Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[Klomp]

Everything should be viewed under the lens of "as a road to championship".

Nope, there is no road. You already said every move must be judged as championship or bust. Five years down the road doesn't matter. Next year doesn't matter. If it doesn't result in a championship this year, it s a failure.

[winforlose]

Everything should be viewed under the lens of "as a road to championship".

Nope, there is no road. You already said every move must be judged as championship or bust. Five years down the road doesn't matter. Next year doesn't matter. If it doesn't result in a championship this year, it s a failure.

You keep trying to take what people say, ignore the context, and then extend their position to illogical extremes. Trading young and useful players for an older player who is expiring is a very specific type of move. It is a short term profit for long term cost move. You know this is true because most NBA players don’t play at 39 or 40, and those that do play that long don’t often play at a high level. Assuming of course KD stays that long. What is the value of a short term all in move without a championship aspiration? How does getting a good older player at the expense of vital young player talent (a 2025 first, Dilly on a rookie scale, NAW pre prime,) help us in 3 years, when Ant, Naz, and Jaden, are all in their primes?

[Klomp]

Everything should be viewed under the lens of "as a road to championship".

Nope, there is no road. You already said every move must be judged as championship or bust. Five years down the road doesn't matter. Next year doesn't matter. If it doesn't result in a championship this year, it s a failure.

You keep trying to take what people say, ignore the context, and then extend their position to illogical extremes. Trading young and useful players for an older player who is expiring is a very specific type of move. It is a short term profit for long term cost move. You know this is true because most NBA players don’t play at 39 or 40, and those that do last that long don’t often play at a high level. What is the value of a short term all in move without a championship aspiration? How does getting a good older player at the expense of vital young player talent (a 2025 first, Dilly on a rookie scale, NAW pre prime,) help us in 3 years?

Again, I don't view every move with an immediacy of championship or bust. That's how trades like Luka to LA happen: Because Luka in Dallas was clearly a failure since it didn't net a championship.

And also again, not all old players are the same. You seem to have this mindset tat because Durant is 37, he will turn into Kevin Willis when the clock strikes midnight. Kevin Durant has one of the most aging-friendly skillsets of all-time.

Also, a move like this is about more than just Durant. It's about Ant too. It's about surrounding Ant with elite complementary players who can help elevate Ant's game to yet another level. You might be waiting 5-10 years for Dillingham to hopefully maybe have that kind of an impact on Ant, if ever.

[winforlose]

Nope, there is no road. You already said every move must be judged as championship or bust. Five years down the road doesn't matter. Next year doesn't matter. If it doesn't result in a championship this year, it s a failure.

You keep trying to take what people say, ignore the context, and then extend their position to illogical extremes. Trading young and useful players for an older player who is expiring is a very specific type of move. It is a short term profit for long term cost move. You know this is true because most NBA players don’t play at 39 or 40, and those that do last that long don’t often play at a high level. What is the value of a short term all in move without a championship aspiration? How does getting a good older player at the expense of vital young player talent (a 2025 first, Dilly on a rookie scale, NAW pre prime,) help us in 3 years?

Again, I don't view every move with an immediacy of championship or bust. That's how trades like Luka to LA happen: Because Luka in Dallas was clearly a failure since it didn't net a championship.

And also again, not all old players are the same. You seem to have this mindset tat because Durant is 37, he will turn into Kevin Willis when the clock strikes midnight. Kevin Durant has one of the most aging-friendly skillsets of all-time.

Also, a move like this is about more than just Durant. It's about Ant too. It's about surrounding Ant with elite complementary players who can help elevate Ant's game to yet another level. You might be waiting 5-10 years for Dillingham to hopefully maybe have that kind of an impact on Ant, if ever.

1. Trades like Luka to LA are obviously corrupt. You never see a team say I don’t want the best possible return on my superstar. They never I will take less picks and player talent so the player doesn’t find out we are shopping him. To your larger point, the Lakers gave up an older and injured KD to get a young superstar who is gonna build out there franchise. The Mavs gave up a young superstar who is already top 5 in the league for an older and often injured KD. Not really the parallel you want to draw.

2. Aging friendly is great, it is also a high risk. Everything in future deals is risk/reward. When you consolidate player talent to try and acquire top players you look at the long term consequences. LAL says they would not include a 2nd first because they feared Luka would leave. Well, you have that same risk in an expiring Durant. He also is not likely to have as much resale value at 38 if things don’t work out in year 1. He doesn’t have to suck to underperform his contract, and you keep refusing to tell me how many years you think he will be here?

3. There are plenty of bad lessons for Ant to learn from KD to. KD who left OKC to go be carried by Steph. Who left GSW to go and try and form a super team in Brooklyn. KD who pushed hard to get Harden, and when things didn’t work out demanded out of Brooklyn. Shrink hit the nail on the head when he talked about Ant wanting to be here. Getting KD in and having him spend time with Ant explaining why he should not stay and bring glory here, but rather leave and chase glory out there is bad for us long term. So is not having more talented players in key positions in 27/28 when the young core is primed and ready to try and win something.

[Klomp]

It would be a horrible death sentence for the franchise to trade for this guy. All he obviously cares about is money and chasing glory, clearly.

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

It would be a horrible death sentence for the franchise to trade for this guy. All he obviously cares about is money and chasing glory, clearly.

Read on Twitter

Left OKC to join the warriors. Left the Warriors to build a super team with the Nets. Left the Nets to go to a solid Suns team that was already near the top of the standings. Didn’t want to go back to GSW this year when they are struggling. We can either trust 5 minutes of a scripted documentary or his entire career. But sure, let’s give up even more young player talent and draft capital chasing a shiny new player who might make a difference for a year or two.

[shrink]

It would be a horrible death sentence for the franchise to trade for this guy. All he obviously cares about is money and chasing glory, clearly.

Read on Twitter

You can see why this guy would love Ant.

[Klomp]

Free agency is a player's right. Are you going to demand that Julius Randle owes us to sign a new contract this summer even though he is a free agent?

[Klomp]

We can either trust 5 minutes of a scripted documentary or his entire career.

You don't know the definition of scripted.

[shrink]

The way the CBA does this is unnecessarily confusing to me.

This brings up another point: A lot of people are confused by the CBA's legalese. Even "cap experts" who are paid the big bucks by ESPN have gotten things wrong and misinterpreted a line or two over the last year.

Which brings up something else: It wouldn't be surprising if language is cleaned up and some restrictions and penalties are softened.

Right. Whenever a new CBA drops, despite the NBA’s best efforts, 30 brilliant GM’s tear into it to try to find its weaknesses, and we often see unintended consequences. I’m sure the makers of the CBA thought they had closed all the doors for second apron teams to add payroll, besides re-signing your own free agents and vet min deals. Tim Connelly immediately found a third way, trading for a first round pick that added $6.5 mil. In the Towns trade, the Knicks GM realized that they closed the door on adding multiple vet mins to salary match, so they resigned their guys to vet min salaries plus a single dollar to make them eligible.

Fortunately, the CBA has mechanisms so the league doesn’t have to wait a full seven years for the ratification of a new CBA. The league can make minor changes “for the good of the league.” I would expect a couple of the first aprons restrictions will be moved to the second apron (particular salary aggregation, which would help us with a KD trade). But who knows? As always, when a new CBA was revealed, experts say it is so restrictive it will kill trades. However, we still had an active trade deadline this year. Teams find a way.

[winforlose]

We can either trust 5 minutes of a scripted documentary or his entire career.

You don't know the definition of scripted.

Please tell me you’re not the guy who thinks reality tv is really unscripted and authentic?

[Note30]

I'm sick of this but we got to the WCF nonsense. Just because we have sucked and will continue to suck doesn't mean we should accept table scraps.

So being one of the four best teams in the league is now table scraps?

For one season. Yeah. It absolutely **** is.

[Note30]

Everything should be viewed under the lens of "as a road to championship".

Nope, there is no road. You already said every move must be judged as championship or bust. Five years down the road doesn't matter. Next year doesn't matter. If it doesn't result in a championship this year, it s a failure.

In our situation yes. Every move is championship or bust.

If we had all of our assets and cap flexibility then it would be a road. Because you have more big moves and potential talent to make grow.

The Spurs right now are making moves on the road to championship and in their situation potentially a dynasty.

We're kicking the can down the road after having one our most successful seasons ever to maybe we can make it back to the WCF. And even then we're plumb out of assets and some of our young guys are too early to be dependent on.

I don't know what your fascination is with defending the FO. You never take an opposing view towards them.

[winforlose]

Everything should be viewed under the lens of "as a road to championship".

Nope, there is no road. You already said every move must be judged as championship or bust. Five years down the road doesn't matter. Next year doesn't matter. If it doesn't result in a championship this year, it s a failure.

In our situation yes. Every move is championship or bust.

If we had all of our assets and cap flexibility then it would be a road. Because you have more big moves and potential talent to make grow.

The Spurs right now are making moves on the road to championship and in their situation potentially a dynasty.

We're kicking the can down the road after having one our most successful seasons ever to maybe we can make it back to the WCF. And even then we're plumb out of assets and some of our young guys are too early to be dependent on.

I don't know what your fascination is with defending the FO. You never take an opposing view towards them.

We are definitely not in the Spurs situation. We have not been since trading for Rudy. We bet big and lost, but that doesn’t mean we are out of the game. We bide our time, wait for the right hand and then get back what we lost. Losing Karl hurt, going all in for KD is kind of move that could bust us.

[Klomp]

The Spurs right now are making moves on the road to championship and in their situation potentially a dynasty.

And yet, they supposedly ruined it all by adding 39-year old Chris Paul.

[Klomp]

I don't know what your fascination is with defending the FO. You never take an opposing view towards them.

What move am I defending right now? No move has happened. I'm just not looking at any and all potential moves through a closed-mindedness.

[minimus]

I will say it again: on paper aging KD at PF is an ideal fit next to Gobert. But also he is an ideal fit next to McDaniels. Also he is a good friend of Edwards. Also he could make much more enjoyable our offense without a true PG.

But. I would not trade neither Reid nor McDaniels to get KD.

[winforlose]

The Spurs right now are making moves on the road to championship and in their situation potentially a dynasty.

And yet, they supposedly ruined it all by adding 39-year old Chris Paul.

Let’s be clear, they signed Chris Paul for $10,460,000. If KD wants the full MLE to come to Minnesota in 26/27 sign me up. But there is a difference between signing an aging vet with mentor purposes (Mike Conley,) and trading multiple young players and picks for him. Also KD making 54 million and CP3 making 10.4 is noteworthy.

[shrink]

Am I crazy to see similarities between Kevin Durant and Naz?

[Domejandro]

An area of frustration I have with the conversation is that I don't think anybody is advocating trading for Kevin Durant at the expense of Jaden McDaniels or Naz Reid. I think a lot of it would depend on Naz Reid's willingness to pick up his Player Option and extend

Kevin Durant, Anthony Edwards, Rudy Gobert, and Jaden McDaniels is $160,117,742 of salary. Add Donte DiVincenzo (in the ridiculous hypothetical where he isn't needed in the trade), and Minnesota is up to $172,107,742.

With the starting five set, Minnesota would have $35,717,258 to fill out the roster (obviously becomes closer to $47MM with Donte DiVincenzo going out, but operating as if he is kept). Add Terrence Shannon Jr. and Jaylen Clark, and it is around $31 million. That is plenty of room to fill 7-8 roster spots. If Naz accepted picking up his Player Option, there would be ~$16MM to fill 6-7 roster spots.

Donte DiVincenzo /
Anthony Edwards / Jaylen Clark
Jaden McDaniels / Terrence Shannon Jr.
Kevin Durant / Naz Reid
Rudy Gobert /

With ~$16MM to fill the gaps. The taxpayer MLE is projected to be set at $5,685,000, which First Apron teams can use.


My view is that it is completely possible to build out that roster with the remaining funds. If Naz is unwilling to take his Player-Option (which is what I would expect!), then you likely have to reevaluate. I also think that, in reality, Donte DiVincenzo would be traded in a deal for Kevin Durant, which would shake-up how we are looking at the salary situation. That said, operating under the most brutal salary situation, the team would be a bit thin, but infinitely better than it is now.