Game Thread: New York KNICKS at Cleveland Cavaliers Fri, Feb 21, 2025 7:00pm ESPN

[BBALLER4FR]

Go home Knicks. No one cares about your upcoming playoff run. You are a joke.

[robillionaire]

At least Dadiet looked decent

[matchman]

Only losing 37 points, then a 1.5 days break to play Celts.

[Butch718]

Knicks play drop coverage. Teams spam them with 3s.

They play tighter, the paint becomes a free for all.

But even a mentally challenged fan could see that starting Precious next to Kat was a disaster in the making. You simply cannot start those 2 next to each other against a team like the Cavs. Thibs is so **** stubborn.

[TKKnicks1]

Anyone that thought we were gonna beat the Cavs on a B2B on the road needs to lay off the pipe.

[Adelheid]

start the pg thread already lol

[Chanel Bomber]

mikal scoring and the deficit isn't shrinking...and we playing the same defensive scheme

yall worried about the wrong thing.

Your boy is a disappointment.

5 picks for a player with a +1.0 EPM was a massive blunder. It painted us into a corner, for not much on-court value.

I actually like his game because it's super smooth but he hasn't been a difference-maker.

If the Knicks never make the Finals this decade, this trade will be the primary reason why.

I didn't have a problem with the trade because that was about his price when he was first traded to BK before he blew up offensively. Memphis 4 firsts offer was rejected.

I think the disappointment is more on how he’s been utilized on both ends. Putting him at the POA isn’t ideal. I thought from day 1 it should’ve been Deuce with Hart as 6th man. Offensively there’s just no creativity. We’ve got a lot of firepower but their talents aren’t being anywhere near maximized.

He only had a good 3 months in Brooklyn, when he got traded there.

Last season he was just putting up numbers on a bad team that was going nowhere. We see this every season.

Under 20ppg on below-average efficiency, without much playmaking, and a defensive performance nosediving towards mediocrity...

I don't think it's coaching - that's overthinking it. Mikal has never made an All-Star team. He has only made one All-NBA defensive team. Nobody around the league views him that highly. Neither do the impact metrics. There just isn't much there, I don't know why it's so hard for some folks to accept.

[Knick4Real]

Knicks4Real mowing em down and on a roll!! The streak continues here!

We got 4 wins during my Game Thread run. I'll take it with pride and pass the baton to whoever is next.

[robillionaire]

Your boy is a disappointment.

5 picks for a player with a +1.0 EPM was a massive blunder. It painted us into a corner, for not much on-court value.

I actually like his game because it's super smooth but he hasn't been a difference-maker.

If the Knicks never make the Finals this decade, this trade will be the primary reason why.

I didn't have a problem with the trade because that was about his price when he was first traded to BK before he blew up offensively. Memphis 4 firsts offer was rejected.

I think the disappointment is more on how he’s been utilized on both ends. Putting him at the POA isn’t ideal. I thought from day 1 it should’ve been Deuce with Hart as 6th man. Offensively there’s just no creativity. We’ve got a lot of firepower but their talents aren’t being anywhere near maximized.

He only had a good 3 months in Brooklyn, when he got traded there.

Last season he was just putting up numbers on a bad team that was going nowhere. We see this every season.

Under 20ppg on below-average efficiency, without much playmaking, and a defensive impact taking a nosedive towards average...

I don't think it's coaching - that's overthinking it. Mikal has never made an All-Star team. He has only made one All-NBA defensive team. Nobody around the league views him that highly. Neither do the impact metrics. There just isn't much there, I don't know why it's so hard for some folks to accept.

I thought there could be a Donte divencenzo effect where he was bolstered by playing with his buddies Brunson and Hart and maybe has an extra gear. That hasn’t materialized, to say the least. I’m not even sure he’s been better than last years unleashed Donte divencenzo

[BBALLER4FR]

Brunson, KAT, OG and Bridges have some soul searching to do this offseason. If Thibs is going to give you the lion's share of minutes, touches and decisions, you need to maximize them.

Disappointed in Brunson's trust level of anybody not in the SL.
Hate KAT's complaining, lack of defense and rebounding (though the last 2 are part of his DNA)
Disgusted by Bridges lack of care. He looks like he is no constant cardio mode.
OG was a huge mistake. Bigger than the Bridges heist BKN pulled.

[mpharris36]

Your boy is a disappointment.

5 picks for a player with a +1.0 EPM was a massive blunder. It painted us into a corner, for not much on-court value.

I actually like his game because it's super smooth but he hasn't been a difference-maker.

If the Knicks never make the Finals this decade, this trade will be the primary reason why.

I didn't have a problem with the trade because that was about his price when he was first traded to BK before he blew up offensively. Memphis 4 firsts offer was rejected.

I think the disappointment is more on how he’s been utilized on both ends. Putting him at the POA isn’t ideal. I thought from day 1 it should’ve been Deuce with Hart as 6th man. Offensively there’s just no creativity. We’ve got a lot of firepower but their talents aren’t being anywhere near maximized.

He only had a good 3 months in Brooklyn, when he got traded there.

Last season he was just putting up numbers on a bad team that was going nowhere. We see this every season.

Under 20ppg on below-average efficiency, without much playmaking, and a defensive performance nosediving towards mediocrity...

I don't think it's coaching - that's overthinking it. Mikal has never made an All-Star team. He has only made one All-NBA defensive team. Nobody around the league views him that highly. Neither do the impact metrics. There just isn't much there, I don't know why it's so hard for some folks to accept.

nobody views him that highly when Nets legit turned down 4 1st rounders from Memphis during the season before trading him to us.

How do you reconcile that...

[DaGawd]

start the pg thread already lol

overall morale is in the tank

[LFGK]

Mitch OG and Hart changes A LOT of that man...this team will hit its stride rite before the playoffs and will be just fine

Yah, no.

Goodluck with Mitch staying healthy for a playoff run.

Their perimeter defense was dead last with a healthy Hart and OG.

Need to stop deluding ourselves.

With all those drop coverage? Mitch isn't the Messiah.

They will be able to play tighter with Mitch in the game

[spree8]

Your boy is a disappointment.

5 picks for a player with a +1.0 EPM was a massive blunder. It painted us into a corner, for not much on-court value.

I actually like his game because it's super smooth but he hasn't been a difference-maker.

If the Knicks never make the Finals this decade, this trade will be the primary reason why.

I didn't have a problem with the trade because that was about his price when he was first traded to BK before he blew up offensively. Memphis 4 firsts offer was rejected.

I think the disappointment is more on how he’s been utilized on both ends. Putting him at the POA isn’t ideal. I thought from day 1 it should’ve been Deuce with Hart as 6th man. Offensively there’s just no creativity. We’ve got a lot of firepower but their talents aren’t being anywhere near maximized.

He only had a good 3 months in Brooklyn, when he got traded there.

Last season he was just putting up numbers on a bad team that was going nowhere. We see this every season.

Under 20ppg on below-average efficiency, without much playmaking, and a defensive performance nosediving towards mediocrity...

I don't think it's coaching - that's overthinking it. Mikal has never made an All-Star team. He has only made one All-NBA defensive team. Nobody around the league views him that highly. Neither do the impact metrics. There just isn't much there, I don't know why it's so hard for some folks to accept.

Apparently the Rockets and Grizzlies viewed him highly enough to offer as much as we did…

[3toheadmelo]

I didn't have a problem with the trade because that was about his price when he was first traded to BK before he blew up offensively. Memphis 4 firsts offer was rejected.

I think the disappointment is more on how he’s been utilized on both ends. Putting him at the POA isn’t ideal. I thought from day 1 it should’ve been Deuce with Hart as 6th man. Offensively there’s just no creativity. We’ve got a lot of firepower but their talents aren’t being anywhere near maximized.

He only had a good 3 months in Brooklyn, when he got traded there.

Last season he was just putting up numbers on a bad team that was going nowhere. We see this every season.

Under 20ppg on below-average efficiency, without much playmaking, and a defensive performance nosediving towards mediocrity...

I don't think it's coaching - that's overthinking it. Mikal has never made an All-Star team. He has only made one All-NBA defensive team. Nobody around the league views him that highly. Neither do the impact metrics. There just isn't much there, I don't know why it's so hard for some folks to accept.

Apparently the Rockets and Grizzlies viewed him highly enough to offer as much as we did…

They should’ve saved us tbh

[mpharris36]

At least Dadiet looked decent

just for his size alone he should play over shamet...how much worse can he be and we could use the bigger wing for defense.

also delon wright might warrant time over Cam Payne...we could use the defense at the POA.

[Guano]

At least Dadiet looked decent

[LFGK]

Brunson, KAT, OG and Bridges have some soul searching to do this offseason. If Thibs is going to give you the lion's share of minutes, touches and decisions, you need to maximize them.

Disappointed in Brunson's trust level of anybody not in the SL.
Hate KAT's complaining, lack of defense and rebounding (though the last 2 are part of his DNA)
Disgusted by Bridges lack of care. He looks like he is no constant cardio mode.
OG was a huge mistake. Bigger than the Bridges heist BKN pulled.

Seasons over rite? No need to get Mitch and OG back up to speed and Hart back...let's just skip the playoffs...brother what are you complaining about KAT rebounding he's second in the league in boards. I get people get down after losses but nobody gonna remember this game come playoff time, the season also won't be over after Sunday.

[robillionaire]

At least Dadiet looked decent

I’m comfy as hell here staying off the dadiet train I promise

[Chanel Bomber]

He plays every **** game...when you have a a few guys that miss a lot of time...he takes the toughest defensive matchup every night. if you sole value is EPM is who is better than Aaron Wiggins is better than Josh Hart...im sure you agree with that.

If he takes the toughest matchup every night, and does a good job at it, it should reflect on his impact metrics.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of discussing your finding whichever counterintuitive piece of data in the best impact metric around to question the pertinence of the metric because it doesn't suit your conclusions.

And yes, Josh Hart doesn't have an outsize impact on winning because he hurts our spacing and he's not a great defender. And he's my favorite Knick. He certainly isn't worth 4 unprotected firsts, an unprotected pick swap, and a protected first, yet he's played better than Mikal this season.

Aaron Wiggins has been a solid contributor on the best team in the NBA by the way.

I don't understand why you keep having blinders on for some players when the data and most sensible people around you show they're nowhere near as good as you think. You're a stubborn man lol.

its half a year with a brand new team...if you just look at underlying metrics and not the game its robot talk. I'm very analytically driven but you have to be able to use analytics to match up with the eye test.

He isn't even being used effectively by the coach in his first year and still is having a good season.

Your not factoring in the CBA, his contract flexibility, giving no rotation palyers, his want to be hear and sign a extension problem that is more team friendly like brunson.

You just say bad deal because of EPM...come on what are we doing here...

Eh no, I don't base that just off EPM, let alone for this season.

He hasn't helped transform our defense this year. You don't need impact metrics to see it. He's had some great games/plays defensively, but he hasn't brought consistent defensive impact. This isn't about being used effectively by the coach.

And on coaching - he wasn't good in Brooklyn offensively last year either. He was just... slightly above-average I suppose. Just like he has been here.

You act like Mikal is some established difference-maker in the NBA. He has 0 All-Star appearances. 0 All-NBA appearances. Just 1 All-NBA defensive team appearance. And his career EPM doesn't suggest he was ever a difference-maker.

This is not someone you trade the farm for. 4 unprotected firsts, an unprotected swap and a protected 1st is an absurd price to pay.

I don't care about the contract or your confidence that he will take a discount. The Knicks had a lot of draft capital that they could leverage to elevate their talent level massively. And they used it on a player who doesn't.