this trade deadline. He doesn't even want to send out 1 FRP to get a guy like Simmons. He thinks it is a bandaid not a fix. Again, everyone knows this Magic team is built for contention eventually thus our rebuild.

And I think Jeff clearly knows the fate of this rebuild depends on Franz, Paolo and Suggs. This season just had been unfortunate because of injuries. But the 7 game series Cleveland Cavaliers is NO.1 in the league by record now in a flip of offseason with a coaching change. That actually is a positive sign for us. Why? Because we almost beat them. I do understand the frustration. And I was disappointed also. But being patient isn't such a bad thing either.

Clearly we are holding our assets. And I hope it is realized this upcoming summer. A big summer and pivotal summer. We can judge and decide to part ways with Jeff later

It's hard to make trades when half the team is on rookie contracts and Wendell isn't eligible to be traded.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[three3d]

I think Jeff Weltman is holding our assets for a reason and even maybe for a big move. But he doesn't want to do it this trade deadline. He doesn't even want to send out 1 FRP to get a guy like Simmons. He thinks it is a bandaid not a fix. Again, everyone knows this Magic team is built for contention eventually thus our rebuild.

And I think Jeff clearly knows the fate of this rebuild depends on Franz, Paolo and Suggs. This season just had been unfortunate because of injuries. But the 7 game series Cleveland Cavaliers is NO.1 in the league by record now in a flip of offseason with a coaching change. That actually is a positive sign for us. Why? Because we almost beat them. I do understand the frustration. And I was disappointed also. But being patient isn't such a bad thing either.

Clearly we are holding our assets. And I hope it is realized this upcoming summer. A big summer and pivotal summer. We can judge and decide to part ways with Jeff later

It's hard to make trades when half the team is on rookie contracts and Wendell isn't eligible to be traded.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Wendell might be attractive to Portland this summer. It gets them off the last year of Ayton’s contract which is at $35.5M and they don’t have to worry about resigning Ayton or losing him for nothing. Getting rid of Ayton opens the door for the Donovan Clingan area to officially begin.

Simons and Ayton coming to Orlando actually clears the way for Portland’s youth movement.

[Skybox]

I think Jeff Weltman is holding our assets for a reason and even maybe for a big move. But he doesn't want to do it this trade deadline. He doesn't even want to send out 1 FRP to get a guy like Simmons. He thinks it is a bandaid not a fix. Again, everyone knows this Magic team is built for contention eventually thus our rebuild.

And I think Jeff clearly knows the fate of this rebuild depends on Franz, Paolo and Suggs. This season just had been unfortunate because of injuries. But the 7 game series Cleveland Cavaliers is NO.1 in the league by record now in a flip of offseason with a coaching change. That actually is a positive sign for us. Why? Because we almost beat them. I do understand the frustration. And I was disappointed also. But being patient isn't such a bad thing either.

Clearly we are holding our assets. And I hope it is realized this upcoming summer. A big summer and pivotal summer. We can judge and decide to part ways with Jeff later

It's hard to make trades when half the team is on rookie contracts and Wendell isn't eligible to be traded.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Wendell might be attractive to Portland this summer. It gets them off the last year of Ayton’s contract which is at $35.5M and they don’t have to worry about resigning Ayton or losing him for nothing. Getting rid of Ayton opens the door for the Donovan Clingan area to officially begin.

Simons and Ayton coming to Orlando actually clears the way for Portland’s youth movement.

I'd do something like that even with no confidence that Ayton learns to play defense...one year expiring. I'd be happy to get that kind of money off of the payroll, add Simons AND be ready for the next step the following summer or TD (with Ayton's expiring to play with).

and...what if Ayton actually bought in - he is a physical marvel with real basketball skill. If Mosely could get him on board with team play and a realistic idea of where he fits in the hierarchy - he could be great. I don't want to defend or argue that because I don't expect it...point is that the worst scenario is still pretty good and best scenario (Ayton delivers) is insanely good.

Having said that, POR is well aware that he's expiring too...so, they'll have no reason to dump him for very little.

[three3d]

It's hard to make trades when half the team is on rookie contracts and Wendell isn't eligible to be traded.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Wendell might be attractive to Portland this summer. It gets them off the last year of Ayton’s contract which is at $35.5M and they don’t have to worry about resigning Ayton or losing him for nothing. Getting rid of Ayton opens the door for the Donovan Clingan area to officially begin.

Simons and Ayton coming to Orlando actually clears the way for Portland’s youth movement.

I'd do something like that even with no confidence that Ayton learns to play defense...one year expiring. I'd be happy to get that kind of money off of the payroll, add Simons AND be ready for the next step the following summer or TD (with Ayton's expiring to play with).

and...what if Ayton actually bought in - he is a physical marvel with real basketball skill. If Mosely could get him on board with team play and a realistic idea of where he fits in the hierarchy - he could be great. I don't want to defend or argue that because I don't expect it...point is that the worst scenario is still pretty good and best scenario (Ayton delivers) is insanely good.

Having said that, POR is well aware that he's expiring too...so, they'll have no reason to dump him for very little.

I’m not nearly as creative as you Sky to figure out how to bring the Lakers into this deal and have them take Ayton and Knecht come to Orlando with Simons. I’d imagine we’d be sending KCP out. I wonder if LA would be interested in adding Ayton and KCP

[Skybox]

Wendell might be attractive to Portland this summer. It gets them off the last year of Ayton’s contract which is at $35.5M and they don’t have to worry about resigning Ayton or losing him for nothing. Getting rid of Ayton opens the door for the Donovan Clingan area to officially begin.

Simons and Ayton coming to Orlando actually clears the way for Portland’s youth movement.

I'd do something like that even with no confidence that Ayton learns to play defense...one year expiring. I'd be happy to get that kind of money off of the payroll, add Simons AND be ready for the next step the following summer or TD (with Ayton's expiring to play with).

and...what if Ayton actually bought in - he is a physical marvel with real basketball skill. If Mosely could get him on board with team play and a realistic idea of where he fits in the hierarchy - he could be great. I don't want to defend or argue that because I don't expect it...point is that the worst scenario is still pretty good and best scenario (Ayton delivers) is insanely good.

Having said that, POR is well aware that he's expiring too...so, they'll have no reason to dump him for very little.

I’m not nearly as creative as you Sky to figure out how to bring the Lakers into this deal and have them take Ayton and Knecht come to Orlando with Simons. I’d imagine we’d be sending KCP out. I wonder if LA would be interested in adding Ayton and KCP

Ayton's definitely a lob threat...and they're saying that's really what Luka needs to live his best life. Alex Len will hold it down for now, but he's not really their answer...Maybe Reaves ends up here?

IF WCJ and KCP start hitting their shots for the next couple of months, they'll have some trade appeal...on the other hand, everyone will whine to keep them and forget the last lengthy drought.

[pepe1991]

I'd do something like that even with no confidence that Ayton learns to play defense...one year expiring. I'd be happy to get that kind of money off of the payroll, add Simons AND be ready for the next step the following summer or TD (with Ayton's expiring to play with).

and...what if Ayton actually bought in - he is a physical marvel with real basketball skill. If Mosely could get him on board with team play and a realistic idea of where he fits in the hierarchy - he could be great. I don't want to defend or argue that because I don't expect it...point is that the worst scenario is still pretty good and best scenario (Ayton delivers) is insanely good.

Having said that, POR is well aware that he's expiring too...so, they'll have no reason to dump him for very little.

I’m not nearly as creative as you Sky to figure out how to bring the Lakers into this deal and have them take Ayton and Knecht come to Orlando with Simons. I’d imagine we’d be sending KCP out. I wonder if LA would be interested in adding Ayton and KCP

Ayton's definitely a lob threat...and they're saying that's really what Luka needs to live his best life. Alex Len will hold it down for now, but he's not really their answer...Maybe Reaves ends up here?

IF WCJ and KCP start hitting their shots for the next couple of months, they'll have some trade appeal...on the other hand, everyone will whine to keep them and forget the last lengthy drought.

Bringing Ayton and assuming he will have same, if not bigger deal is insanity.
That guy is mid at best.
He is young-ish and talented enough where you lie to yourself, justifying his contract but also not good enough to actually help you win games or compete for a title.
His salary is so bloated for a guy who isn't really any better than Zubac/ Gafford.

On top of that Blazers already have undersized C who is injury prone in Rob Will.

[Message Boar]

Don't have the energy to type anything long-winded, but check my sig. Made it right after the trade deadline.

[Cammo101]

I think Jeff Weltman is holding our assets for a reason and even maybe for a big move. But he doesn't want to do it this trade deadline. He doesn't even want to send out 1 FRP to get a guy like Simmons. He thinks it is a bandaid not a fix. Again, everyone knows this Magic team is built for contention eventually thus our rebuild.

And I think Jeff clearly knows the fate of this rebuild depends on Franz, Paolo and Suggs. This season just had been unfortunate because of injuries. But the 7 game series Cleveland Cavaliers is NO.1 in the league by record now in a flip of offseason with a coaching change. That actually is a positive sign for us. Why? Because we almost beat them. I do understand the frustration. And I was disappointed also. But being patient isn't such a bad thing either.

Clearly we are holding our assets. And I hope it is realized this upcoming summer. A big summer and pivotal summer. We can judge and decide to part ways with Jeff later

The bolded place is where I think you are wrong and where people fundamentally do not get it. The fate of this rebuild is on what happens now and it doesn't have to do with what Franz, Paolo, and Suggs do. It has to do with what this franchise does around them. That core will grow or regress based on what is around them, not based on themselves in some vacuum. This is the fundamental issue here.

Continue to surround those guys by a bunch of young players and scrubs, and that core 3 will not hit their potential and ultimately break up for greener pasteurs. You know the expression "Quarterbacks don't bust teams, teams bust quarterbacks"? The same concept applies here. What this core becomes and where they become it is based on what this franchise puts around them in the next few seasons.

[three3d]

I’m not nearly as creative as you Sky to figure out how to bring the Lakers into this deal and have them take Ayton and Knecht come to Orlando with Simons. I’d imagine we’d be sending KCP out. I wonder if LA would be interested in adding Ayton and KCP

Ayton's definitely a lob threat...and they're saying that's really what Luka needs to live his best life. Alex Len will hold it down for now, but he's not really their answer...Maybe Reaves ends up here?

IF WCJ and KCP start hitting their shots for the next couple of months, they'll have some trade appeal...on the other hand, everyone will whine to keep them and forget the last lengthy drought.

Bringing Ayton and assuming he will have same, if not bigger deal is insanity.
That guy is mid at best.
He is young-ish and talented enough where you lie to yourself, justifying his contract but also not good enough to actually help you win games or compete for a title.
His salary is so bloated for a guy who isn't really any better than Zubac/ Gafford.

On top of that Blazers already have undersized C who is injury prone in Rob Will.

Ayton’s only value to us would be the $35M expiring on his contract. I can’t see a situation where Portland would resign Ayton with Clingan there.

[SloNick Russia]

How WCJ will attract anybody after his extension, he was a great value at 10M per, he is below average at 20M per now. Maybe in a long run when salaries go up and back up C will be making 20M all over the place.
On another hand I believe we did well with KCP, dude is 31 and got him on cap space alone is a year with limited options. He sure has more value going forward then Klay for example.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

[CocoaFan]

I get so sick of hearing Weltman's not skipping steps and continuity philosophies when in fact he is skipping steps. It's flawed and just freaking lazy. In the modern NBA if you're not improving every year on the margins you're going backwards. By letting players like WCJ, Isaac, Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, and others in the past get to negative trade values is weakening the team and has set us up where we can't make a needle moving trade without giving up one of our core players. Add to that that Weltman won't make a trade unless it's an obvious win so there's little way to improve even if overpaying a little gives us a better fitting player. If we can't make significant improvement this summer this guy has got to go.