No ceilings with a nice breakout of VJ Edgecombe. I would not mind at all if POR drafted him. Even if he is more like Simons size, his strengths\style of play are better suited for the current make up of this team IMO, and if the shooting is for real? You are looking at a Dwayne Wade type player IMO...
He is a lock for top 5 IMO, and good chance he could go #3
...during Olympic Qualifiers over the summer. There, he averaged 16.5 PPG on 57.1/38.5/81.2 splits along with 5.5 RPG, 3.8 APG, and 2.0 SPG. Seeing that type of production on a court with NBA peers at his size only heightened the intrigue.
A big part of the reason that I personally kept the faith with Edgecombe during his efficiency slump was because I always bought his shot. During his final AAU season on the Adidas Circuit, he made 36.2% of his threes and 83.8% of his free throws. He also sank 36.5% of his threes and 86% of his free throws during his final high school season at Long Island Lutheran. That’s a good set of priors. So, when Edgecombe only made 26.3% of his threes through the first eight games of the season, it made sense to exercise caution. Since then, he’s drained 42.6% of his attempts from long range. As it stands now, he’s at 38.5% from three on 8.3 attempts per 100 possessions—both good marks for a guard prospect.
Edgecombe is a great spot-up shooter. Per Synergy, he’s drilling 38.6% of his catch-and-shoot looks on the season. He’s decisive and confident, going directly into his motion with consistent mechanics across his attempts. This shot is made even better by his elevation and high release point.
Edgecombe gets way off the floor and has a high apex, making his shot exceedingly difficult to contest. This further bolsters his efficiency. Teams know he’s a shooter, so he draws hard closeouts, but that “bounce + tall swan” combo enables him to shoot over them with the greatest of ease. Per Synergy, 51 of his 83 catch-and-shoot threes have been contested, and he still makes 35.3% of those shots.
The area of Edgecombe’s scoring arsenal that needs the most work, in my opinion, is his pull-up shooting. He’s 4-for-15 on pull-up twos and 4-for-17 on pull-up threes so far this season. Right now, it appears as if it’s not a shot he’s comfortable going to. He’ll resort to these shots when he’s either given heaps of space or if it’s late in the clock. From a shot diet standpoint, that’s good. But when it comes to projecting star outcomes, a certain level of tough shot making off the dribble is desirable.
Edgecombe is an absolute sky-walker. He has real deal bounce and can finish well above the rim. Plus, he has the right tools to get to the rim on a consistent basis. He takes 31.9% of his halfcourt shots at the basket, per Synergy, which grades out well for a guard. Edgecombe’s catch-and-go burst and long strides help get him to the paint in a hurry. Plus, he has a bit of a wiggle to shake defenders in order to create advantages downhill. All of that stuff is good.
Simply put, it’s not uncommon for high-wire athletes to struggle with their touch at the basket when they’re younger. Bruce Brown, Dejounte Murray, Lu Dort, and Josh Green were all poor finishers during their pre-draft seasons. I think getting those overall body mechanics in line is just something that takes time.
I wonder is this was\is part of the issue with Scoot as well? He can get to the rim, the finishing just as not been there, but IO being able to GET to the rim is critical, the finishing you hope, is something that can be developed. Harder to develop not being able to get past defenders IMO.
Edgecombe’s playmaking is going to be one of the most interesting skills to monitor from this draft class in the coming years. His 20.2 AST% and 1.71 A:TO grade out fairly well relative to others in his archetype. He’s in a pretty good spot as a passer. Edgecombe’s “basic recognition” is strong. He’s quick to read help and hit the open man. He’s capable of staying poised when he draws two on the ball out of a screen before finding the roller. He can place accurate lob passes on the go. Defenses respect his rim gravity, and he’s started to consistently make interior passes to punish rim rotations while getting Baylor’s big men easy buckets.
Still, his assist-to-turnover ratio isn’t anything to get excited about. Edgecombe’s passing turnovers are often the result of going too fast in his process. When he meets an aggressive ball screen coverage (I.E. a blitz), he’ll occasionally try to rush a pass over the top of the defenders, only for it to be tipped. Sometimes, he’ll leave his feet without a plan while driving to the basket and have to force the ball through traffic to no avail. The bigger issue, though, is his handle. Edgecombe doesn’t have great command over the ball, particularly when driving left. His dribble can get wide, which opens him up to digs. But even worse, sometimes he’ll just cough it up without much prompting while driving at top speed. I tend to be optimistic when it comes to players improving as passers, particularly when there are more positive flashes than negative ones. That said, Edgecombe’s handle needs a lot of work. His ability to drive left, his counter bag, and his spatial awareness in traffic will all need to improve in order for him to successfully fill a heavy on-ball role at the NBA level.
Despite having the second highest usage rate on Baylor’s roster among everyday players, V.J. Edgecombe approaches defense like he’s a walk-on thirsty for more minutes. His 4.1 STL% and 2.9 BLK% both grade out exceptionally well relative to long-term NBA players.
You put him on the perimeter, with Camara\Deni at the wings and Clingan in the middle, that could be a tough defensive team. Not sure where the consistent offense is going to come from but, not a fun team to play on night.
I also cannot recall a prospect who picks the pockets of opponents immediately after rebounds as often as Edgecombe, and he manages to do it without getting whistled for needless “frustration fouls.” His speed in the open floor also enables him to pick off looping passes. His shot-blocking is very rare for a guard. When he’s on the ball, he rises to contest really well. In instances where he gets beat off the dribble, he always works to recover, and often manages to turn away his opponent at the basket. Off-ball, he boasts far better rim rotation instincts than most peers his size, getting into position before soaring for rejections.
His 13.6 DRB% is another feather in his cap. It’s not uncommon to see him get a contested board against a traditional big man thanks to his bounce and grit. And though Baylor’s scheme doesn’t force him to navigate screens often, he’s shown an ability to do it.
I’ve mentioned it multiple times now—Edgecombe works his tail off. He’s tough and physical. Still, he faces size limitations. He’s measured in at 6’3” barefoot with a 6’6” wingspan, and he’s listed at 180 pounds. To his credit, he’s done a great job of filling out his frame over the past few years. Still, all of this means that he will enter the NBA small by the league’s standards. And even at the college level, some teams have found success exploiting this issue. Bigger wings can knock him off his line when driving to the basket. When posted up, he’s not able to offer much resistance and he’s easy to shoot over. This is true of many players his size, but it’s still a limiting factor worth noting that NBA teams will seek to take advantage of, particularly in playoff settings.
Yeah, reasonable concern, small backcourt with him and Scoot, would not be overly excited to see that again, evn if the profile was in reverse of a Dame\CJ one (built more towards defense than offense).
Projection
Look. 100th percentile outcomes don’t happen very often, so I don’t like to fixate on them very much. But when talking about talent at the top of the draft, I do think it’s important to let your imagination run wild… to a degree. All stats are per 100 possessions. Which prospect would you prefer?
Player A:
-28.6 PTS, 9.8 REB, 6.2 AST, 3.9 TOV, 4.3 STL, 1.4 BLK
-45.6%/38.5%/79.5%
-50.5 2FG% on 13.5 2FGA, 38.5 3FG% on 8.3 3FGA, 79.5 FT% on 6.8 FTA
-24.3 USG%, 56.9 TS%, 53.0 eFG%, .310 FTr
Player B:
-28.1 PTS, 8.8 REB, 4.9 AST, 3.0 TOV, 3.7 STL, 0.9 BLK
-40.8%/35.4%/80.6%
-46.3 2FG% on 11.6 2FGA, 35.4 3FG% on 12.0 3FGA, 80.6 FT% on 5.7 FTA
-24.6 USG%, 53.4 TS%, 49.6 eFG%, .243 FTr
Player A is V.J. Edgecombe. Player B is Donovan Mitchell during his sophomore season at Louisville.
Again, I want to be clear that I am not saying V.J. Edgecombe is going to turn into Donovan Mitchell. What I am saying is that there are similarities, and if everything falls into place, I think that could be an approximate outcome.
Generally, my preference is to look at more reasonable outcomes. There’s still good news, though, because Edgecombe is cut from a valuable piece of cloth. Guards who can be disruptive defensively, punch above their weight on the glass, make good decisions, and knock down threes always have a place in the NBA. Right now, he’s a star who competes like a role player. So if he needs to slide into a role, he’ll be more than up to the task. And there are some really valuable role players who produced similarly to Edgecombe in college—think Alex Caruso, Josh Hart, Keon Ellis, or Gary Payton II. They might not be the biggest dogs in the yard, but their combination of competitiveness, defensive production, rebounding, secondary playmaking, and floor spacing helps them routinely find playing time on winning teams. I feel confident that with Edgecombe’s work ethic, improvement trajectory, and performance, he’s proven that he can be that type of player. But the fact that’s he’s already producing the way those guys were as upperclassmen (even better than them, arguably) does indicate that he could be even more. V.J. Edgecombe has been one of the most exciting prospects to watch in this cycle, but he also projects to be one of the most valuable to an NBA franchise come June.