How tainted would any future LeBron rings be with Luka as the main man?

[Dennis 37]

I don't think anyone judges LeBron as the GOAT due to amount of rings, at least I don't. Amount of rings says nothing about a player's greatness. LeBron is judged off what he did 03-20 not what he's doing right now.

You can say amount of rings doesn't say everything about a players greatness but to see it doesn't mean anything is just flat out wrong sorry.

Steve Nash was great, and respected by all, and had zero rings.

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Even if LeBron won a ring as the second option, at 40+ years old that’s insane. It would help his resume not hurt it. And there’s no guarantee that Luka would win FMVP in this hypothetical scenario. This isn’t the NHL where they award a playoff MVP, it’s just finals MVP. LeBron could easily be the Lakers most valuable player for one series.

I don’t think they have it in them this year. They need to add some bigs in the off-season. But the Luka trade wedged open the LeBron title window which many thought was closed for good. Obviously it’s still unlikely that he wins another, but there is absolutely a chance if Lakers management can make some smart offseason moves.

[Dennis 37]

LeBron isn't tainted by not winning rings as the number 1. He is tainted by always requiring superstar help to win a championship.

But why does that taint LeBron but doesn't taint Kobe or Jordan or Magic or Russell?

It's not like those other guys were winning championships with a bunch of spuds. The Kobe / Shaq Lakers were, by far, the most talented team of their era and the same of course was true of the Jordan / Pippen Bulls and the Magic / Kareem Lakers. None of these guys were winning with ensembles who were greater than the sum of their parts.

We also know what it looked like when Kobe or Jordan weren't surrounded with elite talent. The results were often ugly. So why do some players get criticised for having 'help' while others have their 'help' ignored? Seems rather odd to me, unless people are being deliberately dense to drive an agenda.

Its about attitude and a sense of entitlement. There is the NBA fan that appreciates teams that are built via drafts and trades because their cities lack the ability to attract tier 1 FAs, and their are the NBA fans that coattail on superstar players. The former does not respect LeBron, the latter sees hm as infallible.

No one is perfect but at least Kobe and Jordan didn't suck up and spend all the resources of a team and then when the assets ran out, take off to another city.

[jfs1000d]

From Wade/Bosh to Kyrie/Love to peak AD and now to soon to be peak Luka, no top 10 player in league history has benefitted more from ‘stacking the deck’ so to speak and playing with such a variety of superstars/stars in league history as LeBron James. Even despite that he was incapable of matching Michael Jordan’s far more impressive 6 titles, including two 3-peats, in vastly less amount of time and with less star power and help.

LeBron’s title count seemed sealed at 4 until the most nonsensical trade in NBA history went down last week, gifting him a top 2-3 player who has yet to enter his prime even.

So the question is - how little value / how much taint should one assign to any future title(s) a 40+ year old LeBron who is clearly 2nd fiddle racks up? To me these would essentially be emptier than Durant’s 2 Warriors rings, and that’s saying a lot. Everyone knows LeBron is incapable of winning 6 titles the real way, thereby disqualifying him from true GOAT status forever.

LeBron has maybe another year or 2 next. There is no such thing as tainted titles.

And I am a Celtics fans that hate the Lakers and LeBron with a passion.


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[Chokic]

No player had more help than LeBron and yet only has 4 rings to show for it. Not sure how hes unanimously rated over Kobe. Wade was a top 6-7ish player during the time LeBron joined the heat and a top 13 player in Bosh. Even if we took away the 3 rings from Kobe playing with Shaq. If kobe could have so much power like LeBron to manage who he can play with it that miami heat off season signing would be the equivalent of Kobe teaming up with Dirk and Rajon Rondo in 2006 instead of playing with the outstanding smash parker kwame brown Brian cook.

LeBron would not have won a ring with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player much less two. He barely won a chip in La and that was bc AD was going ham in an asterisk bubble playoffs.

[Iwasawitness]

That's not true. He was the underdog versus the Warriors, Spurs.

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It's sashaturiaf. He's known for saying bat **** insane things about LeBron. This shouldn't surprise you.

First off, anybody that has read your posts knows that isn't true. Secondly, you regularly update your signature which is dedicated to hating LeBron, so by definition you DO spend time thinking about your hate

Alright, I apologize for what I've said in the past. You've redeemed yourself.

Children, children, you're all so upset

I get it- it must be frustrating for you all, especially after following him for so long and he hasn't even caught Kobe.

What do I have to be frustrated about?

[Dino353]

I don't think anyone judges LeBron as the GOAT due to amount of rings, at least I don't. Amount of rings says nothing about a player's greatness. LeBron is judged off what he did 03-20 not what he's doing right now.

You can say amount of rings doesn't say everything about a players greatness but to see it doesn't mean anything is just flat out wrong sorry.

Bron stans didn't start embracing that narrative until his Finals losses started piling up.

Well us "Bron stans" understand basketball is a team game. More often than not he just came up against a better team plain and simple. Basketball is not a 1 man show.

[Dino353]

You can say amount of rings doesn't say everything about a players greatness but to see it doesn't mean anything is just flat out wrong sorry.

Bron stans didn't start embracing that narrative until his Finals losses started piling up.

Exactly.

People forget the point of all the metrics, the stats, the records, are indicators for what players could give their team the best chance at a title. It just doesn't happen for some great players so we don't diminish their greatness, but the titles are why they play the game. The whole reason for lebrons hype was potential titles. The greatest ever just wouldn't have that finals record. Sorry. Great player but let's call it like it is.

Is it? I mean when I was growing up I didn't watch Allan Houston because I thought he was the best player in the game or cause I thought he was better than Sprewell, I just enjoyed watching him play. LeBron was the best player in the game for arguably 15 years, has won a ring everywhere he's went, led his teams to 8 straight Finals, won multiple MVP's,has been a perennial All-NBA performer his entire career, what more do you want?

[bubonicphoniks]

You can say amount of rings doesn't say everything about a players greatness but to see it doesn't mean anything is just flat out wrong sorry.

Bron stans didn't start embracing that narrative until his Finals losses started piling up.

Well us "Bron stans" understand basketball is a team game. More often than not he just came up against a better team plain and simple. Basketball is not a 1 man show.

Ok but you have to understand how hypocritical that comes off. The narrative seems to be... When Lebron wins all the sudden it's a one man show. When he loses it's a team loss.

[floppymoose]

What makes people think Luka is winning any rings?

[Dino353]

Bron stans didn't start embracing that narrative until his Finals losses started piling up.

Well us "Bron stans" understand basketball is a team game. More often than not he just came up against a better team plain and simple. Basketball is not a 1 man show.

Ok but you have to understand how hypocritical that comes off. The narrative seems to be... When Lebron wins all the sudden it's a one man show. When he loses it's a team loss.

Really? Seems like that's the case with Jordan and Kobe, his teammates never get any credit for their contributions. Everyone constantly brings up Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving with LeBron, don't know where you are getting your info. I mean aside from 2011, you can't really blame LeBron for those other losses. His teammates either didn't step up(2014) or he just came up against a better team(2007,2014,2015,2017,2018).

[KyRo23]

No player had more help than LeBron and yet only has 4 rings to show for it. Not sure how hes unanimously rated over Kobe. Wade was a top 6-7ish player during the time LeBron joined the heat and a top 13 player in Bosh. Even if we took away the 3 rings from Kobe playing with Shaq. If kobe could have so much power like LeBron to manage who he can play with it that miami heat off season signing would be the equivalent of Kobe teaming up with Dirk and Rajon Rondo in 2006 instead of playing with the outstanding smash parker kwame brown Brian cook.

LeBron would not have won a ring with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player much less two. He barely won a chip in La and that was bc AD was going ham in an asterisk bubble playoffs.

Your posts sounds amazing if context didn’t exist. You’re just using biased hypotheticals. Lemme give it a try

With the most dominant force in NBA history, Kobe won 3 of his 5 rings. He won a ring against Boston, the same team LeBron took to 7 games. Who was lebrons best teammate arguably in his first Cavs stint? Mo Williams?

Kobe loses in 2013 and 2016 in lebrons spot. Probably even swept in 2016. Shall we be doing more hypotheticals?

[FarBeyondDriven]

all his rings are a joke so what's one more?

[Chokic]

No player had more help than LeBron and yet only has 4 rings to show for it. Not sure how hes unanimously rated over Kobe. Wade was a top 6-7ish player during the time LeBron joined the heat and a top 13 player in Bosh. Even if we took away the 3 rings from Kobe playing with Shaq. If kobe could have so much power like LeBron to manage who he can play with it that miami heat off season signing would be the equivalent of Kobe teaming up with Dirk and Rajon Rondo in 2006 instead of playing with the outstanding smash parker kwame brown Brian cook.

LeBron would not have won a ring with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player much less two. He barely won a chip in La and that was bc AD was going ham in an asterisk bubble playoffs.

Your posts sounds amazing if context didn’t exist. You’re just using biased hypotheticals. Lemme give it a try

With the most dominant force in NBA history, Kobe won 3 of his 5 rings. He won a ring against Boston, the same team LeBron took to 7 games. Who was lebrons best teammate arguably in his first Cavs stint? Mo Williams?

Kobe loses in 2013 and 2016 in lebrons spot. Probably even swept in 2016. Shall we be doing more hypotheticals?

If kobe can carry one of the worst assembled roster of talent into the playoffs in 06 I'm sure he could have carried that cavs teams into the finals out of the weaker eastern conference. That cavs team still had Mo Williams Zydrunas Ilgauskas Delonte West Antawn Jamison Danny Green Anderson Varejao Daniel Gibson(who was solid at the time) all vets that knew how to play.

[michaelm]

You can say amount of rings doesn't say everything about a players greatness but to see it doesn't mean anything is just flat out wrong sorry.

Bron stans didn't start embracing that narrative until his Finals losses started piling up.

Well us "Bron stans" understand basketball is a team game. More often than not he just came up against a better team plain and simple. Basketball is not a 1 man show.

Yet you are largely fans of one player rather than of a team.

[One Last Shot]

No player had more help than LeBron and yet only has 4 rings to show for it. Not sure how hes unanimously rated over Kobe. Wade was a top 6-7ish player during the time LeBron joined the heat and a top 13 player in Bosh. Even if we took away the 3 rings from Kobe playing with Shaq. If kobe could have so much power like LeBron to manage who he can play with it that miami heat off season signing would be the equivalent of Kobe teaming up with Dirk and Rajon Rondo in 2006 instead of playing with the outstanding smash parker kwame brown Brian cook.

LeBron would not have won a ring with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player much less two. He barely won a chip in La and that was bc AD was going ham in an asterisk bubble playoffs.

Your posts sounds amazing if context didn’t exist. You’re just using biased hypotheticals. Lemme give it a try

With the most dominant force in NBA history, Kobe won 3 of his 5 rings. He won a ring against Boston, the same team LeBron took to 7 games. Who was lebrons best teammate arguably in his first Cavs stint? Mo Williams?

Kobe loses in 2013 and 2016 in lebrons spot. Probably even swept in 2016. Shall we be doing more hypotheticals?

If kobe can carry one of the worst assembled roster of talent into the playoffs in 06 I'm sure he could have carried that cavs teams into the finals out of the weaker eastern conference. That cavs team still had Mo Williams Zydrunas Ilgauskas Delonte West Antawn Jamison Danny Green Anderson Varejao Daniel Gibson(who was solid at the time) all vets that knew how to play.

Really? Danny Green who played 20 games and averaged 2.0 ppg as a rookie for 2010 Cavaliers ? It's kinda dumb to join a discussion you barely knew nothing about. Kobe miss the playoffs in 2005 when he's playing with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, those 2 are better players to anyone LeBron played with in 2007 Cavs, the squad he carried to NBA Finals. There's a reason why Kobe never won a single playoffs series without an All-NBA big man in his entire career, he's not built for that.

[Chokic]

Your posts sounds amazing if context didn’t exist. You’re just using biased hypotheticals. Lemme give it a try

With the most dominant force in NBA history, Kobe won 3 of his 5 rings. He won a ring against Boston, the same team LeBron took to 7 games. Who was lebrons best teammate arguably in his first Cavs stint? Mo Williams?

Kobe loses in 2013 and 2016 in lebrons spot. Probably even swept in 2016. Shall we be doing more hypotheticals?

If kobe can carry one of the worst assembled roster of talent into the playoffs in 06 I'm sure he could have carried that cavs teams into the finals out of the weaker eastern conference. That cavs team still had Mo Williams Zydrunas Ilgauskas Delonte West Antawn Jamison Danny Green Anderson Varejao Daniel Gibson(who was solid at the time) all vets that knew how to play.

Really? Danny Green who played 20 games and averaged 2.0 ppg as a rookie for 2010 Cavaliers ? It's kinda dumb to join a discussion you barely knew nothing about. Kobe miss the playoffs in 2005 when he's playing with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, those 2 are better players to anyone LeBron played with in 2007 Cavs, the squad he carried to NBA Finals. There's a reason why Kobe never won a single playoffs series without an All-NBA big man in his entire career, he's not built for that.

By your logic lebron should have won more than 2 rings w/ Wade and Bosh.

[KGtabake]

How tainted were Jabbar's rings with the Lakers since Magic was the main man?

[michaelm]

Your posts sounds amazing if context didn’t exist. You’re just using biased hypotheticals. Lemme give it a try

With the most dominant force in NBA history, Kobe won 3 of his 5 rings. He won a ring against Boston, the same team LeBron took to 7 games. Who was lebrons best teammate arguably in his first Cavs stint? Mo Williams?

Kobe loses in 2013 and 2016 in lebrons spot. Probably even swept in 2016. Shall we be doing more hypotheticals?

If kobe can carry one of the worst assembled roster of talent into the playoffs in 06 I'm sure he could have carried that cavs teams into the finals out of the weaker eastern conference. That cavs team still had Mo Williams Zydrunas Ilgauskas Delonte West Antawn Jamison Danny Green Anderson Varejao Daniel Gibson(who was solid at the time) all vets that knew how to play.

Really? Danny Green who played 20 games and averaged 2.0 ppg as a rookie for 2010 Cavaliers ? It's kinda dumb to join a discussion you barely knew nothing about. Kobe miss the playoffs in 2005 when he's playing with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, those 2 are better players to anyone LeBron played with in 2007 Cavs, the squad he carried to NBA Finals. There's a reason why Kobe never won a single playoffs series without an All-NBA big man in his entire career, he's not built for that.

I rate LeBron ahead of Kobe, but of course Kobe needs a quality big, he is a SG.

Having one guy however talented doing everything is not necessarily the best approach in the team sport of basketball, imo it very probably isn’t, although having a PF or SF who is also a highly elite PG and can defend every position if required is no doubt rather handy, and a contributor to LeBron being imo the GOAT floor raiser. However it is not only legitimate to have Kobe do Kobe things and others on his team do non Kobe things, it actually worked, 5 times in fact.

[michaelm]

How tainted were Jabbar's rings with the Lakers since Magic was the main man?

His weren’t, and nor would any further rings won by LeBron be, except if Luka being traded to the Free Throw Takers was a high level conspiracy by the NBA to aid him. I could see a conspiracy to give the most popular NBA team a future, but not to help LeBron, Luka is not a good fit with LeBron imo, and one of them would have to be a very elite 6th man off the bench to win it all.

Looks to me that the new Mavs ownership just didn’t like Luka and his attitude, and assessed the odds of him giving value/a return on capital if signed to a long term supermax contract as not being very high. Could have been something of a push to get him to the Lakers if he was leaving anyway however, the Lakers being relevant is good for the business of the NBA and the new Mavs guys are business people, not that gambling is much of a business in my view.

If a further ring or rings eventuated it should however imo bring an end to the but Pippen narrative in relation to Jordan‘s rings and to the KD’s rings don’t count narrative, from LeBron fans at least, the major drivers of both narratives imo.