Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[Mattya]

Let’s take this and run with it. Also remember that we are hard capped, meaning 2nd apron is not an option. We are also limited to tax payer MLE.

Our rotation is DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy
We have TSJ, Minott, Miller, now need to build out the roster. You lose Naz, probably NAW, you only have 8 players so you need to sign 6. The Utah draft pick probably costs about 2 (rookie minimum on a hinkie.) Clark gets the same deal. That gives you about 16 to sign 4 players and fill in the massive holes in our roster construction and depth. Sounds like a great way to win a title.

Technically that’s 18 million since you’ve already cut Garza, with Naz’s and NAW cap holds still intact. Seems like a really nice cushion to fill out the roster I don’t really see the issue.

$207,825,000: Hard cap number (where the second apron begins.)

$117,399,133: Ant + Rudy + Jaden + DDV

$54,708,609: KD

$117,399,133 + $54,708,609 =$172,107,742.00

$172,107,742.00: Starters with KD

$207,825,000 - $172,107,742 =$35,717,258.00.


$35,717,258.00 How much we have left for 9 players.

$7,083,208: TSJ + Minott + Miller.

$35,717,258 - $7,083,208 =$28,634,050.00

$28,634,050.00: Wolves starters DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy with TSJ and Miller and Minott.


@Shrink there some questions I am not sure of the answer to below this point. I would really appreciate you double checking my facts and math going forward. Thank you in advance.

So Clark was a two way player for 2 years. The first issue is whether that counts as NBA experience. This is complicated by the injury during year 1. Clark was not active for a single game in the 23/24 season. I do not know if he qualifies as 0, 1, or 2 years of experience for an NBA minimum. I am going to assume 2 because the two way rules only allow him 4 total years as a two way. Please correct me if I am wrong (very possible!!!)

$2,296,274: 2 year minimum projected for Clark.

$28,634,050.00 - $2,296,274 =$26,337,776.00

$26,337,776.00: Roster with 9 men.

$1,272,870: project 0 years of experience minimum (2nd round pick.


$26,337,776.00 - $1,272,870 =$25,064,906.00

$25,064,906.00 roster with 10 men including 2nd round pick.

One thing we have not talked about yet is ownerships willingness to pay tax. So far our roster costs

$182,760,094.00 with four/five open spots and is arguably not playoff worthy. This team bench thus far is Clark/TSJ/Minott/Miller/Utah 2nd. 2 of those guys are not allowed to see the floor (Miller and Minott,) and the 2nd is highly unlikely to play. Clark and TSJ are your only true depth at this point. Now let’s keep going.

$5,685,000: Taxpayer MLE.

$25,064,906.00 - $5,685,000 =$19,379,906.00

$19,379,906.00: room remaining to fill 3 roster spots.

Here again Shrink I am gonna ask you to check my math below.

Any vet minimum with 3 plus years of service has the same cap hit. Let’s assume 2 vet minimums

$2,378,870 X 2 =$4,757,740.00.


$19,379,906.00 - $4,757,740.00 =$14,622,166.00

$14,622,166.00: 13 man roster with 2 vet minimums, the full tax payer MLE, Utah 2nd, Clark on a minimum Hinkie, and the above mentioned starting 5 plus the returning 3 bench players.

Now let’s be super generous and assume we can get NAW back cheap. Say 10 million.

$14,622,166.00 - $10,000,000 =$4,622,166.00

$207,825,000 - $4,622,166.00 =$203,202,834.00

$203,202,834.00: Our projected salary with 14 men for next season with NAW back. This is what you are asking Ownership to pay to replace Randle/Naz/Dilly/Mike/Garza and the Pistons 1st with KD. Pardon me if I think this makes the team worse. That tax payer MLE and those 2 minimum players need to cover the backup PG, PF and C positions.

You are pardoned, if you think this team is somehow worse with KD over what we would lose. The math makes it even more obvious.

[winforlose]

Technically that’s 18 million since you’ve already cut Garza, with Naz’s and NAW cap holds still intact. Seems like a really nice cushion to fill out the roster I don’t really see the issue.

$207,825,000: Hard cap number (where the second apron begins.)

$117,399,133: Ant + Rudy + Jaden + DDV

$54,708,609: KD

$117,399,133 + $54,708,609 =$172,107,742.00

$172,107,742.00: Starters with KD

$207,825,000 - $172,107,742 =$35,717,258.00.


$35,717,258.00 How much we have left for 9 players.

$7,083,208: TSJ + Minott + Miller.

$35,717,258 - $7,083,208 =$28,634,050.00

$28,634,050.00: Wolves starters DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy with TSJ and Miller and Minott.


@Shrink there some questions I am not sure of the answer to below this point. I would really appreciate you double checking my facts and math going forward. Thank you in advance.

So Clark was a two way player for 2 years. The first issue is whether that counts as NBA experience. This is complicated by the injury during year 1. Clark was not active for a single game in the 23/24 season. I do not know if he qualifies as 0, 1, or 2 years of experience for an NBA minimum. I am going to assume 2 because the two way rules only allow him 4 total years as a two way. Please correct me if I am wrong (very possible!!!)

$2,296,274: 2 year minimum projected for Clark.

$28,634,050.00 - $2,296,274 =$26,337,776.00

$26,337,776.00: Roster with 9 men.

$1,272,870: project 0 years of experience minimum (2nd round pick.


$26,337,776.00 - $1,272,870 =$25,064,906.00

$25,064,906.00 roster with 10 men including 2nd round pick.

One thing we have not talked about yet is ownerships willingness to pay tax. So far our roster costs

$182,760,094.00 with four/five open spots and is arguably not playoff worthy. This team bench thus far is Clark/TSJ/Minott/Miller/Utah 2nd. 2 of those guys are not allowed to see the floor (Miller and Minott,) and the 2nd is highly unlikely to play. Clark and TSJ are your only true depth at this point. Now let’s keep going.

$5,685,000: Taxpayer MLE.

$25,064,906.00 - $5,685,000 =$19,379,906.00

$19,379,906.00: room remaining to fill 3 roster spots.

Here again Shrink I am gonna ask you to check my math below.

Any vet minimum with 3 plus years of service has the same cap hit. Let’s assume 2 vet minimums

$2,378,870 X 2 =$4,757,740.00.


$19,379,906.00 - $4,757,740.00 =$14,622,166.00

$14,622,166.00: 13 man roster with 2 vet minimums, the full tax payer MLE, Utah 2nd, Clark on a minimum Hinkie, and the above mentioned starting 5 plus the returning 3 bench players.

Now let’s be super generous and assume we can get NAW back cheap. Say 10 million.

$14,622,166.00 - $10,000,000 =$4,622,166.00

$207,825,000 - $4,622,166.00 =$203,202,834.00

$203,202,834.00: Our projected salary with 14 men for next season with NAW back. This is what you are asking Ownership to pay to replace Randle/Naz/Dilly/Mike/Garza and the Pistons 1st with KD. Pardon me if I think this makes the team worse. That tax payer MLE and those 2 minimum players need to cover the backup PG, PF and C positions.

You are pardoned, if you think this team is somehow worse with KD over what we would lose. The math makes it even more obvious.

Losing both Naz and Randle is our entire PF rotation at present. If you plan to play Jaden at backup PF (I have to assume that’s your plan,) then you only have DDV at PG and we lost both our small ball Cs. Assume you fill that in with the MLE, you still have a poorly constructed and dangerously thin roster at PG, PF, and C. Any 2nd round pick is unlikely to play this year, that leaves 2 minimums to fill in all the gaps. You and I obviously have a very different opinion of KD, Naz, and roster building in general.

[Mattya]

$207,825,000: Hard cap number (where the second apron begins.)

$117,399,133: Ant + Rudy + Jaden + DDV

$54,708,609: KD

$117,399,133 + $54,708,609 =$172,107,742.00

$172,107,742.00: Starters with KD

$207,825,000 - $172,107,742 =$35,717,258.00.


$35,717,258.00 How much we have left for 9 players.

$7,083,208: TSJ + Minott + Miller.

$35,717,258 - $7,083,208 =$28,634,050.00

$28,634,050.00: Wolves starters DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy with TSJ and Miller and Minott.


@Shrink there some questions I am not sure of the answer to below this point. I would really appreciate you double checking my facts and math going forward. Thank you in advance.

So Clark was a two way player for 2 years. The first issue is whether that counts as NBA experience. This is complicated by the injury during year 1. Clark was not active for a single game in the 23/24 season. I do not know if he qualifies as 0, 1, or 2 years of experience for an NBA minimum. I am going to assume 2 because the two way rules only allow him 4 total years as a two way. Please correct me if I am wrong (very possible!!!)

$2,296,274: 2 year minimum projected for Clark.

$28,634,050.00 - $2,296,274 =$26,337,776.00

$26,337,776.00: Roster with 9 men.

$1,272,870: project 0 years of experience minimum (2nd round pick.


$26,337,776.00 - $1,272,870 =$25,064,906.00

$25,064,906.00 roster with 10 men including 2nd round pick.

One thing we have not talked about yet is ownerships willingness to pay tax. So far our roster costs

$182,760,094.00 with four/five open spots and is arguably not playoff worthy. This team bench thus far is Clark/TSJ/Minott/Miller/Utah 2nd. 2 of those guys are not allowed to see the floor (Miller and Minott,) and the 2nd is highly unlikely to play. Clark and TSJ are your only true depth at this point. Now let’s keep going.

$5,685,000: Taxpayer MLE.

$25,064,906.00 - $5,685,000 =$19,379,906.00

$19,379,906.00: room remaining to fill 3 roster spots.

Here again Shrink I am gonna ask you to check my math below.

Any vet minimum with 3 plus years of service has the same cap hit. Let’s assume 2 vet minimums

$2,378,870 X 2 =$4,757,740.00.


$19,379,906.00 - $4,757,740.00 =$14,622,166.00

$14,622,166.00: 13 man roster with 2 vet minimums, the full tax payer MLE, Utah 2nd, Clark on a minimum Hinkie, and the above mentioned starting 5 plus the returning 3 bench players.

Now let’s be super generous and assume we can get NAW back cheap. Say 10 million.

$14,622,166.00 - $10,000,000 =$4,622,166.00

$207,825,000 - $4,622,166.00 =$203,202,834.00

$203,202,834.00: Our projected salary with 14 men for next season with NAW back. This is what you are asking Ownership to pay to replace Randle/Naz/Dilly/Mike/Garza and the Pistons 1st with KD. Pardon me if I think this makes the team worse. That tax payer MLE and those 2 minimum players need to cover the backup PG, PF and C positions.

You are pardoned, if you think this team is somehow worse with KD over what we would lose. The math makes it even more obvious.

Losing both Naz and Randle is our entire PF rotation at present. If you plan to play Jaden at backup PF (I have to assume that’s your plan,) then you only have DDV at PG and we lost both our small ball Cs. Assume you fill that in with the MLE, you still have a poorly constructed and dangerously thin roster at PG, PF, and C. Any 2nd round pick is unlikely to play this year, that leaves 2 minimums to fill in all the gaps. You and I obviously have a very different opinion of KD, Naz, and roster building in general.

Why are we losing Naz? lol

[Mattya]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/yearly

We have 190 in active cap, including cap holds. The Boston Celtics after the top 8 of their roster is all contracts under 3 million. I don't know what we have to pay end of the bench guys more just because.

[winforlose]

You are pardoned, if you think this team is somehow worse with KD over what we would lose. The math makes it even more obvious.

Losing both Naz and Randle is our entire PF rotation at present. If you plan to play Jaden at backup PF (I have to assume that’s your plan,) then you only have DDV at PG and we lost both our small ball Cs. Assume you fill that in with the MLE, you still have a poorly constructed and dangerously thin roster at PG, PF, and C. Any 2nd round pick is unlikely to play this year, that leaves 2 minimums to fill in all the gaps. You and I obviously have a very different opinion of KD, Naz, and roster building in general.

Why are we losing Naz? lol

I detailed it above. But, we had $25,064,906.00 of available space before minimum contracts, before the MLE, with Clark and a second resigned. So to help you that gives us

1. KD
2. Ant
3. Rudy
4. Jaden
5. DDV
6. Shannon
7. Minott
8. Miller
9. Clark
10. 2nd round draft pick

With 4 more players required and $25,064,906.00 below the hard cap. Naz has a 15 million dollar option. So let’s assume he opts out, even if he accepts 20 million (highly unlikely,) then. That leave $25,064,906.00 - $20,000,000 =$5,064,906.00 below the hard cap with 3 roster spots that MUST be filled. Signing the cheapest minimum assuming they are not undrafted costs $2,048,494. That is for a player who was on a two way or waived as a rookie. We could sign an undrafted for $1,272,870.

To make the money work best case is signing 2 undrafteds at $1,272,870 x 2 =$2,545,740.00. Then one single year of experience vet at $2,048,494. $2,048,494 + $2,545,740.00 =$4,594,234.00. $5,064,906.00 - $4,594,234.00 =$470,672.00 under the 2nd apron apron with 14 players, and Naz at 20 million. For context your team has 2 undrafted players, a 1 year experience likely former two way, a 2nd round draft pick, Naz, and the other 9 players listed above. That looks more like a G league team than a contender.

[winforlose]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/yearly

We have 190 in active cap, including cap holds. The Boston Celtics after the top 8 of their roster is all contracts under 3 million. I don't know what we have to pay end of the bench guys more just because.

I did the math for you above. I broke down the 4 starters, KD, the 5 together, and then started ading in other players. Boston is an outlier with a better coach and system than us. Trying to replicate their success while playing in the west is… unlikely, to be polite about it. I don’t know that you are factoring in player options in your 190 million comment. But you need to trade the discussed players for KD’s salary next year, and that really hurts. The roster you arrive at is paper thin at PG, PF, C, and over stuffed at SG and SF.

[Loaf_of_bread]

KD isn't wanted here.

[Mattya]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/yearly

We have 190 in active cap, including cap holds. The Boston Celtics after the top 8 of their roster is all contracts under 3 million. I don't know what we have to pay end of the bench guys more just because.

I did the math for you above. I broke down the 4 starters, KD, the 5 together, and then started ading in other players. Boston is an outlier with a better coach and system than us. Trying to replicate their success while playing in the west is… unlikely, to be polite about it. I don’t know that you are factoring in player options in your 190 million comment. But you need to trade the discussed players for KD’s salary next year, and that really hurts. The roster you arrive at is paper thin at PG, PF, C, and over stuffed at SG and SF.

The math is very clear in the link. Player options and cap holds are included.

[winforlose]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/yearly

We have 190 in active cap, including cap holds. The Boston Celtics after the top 8 of their roster is all contracts under 3 million. I don't know what we have to pay end of the bench guys more just because.

I did the math for you above. I broke down the 4 starters, KD, the 5 together, and then started ading in other players. Boston is an outlier with a better coach and system than us. Trying to replicate their success while playing in the west is… unlikely, to be polite about it. I don’t know that you are factoring in player options in your 190 million comment. But you need to trade the discussed players for KD’s salary next year, and that really hurts. The roster you arrive at is paper thin at PG, PF, C, and over stuffed at SG and SF.

The math is very clear in the link. Player options and cap holds are included.

I am confused, are we discussing the KD trade or not? You gave me specific parameters, (Conley, Randle, Dilly, Det 1st out, KD in.) I added KD’s 54 into the remaining salaries and did a lot of work above to show you the financial picture. We are hard capped at the 2nd apron because of aggregation. The cliff notes is you add Ant, Jaden, Rudy, DDV, and KD together to arrive at $172,107,742. Remembering the hard cap is 207 and change (seen the post above,) you must construct the rest of the roster and stay below the hard cap. I broke it all done very cleanly for you. I don’t know how to have this conversation without agreeing on the numbers, and I don’t know how to spell them out any more clearly. I literally went line by line so please review it and ask any questions you have based on it. I am honestly not trying to be adversarial at all, I genuinely want to have this conversation based on real numbers, and I prepared them so we can.

[life_saver]

Is there a limit on the maximum amount Wolves can offer Naz if they wanna sign him for extension ?

[winforlose]

Is there a limit on the maximum amount Wolves can offer Naz if they wanna sign him for extension ?

Yes. Naz is set to make $15,022,464 if he opts in. Then according to Shrink he can get a 40% raise with 8% annual after that. So $6,008,985.6 is a 40% raise. $21,031,449.6 In 26/27 is the best we can pay him. Plus he has to spend 25/26 year 15 million.

[Mattya]

I did the math for you above. I broke down the 4 starters, KD, the 5 together, and then started ading in other players. Boston is an outlier with a better coach and system than us. Trying to replicate their success while playing in the west is… unlikely, to be polite about it. I don’t know that you are factoring in player options in your 190 million comment. But you need to trade the discussed players for KD’s salary next year, and that really hurts. The roster you arrive at is paper thin at PG, PF, C, and over stuffed at SG and SF.

The math is very clear in the link. Player options and cap holds are included.

I am confused, are we discussing the KD trade or not? You gave me specific parameters, (Conley, Randle, Dilly, Det 1st out, KD in.) I added KD’s 54 into the remaining salaries and did a lot of work above to show you the financial picture. We are hard capped at the 2nd apron because of aggregation. The cliff notes is you add Ant, Jaden, Rudy, DDV, and KD together to arrive at $172,107,742. Remembering the hard cap is 207 and change (seen the post above,) you must construct the rest of the roster and stay below the hard cap. I broke it all done very cleanly for you. I don’t know how to have this conversation without agreeing on the numbers, and I don’t know how to spell them out any more clearly. I literally went line by line so please review it and ask any questions you have based on it. I am honestly not trying to be adversarial at all, I genuinely want to have this conversation based on real numbers, and I prepared them so we can.

What is the confusion? How much do you think Naz is even getting if you think we can't afford him and fill the team with vet minimums? Why do we care how much the guys that will never play unless there are injuries make? This is why having guys that clearly look like they can play in Clark and TSJ on cheap contracts.

If Naz gets 20 million per season, TSJ, Clark, Miller and a second rounder make 10-11, then that still leaves 6-7 million to fill out the roster with 4 minimum salary players. That is one 3.0 million dollar vet minimum contract of which Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, Monte Morris, Kevin Porter Jr and Jordan McClaughlin all make that or less. With 3 more minimum contracts. Im just not seeing this issue.

[winforlose]

The math is very clear in the link. Player options and cap holds are included.

I am confused, are we discussing the KD trade or not? You gave me specific parameters, (Conley, Randle, Dilly, Det 1st out, KD in.) I added KD’s 54 into the remaining salaries and did a lot of work above to show you the financial picture. We are hard capped at the 2nd apron because of aggregation. The cliff notes is you add Ant, Jaden, Rudy, DDV, and KD together to arrive at $172,107,742. Remembering the hard cap is 207 and change (seen the post above,) you must construct the rest of the roster and stay below the hard cap. I broke it all done very cleanly for you. I don’t know how to have this conversation without agreeing on the numbers, and I don’t know how to spell them out any more clearly. I literally went line by line so please review it and ask any questions you have based on it. I am honestly not trying to be adversarial at all, I genuinely want to have this conversation based on real numbers, and I prepared them so we can.

What is the confusion? How much do you think Naz is even getting if you think we can't afford him and fill the team with vet minimums? Why do we care how much the guys that will never play unless there are injuries make? This is why having guys that clearly look like they can play in Clark and TSJ on cheap contracts.

If Naz gets 20 million per season, TSJ, Clark, Miller and a second rounder make 10-11, then that still leaves 6-7 million to fill out the roster with 4 minimum salary players. That is one 3.0 million dollar vet minimum contract of which Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, Monte Morris, Kevin Porter Jr and Jordan McClaughlin all make that or less. With 3 more minimum contracts. Im just not seeing this issue.

This is the starters plus Minott/Miller/Shannon: $179,190,950. Add 20 million to that $20,000,000 + $179,190,950 =$199,190,950.00. Before the 2nd rounder that leaves $207,825,000 - $199,190,950.00 =$8,634,050.00. That has to sign the 2nd and fill 4 more spots. There is no Tyus Jones for that money. You would need to start getting into the 3+ years of experience vet minimums, and as I already explained in a different reply we cannot afford it.

You are talking about having 2 undrafted rookies, a high 2nd, a minimum with 1 year of experience, and Clark.

Starters DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy
2nd string Clark/Shannon/Minott/Naz/Miller
3rd string is a high 2nd, two undrafted players and a failed two way from last year. The last 4 are probably unplayable, and Naz is the only backup C you have. Your PG depth is more myth than real with non true PG on the team. This is a team that is substantially more likely than our current team to get bounced in the first round.

Oh, and you have to get Naz to stay and play off the bench for 20 million when teams will offer him more.

[Mattya]

I am confused, are we discussing the KD trade or not? You gave me specific parameters, (Conley, Randle, Dilly, Det 1st out, KD in.) I added KD’s 54 into the remaining salaries and did a lot of work above to show you the financial picture. We are hard capped at the 2nd apron because of aggregation. The cliff notes is you add Ant, Jaden, Rudy, DDV, and KD together to arrive at $172,107,742. Remembering the hard cap is 207 and change (seen the post above,) you must construct the rest of the roster and stay below the hard cap. I broke it all done very cleanly for you. I don’t know how to have this conversation without agreeing on the numbers, and I don’t know how to spell them out any more clearly. I literally went line by line so please review it and ask any questions you have based on it. I am honestly not trying to be adversarial at all, I genuinely want to have this conversation based on real numbers, and I prepared them so we can.

What is the confusion? How much do you think Naz is even getting if you think we can't afford him and fill the team with vet minimums? Why do we care how much the guys that will never play unless there are injuries make? This is why having guys that clearly look like they can play in Clark and TSJ on cheap contracts.

If Naz gets 20 million per season, TSJ, Clark, Miller and a second rounder make 10-11, then that still leaves 6-7 million to fill out the roster with 4 minimum salary players. That is one 3.0 million dollar vet minimum contract of which Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, Monte Morris, Kevin Porter Jr and Jordan McClaughlin all make that or less. With 3 more minimum contracts. Im just not seeing this issue.

This is the starters plus Minott/Miller/Shannon: $179,190,950. Add 20 million to that $20,000,000 + $179,190,950 =$199,190,950.00. Before the 2nd rounder that leaves $207,825,000 - $199,190,950.00 =$8,634,050.00. That has to sign the 2nd and fill 4 more spots. There is no Tyus Jones for that money. You would need to start getting into the 3+ years of experience vet minimums, and as I already explained in a different reply we cannot afford it.

You are talking about having 2 undrafted rookies, a high 2nd, a minimum with 1 year of experience, and Clark.

Starters DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy
2nd string Clark/Shannon/Minott/Naz/Miller
3rd string is a high 2nd, two undrafted players and a failed two way from last year. The last 4 are probably unplayable, and Naz is the only backup C you have. Your PG depth is more myth than real with non true PG on the team. This is a team that is substantially more likely than our current team to get bounced in the first round.

Oh, and you have to get Naz to stay and play off the bench for 20 million when teams will offer him more.

We can only pay him 21 according to you, so "teams" offering him more would happen if we traded for KD or not. So I'm not seeing the problem. TSJ and Clark both look ready to contribute anyway why do i care if they are rookies or inexperienced players? Some of these minutes you are worried about are currently going to guys like Josh Minott who has average 8 minutes over 33 games. If these are the players we are worried about contributing then you have failed.

bolded, absolutely not

[shrink]

Is there a limit on the maximum amount Wolves can offer Naz if they wanna sign him for extension ?

Yes. Naz is set to make $15,022,464 if he opts in. Then according to Shrink he can get a 40% raise with 8% annual after that. So $6,008,985.6 is a 40% raise. $21,031,449.6 In 26/27 is the best we can pay him. Plus he has to spend 25/26 year 15 million.

Which is why he likely won’t pick up his player option. With his Bird rights, we can offer a new 2025 contract at any number.

[winforlose]

What is the confusion? How much do you think Naz is even getting if you think we can't afford him and fill the team with vet minimums? Why do we care how much the guys that will never play unless there are injuries make? This is why having guys that clearly look like they can play in Clark and TSJ on cheap contracts.

If Naz gets 20 million per season, TSJ, Clark, Miller and a second rounder make 10-11, then that still leaves 6-7 million to fill out the roster with 4 minimum salary players. That is one 3.0 million dollar vet minimum contract of which Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, Monte Morris, Kevin Porter Jr and Jordan McClaughlin all make that or less. With 3 more minimum contracts. Im just not seeing this issue.

This is the starters plus Minott/Miller/Shannon: $179,190,950. Add 20 million to that $20,000,000 + $179,190,950 =$199,190,950.00. Before the 2nd rounder that leaves $207,825,000 - $199,190,950.00 =$8,634,050.00. That has to sign the 2nd and fill 4 more spots. There is no Tyus Jones for that money. You would need to start getting into the 3+ years of experience vet minimums, and as I already explained in a different reply we cannot afford it.

You are talking about having 2 undrafted rookies, a high 2nd, a minimum with 1 year of experience, and Clark.

Starters DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy
2nd string Clark/Shannon/Minott/Naz/Miller
3rd string is a high 2nd, two undrafted players and a failed two way from last year. The last 4 are probably unplayable, and Naz is the only backup C you have. Your PG depth is more myth than real with non true PG on the team. This is a team that is substantially more likely than our current team to get bounced in the first round.

Oh, and you have to get Naz to stay and play off the bench for 20 million when teams will offer him more.

We can only pay him 21 according to you, so "teams" offering him more would happen if we traded for KD or not. So I'm not seeing the problem. TSJ and Clark both look ready to contribute anyway why do i care if they are rookies or inexperienced players? Some of these minutes you are worried about are currently going to guys like Josh Minott who has average 8 minutes over 33 games. If these are the players we are worried about contributing then you have failed.

bolded, absolutely not

1. Finch won’t even play Miller and Minott.

2. This roster lacks a true PG and a backup C.

3. Clark is showing his defense is legit, but his offense is not always there. TSJ stepping into NAW’s role without a proven 3 is tough. You are losing Mike, NAW, and Randle out right (3 of our current top 8,) and replacing them with KD, Clark, and TSJ. Give Naz 21 and you have $7,634,050.00 to sign Clark and 4 other players. Clark costs $2,296,274. This leaves $5,337,776 to sign 4 guys. The cheapest undrafted costs the same as the 2nd which is
$1,272,870 x4 =$5,091,480.00. So now we have 3 undrafted players, a high 2nd on a Hinkie, and Miller and Minott.

4. What is the plan for injuries? You have put 6 guys on the roster Finch does not want to use. Are you hoping the other 8 players all 82 regular season games plus the playoffs? What happens when KD misses 20 games and Rudy misses 10? You are stripping out all the depth and leaving a broken roster with no PG, no backup C, and forcing Jaden to spend real minutes at PF without NAW to pick up the slack on POA defense. The roster just doesn’t work.

[Mattya]

This is the starters plus Minott/Miller/Shannon: $179,190,950. Add 20 million to that $20,000,000 + $179,190,950 =$199,190,950.00. Before the 2nd rounder that leaves $207,825,000 - $199,190,950.00 =$8,634,050.00. That has to sign the 2nd and fill 4 more spots. There is no Tyus Jones for that money. You would need to start getting into the 3+ years of experience vet minimums, and as I already explained in a different reply we cannot afford it.

You are talking about having 2 undrafted rookies, a high 2nd, a minimum with 1 year of experience, and Clark.

Starters DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy
2nd string Clark/Shannon/Minott/Naz/Miller
3rd string is a high 2nd, two undrafted players and a failed two way from last year. The last 4 are probably unplayable, and Naz is the only backup C you have. Your PG depth is more myth than real with non true PG on the team. This is a team that is substantially more likely than our current team to get bounced in the first round.

Oh, and you have to get Naz to stay and play off the bench for 20 million when teams will offer him more.

We can only pay him 21 according to you, so "teams" offering him more would happen if we traded for KD or not. So I'm not seeing the problem. TSJ and Clark both look ready to contribute anyway why do i care if they are rookies or inexperienced players? Some of these minutes you are worried about are currently going to guys like Josh Minott who has average 8 minutes over 33 games. If these are the players we are worried about contributing then you have failed.

bolded, absolutely not

1. Finch won’t even play Miller and Minott.

2. This roster lacks a true PG and a backup C.

3. Clark is showing his defense is legit, but his offense is not always there. TSJ stepping into NAW’s role without a proven 3 is tough. You are losing Mike, NAW, and Randle out right (3 of our current top 8,) and replacing them with KD, Clark, and TSJ. Give Naz 21 and you have $7,634,050.00 to sign Clark and 4 other players. Clark costs $2,296,274. This leaves $5,337,776 to sign 4 guys. The cheapest undrafted costs the same as the 2nd which is
$1,272,870 x4 =$5,091,480.00. So now we have 3 undrafted players, a high 2nd on a Hinkie, and Miller and Minott.

4. What is the plan for injuries? You have put 6 guys on the roster Finch does not want to use. Are you hoping the other 8 players all 82 regular season games plus the playoffs? What happens when KD misses 20 games and Rudy misses 10? You are stripping out all the depth and leaving a broken roster with no PG, no backup C, and forcing Jaden to spend real minutes at PF without NAW to pick up the slack on POA defense. The roster just doesn’t work.

1. That is kind of the point? Why do we care about those players in the rotation? They are the ones who play when injuries come up. That is it.

2. This team played some of its best when DDV was starting. He averaged 4.1 assists with this offensive deplete roster compared to tru point guard Mike Conley’s 4.6 in. 4 less minutes. Not a significant difference.

3 and 4. See 1. Everything you are concerned with is currently the same issue with the current roster.

[winforlose]

We can only pay him 21 according to you, so "teams" offering him more would happen if we traded for KD or not. So I'm not seeing the problem. TSJ and Clark both look ready to contribute anyway why do i care if they are rookies or inexperienced players? Some of these minutes you are worried about are currently going to guys like Josh Minott who has average 8 minutes over 33 games. If these are the players we are worried about contributing then you have failed.

bolded, absolutely not

1. Finch won’t even play Miller and Minott.

2. This roster lacks a true PG and a backup C.

3. Clark is showing his defense is legit, but his offense is not always there. TSJ stepping into NAW’s role without a proven 3 is tough. You are losing Mike, NAW, and Randle out right (3 of our current top 8,) and replacing them with KD, Clark, and TSJ. Give Naz 21 and you have $7,634,050.00 to sign Clark and 4 other players. Clark costs $2,296,274. This leaves $5,337,776 to sign 4 guys. The cheapest undrafted costs the same as the 2nd which is
$1,272,870 x4 =$5,091,480.00. So now we have 3 undrafted players, a high 2nd on a Hinkie, and Miller and Minott.

4. What is the plan for injuries? You have put 6 guys on the roster Finch does not want to use. Are you hoping the other 8 players all 82 regular season games plus the playoffs? What happens when KD misses 20 games and Rudy misses 10? You are stripping out all the depth and leaving a broken roster with no PG, no backup C, and forcing Jaden to spend real minutes at PF without NAW to pick up the slack on POA defense. The roster just doesn’t work.

1. That is kind of the point? Why do we care about those players in the rotation? They are the ones who play when injuries come up. That is it.

2. This team played some of its best when DDV was starting. He averaged 4.1 assists with this offensive deplete roster compared to tru point guard Mike Conley’s 4.6 in. 4 less minutes. Not a significant difference.

3 and 4. See 1. Everything you are concerned with is currently the same issue with the current roster.

1. For a chunk of the season we played 8.5 deep. Usually it was the top 8 plus Minott or Dilly. When injuries happened we got to 9-11. You must expect injuries to happen, and who is in those later spots matters a lot. You would trade the relative depth of Clark, TSJ, and Dilly 9-11, for a high 2nd and two undrafted players. Or you are betting on Finch leaning on Miller and Minott, which is itself an unsafe bet. Either way, there is a quality slide here.

2. DDV also turns it over more than Mike, and is better at catching and shoot than running the offense. It is harder for the table setter than for the person having the table set for them. Mike is also smarter than DDV and better at organizing the offense in the key moments.

3. Let’s dive deeper here. Say DDV gets hurt, your next move is Point Ant. Then what? Who backs up Ant and runs the offense? Also remember Ant hates playing Point and is often blitzed to get the ball out of his hands. You really want a high 2nd or an undrafted in that position? Or do you just not believe PG play is important.

4. Say Rudy goes down, now you are starting Naz at the 5. Jaden goes down and TSJ is your starting 3. God help us if two or more guys have to miss a game. Clark is a SG, TSJ is a SF, and Naz is SF/PF. You can try and force guys to play out of position but without at least one competent backup behind them you make the whole rotation worse trying to fill in. At least now we have Mike, Dilly, and NAW who can play passable PG. Without that your stuck in ISO Durant, ISO Ant, and Jaden and Naz for themselves. KD is just not that much better than Naz to be worth trading this much talent and flexibility for. Especially with KD at 37.

[Neeva]

Let old ass KD sign with the wolves (if he really wants to play with Ant) for his swan song in a few years, giving up young assets for him that are vital to compete during Ant’s prime will be absolutely asinine. The wolves are lacking assets as it stands, lets not make it worse , the wolves are not a aging Durant away from a title.

[Neeva]

What can wolves get for NAW in sign and trades? How about Knecht and a second or two?