2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Does anyone else think this is really cool? And could help coaches study in-game mistakes/lapses as well as possibly improving challenges/ reviews and out-of-timeout strategy on the sidelines if implemented further?

I'd rather just get a shelf stable fullHD or 1440p feed in the regular NBA app first. Most of the time I'm happy just to get a mid-bandwidth 720p stream that doesn't zonk out after rewinding back more than 10min

[SunsRback4Good]

Read on Twitter

Does anyone else think this is really cool? And could help coaches study in-game mistakes/lapses as well as possibly improving challenges/ reviews and out-of-timeout strategy on the sidelines if implemented further?

I'd rather just get a shelf stable fullHD or 1440p feed in the regular NBA app first. Most of the time I'm happy just to get a mid-bandwidth 720p stream that doesn't zonk out after rewinding back more than 10min

You’re a legend in my eyes please never change Lilfishi.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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So yeah! The Suns front office never approached Brad about a trade nor did they have any conversations? And then they explore trading KD without even telling him about it. Neither are good looks for a front office when it comes to players and free agency. We actually might have quite a hard time attracting players with this kind of reputation regardless of Ishbias' willingness to spend money.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Here comes the beginning of the overseas expansion agenda I've mentioned previously. Could be kind of cool to see what teams might come from this. I honestly hope that a Manchester United team would exemplify one of my favorite movie premises:

Watch on YouTube

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

So yeah! The Suns front office never approached Brad about a trade nor did they have any conversations? And then they explore trading KD without even telling him about it. Neither are good looks for a front office when it comes to players and free agency. We actually might have quite a hard time attracting players with this kind of reputation regardless of Ishbias' willingness to spend money.

Yeah, but they explored potential trades for Beal, but if there were none they liked, then there wasn't a point going to him. i think it was who, Atlanta and Washington that had interest? But I imagine they wanted to be compensated for taking the contract, and we are not in a position to be giving away more picks.

[Revived]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

[Mr Puddles]

Read on Twitter

Does anyone else think this is really cool? And could help coaches study in-game mistakes/lapses as well as possibly improving challenges/ reviews and out-of-timeout strategy on the sidelines if implemented further?

I'd rather just get a shelf stable fullHD or 1440p feed in the regular NBA app first. Most of the time I'm happy just to get a mid-bandwidth 720p stream that doesn't zonk out after rewinding back more than 10min

You’re a legend in my eyes please never change Lilfishi.

I watch the old black and white tv if I want to get fancy, but usually I either just listen to the game on the radio or recieve game related information send to me via mail pigeon, which I read to myself in Al McCoy's voice.

[Puff]

KD might as well have a NTC, because if he won't extend to his next destination, they will not trade for him.

I hope you guys are correct and that we get a great haul, if we do trade him. I still think that is in question. Not that we shouldn't but will Ishbia trade his pride and joy?

However, we have been fleeced so many times recently, I have no faith that we will get the haul that has been suggested.

I

[sunskerr]

One of the things that was hidden in the Butler/KD scenario that sort of occurred to me was that the drop off from KD to Butler might not be as big as we thought.

I watched some of Jimmy with the Warriors and boy he looks maybe 5 years younger than he actually is. Reverse dunking lobs and getting to the line, racing down the court for fast breaks and cherry picking.

So this kind of surprised me because of all the dialogue around him being over the hill (but not that much lol). Then I went and looked at his impact metrics and they're all (iirc) more or less in the same ball park as KD overall. Less on offense more on defense.

I think we may have tried to sleight of hand the Warriors, getting a high, perhaps similar impact guy to KD, whilst grabbing assets like picks and/or prospects.

The net result being of course a long term win for us, with only a neutral or slightly negative short term impact.

Anyway, good attempt by our FO to be a trade winner for once. And of course goes without saying we'll see if that observation about Butler holds true. I guess it will as long as he stays healthy.

[Frank Lee]

I’d look to trade Allen and O’Neal before gutting this team completely. Once KD goes, there is no sense to build around Book. Furthermore, regardless of the giddiness over draft picks, they are more likely to be trade chips with this front office. Any doubts?

[lilfishi22]

I'd rather just get a shelf stable fullHD or 1440p feed in the regular NBA app first. Most of the time I'm happy just to get a mid-bandwidth 720p stream that doesn't zonk out after rewinding back more than 10min

You’re a legend in my eyes please never change Lilfishi.

I watch the old black and white tv if I want to get fancy, but usually I either just listen to the game on the radio or recieve game related information send to me via mail pigeon, which I read to myself in Al McCoy's voice.

Probably more reliable than my feed

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

So yeah! The Suns front office never approached Brad about a trade nor did they have any conversations? And then they explore trading KD without even telling him about it. Neither are good looks for a front office when it comes to players and free agency. We actually might have quite a hard time attracting players with this kind of reputation regardless of Ishbias' willingness to spend money.

Yeah, but they explored potential trades for Beal, but if there were none they liked, then there wasn't a point going to him. i think it was who, Atlanta and Washington that had interest? But I imagine they wanted to be compensated for taking the contract, and we are not in a position to be giving away more picks.

Don't think you're wrong but I just wonder what the dynamics were especially when considering how hard we went at Jimmy. Like, I get the idea that there's no point of going to Beal if we never got to a place where a high level framework was agreed upon in a 3/4 way trade but to get to a high level understanding with other teams and then realising that Brad doesn't want to go to a Charlotte or Chicago or something, then all that hard work would be down the drain.

If for example, we found a deal to get Jimmy, Beal would be rerouted to a 3rd team and Miami gets fillers plus our draft picks, how annoyed would you be if you were Riley realising we did all this and we hadn't even talked to the guy who could veto the whole thing yet. Whatever goodwill we may have had with some GM's might also take a hit because it would seem like we didn't do our due diligence on our own guys first,

If I was to approach it, I would go to Brad first and foremost. Be upfront and explain thinking and approach, find out where he's open to going and try to work around that. There's no point getting 90% to a potential deal and then find out Beal has no plans to go back to Washington or something.

[bwgood77]

While I did not like the trade for KD, the thing that sunk this team were the ones for Beal and Nurkic.

How much better would we be with Ayton at the 5 and someone else other than Beal? That could have been either CP3 or anyone else except for Tyus Jones or Bradley Beal.

Whowould you prefer as our Center? Ayton, Nurkic, Richards or Plumlee

Our new owner has basically destroyed both the Center and point guard positions while not shoring up what still remains a weakness, the 4 and 3. That is when KD is not on the floor.

I doubt any coach could succeed with this roster. It is basically 2 against 5 and I am not a fan of Bud.

The KD trade may not have really sunk our team yet, but the whole reasoning was to go all in for the next 1-2 years at the time. But we didn't make it any further than the year before, going out in 6 in round 2 (went out in 7 the year before after winning 64 games). And we gave up two young very solid players who could be good for another 10 years in Bridges and Cam, as you can see they are still highly valued. Then Crowder as well, who we could have traded for Grayson Allen earlier (that deal was offered). So talent wise, just looking at the KD trade, we didn't get better. We stayed about the same, but we got much older, much thinner with depth, and traded an iron man for a guy who misses quite a bit of time and is older.

Now KD is awesome. But also, had we kept Bridges, Cam, traded Crowder for someone else, we also would have had our 23 draft pick. Imagine another player like Dunn or a young guy on a rookie contract now in his 3rd year to add to the depth. Maybe get our post Paul PG there. Then you have our pick this year (which Houston has, and currently will be a lottery pick). Then the 27 and 29 picks. I don't think you can judge that trade right after. How good would be this year and next year with Bridges, Cam, who we got for Jae, our 23 pick, etc. And then we'd add another rookie contract this year. We could have kept adding cheap young talent around Booker/Bridges/Cam/Ayton (or another C).

Then of course we gave up the 27 and 29 unprotected, and an unprotected 28 swap. The impact of that trade is far from over.

I hope we can recoup at least a decent percentage of that value. What a waste and a boring team to watch.

[Mr Puddles]

You’re a legend in my eyes please never change Lilfishi.

I watch the old black and white tv if I want to get fancy, but usually I either just listen to the game on the radio or recieve game related information send to me via mail pigeon, which I read to myself in Al McCoy's voice.

Probably more reliable than my feed

My cat Mittens provides color commentary and game analysis which is definitely a vast improvement over Ann Meyers and Kendrick Perkins.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

Heat Receive: Kevin Durant

Suns Receive: Andrew Wiggins, Haywood Highsmith, Jamie Jaquez, 2029 First-Round Pick (MIA), 2030 First-Round Pick (MIA)

My thoughts are that aside from the two future 1sts, the package is garbage and underwhelming at best. IF we're only prioritizing picks, then I guess the package is almost OK. But Wiggins has multi-year money that doesn't really help us from an apron reduction standpoint. The player value included isn't that close either honestly. I for my part wouldn't even entertain the trade without the inclusion of Ware and Jovic. The picks are very solid too, far out for me to care that much about too. And honestly, if we're prioritizing draft picks solely over players, then we'd still have better options than even those two far-out Miami 1sts.

I'd negotiate/accept either of these two packages, but nothing less:

1- Package A:
KD for Rozier/ Robinson/ Ware/ Jovic. No picks. (Ware and Jovic represent the pick exchange value).

2- Package B:
Wiggins/ Robinson/ Jovic/ Larson/ GS 25' 1st/ MIA 29' 1st. ** No Ware inclusion along with taking back Wiggin's multi-year contract would require additional value added, meaning the GS 25' 1st currently ( 13th pick/ late lottery) this additional value would replace Ware not being included in the trade. It'd become important as it'd allow us to somewhat jumpstart our soft rebuild around Booker as soon as this summer. But any KD trade to the Heat that has them not including any of Herro, Bam, or Ware would require the additional value of at minimum the inclusion of Jovic AND the GS 25' 1st and maybe the throw-in of either Pelle Larson or Keshad Johnson.

The biggest thing for me honestly would be Ware! I could honestly care less about Wiggins or Robinson or Rozier. IF they were willing to just put Ware as the centerpiece in the trade, then they could keep their picks, and Jovic and I'd just take Wiggins/ Rozier (44 million in expirings), and Ware and call it a day. But if they wouldn't give up either Ware or the GS 25' 1st and 29' 1st, then I'd spurn them by sending KD to Golden State for Green (the reason he doesn't want to go back there)/ Kuminga (resigned at 20 million)/ TJD/ Podziemski/ GS 29' 1st. I'd also do it to somewhat screw over the flakers plans of winning a championship with Luka by helping turn the Warriors into a superteam that could stop them in the playoffs. Maybe also look to trade Green to another team for young players/ draft picks? could be Memphis or Dallas or Detroit perhaps? maybe even to Houston for Landale/Whitmore/ PHX 27' 1st?

[garrick]

I’d look to trade Allen and O’Neal before gutting this team completely. Once KD goes, there is no sense to build around Book. Furthermore, regardless of the giddiness over draft picks, they are more likely to be trade chips with this front office. Any doubts?

I don't think any team really values either player though especially Royce who is really just another Jae Crowder so we may just get garbage back for him in a potential trade, for Grayson he should be a lot more valuable as a good 3 point shooter but again given his age don't expect a lot for him.

Our priorities should be to add more size and athleticism & players that can create their own shots because one of the hallmarks of JJ's tenure is we keep getting these players that can't create for themselves.

We need a Kelly Oubre slasher type of player who can just slash and score around the rim because we haven't really had that kind of player for a while and if we keep Book then we especially need this even more so given Book's struggles to score at the rim.

[Revived]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

Heat Receive: Kevin Durant

Suns Receive: Andrew Wiggins, Haywood Highsmith, Jamie Jaquez, 2029 First-Round Pick (MIA), 2030 First-Round Pick (MIA)

My thoughts are that aside from the two future 1sts, the package is garbage and underwhelming at best. IF we're only prioritizing picks, then I guess the package is almost OK. But Wiggins has multi-year money that doesn't really help us from an apron reduction standpoint. The player value included isn't that close either honestly. I for my part wouldn't even entertain the trade without the inclusion of Ware and Jovic. The picks are very solid too, far out for me to care that much about too. And honestly, if we're prioritizing draft picks solely over players, then we'd still have better options than even those two far-out Miami 1sts.

I'd negotiate/accept either of these two packages, but nothing less:

1- Package A:
KD for Rozier/ Robinson/ Ware/ Jovic. No picks. (Ware and Jovic represent the pick exchange value).

2- Package B:
Wiggins/ Robinson/ Jovic/ Larson/ GS 25' 1st/ MIA 29' 1st. ** No Ware inclusion along with taking back Wiggin's multi-year contract would require additional value added, meaning the GS 25' 1st currently ( 13th pick/ late lottery) this additional value would replace Ware not being included in the trade. It'd become important as it'd allow us to somewhat jumpstart our soft rebuild around Booker as soon as this summer. But any KD trade to the Heat that has them not including any of Herro, Bam, or Ware would require the additional value of at minimum the inclusion of Jovic AND the GS 25' 1st and maybe the throw-in of either Pelle Larson or Keshad Johnson.

The biggest thing for me honestly would be Ware! I could honestly care less about Wiggins or Robinson or Rozier. IF they were willing to just put Ware as the centerpiece in the trade, then they could keep their picks, and Jovic and I'd just take Wiggins/ Rozier (44 million in expirings), and Ware and call it a day. But if they wouldn't give up either Ware or the GS 25' 1st and 29' 1st, then I'd spurn them by sending KD to Golden State for Green (the reason he doesn't want to go back there)/ Kuminga (resigned at 20 million)/ TJD/ Podziemski/ GS 29' 1st. I'd also do it to somewhat screw over the flakers plans of winning a championship with Luka by helping turn the Warriors into a superteam that could stop them in the playoffs. Maybe also look to trade Green to another team for young players/ draft picks? could be Memphis or Dallas or Detroit perhaps? maybe even to Houston for Landale/Whitmore/ PHX 27' 1st?

I would love that but I don’t think Miami will trade Ware. They value him extremely highly. And they don’t have a GM like Nico Harrison to trade a young rising talent for an injury prone star in his 30s.

Jovic is probably do-able though.

[thamadkant]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

Add first round pick in 2026 and its OK.... but maybe a 3 way... Wiggins to a 3rd team, for more picks.

[Mr Puddles]

I'll probably get hate for this, but I'd love to bring in Benjamin Simmons if he's willing to sign here on a vet min.

What he does well, our team misses in terms of defense, play making, rebounding. What he lacks in terms of shooting, we already have plenty off.

We might be able to convince him to come over if we offer him a starting spot like we did with Tyus. The Clippers are unlikely to be willing to do that due to having Harden and Powell in the back court.

[Saberestar]

One of the things that was hidden in the Butler/KD scenario that sort of occurred to me was that the drop off from KD to Butler might not be as big as we thought.

I watched some of Jimmy with the Warriors and boy he looks maybe 5 years younger than he actually is. Reverse dunking lobs and getting to the line, racing down the court for fast breaks and cherry picking.

So this kind of surprised me because of all the dialogue around him being over the hill (but not that much lol). Then I went and looked at his impact metrics and they're all (iirc) more or less in the same ball park as KD overall. Less on offense more on defense.

I think we may have tried to sleight of hand the Warriors, getting a high, perhaps similar impact guy to KD, whilst grabbing assets like picks and/or prospects.

The net result being of course a long term win for us, with only a neutral or slightly negative short term impact.

Anyway, good attempt by our FO to be a trade winner for once. And of course goes without saying we'll see if that observation about Butler holds true. I guess it will as long as he stays healthy.

Butler is a terrific player yet and he was just waiting to be traded to play at his usual level.

Like I said several times the difference in age between Beal and him doesn't matter at all because Butler is in crazy good shape and he is gonna be very good for a couple more years.

It was a long shot because no one wants Beal, Wizards and Hawks were the only teams in the league accepting him in a trade but he wouldn't like to get there or the asking price for taking him was tremendously high.

KD for Butler, Kuminga, FRPs and swaps was good value and a fair deal for both sides IMO.