It’s WILD that LeBron hasn’t won an MVP in 12 years

[DirtyDez]

It's only wild if your a diehard Lebron fan. It's a regular season award and Lebron stopped giving a **** about the regular season since his Miami days. The only year you could argue was 2021 when he had them 1st in the conference when AD went down and then he got hurt and ended that possibility.

Saying he didn’t care about the regular season since Miami is inaccurate. In 2018 Lebron played 82 games in the regular season (over 3,000 minutes) and was the best player in the league. He played 10 more games than Harden who won MVP. I know it’s a regular season award but he was inhuman during the playoffs too.

[lessthanjake]

I don’t think he had a particularly good case for MVP in any of those years.

His best regular season in those years was probably 2016 IMO, but obviously he didn’t deserve MVP over Steph that year. The year he was probably closest in terms of the gap between him and the winner was either 2017 or 2020. In 2017, he was arguably better than Westbrook IMO, but he wasn’t the only one that was true of, and LeBron was also rightly below Harden and Kawhi in MVP voting. Both Harden and Kawhi had notably better team success in the regular season without the same level of top-end talent alongside them, and put up better overall box numbers (higher BPM, win shares per 48, etc.). Meanwhile, in 2020, the Lakers were great and LeBron had a really good year, but the Bucks and Giannis were just cleanly better in the RS.

For further reference, here’s where LeBron played in EPM each of these years:

LeBron’s actual EPM league ranking by year

2014: 4th
2015: 7th
2016: 5th
2017: 7th
2018: 9th
2019: 13th
2020: 5th
2021: 6th
2022: 9th
2023: 15th
2024: 10th

That’s EPM as a rate stat, but if we instead look at EPM Expected Wins, to capture the effect of playing time, we get the following:

LeBron’s EPM Expected Wins league ranking by year

2014: 3rd
2015: 5th
2016: 6th
2017: 5th
2018: 3rd
2019: 25th
2020: 5th
2021: 20th
2022: 13th
2023: 24th
2024: 9th

He just really never was the best regular season player in those years. And in case one thinks that EPM is just a stat skewed against LeBron, I’ll note that LeBron was 1st in one or both of the above two stats (i.e. actual EPM and EPM Expected Wins) every year from 2009 to 2013.

[og15]

It’s wild that AD didn’t win Finals MVP despite dragging a non playoff team to a ring after his first season. And wild that he drug a non playoff team to the playoffs in again in 2023 and didn’t get an MVP.

Lakers have been a sub 40-win team without AD in the lineup ever since LeBron arrived.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that since AD arrived, the Lakers record with Lebron and no AD is better than with AD and no LeBron.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think Lebron has won a playoff game without AD since coming out West.

When he went down vs the Suns, his fans and the media claimed that AD wasn’t needed to win that series. They got backdoor swept, embarrassed each game, then yall said he was injured. lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUjTmljayB3cmlnaHQgYW50aG9ueSBkYXZpcyBzdW5zIDIwMjE%3D

AD only totally missed one playoff game as a Laker, so 0-1. Now he played only 5 minutes in game 6 vs Phoenix, so you can add that, and only 19 minutes in game 4, but the sample size is one series, so I'm not particularly sure what the relevance is

[The Explorer]

He hasn't won an MVP in his 30s, nor has he earned an all defensive selection in his 30s. He has, however, racked up the honor of becoming the all time leader in turnovers and missed field goals in his 30s. Longevity stats ftw.

[Camby_Bamby]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that since AD arrived, the Lakers record with Lebron and no AD is better than with AD and no LeBron.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think Lebron has won a playoff game without AD since coming out West.

When he went down vs the Suns, his fans and the media claimed that AD wasn’t needed to win that series. They got backdoor swept, embarrassed each game, then yall said he was injured. lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUjTmljayB3cmlnaHQgYW50aG9ueSBkYXZpcyBzdW5zIDIwMjE%3D

AD only totally missed one playoff game as a Laker, so 0-1. Now he played only 5 minutes in game 6 vs Phoenix, so you can add that, and only 19 minutes in game 4, but the sample size is one series, so I'm not particularly sure what the relevance is

Pretty much missed the last games of that series and the lakers got cooked despite yall saying that it was easy work because AD wasn’t needed. Once it started to look bad, yall said Lebron was injured. Remember this like yesterday. Lakers proceed to not crack 40 games next season because AD was injured most of the year. Healthy AD = playoffs. No AD = sub 40 win team before and after AD showed up. Pretty large sample size.

If that’s not valuable, not sure what is.

[bkkrh]

He placed many times 2nd or 3rd in those seasons and I don't see any season where he is ahead of at least the winner.

I guess from a personal stat perspective the most solid case can be made for 17-18 but Harden had won 15 more games with the Rockets and even if their teams had an equal winning record, I'd probably still give it to Harden.

[JayMKE]

He didn’t deserve to win any of those years, nothing wild about it

[nikster]

It’s wild that AD didn’t win Finals MVP despite dragging a non playoff team to a ring after his first season. And wild that he drug a non playoff team to the playoffs in again in 2023 and didn’t get an MVP.

Lakers have been a sub 40-win team without AD in the lineup ever since LeBron arrived.

Not that you actuwlly care about the stats but since AD has been a Laker they play a sub 40 win pace in games lebron is out

[TheNG]

I mean duh it's not easy to win 5 MVPs or more. you must be really one of the GOATs to earn that.
Only Russell, Kareem and MJ have done yet.
It's for everyone...

[og15]

I could be wrong, but I don’t think Lebron has won a playoff game without AD since coming out West.

When he went down vs the Suns, his fans and the media claimed that AD wasn’t needed to win that series. They got backdoor swept, embarrassed each game, then yall said he was injured. lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUjTmljayB3cmlnaHQgYW50aG9ueSBkYXZpcyBzdW5zIDIwMjE%3D

AD only totally missed one playoff game as a Laker, so 0-1. Now he played only 5 minutes in game 6 vs Phoenix, so you can add that, and only 19 minutes in game 4, but the sample size is one series, so I'm not particularly sure what the relevance is

Pretty much missed the last games of that series and the lakers got cooked despite yall saying that it was easy work because AD wasn’t needed. Once it started to look bad, yall said Lebron was injured. Remember this like yesterday. Lakers proceed to not crack 40 games next season because AD was injured most of the year. Healthy AD = playoffs. No AD = sub 40 win team before and after AD showed up. Pretty large sample size.

If that’s not valuable, not sure what is.

That's a better sample. Of course the main issue is that you're talking about a very top heavy team, they won't be great at winning with either out.

Lebron also only played 56 games that season, can't neglect that part.

They were 17-23 with AD and they were 25-31 with Lebron.

[zimpy27]

He was the best in the league for half of those 12 years but his focus was on playoffs and not regular season.

MVP isn't a best in the league award.
MVP is for the highest PER on a top 6 team unless that player has just won twice in a row or another player has an absurd statline on a playoff team (they don't need to be top 6) or a another player that has a slightly lower PER doesn't yet have an MVP.

[Camby_Bamby]

AD only totally missed one playoff game as a Laker, so 0-1. Now he played only 5 minutes in game 6 vs Phoenix, so you can add that, and only 19 minutes in game 4, but the sample size is one series, so I'm not particularly sure what the relevance is

Pretty much missed the last games of that series and the lakers got cooked despite yall saying that it was easy work because AD wasn’t needed. Once it started to look bad, yall said Lebron was injured. Remember this like yesterday. Lakers proceed to not crack 40 games next season because AD was injured most of the year. Healthy AD = playoffs. No AD = sub 40 win team before and after AD showed up. Pretty large sample size.

If that’s not valuable, not sure what is.

That's a better sample. Of course the main issue is that you're talking about a very top heavy team, they won't be great at winning with either out.

Lebron also only played 56 games that season, can't neglect that part.

They were 17-23 with AD and they were 25-31 with Lebron.

Just stating the obvious - Lebron wasn't as valuable as AD since his stint with the Lakers. Activated playoff mode and got monkey stomped in 2019. AD showed up, they win. AD leads them to the playoffs in 2021, goes up 2-0, Lebron is showboating, AD goes down, media/fans say AD isn't needed, Lakers get monkey stomped, yall say he's inured. Lol.

Just a lame fanbase with an excuse always cocked and ready while minimizing the importance of every single teammate.

[MrPainfulTruth]

The MVP idea is that one player is head and shoulders above everyone else ON HIS TEAM. Since LeBron decided to go the superteam route he did not deserve any MVP's any more because he teamed up with elite talent over and over. If anything, AD should have won FMVP, not LeBron. Just because ESPN keeps hammering the propaganda in your brain doesnt mean you need to create a stupid thread making baseless claims.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Pretty much missed the last games of that series and the lakers got cooked despite yall saying that it was easy work because AD wasn’t needed. Once it started to look bad, yall said Lebron was injured. Remember this like yesterday. Lakers proceed to not crack 40 games next season because AD was injured most of the year. Healthy AD = playoffs. No AD = sub 40 win team before and after AD showed up. Pretty large sample size.

If that’s not valuable, not sure what is.

That's a better sample. Of course the main issue is that you're talking about a very top heavy team, they won't be great at winning with either out.

Lebron also only played 56 games that season, can't neglect that part.

They were 17-23 with AD and they were 25-31 with Lebron.

Just stating the obvious - Lebron wasn't as valuable as AD since his stint with the Lakers. Activated playoff mode and got monkey stomped in 2019. AD showed up, they win. AD leads them to the playoffs in 2021, goes up 2-0, Lebron is showboating, AD goes down, media/fans say AD isn't needed, Lakers get monkey stomped, yall say he's inured. Lol.

Just a lame fanbase with an excuse always cocked and ready while minimizing the importance of every single teammate.

That is what ScrantonBulls is here for

[og15]

Pretty much missed the last games of that series and the lakers got cooked despite yall saying that it was easy work because AD wasn’t needed. Once it started to look bad, yall said Lebron was injured. Remember this like yesterday. Lakers proceed to not crack 40 games next season because AD was injured most of the year. Healthy AD = playoffs. No AD = sub 40 win team before and after AD showed up. Pretty large sample size.

If that’s not valuable, not sure what is.

That's a better sample. Of course the main issue is that you're talking about a very top heavy team, they won't be great at winning with either out.

Lebron also only played 56 games that season, can't neglect that part.

They were 17-23 with AD and they were 25-31 with Lebron.

Just stating the obvious - Lebron wasn't as valuable as AD since his stint with the Lakers. Activated playoff mode and got monkey stomped in 2019. AD showed up, they win. AD leads them to the playoffs in 2021, goes up 2-0, Lebron is showboating, AD goes down, media/fans say AD isn't needed, Lakers get monkey stomped, yall say he's inured. Lol.

Just a lame fanbase with an excuse always cocked and ready while minimizing the importance of every single teammate.

I like AD, and I'm not a Lakers fan, nor do I care about propping up Lebron. I just don't think we need to put out meh arguments just to counter annoying ones.

The Pelicans went 25-31 with AD in 18-19, the Lakers went 28-27 with Lebron in 18-19. Both played 56 and 55 games respectively. They both needed a better co-star (and better health) to help them win more.

22-23 again had a lot of missed games. They won 43 overall. 30-25 with Lebron, 31-25 with AD, obviously there was overlap in games played, I don't know or care much about the stats with/without.

Both guys needed each other in that specific situation to win more games. AD isn't a playmaker, Lebron can't anchor a defense and doesn't have the motor or stamina in his mid to late 30's anymore to have top level defensive impact (unless he becomes Draymond on offense).

[Big J]

It’s actually not that wild. LeBron fills the stat sheet, but it’s been empty stats for a loooong time.

[Loneshot]

Jokic is the only one that truly was the MVP each of those years. All of the other years Lebron pretty much got robbed. It happened to Kobe a lot. The league uses the MVP more as a step tool rather than a true reflection of who is the most important to their team or the league. There has not been a more important player in sports than Lebron James.

[Patches Perry]

After many playoff runs, MVPs and championships, you begin to run the race differently. Obviously a guy sprinting against a guy jogging will not tell us who is faster.

This has been the case forever. Karl Malone rightfully won MVPs over Jordan some years, but nobody ever thought that when the two were sprinting, so to speak, that Malone was faster/better than Jordan. It doesn't mean Malone's MVPs were undeserved, it just requires context.

[MavsDirk41]

Jokic is the only one that truly was the MVP each of those years. All of the other years Lebron pretty much got robbed. It happened to Kobe a lot. The league uses the MVP more as a step tool rather than a true reflection of who is the most important to their team or the league. There has not been a more important player in sports than Lebron James.

Lol what?? I can name several….

[Loneshot]

Jokic is the only one that truly was the MVP each of those years. All of the other years Lebron pretty much got robbed. It happened to Kobe a lot. The league uses the MVP more as a step tool rather than a true reflection of who is the most important to their team or the league. There has not been a more important player in sports than Lebron James.

Lol what?? I can name several….

It won't change that he's rarely ever not been the most important player to the league, in the league, almost since his rookie season. Lebron could flex this fact but he already doesn't get enough credit for how humble he is.