2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[TeamTragic]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

Riley can go **** himself.

[Frank Lee]

……

Then of course we gave up the 27 and 29 unprotected, and an unprotected 28 swap. The impact of that trade is far from over.

I hope we can recoup at least a decent percentage of that value. What a waste and a boring team to watch.

The meltdown is going to be severe around here when those picks and swaps land in the top ten. Imagine the worst… lottery this year, and by fluke the top pick…?
Oh brother.

This assshat Wishbia has destroyed this team. F-er should be booed at the arena whenever the part-time Arizonan shows up. You are so right… the impact is far from over.

When was his last interview btw?

[Calvin Klein]

……

Then of course we gave up the 27 and 29 unprotected, and an unprotected 28 swap. The impact of that trade is far from over.

I hope we can recoup at least a decent percentage of that value. What a waste and a boring team to watch.

The meltdown is going to be severe around here when those picks and swaps land in the top ten. Imagine the worst… lottery this year, and by fluke the top pick…?
Oh brother.

This assshat Wishbia has destroyed this team. F-er should be booed at the arena whenever the part-time Arizonan shows up. You are so right… the impact is far from over.

When was his last interview btw?

It still surprises me how much support he seems to get, still, just because "at least he is trying".

[Saberestar]

One of the moves that I would like our FO to do is to sign Colin Gillespie to an official regular contract with the Suns.

Whenever he plays he shows that he belongs to the league and I think he can be a solid backup PG for years to come, he played very well against the Rockets.

Yesterday with KD on the crowd he made an amazing performance with the G-League team. 30 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds and 5 steals.

He is better than Tyus or Monte on defense. I know that is not saying too much, but he is good boxing out and has better strength than those two. High basketball IQ too.

[bwgood77]

I'll probably get hate for this, but I'd love to bring in Benjamin Simmons if he's willing to sign here on a vet min.

What he does well, our team misses in terms of defense, play making, rebounding. What he lacks in terms of shooting, we already have plenty off.

We might be able to convince him to come over if we offer him a starting spot like we did with Tyus. The Clippers are unlikely to be willing to do that due to having Harden and Powell in the back court.

Worthy signing for the minimum, though I'd probably use him as a Point Center since he has no range and can guard Cs. If we play with another big like Bol it could work.

[bwgood77]

……

Then of course we gave up the 27 and 29 unprotected, and an unprotected 28 swap. The impact of that trade is far from over.

I hope we can recoup at least a decent percentage of that value. What a waste and a boring team to watch.

The meltdown is going to be severe around here when those picks and swaps land in the top ten. Imagine the worst… lottery this year, and by fluke the top pick…?
Oh brother.

This assshat Wishbia has destroyed this team. F-er should be booed at the arena whenever the part-time Arizonan shows up. You are so right… the impact is far from over.

When was his last interview btw?

Yeah, if our pick jumps to #1, of even top 4 at all, it's bad, but still, Bridges, Cam, Crowder, whoever got drafted with our 23 pick, a lottery pick this year unless somehow we get into the playoffs, and probably better picks given up in 27, 28 and 29 (and now 31).

Ugly.

Sarver started this way too. When we had that 04-05 team, obviously with guys who would command big salaries, he started trading draft picks thinking "who cares about draft picks" instead of getting Iguodala or Deng on rookie contracts, and keeping picks instead of trading them or using them to dump contracts.

You draft that guy instead of signing Q, you never have to trade Q for Kurt Thomas and use 2 firsts (one being Ibaka) to dump him later.

Finally he learns to not trade picks, but unfortunately by that time we had Lance Blanks and then McD making picks like Kendall Marshall, Len, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, Ulis over Brogdon and another good PG I forget. TJ and Book good picks but not much else.

It's amazing today that looking around the league, at these great teams that have built through the draft (OKC, Memphis, Houston, SA, Boston (Tatum and Brown), Cleveland (Garland and Mobley), Minnesota (Edwards), etc, all the teams near the top, you do well.

Probably the best built team almost done exclusively through trades and FA is NY (for once).

Simmons had a pod the other day saying some of these new owners come in, and at first say they will trust the basketball guys, but then decide because they have been successful in other businesses that they are smarter than the other owners, and trade for aging stars (Prokhorov, Ballmer, Ishbia, there was someone else named)...and destroy their future for years. Ballmer did ok, but still gave up Shai for George to get Kawhi but injuries have done them in. Brooklyn somehow was kind of savvy rebuilding, then being a huge market was able to sign KD and Kyrie and get a massive # of picks for them and are now looking very pretty with assets. We don't get these stars in FA, but squander a bunch of draft picks and solid rotation guys getting them. If you can get them in FA, you can later use them to add picks, BIG difference.

[bwgood77]

One of the moves that I would like our FO to do is to sign Colin Gillespie to an official regular contract with the Suns.

Whenever he plays he shows that he belongs to the league and I think he can be a solid backup PG for years to come, he played very well against the Rockets.

Yesterday with KD on the crowd he made an amazing performance with the G-League team. 30 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds and 5 steals.

He is better than Tyus or Monte on defense. I know that is not saying too much, but he is good boxing out and has better strength than those two. High basketball IQ too.

TyTy looking better too, and I was surprised to hear his G league stats. I can't remember the exact PPG, but it was at least high teens, and he shot 43% from 3 and 47% from all (probably a high 2pt% because he shot a high volume of 3s bringing down overall %).

Just started out with lack of confidence shooting, but seemed to gain some in the last one.

I think the FO MAY be using this time to look a little more at the young guys in those two and Bol (still only 25) and maybe hope to keep them and maybe have them as fairly solid bench players if we rebuild or even if not.

[bwgood77]

Who's that reporter that used to work for the Suns and now finds every opportunity he can to crap on us?

Do you mean Amin Elhassan by chance?

Exactly him. Dude has been salty since

That's who I was going to name, but not haven't heard from him in awhile. Real cocky when he got a job at ESPN. Probably not so much anymore.

These sports reporters at big sites, etc, are becoming a thing of the past. Marc Stein, Zach Lowe, etc.

I assume Zach Lowe HAS to end up at The Athletic or The Ringer. They won't be able to pay him what ESPN did, but maybe they can structure his contract to where he gets a percentage based on readers, and a bigger % of readers that have specifically signed up to read him by some metric. Like a % of revenue and traffic he brings to the site.

The Athletic would be good. They could probably drop a lot of their NBA writers/contractors if need be if they had him. He probably got a year of severance so can start writing next season (hopefully).

[Saberestar]

One of the moves that I would like our FO to do is to sign Colin Gillespie to an official regular contract with the Suns.

Whenever he plays he shows that he belongs to the league and I think he can be a solid backup PG for years to come, he played very well against the Rockets.

Yesterday with KD on the crowd he made an amazing performance with the G-League team. 30 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds and 5 steals.

He is better than Tyus or Monte on defense. I know that is not saying too much, but he is good boxing out and has better strength than those two. High basketball IQ too.

TyTy looking better too, and I was surprised to hear his G league stats. I can't remember the exact PPG, but it was at least high teens, and he shot 43% from 3 and 47% from all (probably a high 2pt% because he shot a high volume of 3s bringing down overall %).

Just started out with lack of confidence shooting, but seemed to gain some in the last one.

I think the FO MAY be using this time to look a little more at the young guys in those two and Bol (still only 25) and maybe hope to keep them and maybe have them as fairly solid bench players if we rebuild or even if not.

Not a fan of TyTy for now. He looks to me a too confident high usage small SG who plays a bit out of control...but I want to see more from him, I don't want to judge him too fast.

OTOH every time I have seen Gillespie playing I loved what I saw from him. He plays at his own pace, his shooting and shot selection is great and he doesn't look to me a liability on defense.

It's a good decision to give these guys minutes over Monte Morris and Damion Lee.

Monte was mediocre all season long and with Beal and Allen out lately Damion played some minutes and it's pretty obvious that he has regressed after his year off with a hard injury. His NBA career probably is over.

[King4Day]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

Riley can go **** himself.

Their proposed trade isn't legal. They would have to include Rozier to make salaries work.
If we're doing that, they need to cough up more.

[bwgood77]

One of the moves that I would like our FO to do is to sign Colin Gillespie to an official regular contract with the Suns.

Whenever he plays he shows that he belongs to the league and I think he can be a solid backup PG for years to come, he played very well against the Rockets.

Yesterday with KD on the crowd he made an amazing performance with the G-League team. 30 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds and 5 steals.

He is better than Tyus or Monte on defense. I know that is not saying too much, but he is good boxing out and has better strength than those two. High basketball IQ too.

TyTy looking better too, and I was surprised to hear his G league stats. I can't remember the exact PPG, but it was at least high teens, and he shot 43% from 3 and 47% from all (probably a high 2pt% because he shot a high volume of 3s bringing down overall %).

Just started out with lack of confidence shooting, but seemed to gain some in the last one.

I think the FO MAY be using this time to look a little more at the young guys in those two and Bol (still only 25) and maybe hope to keep them and maybe have them as fairly solid bench players if we rebuild or even if not.

Not a fan of TyTy for now. He looks to me a too confident high usage small SG who plays a bit out of control...but I want to see more from him, I don't want to judge him too fast.

OTOH every time I have seen Gillespie playing I loved what I saw from him. He plays at his own pace, his shooting and shot selection is great and he doesn't look to me a liability on defense.

It's a good decision to give these guys minutes over Monte Morris and Damion Lee.

Monte was mediocre all season long and with Beal and Allen out lately Damion played some minutes and it's pretty obvious that he has regressed after his year off with a hard injury. His NBA career probably is over.

I loved when we signed Gillespie, so I'd prefer to keep him too. My comment with TyTy was more that he looked way better Wednesday than he did Tuesday, and seemed to have more confidence, so maybe if that grows, he will show more.

[bwgood77]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

Riley can go **** himself.

Their proposed trade isn't legal. They would have to include Rozier to make salaries work.
If we're doing that, they need to cough up more.

Why doesn't it work? Because they can't take back more salary? Because we can certainly take less. They could dump someone else.

The thing that looks odd to me is the 2 picks.

I don't think I'd want to pay Wiggins that much. That means he is one of your main guys. I like Jacquez and the picks. Don't know much about Highsmith.

This is just Miami's point of view. I don't know what other teams will want KD and what they will give up. Another team may be ok with Wiggins and will give up something to us though. Maybe not a great contract but someone who makes more sense or expires sooner.

[Ghost of Kleine]

One of the moves that I would like our FO to do is to sign Colin Gillespie to an official regular contract with the Suns.

Whenever he plays he shows that he belongs to the league and I think he can be a solid backup PG for years to come, he played very well against the Rockets.

Yesterday with KD on the crowd he made an amazing performance with the G-League team. 30 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds and 5 steals.

He is better than Tyus or Monte on defense. I know that is not saying too much, but he is good boxing out and has better strength than those two. High basketball IQ too.

I loved his game and style of play and tenacity coming out of Villanova. And though he did really great in Denver despite his size and athletic limitations. And had lobbied for him a couple of years ago to be our McConnell off the bench for dirt cheap. I'm really glad that the Suns finally identified him and his value that he brings as I know it's not always easy to see on the surface sometimes.

Situation can obscure the identification of potential value/ underlying talent sometimes it seems.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'll probably get hate for this, but I'd love to bring in Benjamin Simmons if he's willing to sign here on a vet min.

What he does well, our team misses in terms of defense, play making, rebounding. What he lacks in terms of shooting, we already have plenty off.

We might be able to convince him to come over if we offer him a starting spot like we did with Tyus. The Clippers are unlikely to be willing to do that due to having Harden and Powell in the back court.

Worthy signing for the minimum, though I'd probably use him as a Point Center since he has no range and can guard Cs. If we play with another big like Bol it could work.

I'll keep saying that I strongly believe Simmons could have value and ( positive) impact given his size, length, decent athleticism playmaking and defense in a draymond green type of role with him playing at the SF/PF role just operating as a secondary frontcourt initiator/ playmaker and swallowing up the opposing offensive players defensively with his size, length and mobility.

And maybe he could rebuild some value and confidence from such a role. But now that he's signed with the Clippers, who knows how they'll intend to utilize him?

[BobbieL]

……

Then of course we gave up the 27 and 29 unprotected, and an unprotected 28 swap. The impact of that trade is far from over.

I hope we can recoup at least a decent percentage of that value. What a waste and a boring team to watch.

The meltdown is going to be severe around here when those picks and swaps land in the top ten. Imagine the worst… lottery this year, and by fluke the top pick…?
Oh brother.

This assshat Wishbia has destroyed this team. F-er should be booed at the arena whenever the part-time Arizonan shows up. You are so right… the impact is far from over.

When was his last interview btw?

Yeah, if our pick jumps to #1, of even top 4 at all, it's bad, but still, Bridges, Cam, Crowder, whoever got drafted with our 23 pick, a lottery pick this year unless somehow we get into the playoffs, and probably better picks given up in 27, 28 and 29 (and now 31).

Ugly.

Sarver started this way too. When we had that 04-05 team, obviously with guys who would command big salaries, he started trading draft picks thinking "who cares about draft picks" instead of getting Iguodala or Deng on rookie contracts, and keeping picks instead of trading them or using them to dump contracts.

You draft that guy instead of signing Q, you never have to trade Q for Kurt Thomas and use 2 firsts (one being Ibaka) to dump him later.

Finally he learns to not trade picks, but unfortunately by that time we had Lance Blanks and then McD making picks like Kendall Marshall, Len, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, Ulis over Brogdon and another good PG I forget. TJ and Book good picks but not much else.

It's amazing today that looking around the league, at these great teams that have built through the draft (OKC, Memphis, Houston, SA, Boston (Tatum and Brown), Cleveland (Garland and Mobley), Minnesota (Edwards), etc, all the teams near the top, you do well.

Probably the best built team almost done exclusively through trades and FA is NY (for once).

Simmons had a pod the other day saying some of these new owners come in, and at first say they will trust the basketball guys, but then decide because they have been successful in other businesses that they are smarter than the other owners, and trade for aging stars (Prokhorov, Ballmer, Ishbia, there was someone else named)...and destroy their future for years. Ballmer did ok, but still gave up Shai for George to get Kawhi but injuries have done them in. Brooklyn somehow was kind of savvy rebuilding, then being a huge market was able to sign KD and Kyrie and get a massive # of picks for them and are now looking very pretty with assets. We don't get these stars in FA, but squander a bunch of draft picks and solid rotation guys getting them. If you can get them in FA, you can later use them to add picks, BIG difference.

My two Bobby Sarver moves:
1) One year they had the 17th and 18th picks in the draft so they trade one to Portland for $$ and they drafted Sergio Rodriguez. Traded the other with Grant to the Celtics who picked Rondo. But than two weeks later, signed Marcus Banks to a big contract like 21/4. When you could have sold one pick for cash and drafted Rondo - would have been much cheaper as four year rookie deals were not $21m at the time

2) Signing Diaw and Barbosa as Base year players to extensions but not realizing the cap in 12 months would be hit harder with the Diaw and Lb extensions, so traded Kurt Thomas and two picks to save money

oh yes, number 3

3) When Shaq was traded to Cleveland the Suns got Ben Wallace - who they bought out and saved Bobby a bunch of $$. Rumor was, New Orleans would have taken Tyson Chandler for Wallace. And on that team with Amare, Nash, Marion , or maybe it was Grant Hill, a 5 like Chandler in his prime years would have won them the title. I am convinced!

[BobbieL]

https://www.si.com/nba/heat/heat-predicted-to-cut-ties-with-andrew-wiggins-in-blockbuster-offseason-trade-for-194-million-superstar-01jm0whjt9dj

Thoughts on this?

Riley can go **** himself.

Still not so sure the market for Durant will be as good as one would hope.

Unless they can agree to an extension, trading for an expiring contract.

Granted, I think there are teams closer than the Heat where Durant might push them over the top. Lets see what happens in the playoffs and see what teams will need him

[DirtyDez]

KD and Rich Kleiman won’t make this easy. As we know certain caliber players have no trade clauses even if they don’t actually have no trade clauses. If KD wants to go somewhere to win a title he won’t want that team giving up a bunch of stuff so they have enough to contend. Basically learning from his Phoenix trade demand from 2 years ago.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Puff]

I want to see the guarantee to be a starter given to Tyus end after the Allstar break. We need to put Bradley Beal back in the starting lineup. I also think Bol Bol needs to be added to the starting 5. While I like Dunn, I think most are just happy to see a youngster get some playing time. Bol Bol is young as well. I have no idea what happened to Oso. I thought he played well when given minutes. I wish someone would change his shot mechanics. I just love his attitude and skill set other than how he shoots the basketball. Could Eddie Johnson help him?

I also am for giving minutes to Gillespie prior to Jones. I like Jones shooting but not much of anything else. I do not see him as a creator for others and he is a poor defender. I think that is why we were able to get him for the minimum.

While I like Grayson Allen, I think we gave him a contract we are not going to be able to move. That goes for O'Neale as well. The thought is that we could trade them for additional help if needed. We needed help at the deadline and they are still here and we did not acquire any help. I have my doubts on Richards as well. He is no better than Nurkic at finishing at the rim or so it seems.

I also am tired of Point Book. It has to be scoring Book. I cannot stand watching him drive to the bucket for a wide open lay up and kick the ball to a three point shooter that bricks the shot and it is a fast break going the other way.

It also seems that there is something wrong in the locker room. Who is causing that problem? Nurk was blamed. He is gone everything should be just fine, right.

Just think, prior to KD all we really complained about was Ayton's motor.

I miss CP3

[BobbieL]

I want to see the guarantee to be a starter given to Tyus end after the Allstar break. We need to put Bradley Beal back in the starting lineup. I also think Bol Bol needs to be added to the starting 5. While I like Dunn, I think most are just happy to see a youngster get some playing time. Bol Bol is young as well. I have no idea what happened to Oso. I thought he played well when given minutes. I wish someone would change his shot mechanics. I just love his attitude and skill set other than how he shoots the basketball. Could Eddie Johnson help him?

I also am for giving minutes to Gillespie prior to Jones. I like Jones shooting but not much of anything else. I do not see him as a creator for others and he is a poor defender. I think that is why we were able to get him for the minimum.

While I like Grayson Allen, I think we gave him a contract we are not going to be able to move. That goes for O'Neale as well. The thought is that we could trade them for additional help if needed. We needed help at the deadline and they are still here and we did not acquire any help. I have my doubts on Richards as well. He is no better than Nurkic at finishing at the rim or so it seems.

I also am tired of Point Book. It has to be scoring Book. I cannot stand watching him drive to the bucket for a wide open lay up and kick the ball to a three point shooter that bricks the shot and it is a fast break going the other way.

It also seems that there is something wrong in the locker room. Who is causing that problem? Nurk was blamed. He is gone everything should be just fine, right.

Just think, prior to KD all we really complained about was Ayton's motor.

I miss CP3

If the team trades Allen and O'Neale - they won't be great deals. Just moving dollars for dollars and maybe you get lucky and get an expiring contract back with Allen or O'Neale being a better fit for the team they are traded for. Part of this rebuild has to be the Suns getting under apron levels to be able to make real moves, use the MLE, etc.

This rebuild is going to take some time if they have the guts to do right. As BWG stated, they don't have to trade Booker on July 1 when free agency opens - Durant is first, get under the apron and go from there

Chemistry and roster are not working