tsherkin wrote:ciueli wrote:He is a swing, he will be a player who has to guard other swings. The fact is we don't have a good defensive starter at the 1, 2, or 3 spot, that is a massive liability on defence, no question.
This assumes Scottie at the 4 the entire time, so it isn't entirely correct. And again, Ingram isn't a bad defender, he just isn't threatening the All-D teams.
We're already playing Scottie high 30s in minute totals per game in a year when we are supposed to be tanking. What makes you think there will be a lot of free minutes at PF in a year when we are actually trying to win games? For that matter, we shouldn't even want Ingram playing PF as we are already an undersized team, I can't see Ingram successfully defending or being a functional rebounder against larger players.
Ultimately, having poor defence at the staring 1, 2, and 3 spots is going to hurt this team, you are really trying to handwave this away, but that is the reality. The majority of the top tier teams in the NBA have incredible defence (OKC, Celts, Cavs, Rockets, Grizz), the path we're following is Indiana (all offence no defence) but we don't even have the offensive players they have to make it work as we don't have a stretch C and don't have players as good as Pascal or Haliburton. So we're settling for poor man's Indiana, it's not going to work.
tsherkin wrote:So what you're saying is that I'm not incorrect at all? Because you have to go all the way back to 2020-21 to see a season where he played at least 60 games and attempted 6+ 3s per game on a decent percentage?
We're assuming he plays 60+ games. The reduced volume from two seasons doesn't outweigh the two seasons prior to that, nor how he was playing when he was on the court this year.
You can't use anything about this season as a positive, he's played 18 games. If next season is anything like this season we're completely screwed because 18 games from him by this point would be a disaster.
tsherkin wrote: Say what you want about DeMar DeRozan and his midrange game, but at least he made up for it a bit by getting to the line consistently (lot of seasons with 8+ FTA per game).
I mean, no, not really. DeRozan "made up for it" by posting comparable efficiency to Ingram. He didn't become efficient until he left us, so it was really "six of one, half a dozen of the other" between the two. Only he didn't have the 3pt range at all. And it took several years before DeRozan caught himself up to league average efficiency as his volume increased. So he isn't a particularly good example to draw. He was surely excellent at getting to the rim, but because he was below average at actually making shots and had no 3pt range, it ultimately didn't much matter.
You completely missed my point here. Ingram is a jump shooter who doesn't get to the line all that much. The starting 5 is largely composed of players who also don't get to the line and draw a lot of fouls, maybe outside Barrett and he needs the ball in his hands to do that which will happen much less with Ingram on board and IQ healthy. It would be fine if Ingram was a 3+D type helping in other areas of deficiency for this team, but he isn't, again this looks like a bad fit. For reference, this team is currently 24th in the league in % of points from free throws, that's not necessarily bad but adding in that we're 29th in % of points from 3 pointers and it's pretty clear we're already relying too much on scoring 2 pointers and need diversification of offence.
tsherkin wrote:You should tell that to Darko since he plays Scottie as a guard while slotting in Barrett as a PF.
Barrett doesn't guard anyone of consequential size, we know this. Scottie handling doesn't make him a guard.
It's very dependant on us not drafting another SG or SF. Maybe there's a trade to be made that sends out one or more of Gradey, Ja'Kobe, Agbaji, or even Barrett to smooth out the roster, but right now we are overloaded on swings at the expense of bigs, that's just a fact. The worst part is this may induce Masai to draft for need instead of BPA with our top pick this year, I've already joked about them selecting Khaman Maluach if they fall out of the top 5 because they could play him off the bench and plug a hole at backup centre.
tsherkin wrote:It's not a reasonable series when he averaged 14.3PPG and was supposed to be the main scorer on his team you know, what Brandon Ingram is supposed to be good at, the entire reason for his value as a player. When he can't even do that in a playoff series, why are we spending $40M/year on him?
And again, over a 4-game sample where two of them were good, and within the context of 10 total games played in the playoffs, you're overreacting. Badly. It's possible that he proves to be a crap playoff performer, but it's equally possible that 2 games don't define his postseason ability.
It's relevant because he doesn't have a reputation of a) getting his teams into the playoffs every season and b) having a lot of success even if he does get there. Not saying that he can't be part of a successful team in the right situation, but I don't believe the Raptors are that team or that right situation for him.
Here's a quick post trade evaluation, I think it's clear if you read it that the overall view of this trade outside Raptor controlled Toronto media isn't overwhelmingly positive and is viewed as something of a risky gamble, this tracks with my view of things:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25153396-report-brandon-ingrams-injury-history-cooled-trade-interest-2025-nba-deadlineSome suitors were concerned with Brandon Ingram's injury history leading up to the NBA trade deadline, according to NBA insider Jake Fischer.
Fischer reported Wednesday that factor "inevitably cooled several teams' eagerness" to acquire the veteran forward.
Ingram has been out of action since Dec. 7 because of an ankle sprain. His debut for the Toronto Raptors will have to wait for at least another game because he was ruled out for Wednesday's contest with the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Durability has long been a problem for the 27-year-old, who has logged 70-plus appearances just once since entering the NBA in 2016.
That didn’t stop the Raptors from not only trading for Ingram but also handing him a three-year extension worth $120 million.
General manager Bobby Webster said the 2019-20 All-Star is “entering his prime” and “by no means is he a finished product." He also tried to allay any fears about Ingram’s health.
“We feel like we have the best medical staff in the league,” he told reporters. “I know there's been some concern about the injuries.”
The Ingram trade is a big gamble by Toronto on two fronts.
The size of the extension speaks for itself, and the decision to pursue the 6’8” forward in the first place indicates a bullish short-term outlook from the front office. The Raptors are projected to have the ninth-highest payroll in the NBA for 2025-26.
Despite the fact it's likely to miss the playoffs for the third straight year, this isn't a franchise that's rebuilding. It’s expecting Ingram to both stay healthy and play at a high enough level to make a top-six challenge in the Eastern Conference realistic.
Should Ingram’s injury record fail to improve, it will have major consequences for Toronto.
