[Hoopshype] The 78 greatest defensive players in NBA history

[AbeVigodaLive]

Dave Debusschere should be higher.

He was 1st team All Defense his last 6 seasons in the league... the top vote getter three times. The only reason he didn't earn any before that is because they didn't recognize All Defense teams.

[70sFan]

There is an exactly 0% chance Russell is more athletic than Howard. It's not even comparable. Could be stronger but not quicker or more athletic.

I don't like to say that, but it's ridiculous. Russell was an olympic-level high jumper and he's one of the quickest, most mobile players at his size ever. What makes you believe that there is "exactly 0% chance" that Russell is more athletic than Dwight?

Russell is not jumping over a car to dunk like Akeem and Howard.

Russell could have easily done that, they just didn't focus on such meaningless things back then. As far as I know, Hakeem never jumped over a car either, what makes you believe he could?

Doesn't have any lateral speed either. No sudden stop (deceleration).

Russell clears Howard in terms of these, what are you talking about?

Personally I don't think he matches up with Wilt either - if you take Wilt's apex dunks/blocks, I've never seen Russell get as high up.

That's because Wilt is like 3 inches taller with insane vertical himself.

Maybe you're comparing rumored verticals? Are you using some numbers that are mentioned in the past?

We have high jumping data for both Wilt and Russell, Bill was better.

[Sane]

There is an exactly 0% chance Russell is more athletic than Howard. It's not even comparable. Could be stronger but not quicker or more athletic.

I don't like to say that, but it's ridiculous. Russell was an olympic-level high jumper and he's one of the quickest, most mobile players at his size ever. What makes you believe that there is "exactly 0% chance" that Russell is more athletic than Dwight?

Russell is not jumping over a car to dunk like Akeem and Howard.

Russell could have easily done that, they just didn't focus on such meaningless things back then. As far as I know, Hakeem never jumped over a car either, what makes you believe he could?

Doesn't have any lateral speed either. No sudden stop (deceleration).

Russell clears Howard in terms of these, what are you talking about?

Personally I don't think he matches up with Wilt either - if you take Wilt's apex dunks/blocks, I've never seen Russell get as high up.

That's because Wilt is like 3 inches taller with insane vertical himself.

Maybe you're comparing rumored verticals? Are you using some numbers that are mentioned in the past?

We have high jumping data for both Wilt and Russell, Bill was better.

All the people we're talking about are elite athletes so the fact that Russell was one is not the point here.

The point is he can't reach as high or move as quick laterally as Akeem and Dwight are least. Whether that's because of height, weight or role, he just didn't do it the same.

Like I said at the end of the day Bill won those awards so it's theoretical who else would've won. In the same sense, it's totally theoretical that Russell could have been as athletic as these guys who were doing these things regularly more impressively than Russell who again I remind you is spending 0 energy on offense.

If Russell was secretly all that, then he didn't use it or didn't need to. Whatever the reason, he simply wasn't.

[70sFan]

The point is he can't reach as high or move as quick laterally as Akeem and Dwight are least. Whether that's because of height, weight or role, he just didn't do it the same.

Based on what?

[kazyv]

terrible bait list, with the sole purpose of baiting people with pippen in 6th place. ignore it

[shi-woo]

I appreciate doing a master list on something other than All-Time overall ranking. I think the nba doesn't educate it's fans enough for them to truly understand a list like this though, and some of these selections just make no sense to me.

I don't understand how Marcus Camby is 27th. He was solid and blocked shots, but never in my life did I think this guy was one of the greatest to ever lace them up. I admit I only saw him for DEN

I find it wild that Artest is 24, but then Tony Allen and Bruce Bowen are 2 of the 3 players in front of him. Maybe my perception of him is warped because for the Pacers he would always rock Pierce, and then he was a monster in LA and was the difference maker in 2010. Artest was one of the only players ive ever watched where I was actually terrified to see on the court, and it was all because of his defense. MWP was the ideal defender, and was the craziest and toughest SOB to ever ace em up. How this man isn't higher than Tony and Bruce is low key insulting, and you know Tony is my guy.

I also refuse to believe there are 62 better defensive players in league history than Marcus Smart. He is literally 6'3 Artest, and is one of the on;y guards i've ever seen who could take a game over at times just with their defense. Smart was like the defensive Blake Griffen his first half century in the league, you know you're getting a handful of highlights every night. He's one of the only guards to win DPoY, and the sad part is he was given it sort of as an I.O.U from previous years Dude is literally one of the best defenders I've ever seen, especially at team defense.

Moncrief also seems so so low for a guy that was known as one of his generations best defenders. Sid and that Bucks team are historically under rated, they like most teams, just could get past Bird.

[VA_Funaki]

Karl Malone is #6 all-time in Defensive Win Shares and averaged greater than 10 boards a game for a long career. Morality aside, you don't have to be a good person to be a good defender. He should be on this list?

Another Hoopshype list. Here's the link if you want to read the reasoning (and check some amazing photos) behind the ranking.

Why 78 players? That's the number of seasons the NBA has played in its history.

Without further ado:

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dennis Rodman
6. Scottie Pippen
7. Ben Wallace
8. Dikembe Mutombo
9. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
10. Dwight Howard

11. Wilt Chamberlain
12. David Robinson
13. Draymond Green
14. Rudy Gobert
15. Michael Jordan
16. Gary Payton
17. Giannis Antetokounmpo
18. Mark Eaton
19. Kawhi Leonard
20. Bobby Jones

21. Bruce Bowen
22. Tony Allen
23. Alonzo Mourning
24. Metta World Peace
25. Anthony Davis
26. Nate Thurmond
27. Marcus Camby
28. Andre Iguodala
29. Shaquille O'Neal
30. John Havlicek

31. Michael Cooper
32. LeBron James
33. Shawn Marion
34. Patrick Ewing
35. Andrei Kirilenko
36. Kobe Bryant
37. Tayshaun Prince
38. Joe Dumars
39. Alvin Robertson
40. Dennis Johnson

41. Tyson Chandler
42. Jason Kidd
43. Jrue Holiday
44. Wes Unseld
45. Marc Gasol
46. Norm Van Lier
47. Chris Paul
48. Walt Frazier
49. Sidney Moncrief
50. Moses Malone

51. Dave DeBusschere
52. Kevin McHale
53. Shane Battier
54. Jimmy Butler
55. Horace Grant
56. Joakim Noah
57. Maurice Cheeks
58. Bam Adebayo
59. Jerry Sloan
60. John Stockton

61. Rajon Rondo
62. Jaren Jackson Jr.
63. Marcus Smart
64. George Mikan
65. Buck Williams
66. Serge Ibaka
67. Jerry West
68. Elvin Hayes
69. Charles Oakley
70. Willis Reed

71. Patrick Beverley
72. Mookie Blaylock
73. Nate McMillan
74. Larry Bird
75. Dwyane Wade
76. Doug Christie
77. Larry Nance
78. Derek Harper

[benhillboy]

Decent list. I could easily replace LeBron, Battier, Grant, Bird, Wade, Christie, and Nance.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Karl Malone is #6 all-time in Defensive Win Shares and averaged greater than 10 boards a game for a long career. Morality aside, you don't have to be a good person to be a good defender. He should be on this list?

I can still see Malone's trademark move, slapping down on the ball, after the opposing big turns around with it too low.

[kcktiny]

I've always found it easier to ranked defenders by position. Below I've broken down the list by position. You can argue a few positions (Debusschere at SF not PF, Copper at PG, Marion at PF) but for the most part I think the positions are correct.

Fwiw I would rank Chamberlain and Robinson higher, Buck Williams higher, Kirilenko higher, Bruce Bowen lower, Moncrief higher, Dumars lower, Bryant below Robertson, Moncrief, and Dennis Johnson, Frazier higher.

C

Bill Russell
Hakeem Olajuwon
Ben Wallace
Dikembe Mutombo
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Dwight Howard
Wilt Chamberlain
David Robinson
Rudy Gobert
Mark Eaton
Alonzo Mourning
Nate Thurmond
Marcus Camby
Shaquille O'Neal
Patrick Ewing
Tyson Chandler
Wes Unseld
Marc Gasol
Moses Malone
Joakim Noah
Bam Adebayo
George Mikan
Willis Reed

PF

Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Dennis Rodman
Draymond Green
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Bobby Jones
Anthony Davis
Shawn Marion
Kevin McHale
Horace Grant
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Buck Williams
Serge Ibaka
Elvin Hayes
Charles Oakley

SF

Scottie Pippen
Kawhi Leonard
Bruce Bowen
Metta World Peace
Andre Iguodala
John Havlicek
Lebron James
Andrei Kirilenko
Tayshaun Prince
Dave Debusschere
Shane Battier
Jimmy Butler
Larry Bird
Larry Nance

SG

Michael Jordan
Tony Allen
Kobe Bryant
Joe Dumars
Alvin Robertson
Dennis Johnson
Sidney Moncrief
Jerry Sloan
Jerry West
Dwyane Wade
Doug Christie

PG

Gary Payton
Michael Cooper
Jason Kidd
Jrue Holiday
Norm Van Lier
Chris Paul
Walt Frazier
Maurice Cheeks
John Stockton
Rajon Rondo
Marcus Smart
Patrick Beverley
Nate McMillan
Derek Harper

[ropjhk]

Surprised Kobe is so low with 9 first team and 12 total all defense teams

ETA: People who quote and requote the full 78 person list clogging up the thread are a-holes

It was a common sentiment at the time that Kobe didn't deserve so many all defense team awards. Kobe's didn't always give a full effort on defense during the second half of his career. His appointments to the all defense team were based primarily on his performance during big moments and reputation.

[JujitsuFlip]

From Dan Devine at Yahoo:

“In doing Big Number research recently, I found three players in the 80th percentile or higher in The BBall Index’s perimeter isolation D, matchup difficulty, defensive playmaking, ball screen navigation, passing lane D and rim protection metrics:

Amen Thompson (Rockets), Alex Caruso (Thunder), and Javonte Green (Cavs).”

[bledredwine]

Dave Debusschere should be higher.

He was 1st team All Defense his last 6 seasons in the league... the top vote getter three times. The only reason he didn't earn any before that is because they didn't recognize All Defense teams.

Oh ****, didn't even notice him there.

[bledredwine]

I've always found it easier to ranked defenders by position. Below I've broken down the list by position. You can argue a few positions (Debusschere at SF not PF, Copper at PG, Marion at PF) but for the most part I think the positions are correct.

Fwiw I would rank Chamberlain and Robinson higher, Buck Williams higher, Kirilenko higher, Bruce Bowen lower, Moncrief higher, Dumars lower, Bryant below Robertson, Moncrief, and Dennis Johnson, Frazier higher.

C

Bill Russell
Hakeem Olajuwon
Ben Wallace
Dikembe Mutombo
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Dwight Howard
Wilt Chamberlain
David Robinson
Rudy Gobert
Mark Eaton
Alonzo Mourning
Nate Thurmond
Marcus Camby
Shaquille O'Neal
Patrick Ewing
Tyson Chandler
Wes Unseld
Marc Gasol
Moses Malone
Joakim Noah
Bam Adebayo
George Mikan
Willis Reed

PF

Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Dennis Rodman
Draymond Green
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Bobby Jones
Anthony Davis
Shawn Marion
Kevin McHale
Horace Grant
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Buck Williams
Serge Ibaka
Elvin Hayes
Charles Oakley

SF

Scottie Pippen
Kawhi Leonard
Bruce Bowen
Metta World Peace
Andre Iguodala
John Havlicek
Lebron James
Andrei Kirilenko
Tayshaun Prince
Dave Debusschere
Shane Battier
Jimmy Butler
Larry Bird
Larry Nance

SG

Michael Jordan
Tony Allen
Kobe Bryant
Joe Dumars
Alvin Robertson
Dennis Johnson
Sidney Moncrief
Jerry Sloan
Jerry West
Dwyane Wade
Doug Christie

PG

Gary Payton
Michael Cooper
Jason Kidd
Jrue Holiday
Norm Van Lier
Chris Paul
Walt Frazier
Maurice Cheeks
John Stockton
Rajon Rondo
Marcus Smart
Patrick Beverley
Nate McMillan
Derek Harper

This is a damned good list. Kudos for thinking deeply about it. I also appreciate Hakeem being ranked 2nd as he should (He's my GOAT defender, but I'll never know just how great Russell was on that end)

[70sFan]

C

Bill Russell
Hakeem Olajuwon
Ben Wallace
Dikembe Mutombo
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Dwight Howard
Wilt Chamberlain
David Robinson
Rudy Gobert
Mark Eaton
Alonzo Mourning
Nate Thurmond
Marcus Camby
Shaquille O'Neal
Patrick Ewing
Tyson Chandler
Wes Unseld
Marc Gasol
Moses Malone
Joakim Noah
Bam Adebayo
George Mikan
Willis Reed

Good list, I would find a place to Artis Gilmore though (definitely over Shaq)

PF

Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Dennis Rodman
Draymond Green
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Bobby Jones
Anthony Davis
Shawn Marion
Kevin McHale
Horace Grant
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Buck Williams
Serge Ibaka
Elvin Hayes
Charles Oakley

No Satch Sanders hurts, I think you need to find place for him. Paul Silas? Also, Mel Hutchins deserves to be on the list.

SF

Scottie Pippen
Kawhi Leonard
Bruce Bowen
Metta World Peace
Andre Iguodala
John Havlicek
Lebron James
Andrei Kirilenko
Tayshaun Prince
Dave Debusschere
Shane Battier
Jimmy Butler
Larry Bird
Larry Nance

I'd put Gus Johnson ahead of Larry Bird. Also think that Julius Erving has a decent case, though he was a bit inconsistent. Bill Hanzlik also is quite underrated.

SG

Michael Jordan
Tony Allen
Kobe Bryant
Joe Dumars
Alvin Robertson
Dennis Johnson
Sidney Moncrief
Jerry Sloan
Jerry West
Dwyane Wade
Doug Christie

Don Chaney has to be there. Same with Danny Green.

PG

Gary Payton
Michael Cooper
Jason Kidd
Jrue Holiday
Norm Van Lier
Chris Paul
Walt Frazier
Maurice Cheeks
John Stockton
Rajon Rondo
Marcus Smart
Patrick Beverley
Nate McMillan
Derek Harper

KC Jones and Al Attles.