2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[AleksandarN]

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[Exp0sed]

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those were 9 easy games, we'll see how the Nuggets and Jokic fair in their upcoming stretch. they host the Lakers next, then have a tough roadtrip starting at Indy (which handily beat the Grizz at home yesterday), Bucks, Pistons and Celtics on a b2b all away from home ofc, then they go back home to host Sac and PHX and have a double header vs. OKC with both games in Oklahoma

those are their next 9 games and each of those matchups is tougher than any of the 9 in their current win streak so...I wouldn't get too excited

personally I think the Nuggets aren't on the tier of the real contenders and this stretch will demonstrate that, just a reminder that before this 9 games winning streak they lost three straight, one to the Bulls and two vs. very good teams (Minny and NY)

Jokic is Jokic, he's gonna do Jokic things regardless but the convo will be different when they go say.. 3-6 in those 9. very different than the convo rn anyway

he's def getting harder and harder to deny (MVP wise), that's for sure

[AleksandarN]

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those were 9 easy games, we'll see how the Nuggets and Jokic fair in their upcoming stretch. they host the Lakers next, then have a tough roadtrip starting at Indy (which handily beat the Grizz at home yesterday), Bucks, Pistons and Celtics on a b2b all away from home ofc, then they go back home to host Sac and PHX and have a double header vs. OKC with both games in Oklahoma

those are their next 9 games and each of those matchups is tougher than any of the 9 in their current win streak so...I wouldn't get too excited

personally I think the Nuggets aren't on the tier of the real contenders and this stretch will demonstrate that, just a reminder that before this 9 games winning streak they lost three straight, one to the Bulls and two vs. very good teams (Minny and NY)

Jokic is Jokic, he's gonna do Jokic things regardless but the convo will be different when they go say.. 3-6 in those 9. very different than the convo rn anyway

he's def getting harder and harder to deny (MVP wise), that's for sure

Weak schedule sure but the team wasn’t healthy during that stretch either. 4 of the top 7 guys were in and out of the lineup. I doubt they would go 3 - 6.

[scrabbarista]

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those were 9 easy games, we'll see how the Nuggets and Jokic fair in their upcoming stretch. they host the Lakers next, then have a tough roadtrip starting at Indy (which handily beat the Grizz at home yesterday), Bucks, Pistons and Celtics on a b2b all away from home ofc, then they go back home to host Sac and PHX and have a double header vs. OKC with both games in Oklahoma

those are their next 9 games and each of those matchups is tougher than any of the 9 in their current win streak so...I wouldn't get too excited

personally I think the Nuggets aren't on the tier of the real contenders and this stretch will demonstrate that, just a reminder that before this 9 games winning streak they lost three straight, one to the Bulls and two vs. very good teams (Minny and NY)

Jokic is Jokic, he's gonna do Jokic things regardless but the convo will be different when they go say.. 3-6 in those 9. very different than the convo rn anyway

he's def getting harder and harder to deny (MVP wise), that's for sure

Weak schedule sure but the team wasn’t healthy during that stretch either. 4 of the top 7 guys were in and out of the lineup. I doubt they would go 3 - 6.

And any time you say "No one else has done it half as long," that's the story.

It's not like no one else has ever faced weak opponents.

[BigGargamel]

Nuggets the 2 seed. Nuggets have the fifth best record in the NBA. Nuggets haven't been healthy most of the season. Nuggets have almost the same starting lineup as they did when they won a championship two short seasons ago. Nuggets have the best player in the world playing the best basketball he has ever played.

The Nuggets are not contenders.

[QPR]

It's very reasonable to want to see how Denver fares against better opposition. What are their statement wins so far, aside from OKC?

Their record is largely based on them beating.who they should beat. Which is fine, but it's fair to question their overall standing given they're not going to be facing Charlotte, Portland and Utah in the postseason.

OKC is winning at such a high clip that Jokic has no margin for error. He probably needs to beat them both times coming up too.

[Chanel Bomber]

If there was ever one year to have co-MVPs, it would be this one.

SGA and Jokic are head and shoulders above the rest of the league.

I don't think voters should ever take legacy implications or fears of hindsight into account when choosing the league MVP. I think it's a mistake voters regularly make to reward or punish certain players.

But in a race that's so close, I couldn't help but wonder about what it would mean for Jokic to win or not win.

Winning a 4th MVP would put Jokic in rare air. Only five players in NBA history have won 4 MVPs or more, and they all won multiple championships: Wilt 2, LeBron with 4, Jordan 6, Kareem 6, Russell 11. From a historical standpoint, Jokic would stand out as the only player with 4+ MVPs and only 1 title.

But there is a precedent: Wilt had only won 1 title when he won his fourth MVP in 1968. So in and of itself, history cannot be used against Jokic winning a 4th MVP this year.

Of course, the worst-case scenario would be a repeat of 2023 - voters punishing Jokic for not having enough rings (then 0, now 1) to warrant winning another MVP, only to win the championship a few weeks later.

I just hope voters are reasonable this time, unlike two years ago. I think both players have a really strong case as of today. Let's see if one or the other creates some separation, but it'll be tight either way.

[Exp0sed]

since dropping 50 on the Suns on the 6\2 SGA has posted:

25\4\6 on 5-12 from the field vs. the Raps

32\0\8 on 8-26 from the field vs Memphis

31\1\2 on 10-20 vs. NOP

32\5\9 on 11-22 vs Miami

24\8\9 on 6-21 vs. Minny (the only loss)

21\2\8 on 7-16 vs. the Jazz last night

that amounts to 27.5 PPG, 7 APG and 3.3 Rebs on 40% from the field (he did shoot 40% from 3 and ofc 90% from the line in that stretch) and was a +63 in total while the Thunder were about +85 as a team in those games

so the team is obviously rolling but it'd be hard for him to dethrone Jokic if he keeps this up. for the season his numbers are still stellar, his TS% was 64% before the Jazz game but he'll need to pick it back up otherwise this race might get close again

Jokic is basically averaging a 30 points triple double (29.7 PPG) with almost 13 Rebs on 66 TS%, Shai will need to hit on that throttle again, team wins alone won't get it done for him if his efficiency and overall numbers continue on this little trend

truly an historic MVP race, we've never had two guys having that caliber of season simulatenuesly

[scrabbarista]

since dropping 50 on the Suns on the 6\2 SGA has posted:

25\4\6 on 5-12 from the field vs. the Raps

32\0\8 on 8-26 from the field vs Memphis

31\1\2 on 10-20 vs. NOP

32\5\9 on 11-22 vs Miami

24\8\9 on 6-21 vs. Minny (the only loss)

21\2\8 on 7-16 vs. the Jazz last night

that amounts to 27.5 PPG, 7 APG and 3.3 Rebs on 40% from the field (he did shoot 40% from 3 and ofc 90% from the line in that stretch) and was a +63 in total while the Thunder were about +85 as a team in those games

so the team is obviously rolling but it'd be hard for him to dethrone Jokic if he keeps this up. for the season his numbers are still stellar, his TS% was 64% before the Jazz game but he'll need to pick it back up otherwise this race might get close again

Jokic is basically averaging a 30 points triple double (29.7 PPG) with almost 13 Rebs on 66 TS%, Shai will need to hit on that throttle again, team wins alone won't get it done for him if his efficiency and overall numbers continue on this little trend

truly an historic MVP race, we've never had two guys having that caliber of season simulatenuesly

Jokic's lead has been growing.

[QPR]

Denver has to keep winning though, and needs to beat some good teams. If they go 4-5 in the next nine it won't matter how much SGA's stats drop, especially if OKC beats them twice coming up.

[Exp0sed]

Denver has to keep winning though, and needs to beat some good teams. If they go 4-5 in the next nine it won't matter how much SGA's stats drop, especially if OKC beats them twice coming up.

it depends

if Jokic is dropping 40-10-10 and Murray\MPJ not bringing it at all while SGA keeps playing at a more pedestrian level (like he has in the last couple of weeks) i'm not sure it would matter even if they go 4-5 and that's especially true for the h2h games that certainly have some sway over voters

the Nuggets have a truly brutal stretch from here on out, it's not just these next 9, they're not gonna "keep winning", imo that's very unlikely but this is where we're at all season, the individual gap vs. the team record gap and the different weight and interpertations we each have for these two axis

a month ago it was pretty easily SGA as he's closed the individual gap to a pretty negligible gap (remember that Murray started awful and Jokic was having basically the best season ever in the first 25 games out of the gate) while the team record gap was huge

with the Nuggets winning some more and OKC dropping a few the team gap has been reduced somwhat while SGA has taken a step back so we've seen the race get closer. if he continues averaging 27\7\3 (for argument sake) on 40% the rest of the way than I don't think the team gap is gonna matter much, even tho the Nuggets are gonna be racking up losses (assuming Jokic will still be doing Jokic things even in those losses)

i'm pretty confident SGA will pick it back up soon and the issue will be moot but there's a tipping point somehwere...a point in which the team wins (as substantial as they might be) aren't gonna be enough because of the individual gap, especially if SGA misses a couple of games too (he's played 4 more so far), I don't think we're gonna get there tho partly because the record gap is going to be more substantial than it is atm. Nuggets aren't that good and they have a really high number of very tough matchups, personally I don't hold these (hypotethical future) losses against Jokic but rather to his team not being as good as the top tier teams but most voters don't see it that way

[Wolfgang630]

Some of these media members are a joke. Media is a joke in general I guess. At the beginning of the season when Denver wasn’t consistently good it was “oh if Denver even gets a top 6 seed, not in the play in then how can you not give it to Jokic”. Then it’s “Denver needs a top 3 seed for Jokic to get it”. Now it became “he’s not winning it unless they have the number 1 seed!” It’s the same people who keep changing the goal posts. They say they don’t want to give it to someone who won 3 already and it’s “somebody else’s turn”.

[Infinite Llamas]

Some of these media members are a joke. Media is a joke in general I guess. At the beginning of the season when Denver wasn’t consistently good it was “oh if Denver even gets a top 6 seed, not in the play in then how can you not give it to Jokic”. Then it’s “Denver needs a top 3 seed for Jokic to get it”. Now it became “he’s not winning it unless they have the number 1 seed!” It’s the same people who keep changing the goal posts. They say they don’t want to give it to someone who won 3 already and it’s “somebody else’s turn”.

“Somebody else’s turn” is code for “charity”.

And they would be doing SGA a great disservice by calling it that. If SGA wins, it should be because he’s having a better season than Joker. Otherwise we have an Embiid situation again and SGA has a more compelling case than Embiid ever did.

The media is an absolute joke. They treat MVPs like Lifetime Achievement awards.

One of Jokic or SGA will gain separation at some point and while I hope it’s Jokic, I wouldn’t be distraught if SGA won. The media just makes the whole thing so obnoxious though. No way these clowns should have legacy defining power.

[Exp0sed]

“Somebody else’s turn” is code for “charity”.

And they would be doing SGA a great disservice by calling it that. If SGA wins, it should be because he’s having a better season than Joker. Otherwise we have an Embiid situation again and SGA has a more compelling case than Embiid ever did.

The media is an absolute joke. They treat MVPs like Lifetime Achievement awards.

One of Jokic or SGA will gain separation at some point and while I hope it’s Jokic, I wouldn’t be distraught if SGA won. The media just makes the whole thing so obnoxious though. No way these clowns should have legacy defining power.

I don't remember who said it but I saw somewhere a media guy who has a vote (can't remember who it was, too stoned atm) saying that it's low-key kind of crazy that the CBA has tied end of season awards with actual salary. he said he doesn't feel really comfortable with that and that it should be changed and I thought he was right, it is kinda crazy and wrong

[Alatan]

Nuggets the 2 seed. Nuggets have the fifth best record in the NBA. Nuggets haven't been healthy most of the season. Nuggets have almost the same starting lineup as they did when they won a championship two short seasons ago. Nuggets have the best player in the world playing the best basketball he has ever played.

The Nuggets are not contenders.

The Nuggets dont have defense.

[scrabbarista]

Denver has to keep winning though, and needs to beat some good teams. If they go 4-5 in the next nine it won't matter how much SGA's stats drop, especially if OKC beats them twice coming up.

it depends

if Jokic is dropping 40-10-10 and Murray\MPJ not bringing it at all while SGA keeps playing at a more pedestrian level (like he has in the last couple of weeks) i'm not sure it would matter even if they go 4-5 and that's especially true for the h2h games that certainly have some sway over voters

the Nuggets have a truly brutal stretch from here on out, it's not just these next 9, they're not gonna "keep winning", imo that's very unlikely but this is where we're at all season, the individual gap vs. the team record gap and the different weight and interpertations we each have for these two axis

a month ago it was pretty easily SGA as he's closed the individual gap to a pretty negligible gap (remember that Murray started awful and Jokic was having basically the best season ever in the first 25 games out of the gate) while the team record gap was huge

with the Nuggets winning some more and OKC dropping a few the team gap has been reduced somwhat while SGA has taken a step back so we've seen the race get closer. if he continues averaging 27\7\3 (for argument sake) on 40% the rest of the way than I don't think the team gap is gonna matter much, even tho the Nuggets are gonna be racking up losses (assuming Jokic will still be doing Jokic things even in those losses)

i'm pretty confident SGA will pick it back up soon and the issue will be moot but there's a tipping point somehwere...a point in which the team wins (as substantial as they might be) aren't gonna be enough because of the individual gap, especially if SGA misses a couple of games too (he's played 4 more so far), I don't think we're gonna get there tho partly because the record gap is going to be more substantial than it is atm. Nuggets aren't that good and they have a really high number of very tough matchups, personally I don't hold these (hypotethical future) losses against Jokic but rather to his team not being as good as the top tier teams but most voters don't see it that way

There was like 24 or 48 hour window when I would've voted for SGA. The rest of the season has been Jokic for me.

It seems a lot of media see things differently than I do.

I will say SGA is very clearly the best non-Jokic season of the last five years. Which somewhat does him a disservice, because it might be the best non-Jokic season of a lot more years than five.

[HotRocks34]

Richard Jefferson just said on the Lakers/Nuggets pregame that Jokic is having the greatest statistical season in the history of the NBA.

[QPR]

First real test for Denver in a month and they're failing it miserably. He's the best player in the world but he's not winning MVP in this team right now.

[Big J]

Terrible showing tonight for Joker.

[Jurassic_Park]

When the lakers eliminate den in the playoffs this year in round 1. We can finally ease up on jokic is top 5 all time. But then again, everyone will just blame jokic’s teammates