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2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm

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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#521 » by three3d » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:29 pm

89Magicfan wrote:
three3d wrote:
ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:Some of y’all don’t remember the last 12 seasons before Paolo and it shows.



You realize the last 12 seasons have been more like this season than last season right lol? I mean come on, last season was the anomaly if you care to be honest with yourself and everyone else.



That’s a bad argument to make against someone who’s only been in the league for 3 seasons.

Year one a rook, year two he improves, year 3 suffers first big injury and argument is year 2 was anomaly? Nah. You’re missing context big time my boy.



To be clear I’m speaking about the team as a whole and accomplishments as a team not individually. If the argument is Franz and Paolo have changed everything for us that’s also not necessarily true. The only thing that has changed in the last 12 seasons is the ticket prices. Paolo and Franz are fun to watch and exciting to watch, they put people in the seats. What else has changed last all seasons?
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#522 » by ORLMagicGirl15 » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:32 pm

three3d wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:
three3d wrote:

You realize the last 12 seasons have been more like this season than last season right lol? I mean come on, last season was the anomaly if you care to be honest with yourself and everyone else.



That’s a bad argument to make against someone who’s only been in the league for 3 seasons.

Year one a rook, year two he improves, year 3 suffers first big injury and argument is year 2 was anomaly? Nah. You’re missing context big time my boy.



To be clear I’m speaking about the team as a whole and accomplishments as a team not individually. If the argument is Franz and Paolo have changed everything for us that’s also not necessarily true. The only thing that has changed in the last 12 seasons is the ticket prices. Paolo and Franz are fun to watch and exciting to watch, they put people in the seats. What else has changed last all seasons?

Winning percentage.

And even though this means nothing, we won 3 more playoff games last year, than the last 10 seasons.

Things are changing, we just need a FO that is willing to get players here to help.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#523 » by VFX » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:38 pm

I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#524 » by 89Magicfan » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:38 pm

three3d wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:
three3d wrote:

You realize the last 12 seasons have been more like this season than last season right lol? I mean come on, last season was the anomaly if you care to be honest with yourself and everyone else.



That’s a bad argument to make against someone who’s only been in the league for 3 seasons.

Year one a rook, year two he improves, year 3 suffers first big injury and argument is year 2 was anomaly? Nah. You’re missing context big time my boy.



To be clear I’m speaking about the team as a whole and accomplishments as a team not individually. If the argument is Franz and Paolo have changed everything for us that’s also not necessarily true. The only thing that has changed in the last 12 seasons is the ticket prices. Paolo and Franz are fun to watch and exciting to watch, they put people in the seats. What else has changed last all seasons?


If you need me to point out the difference, then you haven’t paid attention and will continue to not pay attention.

I think you’re pointing fingers at the wrong target.

Martins 2030 quote. Weltman not calling teams during the deadline being reported by numerous reputable sources. Magic entertainment complex being approved with hopes of getting all star bid around 2028 which ironically is close to 2030.

I just don’t think they’re trying to go all in right now. I think that trickles down to our on the court decisions and games and player performances.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#525 » by 89Magicfan » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:43 pm

VFX wrote:I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.



Think some of us are stepping back and looking at it as maybe this is by design to some extent instead of “omg Paolo all of a sudden sucks”.

Not to say they’re trying to tank but they didn’t go all in this deadline says a lot imo.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#526 » by ORLMagicGirl15 » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:46 pm

89Magicfan wrote:
VFX wrote:I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.



Think some of us are stepping back and looking at it as maybe this is by design to some extent instead of “omg Paolo all of a sudden sucks”.

Not to say they’re trying to tank but they didn’t go all in this deadline says a lot imo.

Nah, don’t give the FO that much credit. They did nothing at the deadline when they knew we needed help with shooting. They didn’t even trade Harris and Caleb when they both could be expiring this off season.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#527 » by three3d » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:51 pm

Making the Playoffs shouldn’t be considered a success, you think Boston celebrates making playoffs? Winning the Championship is success, anything short of that just is putting money in the owners pockets so that is success to them. Playoff tickets don’t cost the same as regular season premium tickets, premium pricing. We’re so used to losing around here. Playoffs is our version of a championship. It looks like.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#528 » by ORLMagicGirl15 » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:57 pm

three3d wrote:Making the Playoffs shouldn’t be considered a success, you think Boston celebrates making playoffs? Winning the Championship is success, anything short of that just is putting money in the owners pockets so that is success to them. Playoff tickets don’t cost the same as regular season premium tickets, premium pricing. We’re so used to losing around here. Playoffs is our version of a championship. It looks like.

You asked what’s changed from the other seasons, I gave you something. That means we’re going in the right direction. Now we need a FO that will be aggressive in making moves towards the championship. These guys need playoff experience to even win the championship so making it is something to celebrate.

**Making the playoffs is a step, winning games is a step. Now the FO has to work to continue to get us towards that goal of a championship. The process is long but will be longer if they continue to do nothing.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#529 » by 89Magicfan » Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:57 pm

ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:
VFX wrote:I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.



Think some of us are stepping back and looking at it as maybe this is by design to some extent instead of “omg Paolo all of a sudden sucks”.

Not to say they’re trying to tank but they didn’t go all in this deadline says a lot imo.

Nah, don’t give the FO that much credit. They did nothing at the deadline when they knew we needed help with shooting. They didn’t even trade Harris and Caleb when they both could be expiring this off season.



Yeah and I think they might’ve if they were really trying to go all in. It’s obvious they aren’t. Think they tried to get something for nothing and didn’t so welp let’s just keep riding this until timeline says we should.

I’m not giving them anything. I’m just connecting some dots here to see a picture outside of “oh they are incapable” or “Paolo sucks”.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#530 » by eyriq » Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:04 pm

VFX wrote:I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.
Proven right about what? The offense sucking again? Reasonable expectations were that we'd be top 20 on offense. Injuries derailed any offensive progress. KCP, TDS, and AB are top three in total minutes played for crying out loud.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#531 » by three3d » Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:27 pm

1.) True Shooting Percentage is calculated using the formula: TS% = Points / (2 * (Field Goals Attempted + 0.44 * Free Throws Attempted)).

2.) A higher TS% indicates better scoring efficiency, helping to assess players who can score effectively without solely relying on volume.

3.) In modern basketball analysis, TS% is often used alongside other advanced metrics to provide a clearer picture of a player's impact on the game.

4.) The average TS% in the NBA tends to hover around 55%, with elite players often exceeding this benchmark significantly.

5.) Coaches and analysts utilize TS% to make strategic decisions, such as identifying players who are over or underperforming relative to their scoring opportunities


Looking at Paolo’s stats simply doesn’t give you the whole picture. Ultimately you’ve got to understand a little about the advanced breakdowns and TS% is important. Last season Paolo had a TS% of 54.6%, under league average. This season he’s down to 50.9%, take injuries out of the equation, even if he was playing like he was last year. It’s still not good.

Franz on the other hand is at 56.9% this season, yet he has the same injury as Paolo. Last season Franz was at 57.5% so Franz is producing at above to near elite levels. NBA considers elite TS% at 60%

Deni Avdija is an eye opener, he’s at 59% this season with a usage rate of 22.5 compared to Paolo’s usage rate of 33.7. Last season Avdija’s TS% was 59.7% with a usage rate of 20.2

That type of data suggests Avdija and Franz would be a much better more effective and efficient pairing. Avdija has a Ridiculously low contract that wouldn’t hurt the teams salary cap also which is important.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#532 » by bigdogdylan5 » Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:49 pm

eyriq wrote:Proven right about what? The offense sucking again? Reasonable expectations were that we'd be top 20 on offense. Injuries derailed any offensive progress. KCP, TDS, and AB are top three in total minutes played for crying out loud.

I think we can have it both ways injuries certainly disrupted this rhythm but let’s be honest the problems with the offense that were there last year are still there and arguably worse. The offense is the most clunky piece of garbage I have ever seen. Even if we were healthy I dont believe we would be top 20 offensively. There is absolutely no space and Paolo just looks extremely frustrated. That doesn’t give him the right to mail it in on defense and jack up bad threes though. This team needs a complete retooling. Wendell Isaac Harris and Cole need to go. I love Goga but I am seriously so concerned with Paolo and Franz shooting that we need to have a stretch 5 who can shoot to rotate with him. Hell same with Anthony Black I think he will be a good player but he is unplayable off Paolo and Franz.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#533 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:53 pm

eyriq wrote:
VFX wrote:I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.
Proven right about what? The offense sucking again? Reasonable expectations were that we'd be top 20 on offense. Injuries derailed any offensive progress. KCP, TDS, and AB are top three in total minutes played for crying out loud.


KCP was always going to be top in minutes. That was our big signing rofl.

They essentially replaced Fultz, Harris and Ingles 20+ minutes each with AB KCP and TDS.

They did the BARE minimum and brought the band back during the 1 time we’d have cap space to improve the roster. **** morons and they have quadrupled down on this pathetic roster.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#534 » by VFX » Sat Feb 22, 2025 6:00 pm

eyriq wrote:
VFX wrote:I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.
Proven right about what? The offense sucking again? Reasonable expectations were that we'd be top 20 on offense. Injuries derailed any offensive progress. KCP, TDS, and AB are top three in total minutes played for crying out loud.


Brother you think Suggs can be replaced with AB.

There isn’t really a conversation worth having.

No offense.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#535 » by eyriq » Sat Feb 22, 2025 6:12 pm

VFX wrote:
eyriq wrote:
VFX wrote:I’m done arguing about this.

I was proven right after game 4 this season, and most of last season, concerning how players were utilized in this system offensively.

The results weren’t sustainable and that was already proven last season with everyone healthy.

Some posters want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like there aren’t overarching issues needing to be addressed. Thats fine.

But just know some of you are parroting exactly what Weltman has done for 6-7 seasons when things end up backfiring in his face. Blame injuries, blame continuity, blame youth. Blame everything except the obvious. If I want to have delusional one sided conversations with homers I’ll just go read the Reddit.
Proven right about what? The offense sucking again? Reasonable expectations were that we'd be top 20 on offense. Injuries derailed any offensive progress. KCP, TDS, and AB are top three in total minutes played for crying out loud.


Brother you think Suggs can be replaced with AB.

There isn’t really a conversation worth having.

No offense.
No offense taken. The Suggs idea is rooted in the assessment that Suggs is injury prone and isn't the right kind of offensive player to be our 3rd highest paid player and 3rd option. He should be paid 10-12% of the cap and is likely overpaid. AB isn't injury prone, is a better playmaker, has better size, and is better at getting to the line, is younger, and is likely going to get paid a lot less to do what Suggs does.

Use Suggs salary slot for a quality 3rd option that isn't injury prone.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#536 » by eyriq » Sat Feb 22, 2025 6:53 pm

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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#537 » by Bensational » Sat Feb 22, 2025 9:39 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:I think we can have it both ways injuries certainly disrupted this rhythm but let’s be honest the problems with the offense that were there last year are still there and arguably worse. The offense is the most clunky piece of garbage I have ever seen. Even if we were healthy I dont believe we would be top 20 offensively. There is absolutely no space and Paolo just looks extremely frustrated. That doesn’t give him the right to mail it in on defense and jack up bad threes though. This team needs a complete retooling. Wendell Isaac Harris and Cole need to go. I love Goga but I am seriously so concerned with Paolo and Franz shooting that we need to have a stretch 5 who can shoot to rotate with him. Hell same with Anthony Black I think he will be a good player but he is unplayable off Paolo and Franz.


A lot of that is because our offense takes so long to set up Paolo and Franz and once it’s set there’s no room for off ball action because any cuts into the lane risk drawing another defender closer to Paolo/Franz. Defenders can safely hedge between their man on the perimeter (who’s shooting %’s aren’t a threat in general) and clog the paint to make Paolo and Franz drives harder, and because there’s no movement off ball they just have to keep their arms up to take away most passing lanes because they know where those kick-out passes are going.

Cole was doing some great facilitation last night and hitting open guys early which caught Memphis out of position. But even when he penetrates he freestyles and the off ball guys just don’t have any anticipation of where the right lanes will be to cut and dive through.

Even when our guys do successfully move the ball the passes are generally not clean and into the hands of shooters, so they aren’t hitting guys in rhythm. I’d love to see the numbers on how many times Fultz hit someone in the corner for an open 3 last season compared to anyone this season. We’ve just lost that aspect entirely.

There’s also basics like guys having to make their open 3’s when they get them regardless of bad passing (KCP/Isaac/WCJ). Guys have to be more aggressive getting into the paint (AB). And Paolo and Franz need to be better running an offense even if they’d prefer to be offensive hubs. You can’t have such astronomically high USG and not be prepared to get your teammates involved. Star players make those around them better. Franz routinely shows he can set others up, but lately when the pressure is on he locks in like Paolo and tries to go it alone.

My biggest gripe right now is that since we’re not playing strong winning basketball we may as well prioritise youth development and live through the lumps and slumps of AB and Jett more. I don’t really care to watch a Cole resurgence because other than building his trade value it’s not of great long term value to the team and it’s not giving us any real winning edge right now.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#538 » by ogmagicfan » Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:01 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Paolo is most likely not gonna be 100% the rest of the season

He is looking more mobile post ASB compared to pre ASB, but he's still shying from shots at the rim in the half court compared to how he was attacking the rim the first 5 games of the season where his shot distribution looked alot more efficient. Seems he doesnt trust his body fully yet.

Wasnt surprised he wasnt efficient off of a b2b, although he was pretty bad last night

That doesnt mean there werent questions before about his efficiency concerns, but his game should have never been predicated at attacking from the perimeter to drive into the paint although he's improved at it compared to his rookie season. Franz is more adept at that.

Give it a full offseason of working on his game, being more decisive with the ball in his hands, finishing better at the rim and better shot selection and he'll be fine.

Bigger question mark, is will our FO actually put the right pieces around Paolo & Franz for their strengths to shine? Because if not, none of this matters. It makes everything harder to evaluate.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#539 » by byeganyo » Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:04 pm

eyriq wrote:
byeganyo wrote:
eyriq wrote:The defense was very good


have you ever admitted being wrong about something?
What do I need to admit I was wrong about?


you know, the basics, that this is well constructed team with historically good young core (although you are willing to cut 1/3 of it)
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 58: Memphis Grizzlies (36-19) at Orlando Magic (28-29) - 7pm 

Post#540 » by KillMonger » Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:32 pm

Heard from my cousin that Franz kinda questioned the coaching a little bit in his post game..... Any truth to that? Because that would be surprising to me coming from Franz

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