2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm

[thelead]

30% from 3 for the season… the next worst is 33%. The spread (3%) between us (30th) and Washington (29th) is the same spread (3%) between Washington and the Clippers (12th). We are in a league of our own with that level of shooting. How are we SO bad at shooting?

[OrlandoNed]

30% from 3 for the season… the next worst is 33%. The spread (3%) between us (30th) and Washington (29th) is the same spread (3%) between Washington and the Clippers (12th). We are in a league of our own with that level of shooting. How are we SO bad at shooting?

Because Weltman is bad at his job.

[Rainwater]

Well, I still think we are back to being a good team

Honestly, I agree. I thought that the magic played well against a really good Memphis team. They should have won but they melted away towards the end.

[pepe1991]

We scored 2 points in last 6 min of a game.
What's there to add?

With Paolo and Franz playing like Melo and Iverson in terms of how selfish they are, other people have no rhythm. And it all leads to horrific offense.

It is miracle that they are actually 28-30 given how bad they play.

[ogmagicfan]

We scored 2 points in last 6 min of a game.
What's there to add?

With Paolo and Franz playing like Melo and Iverson in terms of how selfish they are, other people have no rhythm. And it all leads to horrific offense.

It is miracle that they are actually 28-30 given how bad they play.

These habits have been encouraged and facilitated by our roster construction

Enough of the 2 point forward project, time to bring in an actual PG, and a couple of well established vets to provide guidance to particularly our big 3 on what they need to do to take the Magic to the next level

On a game like tonight where Cole has the hot hand, he needs to get in more shots to finish the game, especially if he's getting hunted on defense. There's no point to have him on the court if not

I dont even recall KCP touching the ball in the last 5-6 mins of the game to be honest. Piss poor ball movement

[GelbeWand09]

We lost a 7 points Gary Harris Scoring outburst. All hope is gone.

[GelbeWand09]

The fact that Paolo *right now* (not saying he will be this way forever) seems completely and utterly incapable and unequipped to be both a No. 1 scoring option and the best player on a team with any real playoff aspirations is the biggest problem this organization faces by a mile.

Like it's not even close.

Any criticism about Mosley or the shooting or anything else absolutely pales in comparison to the fact that since returning from his injury, Paolo has legitimately been the worst high usage player in the entire NBA. That's not an exaggeration whatsoever either.

I wrote before the draft all the time that Paolo's playertype rarely becomes a big impact player. One way offensive bigs have to be ultra efficient not to be a negative to slightly above average player. And the bad finishing at the rim was already a red flag pre draft. But despite my critism i'm not one of the trade him guys that are all over social media the last weeks. Even if there is a good chance that in 3 years it will look like a mistake not to have traded him when he still had peak value and the young superstar label. By this time next season he could already have the empty stats label.
First there is no chance in hell Weltman trades him and second despite never being a fan of Paolo, I still see the talent and I still see ways for him to be a very good player in the right environment and system and with complementing teammates, but only if we get a better player than him for less money, who orchestrates the offense (like suns CP3 or Lowry type) and with enough shooting from him and Franz + tons of shooting around them.
But I can't see him being the best player on a contender as a one way player. He will never be efficient enough with his missing touch at the rim.

[pepe1991]

The fact that Paolo *right now* (not saying he will be this way forever) seems completely and utterly incapable and unequipped to be both a No. 1 scoring option and the best player on a team with any real playoff aspirations is the biggest problem this organization faces by a mile.

Like it's not even close.

Any criticism about Mosley or the shooting or anything else absolutely pales in comparison to the fact that since returning from his injury, Paolo has legitimately been the worst high usage player in the entire NBA. That's not an exaggeration whatsoever either.

I wrote before the draft all the time that Paolo's playertype rarely becomes a big impact player. One way offensive bigs have to be ultra efficient not to be a negative to slightly above average player. And the bad finishing at the rim was already a red flag pre draft. But despite my critism i'm not one of the trade him guys that are all over social media the last weeks. Even if there is a good chance that in 3 years it will look like a mistake not to have traded him when he still had peak value and the young superstar label. By this time next season he could already have the empty stats label.
First there is no chance in hell Weltman trades him and second despite never being a fan of Paolo, I still see the talent and I still see ways for him to be a very good player in the right environment and system and with complementing teammates, but only if we get a better player than him for less money, who orchestrates the offense (like suns CP3 or Lowry type) and with enough shooting from him and Franz + tons of shooting around them.
But I can't see him being the best player on a contender as a one way player. He will never be efficient enough with his missing touch at the rim.

I really didn't agree with your take, Knightro that offense will fix itself because "Banchero's growth will solve it", especially when all that was based on 1 playoff series and 5 regular season games.

I don't think with return of Banchero offense is any better, often feels worst ( can't see numbers right now ).

Banchero to me feels like watching Blake Griffin around 2013-14, from media hype, being groomed to be next face of nba, than watching them vs OKC in second round and figuring out he is 4th best player on the floor in that series, as whole Clippers team was held by sheer existence of Chris Paul.

Paolo, like Black, isn't good 3 point shooter, nor he allows offense to come to him from that range. He bombs dribble pullups ( 88/132 threes were off dribble).
Paolo isn't great finisher around rim, but he isn't terrible one, issue is , he hardly ever actually drives . 6'10- 30% usage- 250 pounds player shoots only 21% of all shots inside 3 feet.

His offense is just him taking contested mid range shots OR foul baiting OR overdribbling.


Our offense will look like a** as long as Paolo has 5 ISO possessions on 34th percentile along with Franz and his 3 iso plays on 18th percentile.

This play style will make every supporting player, including solid PG look terrible because they simply don't allow others to get involved in offense. Like you wrote on other page, last 5 min of a game it's 1 v 5 for Banchero were others are as involved in game as traffic lights are in GTA.

[zaymon]

Wonder what we could get for Paolo.

Some people wrote i am Jeff Weltman. If thats true i promise i will trade Paolo Banchero for Devin Booker.
I must admit i was wrong. It was mistake to draft Banchero ahead of Holmgren. Holmgren is a warrior and Banchero is a lost kid in mans world. If Weltman (me) has balls he should do it.

[Knightro]

I really didn't agree with your take, Knightro that offense will fix itself because "Banchero's growth will solve it", especially when all that was based on 1 playoff series and 5 regular season games.

Ok, but to be fair, Paolo regressing to one the worst high usage player in the league couldn’t have been predicted really. Injuries or not.

You don’t and frankly can’t expect a year 3 player to be significantly worse than they were in year 2 even if their style isn’t efficient in the first place.

Like if over these last 19 games, in which the Magic are 6-13, if Paolo was simply matching last year’s below average efficiency numbers instead of being the least efficient high usage player in the league, the Magic would have *at least* five more wins than they have now and would be sitting at 33-25 and firmly in the mix for the 4 seed.

And the level of panic and concern around these parts would be *significantly* lower than it is now.

[AdamTheGreek]

The Paolo overreactions make this board unbearable. His third quarter was the reason we should’ve closed them out.
Franz made mistakes, too.
Both our stars are playing back to form, it’s looked a lot better these past two games.
Mosley took the blame for the timeout mishap (he had multiple times to call it and didn’t get it done).
The last 2 minutes report will be interesting.

This all comes down on Jeff. We have no choice but to lean heavily on Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s not always going to look amazing, especially with them playing back to form.
Until we fix our roster in the offseason, Mosley has to coach his way out of this. He failed tonight. Everyone has to learn and re-focus for Sunday.

[Knightro]

The Paolo overreactions make this board unbearable. His third quarter was the reason we should’ve closed them out.
Franz made mistakes, too.
Both our stars are playing back to form, it’s looked a lot better these past two games.
Mosley took the blame for the timeout mishap (he had multiple times to call it and didn’t get it done).
The last 2 minutes report will be interesting.

This all comes down on Jeff. We have no choice but to lean heavily on Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s not always going to look amazing, especially with them playing back to form.
Until we fix our roster in the offseason, Mosley has to coach his way out of this. He failed tonight. Everyone has to learn and re-focus for Sunday.

“Don’t criticize our young guy because he had one good stretch in the game surrounded by two god awful ones” - that’s a tough pill to swallow at this point because it’s not like this is an isolated incident.

Whatever you want to call it, whether he’s still hurting or he’s overly rusty from injuries or he’s not in good enough shape because of injuries or whatever the explanation is, Paolo has just absolutely killed them for 6 weeks straight and that is an undeniable fact.

[Knightro]

It would be one thing if we were holding Paolo to a high standard and were really locked in on him making a developmental leap and he was simply playing like last year. That would be a bit (although not totally) unfair from us as fans.

This just isn’t that.

Paolo is currently in the midst of a significant regression that has been ongoing for weeks and weeks and doesn’t really show much signs of letting up. He’s been, since returning from injury, hurting the team significantly more than helping it.

[basketballRob]

The Paolo overreactions make this board unbearable. His third quarter was the reason we should’ve closed them out.
Franz made mistakes, too.
Both our stars are playing back to form, it’s looked a lot better these past two games.
Mosley took the blame for the timeout mishap (he had multiple times to call it and didn’t get it done).
The last 2 minutes report will be interesting.

This all comes down on Jeff. We have no choice but to lean heavily on Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s not always going to look amazing, especially with them playing back to form.
Until we fix our roster in the offseason, Mosley has to coach his way out of this. He failed tonight. Everyone has to learn and re-focus for Sunday.

“Don’t criticize our young guy because he had one good stretch in the game surrounded by two god awful ones” - that’s a tough pill to swallow at this point because it’s not like this is an isolated incident.

Whatever you want to call it, whether he’s still hurting or he’s overly rusty from injuries or he’s not in good enough shape because of injuries or whatever the explanation is, Paolo has just absolutely killed them for 6 weeks straight and that is an undeniable fact.

It's hard to overcome a starting frontline that is so inefficient. Paolo 464 efg and Wendell 487.

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[ORLMagicGirl15]

Wonder what we could get for Paolo.

Some people wrote i am Jeff Weltman. If thats true i promise i will trade Paolo Banchero for Devin Booker.
I must admit i was wrong. It was mistake to draft Banchero ahead of Holmgren. Holmgren is a warrior and Banchero is a lost kid in mans world. If Weltman (me) has balls he should do it.

Do what?
We held on to many of our players for 5+ years waiting for something and yet we want to trade our #1 pick for looking extremely rough after coming back from injury almost 2 months ago? There is so many things this team need to do first to help him along before thinking it’s time to trade him.

[AdamTheGreek]

It would be one thing if we were holding Paolo to a high standard and were really locked in on him making a developmental leap and he was simply playing like last year. That would be a bit (although not totally) unfair from us as fans.

This just isn’t that.

Paolo is currently in the midst of a significant regression that has been ongoing for weeks and weeks and doesn’t really show much signs of letting up. He’s been, since returning from injury, hurting the team significantly more than helping it.

They’re not **** fully back in form yet. How many **** times do I have to point out this logical reason?
They’re close, but everyone keeps ignoring the impacts oblique tears and recoveries have.

There’s no regression.

Paolo is attacking more now than he was before the break.

[AdamTheGreek]

I’ve waited twenty years to have a legitimate wing/forward MVP candidate and we have two.

I’ll be damned if I let this forum degrade to poor quality like Facebook or Reddit long ago did. You’re all **** better fans than that.

Paolo and Franz are getting closer and closer to their normal form with every day that passes. They play great together. They play great separately, that’s why Mosley is finally stacking them more.
I don’t want to hear any regression or inefficiency bull. That’s expected with the injury recoveries.

These guys are having to cover so many holes we have:
1. Historically **** 3-point shooting.
2. No Mo who was our best bench scorer and glue guy.
3. We got rid of two of our best assist guys and playmakers in Fultz and Ingles and never replaced them.
4. The front office and coaching staff have leaned so far on having Paolo and Franz carry games as points t forwards that there’s no much more for them to learn. They need an actual point guard just to **** breath a little bit.
5. Our point guard situation is so poor, that yeah, Suggs is a huge loss. When in reality, he should be the SG next to an actual point guard.
6. We don’t have vets. Gary and Isaac are just there. KCP and Cory have been disappointments. Joe and Markelle were leaders who we never truly replaced.
7. Tonight’s loss is on missed free throws, but mostly mistakes from Mosley who needs to learn from this.
8. All of our problems are exaggerated because of Whitman. Jeff **** up not making one or two deadline trades. Now he put immense pressure on himself to fix all of this in the summer.

Critiquing Paolo and Franz is fine. You should.

But most of the **** I read are not critiques, it’s irrational anger or takes that are not factoring in the oblique tear recoveries.
I don’t want to **** see people say anything about trading one of our two stars. Our stars are not the problem. They’re 23 and 22 and already better than Hedo and Rashard ever were.

[byeganyo]

The Paolo overreactions make this board unbearable. His third quarter was the reason we should’ve closed them out.
Franz made mistakes, too.
Both our stars are playing back to form, it’s looked a lot better these past two games.
Mosley took the blame for the timeout mishap (he had multiple times to call it and didn’t get it done).
The last 2 minutes report will be interesting.

This all comes down on Jeff. We have no choice but to lean heavily on Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s not always going to look amazing, especially with them playing back to form.
Until we fix our roster in the offseason, Mosley has to coach his way out of this. He failed tonight. Everyone has to learn and re-focus for Sunday.

How long should Paolo play till he get back to form? it has been 50 days since he came back. 20 games, thats a quarter of the season.

[AdamTheGreek]

The Paolo overreactions make this board unbearable. His third quarter was the reason we should’ve closed them out.
Franz made mistakes, too.
Both our stars are playing back to form, it’s looked a lot better these past two games.
Mosley took the blame for the timeout mishap (he had multiple times to call it and didn’t get it done).
The last 2 minutes report will be interesting.

This all comes down on Jeff. We have no choice but to lean heavily on Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s not always going to look amazing, especially with them playing back to form.
Until we fix our roster in the offseason, Mosley has to coach his way out of this. He failed tonight. Everyone has to learn and re-focus for Sunday.

How long should Paolo play till he get back to form? it has been 50 days since he came back. 20 games, thats a quarter of the season.

He’s already been way better this week on both ends of the floor.
He told David Steele after the Hawks game that it’s the first time he’s sort of feeling normal again.

But you and the rest of the fans repeating this narrow-minded mindset need to accept that Franz and Paolo might not fully be themselves again until they get an offseason under their belt.
Now I don’t think it’s that drastic. It’ll continue getting better and more normal every day.

Oblique tears are a bitch of an injury to recover from if you’re a top tier professional athlete.

[I Rasharted]

I’ve waited twenty years to have a legitimate wing/forward MVP candidate and we have two.

I’ll be damned if I let this forum degrade to poor quality like Facebook or Reddit long ago did. You’re all **** better fans than that.

Paolo and Franz are getting closer and closer to their normal form with every day that passes. They play great together. They play great separately, that’s why Mosley is finally stacking them more.
I don’t want to hear any regression or inefficiency bull. That’s expected with the injury recoveries.

These guys are having to cover so many holes we have:
1. Historically **** 3-point shooting.
2. No Mo who was our best bench scorer and glue guy.
3. We got rid of two of our best assist guys and playmakers in Fultz and Ingles and never replaced them.
4. The front office and coaching staff have leaned so far on having Paolo and Franz carry games as points t forwards that there’s no much more for them to learn. They need an actual point guard just to **** breath a little bit.
5. Our point guard situation is so poor, that yeah, Suggs is a huge loss. When in reality, he should be the SG next to an actual point guard.
6. We don’t have vets. Gary and Isaac are just there. KCP and Cory have been disappointments. Joe and Markelle were leaders who we never truly replaced.
7. Tonight’s loss is on missed free throws, but mostly mistakes from Mosley who needs to learn from this.
8. All of our problems are exaggerated because of Whitman. Jeff **** up not making one or two deadline trades. Now he put immense pressure on himself to fix all of this in the summer.

Critiquing Paolo and Franz is fine. You should.

But most of the **** I read are not critiques, it’s irrational anger or takes that are not factoring in the oblique tear recoveries.
I don’t want to **** see people say anything about trading one of our two stars. Our stars are not the problem. They’re 23 and 22 and already better than Hedo and Rashard ever were.

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