Pacers/NOP and Pistons

[Jon1798]

Pels aren’t trading Herb. Not for this. I know in the day and age where Luka gets traded, it’s hard to hear that. But Herb was first team all defense, shooting over 40% from three with a great drive and finishing game. He’s on a ridiculous value contract and is the most beloved player here. Pels fans motto is trade Herb and we riot.

[Scoot McGroot]

Pels aren’t trading Herb. Not for this. I know in the day and age where Luka gets traded, it’s hard to hear that. But Herb was first team all defense, shooting over 40% from three with a great drive and finishing game. He’s on a ridiculous value contract and is the most beloved player here. Pels fans motto is trade Herb and we riot.

Herb shot 30.6% from 3 this year and is a career 36.6% shooter from 3. Last year, he shot 41.8% in 76 games, but he’s shot 33.8% in the other 164 games of his career.

The fact that Herb is an absolutely amazing defender is he reason a team like Indy would even consider trading a strong package of “prized prospect and maybe also a pick” for him.

[vege]

I think some of y'all are giving up on Tech a bit too early and pronouncing Tobias dead way too early. Can't make any moves until this offseason anyway, though, so we have time to see how things go. I would not currently be in a rush to devote a lot of resources to a middling PF like Obi or Pat Williams, though. If you want to upgrade Tobias, you should be really sure it's an upgrade, imo.

Fontecchio doesn't look like an NBA player anymore. His fit is terrible under this new regime. He seems like a cool guy, great teammate and players love him and the effort has been there, even during terrible shooting nights he always plays hard and fight for every single rebound.

Tobias only have 1 more season under contract and he will be 34 after his contract is done. He'll need to be replaced eventually, neither Ausar/Ron or especially Stew can spend more than 5 mpg at the 4. We have decent young players for every other position.

Klintman could surprise everyone and be read to take over in a couple of years but I doubt it. Other than him, we have 0 options right now, so it might be a good idea to start thinking about it.

Obi Toppin and Patrick Williams are realistic options.

[oldncreaky]

On the Pat Williams v Obi Toppin topic, I'm firmly on the side of Toppin. I think Toppin's game would fit a bit better with DET, and while PWilliams in theory provides better D, it's not enough of a difference to matter because both are probably sitting during closing minutes of a close game.

I also think the case for Toppin over Fontecchio is blindingly obvious. Pacers do the trade for financial reasons, and DET leverages financial flexibility (while they have it!) to pick up a rotation piece for a non-rotation piece.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think some of y'all are giving up on Tech a bit too early and pronouncing Tobias dead way too early. Can't make any moves until this offseason anyway, though, so we have time to see how things go. I would not currently be in a rush to devote a lot of resources to a middling PF like Obi or Pat Williams, though. If you want to upgrade Tobias, you should be really sure it's an upgrade, imo.

Fontecchio doesn't look like an NBA player anymore. His fit is terrible under this new regime. He seems like a cool guy, great teammate and players love him and the effort has been there, even during terrible shooting nights he always plays hard and fight for every single rebound.

Tobias only have 1 more season under contract and he will be 34 after his contract is done. He'll need to be replaced eventually, neither Ausar/Ron or especially Stew can spend more than 5 mpg at the 4. We have decent young players for every other position.

Klintman could surprise everyone and be read to take over in a couple of years but I doubt it. Other than him, we have 0 options right now, so it might be a good idea to start thinking about it.

Obi Toppin and Patrick Williams are realistic options.

Tech looked great in limited sample size last year and has looked bad (in a completely new role) in just over half a season this year. I'm not writing the book on him just yet. No reason he can't bounce back and the cost for seeing is low.

But I'm not pitching him as a starter or anything. He's currently about a 9th man on our roster and could be a 10th man if Holland progresses. Hopefully he figures out how to excel in that role and finds a way out of his career low shooting stretch. If not, we'll need a different 9th or 10th man. No biggie.

Holland is really young and needs to improve his shot a ton, but he's 6'8 and could easily put on mass and become a future PF option. We've got the rest of this year and all of next with Tobias, giving us time to see how Holland develops.

But if we're going to get impatient and push the time table for a new 4, I don't think borderline starters like Toppin and Williams are worth it. Shoot for the moon at that point and try to get Durant. Or just stay the course and see how we develop and who becomes available for cheap.

Also, I don't think the Bulls have any intention of selling Pat Will. (Nor do I personally want him).

[vege]

But if we're going to get impatient and push the time table for a new 4, I don't think borderline starters like Toppin and Williams are worth it. Shoot for the moon at that point and try to get Durant. Or just stay the course and see how we develop and who becomes available for cheap.

I would love for us to get Durant, it would cost Ivey and or Duren probably and possibly still a 1st.

Good defensive center, let's say Goga Bitadze/Durant/Ausar/Beasley/Cade would be awesome.

Tek has been a disaster, all he can do is catch and shoot. He's been asked to do more than that and he's not been NBA material, sadly. We can't have him in our rotation next season, he could still be good somewhere else.

[Kalamazoo317]

Ivey, Tobias, Tech for Durant works financially, I think. Our first will probably convey this year so that’d free up some sweeteners

[basketballwacko2]

PACERS
In:Herb Jones/Fontecchio
Out:J.Walker/Mathurin/Pacers 28 FRP

They consolidate pieces... they get the DPOY candidate that every contender needs and they save a few million to re-sign Turner.
It may be an overpayment, but at this point... in my opinion, that's what they need.

Hali/Nembhard/Herb/Siakam/Turner
Mcconell/Shepard/Nesmith/Fontecchio/Jackson

NOP
In:Walker/Mathurin/FRP 28
Out:Herb Jones

why? i think the offer is too good to turn down.. they lose the most valuable player currently.. but the sum of the parts and they probably get players with a higher ceiling and a future FRP in the coffers


PISTONS
In:Toppin
Out: Fontecchio

They improve at a position of need, just by taking on a little salary.. Toppin is the ideal archetype that Cade can bring out in..catching lobs and shooting 3s at a position of need for the Pistons

If I'm Indiana I want no part of this! The two highest drafted players in the last 25 years at 6 and 8 in their drafts and you want a 2028 #1 pick too! No that's outrageous!

This reminds me of a few years ago some guy on here thinking Robert Covington was work 4-5 #1 picks.

[DrModesty]

Patrick Williams has actively declined 2 years in a row (from a low base) and at this point is only in the Chicago rotation due to a combination of lack of talent and investment.

He is also sneaky unathletic. That may be due to injuries, but he isn't quick, isn't springy and is low motor. Obi is the better guy to bring off the bench and neither player should be starting.

[Wizop]

Pacers will have to lose a player they like next summer to keep Turner but this isn't that kind of a trade. We'll be losing a rotation player not gaining a high priced starter

[zeebneeb]

The problem with these trades, to get the Pistons a PF, is that the team may not need them. Ausar, and Holland can both play that role. Holland is 6'8, needs to out on some weight, but his shot is coming around. He's a rookie, gotta give him some time.

Pat Williams is a massive red flag, especially for that kind of money. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts, that if given the same amount of burn, Holland outperforms him, whilst playing excellent defense, and amazing hustle.

I get why people are drawn to Williams. I really do. He has the size, and he moves like Kawhi. Thats it though. It's 5 years in. He is, who he is.(unless some kind of miracle happens, like a passion transplant.)

[Laimbeer]

Can Obi keep up that level of production in more minutes, possibly as a starter? He's a dynamic young big man who can stretch the floor - I'd love to see him on the Pistons. Harris and Tek are a waste of oxygen.

[basketballwacko2]

Pacers will have to lose a player they like next summer to keep Turner but this isn't that kind of a trade. We'll be losing a rotation player not gaining a high priced starter

I think it will be Toppin, some hard choices will have to be made at some point 2-3 years down the road.