2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm

[Optimus_Steel]

The Paolo overreactions make this board unbearable. His third quarter was the reason we should’ve closed them out.
Franz made mistakes, too.
Both our stars are playing back to form, it’s looked a lot better these past two games.
Mosley took the blame for the timeout mishap (he had multiple times to call it and didn’t get it done).
The last 2 minutes report will be interesting.

This all comes down on Jeff. We have no choice but to lean heavily on Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s not always going to look amazing, especially with them playing back to form.
Until we fix our roster in the offseason, Mosley has to coach his way out of this. He failed tonight. Everyone has to learn and re-focus for Sunday.

How long should Paolo play till he get back to form? it has been 50 days since he came back. 20 games, thats a quarter of the season.

It probably wont be till next season when he is truly back physically. He is not moving as spry as before the injury. To be honest not surprising he tore a muscle in his core, the base.

[Skybox]

Don’t blame Paolo for playing selfish & inefficient ball…that’s how we’re “developing “ him and Franz.

Help the guy, Coach & GM

[Optimus_Steel]

Its ok to be frustrated with Paolo and Franz for their poor play late 6 mins but let’s objective here. These guys are studs and will be for a long time top tier players. The roster around them is major problem. We have no PG. We have poor ball handlers. We have no guards that can penetrate and get the defense reacting. We have no reliable scoring from our guards. We have no reliable scoring off the bench. We are as a team having a historically bad shooting season from 3. We have zero spacing. Its too much for these two young studs to overcome.

[Skybox]

Don’t blame Paolo for playing selfish & inefficient ball…that’s how we’re “developing “ him and Franz.

Help the guy, Coach & GM

I'd add that I don't think they'll put up with this crap indefinitely...it's their careers, their "brands", their reputations, their earning power at stake here too...Paolo, as we have all posted repeatedly, is aware enough to ask for playmaking help - in only his second season (his first All-Star campaign). He's an Alpha personality and recognizes his importance - he's just not going to carry this team into mediocrity, night after night, and get criticized for not doing it more efficiently and intelligently forever. Like it or not, players and agents are much more empowered than in the past and they will speak their mind, strategically, to get what they want when it becomes, inarguably, the wrong path for their personal success...in this case, GOOD - force the FO to pitch in. This roster, this offensive team performance, and the precarious level of success ORL reached last year based on defense & iso is an embarrassment and a waste of that most precious NBA commodity - young, loyal, inspired stars (we've got two but we're wasting them).

I'm not saying the FO should be scared of players, but why wouldn't you want what they inevitably want? - a winning formula

Especially, when the same critics are pleased that our second year guys are making great progress and can almost put their own shoes on by themselves "already".

KFC, to me, was the wrong choice of players to pursue and overspend on...but I don't blame him beyond missing a lot of shots. But, given the state of EVERY FREAKING PLAYER on this professional basketball team shooting at career lows - I'm choosing to believe there's something intrinsically wrong with this team and that KCP (and EVERYONE else) just forgot how to shoot after a decade of excellence on better, more competitive teams.

[pepe1991]

I really didn't agree with your take, Knightro that offense will fix itself because "Banchero's growth will solve it", especially when all that was based on 1 playoff series and 5 regular season games.

Ok, but to be fair, Paolo regressing to one the worst high usage player in the league couldn’t have been predicted really. Injuries or not.

You don’t and frankly can’t expect a year 3 player to be significantly worse than they were in year 2 even if their style isn’t efficient in the first place.

Like if over these last 19 games, in which the Magic are 6-13, if Paolo was simply matching last year’s below average efficiency numbers instead of being the least efficient high usage player in the league, the Magic would have *at least* five more wins than they have now and would be sitting at 33-25 and firmly in the mix for the 4 seed.

And the level of panic and concern around these parts would be *significantly* lower than it is now.

Ok, but to be fair, Paolo regressing to one the worst high usage player in the league couldn’t have been predicted really. Injuries or not.

But he was last year as well.

2023-24, minimum 25 min a game, minimum 25% usage rate,miniumum 40 games palyed = 41 players. I didn't take off rookies.

This was list of players worst than Paolo by TS% ( including Banchero)




This year with similar run through ( 20 games, minimum 25 mpg, minimum 25 usage) he is 3rd worst.

Thing is, even if his TS% went from 53% to 55% , he would still be in mix with RJ Barret, Jalen Green, high usage chucker who does not help his team win in any meaningful way, rather padds own stats.

Net rating doesn't help his case either, in same category, among 41 men, he is 7th worst (-6,0) , next to players who play on tanking team like Brandon Miller ( -6,8), worst than Scottie Barnes (-5,4).
Last year was bit better, but still there was no indications of him helping team win ( 0,0 net rating).

Pepe don't say it , pepe dont' say it

Spoiler:

I'm not saying trade Paolo, but Average PG, Suggs, Franz, whoever- Chet
That team would be one of best defensive teams nba has , injury prone as hell, i will tell it to myself to feel better

[zaymon]

Its ok to be frustrated with Paolo and Franz for their poor play late 6 mins but let’s objective here. These guys are studs and will be for a long time top tier players. The roster around them is major problem. We have no PG. We have poor ball handlers. We have no guards that can penetrate and get the defense reacting. We have no reliable scoring from our guards. We have no reliable scoring off the bench. We are as a team having a historically bad shooting season from 3. We have zero spacing. Its too much for these two young studs to overcome.

Thing is we wont have competent guard with what Franz, Paolo and Jalen will earn.
People who write Banchero plays like this becouse of injury are completely wrong. He never played even average basketball consistently. Paolo is not a stud unfortunately. He is the main reason we suck right now. He is the main reason our spot up shooters are out of rhytm.
His agent seems like emotionally unstable person.
His 2,5 years suggest we should trade him as soon as possible until he has high value. I am not happy writing this. This is wildly disappointing. We assumed we always hit with number 1 pick and now we will have to deal with unwarranted hype.

[pepe1991]

To be clear, if i'm Weltman before any panic trades or anything, i would turn every stone to find at worst average starting level PG and go from there.
Next move would probably be looking for rim defending C who can shoot 3s to open up some driving lines.

Brook Lopez one year contract? Sign & trade for Isaac?

But yea, you need to test what you have in Paolo and Franz to go from there. This "point forward" nonsense was joke from start.

[Bergmaniac]

Such a frustrating loss. The Grizzlies were right there for the taking, we played very solid D, their stars were awful for most of the game, Franz did a great job on Ja, Bane had a nightmare with some of the worst turnovers I've seen and never really got in rhythm offensively, Jaren Jackson Jr. was missing wide open 3s all game and was in foul trouble, etc, yet we threw it away with our awful offense, especially down the stretch. Franz and Paolo taking turns going ISO on every possession will never be a good offense. Cole was doing very well in this game yet he barely touched the ball down the stretch and our other players on the court might as well not have been there on offense.

And sorry, but Paolo should get criticised when he plays like this and I am sure he will be the first to admit it. He is supposed to be the franchise guy. If he is not 100%, then he shouldn't take a million shots every game. He is 5th in the league in usage rate among players who play significant minutes.

[VFX]

We are now at the point in the season where you are coming to one of two conclusions…

1. Paolo isn’t actually efficient enough to lead a team anywhere. His game doesn’t lend itself to winning basketball. The good news is that Franz Wagner still exists and he’s good enough to lead a team.

2. The system is so bad that there is no way Paolo or Franz could ever actually look efficient. Without real play calling, or a point guard to set these guys up, everyone suffers - especially Paolo.

I don’t really care what the FO wanted to do with this experiment that I told everyone here would fail. It comes out in the wash with a bad record and miserable players.

The reality is that Paolo Banchero shouldn’t be initiating offense. Period. He sucks at it. Obviously. He needs to learn how to catch a basketball and score inside if he isn’t able to be effective from outside. And no, you cannot blame one injury in the beginning of this season for all data on him since college. If you actually believe in Paolo, then you should be praying this inept FO will clock in for once outside of drafting a top pick.

Weltman has his work cut out for him because he painted himself into a corner unnecessarily (again). He either needs to completely overhaul the roster AND coaching staff to accommodate Paolo/Franz pairing, or you can expect more of the same.

In all likelihood he will blame injuries and change absolutely nothing because that has been his track record here for nearly a decade.

[three3d]

I’ve waited twenty years to have a legitimate wing/forward MVP candidate and we have two.

I’ll be damned if I let this forum degrade to poor quality like Facebook or Reddit long ago did. You’re all **** better fans than that.

Paolo and Franz are getting closer and closer to their normal form with every day that passes. They play great together. They play great separately, that’s why Mosley is finally stacking them more.
I don’t want to hear any regression or inefficiency bull. That’s expected with the injury recoveries.

These guys are having to cover so many holes we have:
1. Historically **** 3-point shooting.
2. No Mo who was our best bench scorer and glue guy.
3. We got rid of two of our best assist guys and playmakers in Fultz and Ingles and never replaced them.
4. The front office and coaching staff have leaned so far on having Paolo and Franz carry games as points t forwards that there’s no much more for them to learn. They need an actual point guard just to **** breath a little bit.
5. Our point guard situation is so poor, that yeah, Suggs is a huge loss. When in reality, he should be the SG next to an actual point guard.
6. We don’t have vets. Gary and Isaac are just there. KCP and Cory have been disappointments. Joe and Markelle were leaders who we never truly replaced.
7. Tonight’s loss is on missed free throws, but mostly mistakes from Mosley who needs to learn from this.
8. All of our problems are exaggerated because of Whitman. Jeff **** up not making one or two deadline trades. Now he put immense pressure on himself to fix all of this in the summer.

Critiquing Paolo and Franz is fine. You should.

But most of the **** I read are not critiques, it’s irrational anger or takes that are not factoring in the oblique tear recoveries.
I don’t want to **** see people say anything about trading one of our two stars. Our stars are not the problem. They’re 23 and 22 and already better than Hedo and Rashard ever were.

lol stop don’t do that to yourself. We don’t have two wing/forward MVP candidates, Franz would need the team to himself without Paolo to have that be a discussion and the way things are looking that might have to be a strong consideration. Stop using Paolo’s injury as an excuse, if you want to make excuses for him please tell me what last season’s excuse was. Paolo’s usage rate and % are hurting the team, there’s A LOT wrong right now and I’d bet the locker room isn’t a very happy place to be. This team if it isn’t already soon will be divided and that happy family mojo will be ripped apart.

[eyriq]

The Paolo overreactions make this board unbearable. His third quarter was the reason we should’ve closed them out.
Franz made mistakes, too.
Both our stars are playing back to form, it’s looked a lot better these past two games.
Mosley took the blame for the timeout mishap (he had multiple times to call it and didn’t get it done).
The last 2 minutes report will be interesting.

This all comes down on Jeff. We have no choice but to lean heavily on Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s not always going to look amazing, especially with them playing back to form.
Until we fix our roster in the offseason, Mosley has to coach his way out of this. He failed tonight. Everyone has to learn and re-focus for Sunday.

I agree, these Paolo takes will age like milk

[eyriq]

I’ve waited twenty years to have a legitimate wing/forward MVP candidate and we have two.

I’ll be damned if I let this forum degrade to poor quality like Facebook or Reddit long ago did. You’re all **** better fans than that.

Paolo and Franz are getting closer and closer to their normal form with every day that passes. They play great together. They play great separately, that’s why Mosley is finally stacking them more.
I don’t want to hear any regression or inefficiency bull. That’s expected with the injury recoveries.

These guys are having to cover so many holes we have:
1. Historically **** 3-point shooting.
2. No Mo who was our best bench scorer and glue guy.
3. We got rid of two of our best assist guys and playmakers in Fultz and Ingles and never replaced them.
4. The front office and coaching staff have leaned so far on having Paolo and Franz carry games as points t forwards that there’s no much more for them to learn. They need an actual point guard just to **** breath a little bit.
5. Our point guard situation is so poor, that yeah, Suggs is a huge loss. When in reality, he should be the SG next to an actual point guard.
6. We don’t have vets. Gary and Isaac are just there. KCP and Cory have been disappointments. Joe and Markelle were leaders who we never truly replaced.
7. Tonight’s loss is on missed free throws, but mostly mistakes from Mosley who needs to learn from this.
8. All of our problems are exaggerated because of Whitman. Jeff **** up not making one or two deadline trades. Now he put immense pressure on himself to fix all of this in the summer.

Critiquing Paolo and Franz is fine. You should.

But most of the **** I read are not critiques, it’s irrational anger or takes that are not factoring in the oblique tear recoveries.
I don’t want to **** see people say anything about trading one of our two stars. Our stars are not the problem. They’re 23 and 22 and already better than Hedo and Rashard ever were.

Exactly right!

[Knightro]

Some wild mental gymnastics being performed over the last page or two.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Some of y’all don’t remember the last 12 seasons before Paolo and it shows.

[Skybox]

I agree with much of the support for and criticisms of the recent play of Paolo and Franz and I wouldn't, for a second, suggest trading either one...but I do have one large exception.

"They play great together"...do they? I don't really see any high-level interaction between them (PnR would be the most obvious). I'm not saying break them up - I'm saying teach them to work off each other better. Two 6'10, insanely skilled, smart, versatile offensive players SHOULD have more elevated chemistry between them...not just "My turn- go stand in the corner" or just drive and kick for spot ups. With all of their vaunted skills - the glaring need for a "true" PG shouldn't be so obvious...they get assists, but there still doesn't appear to be really nice ball movement...again, just drive and kick or, on occasion, drive and drop for Goga or WCJ. All good, but why not "develop" their chemistry beyond this constant iso s**t? seems a lot more viable than "developing" guys that have shown nothing of substance.

[Bergmaniac]

Neither Franz nor Paolo are remotely realistic MVP candidates in a league where Wemby is younger than them, Luka is still 25 and SGA is 26. Then there is Ant, Tatum is still only 26, Jokic may well dominate until he is in his late 30s with his playstyle, etc, etc. Let's not delude ourselves.

And yes, the roster around Franz and Paolo has serious issues, but if you are supposed to be a star and a future superstar, you still have to do better than Paolo is doing lately.

[89Magicfan]

Some of y’all don’t remember the last 12 seasons before Paolo and it shows.

They can’t even remember last year or year before with all the things he did.

They’re not seeing the forest amongst the trees with this whole situation and it shows.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

I agree with much of the support for and criticisms of the recent play of Paolo and Franz and I wouldn't, for a second, suggest trading either one...but I do have one large exception.

"They play great together"...do they? I don't really see any high-level interaction between them (PnR would be the most obvious). I'm not saying break them up - I'm saying teach them to work off each other better. Two 6'10, insanely skilled, smart, versatile offensive players SHOULD have more elevated chemistry between them...not just "My turn- go stand in the corner" or just drive and kick for spot ups. With all of their vaunted skills - the glaring need for a "true" PG shouldn't be so obvious...they get assists, but there still doesn't appear to be really nice ball movement...again, just drive and kick or, on occasion, drive and drop for Goga or WCJ. All good, but why not "develop" their chemistry beyond this constant iso s**t? seems a lot more viable than "developing" guys that have shown nothing of substance.

What you’re describing is coaching strategy that needs to change.

[Skybox]

I agree with much of the support for and criticisms of the recent play of Paolo and Franz and I wouldn't, for a second, suggest trading either one...but I do have one large exception.

"They play great together"...do they? I don't really see any high-level interaction between them (PnR would be the most obvious). I'm not saying break them up - I'm saying teach them to work off each other better. Two 6'10, insanely skilled, smart, versatile offensive players SHOULD have more elevated chemistry between them...not just "My turn- go stand in the corner" or just drive and kick for spot ups. With all of their vaunted skills - the glaring need for a "true" PG shouldn't be so obvious...they get assists, but there still doesn't appear to be really nice ball movement...again, just drive and kick or, on occasion, drive and drop for Goga or WCJ. All good, but why not "develop" their chemistry beyond this constant iso s**t? seems a lot more viable than "developing" guys that have shown nothing of substance.

What you’re describing is coaching strategy that needs to change.

Exactly...I love Mose but he's just rolling them out and saying "go play" offensively. My hope is he's "developing" too. There's also the possibility that Mose sees the limitations of the roster and is doing his best to work with it....Honestly, I don't know either, but I don't see the "special chemistry" between our two playmaking stars that seems logical.

[eyriq]

The defense was very good