[Hoopshype] The 78 greatest defensive players in NBA history

[CIN-C-STAR]

Pat Beverley has no place on this list.
I’d take Jrue Holiday, Derrick White or Danny Green over him, among others.

[Dan Z]

list is wack,
Jordan will always be overrated in these.
Some weird ones like Havlicek over LeBron/Kobe/Butler/AK47

imagine Havlicek having to check KD, KD will get 80.
Jru should be way way up.

You can't really judge players outside of the era they played.

Otherwise you get into details that can't really be answered. For example, how would today's players fair with rules where defense is allowed do to more?

[KGtabake]

How is Giannis ahead of Kawhi?

Because he's better.

[YogurtProducer]

How is Giannis ahead of Kawhi?

Because he's better.

Maybe today, but prime Kawhi was easily better than prime Giannis

[Masigond]

Not the worst take of that list, but Shaq is way too high. He could be a great defender when he committed to play defense. But a guy who prides himself of not having been posterized that often, which he managed by not contesting opponent players driving to the basket, often simply did not play defense.
I have more respect for a guy like Shawn Bradley who was made a laughing stock for being posterized over and over again. At least he tried.

[KGtabake]

How is Giannis ahead of Kawhi?

Because he's better.

Maybe today, but prime Kawhi was easily better than prime Giannis

Giannis today is coasting on defense.
Nobody was better than prime Giannis.
Could guard 1-5, could guard one on one and be one of the best(if not the best) help defenders in history.

[Big J]

MJ below Dwight & Gobert is a joke.

[gipper08]

Draymond way too high. He cant guard anyone elite. (But he plays great d on anyone else)

Jordan too low.

[brackdan70]

List seems fine. You can certainly quibble about the order. I think it’s a bit biased towards more recent players but not bad.

[NZB2323]

Not the worst take of that list, but Shaq is way too high. He could be a great defender when he committed to play defense. But a guy who prides himself of not having been posterized that often, which he managed by not contesting opponent players driving to the basket, often simply did not play defense.
I have more respect for a guy like Shawn Bradley who was made a laughing stock for being posterized over and over again. At least he tried.

Yeah, and Shaq’s pick and roll defense wasn’t the best. And Larry Bird being on this list is silly.

[tmorgan]

I think the important thing to remember about these kinds of lists is that they tend to judge ACTUAL defense played, not potential defense played (which is more like a scouting report).

Could Shaq play great D when he wanted to? Sure. But he didn’t.
Once Kobe turned about 25, his game-to-game defensive effort dropped off dramatically in the regular season. Same for Mike, a little later.

The guys that gave 100% effort all the time for their whole career end up higher than you expect them to be, often also because they had fewer offensive responsibilities — Ben Wallace, Bobby Jones, Tony Allen, those types.

It’s a pretty good list, all things considered.

[Mogspan]

Not the worst list...I'd say that got a lot of the right people. The ranking itself makes little sense. Wilt at 11? Really? If it's about peak, Mookie is way off. Career? well anyway.

Wilt was a monster defensive player, arguably better on that end than on offense.

[Ritzo]

MJ at 15 and Kawhi at 19? I can name a lot of NBA stars being locked up by Kawhi in a series, I can't name a single star being locked up by MJ.

[Doctor MJ]

Because he's better.

Maybe today, but prime Kawhi was easily better than prime Giannis

Giannis today is coasting on defense.
Nobody was better than prime Giannis.
Could guard 1-5, could guard one on one and be one of the best(if not the best) help defenders in history.

It hurts me to see a Celtic fan say this, let alone one with "KG" in their handle.

Guys like Russell & KG were basketball savants not just physical marvels.

[Doctor MJ]

I think the important thing to remember about these kinds of lists is that they tend to judge ACTUAL defense played, not potential defense played (which is more like a scouting report).

Could Shaq play great D when he wanted to? Sure. But he didn’t.
Once Kobe turned about 25, his game-to-game defensive effort dropped off dramatically in the regular season. Same for Mike, a little later.

The guys that gave 100% effort all the time for their whole career end up higher than you expect them to be, often also because they had fewer offensive responsibilities — Ben Wallace, Bobby Jones, Tony Allen, those types.

It’s a pretty good list, all things considered.

If they were going by Kobe's actual game-to-game defensive effort in his career, he'd have no place anywhere on the list.

[Doctor MJ]

These lists are generally trash because historically a guard can't touch the defensive impact a big man has. Bruce Bowen, Tony Allen, MJ and Gary Payton above Anthony Davis? Wrong. Tony Allen averaged 22 MPG across his career. No freaking way should he be ranked 22. He didn't play enough to have that impact.
Centers and PFs > SFs > SGs > PGs. The list should more heavily reflect that.

In general this is a thing that just makes these lists such a challenge. A list completely dominated by 78 bigs probably gets no clicks, so they're trying to do some hand-wavy thing which slips perimeter guys in without it seeming too egregious.

For that reason I'm generally not going to knock them for including perimeter guys...but will knock them depending on the perimeter guys they pick.

[Doctor MJ]

So just to put something down myself rather than just being critical of their list, if I take my own personal DPOY shares without trying to do anything more sophisticated such as factoring in era difficulty, here's the top of my list:

1. Bill Russell
2. Wilt Chamberlain
(tie) George Mikan
4. Hakeem Olajuwon
5. David Robinson
6. Draymond Green
7. Tim Duncan
8. Mark Eaton
(tie) LeBron James
10. Dennis Johnson
(tie) Nate Thurmond

Brief notes:

- Nate Thurmond is hurt considerably by playing in an era with Russell & Wilt (and Wilt is getting hurt by playing with Russell & Nate for that matter).

- To be clear I definitely would not consider Mikan to be a top tier defender in later eras, but his defensive dominance when he played was a big deal.

- Yup, I have Draymond as the top defender from this era.

- I actually do consider KG to be a more talented defender than Duncan, but his Minny career holds back his accomplishment compared to someone like Duncan who just in the perfect spot.

- Eaton was absolutely a GOAT tier defensive player for an era where players didn't shoot from the perimeter. Now I don't think he'd stick in the NBA. (By contrast, I think Mikan would at least be a starter-level player.)

- Yup, I have LeBron as the GOAT non-big defender by career.

- DJ's inclusion is weird. There's just this era between Walton & Eaton where there's a massive dearth of elite defensive bigs. Were I to rank actual impact, DJ would certainly be lower...but I do think he's got a solid case as a peak guard defender.

[falcolombardi]

Another Hoopshype list. Here's the link if you want to read the reasoning (and check some amazing photos) behind the ranking.

Why 78 players? That's the number of seasons the NBA has played in its history.

Without further ado:

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dennis Rodman
6. Scottie Pippen
7. Ben Wallace
8. Dikembe Mutombo
9. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
10. Dwight Howard

11. Wilt Chamberlain
12. David Robinson
13. Draymond Green
14. Rudy Gobert
15. Michael Jordan
16. Gary Payton
17. Giannis Antetokounmpo
18. Mark Eaton
19. Kawhi Leonard
20. Bobby Jones

21. Bruce Bowen
22. Tony Allen
23. Alonzo Mourning
24. Metta World Peace
25. Anthony Davis
26. Nate Thurmond
27. Marcus Camby
28. Andre Iguodala
29. Shaquille O'Neal
30. John Havlicek

31. Michael Cooper
32. LeBron James
33. Shawn Marion
34. Patrick Ewing
35. Andrei Kirilenko
36. Kobe Bryant
37. Tayshaun Prince
38. Joe Dumars
39. Alvin Robertson
40. Dennis Johnson

41. Tyson Chandler
42. Jason Kidd
43. Jrue Holiday
44. Wes Unseld
45. Marc Gasol
46. Norm Van Lier
47. Chris Paul
48. Walt Frazier
49. Sidney Moncrief
50. Moses Malone

51. Dave DeBusschere
52. Kevin McHale
53. Shane Battier
54. Jimmy Butler
55. Horace Grant
56. Joakim Noah
57. Maurice Cheeks
58. Bam Adebayo
59. Jerry Sloan
60. John Stockton

61. Rajon Rondo
62. Jaren Jackson Jr.
63. Marcus Smart
64. George Mikan
65. Buck Williams
66. Serge Ibaka
67. Jerry West
68. Elvin Hayes
69. Charles Oakley
70. Willis Reed

71. Patrick Beverley
72. Mookie Blaylock
73. Nate McMillan
74. Larry Bird
75. Dwyane Wade
76. Doug Christie
77. Larry Nance
78. Derek Harper

How tf is Green a head Allen and Jordan

Agree, he should be way more ahead of them

Jordan is wildly overated her

[Bornstellar]

David Robinson at 12 is an absolute joke

[SNPA]

Kobe was never a better defensive player than Doug Christie. Kobe won off of being in LA and NBA money reasons. This is without going into Butler or Paul.