Cooper Flagg

[azcatz11]

Cooper is saving this from being the worst draft ever.

I se a lot of bad mouthing of this draft but I attribute that to less people knowing enough about these players. I think Harper and Bailey both have real chances to be All NBA type players very early in their careers.

It’s not, don’t listen to that clown. It isn’t even the worst draft of the past 2 years - 2024 was and will be much worse. So either this guy has no historical basis or he’s just making things up.

I’d put it around equal to 2022 and 2020 as well, but probably below 2021 and 2023.

Every draft is either the worst or the best

[Hook_Em]

Cooper is saving this from being the worst draft ever.

I se a lot of bad mouthing of this draft but I attribute that to less people knowing enough about these players. I think Harper and Bailey both have real chances to be All NBA type players very early in their careers.

The conventional wisdom about this draft coming into this season was that it was very strong at the top even outside of Flagg. Who is underperforming expectations so far?

Sam Vecenie said he’s got about 12 first rd grades which is the lowest ever since he’s been covering the draft. Casuals just see the top-5 and think that qualifies a draft as good.

[LakerLegend]

What’s his nba position? The 3 or the 4?

[cocktailswith_2short]

I se a lot of bad mouthing of this draft but I attribute that to less people knowing enough about these players. I think Harper and Bailey both have real chances to be All NBA type players very early in their careers.

The conventional wisdom about this draft coming into this season was that it was very strong at the top even outside of Flagg. Who is underperforming expectations so far?

Sam Vecenie said he’s got about 12 first rd grades which is the lowest ever since he’s been covering the draft. Casuals just see the top-5 and think that qualifies a draft as good.

that's like every draft though . There's a handful of players that pass the eye test and the rest is a complete crapshoot.

[MalonesElbows]

Cooper Flagg looks like a taller longer Hayward.... ethnicity aside, they play and move similarly.

Flagg plays a way more physical style than Hayward did at the college level. I don't hate the comparison though.

[Ayt]

He reminds me of Franz.

I haven't watched Franz much.

Is he a bully? Because Cooper is. Bully in a good way, obviously. Cooper is quite strong and dislodges opponents.

I thought Franz was finesse? I don't know.

They share a lot of similarities, like being able to play in the perimeter at near 7-feet tall.

6-9 is near 7 feet tall?

[FrodoBaggins]

What’s his nba position? The 3 or the 4?

He's so well-rounded that he plays both forward positions well. He probably leans PF more to the tune of a 55-45/60-40 split IMO. Better out of the triple threat than a live dribble right now. Excels from the post. Off-ball defense better than his POA defense right now. Aerial game (shot-blocking, above-the-rim play-finishing) is really good.

The distinction between SF and PF isn't what it used to be anymore. They just call them wings now LOL. He'll play the FWD spot that best fits the personnel he plays with. But if we're being technical, his combined size, athleticism, and skill package slightly leans PF over SF IMO.

[zimpy27]

Is Garnett not a good comparison?

[FrodoBaggins]

Is Garnett not a good comparison?

KG was a legit 6'11.25" barefoot; Cooper looks to be more like 6'7.5" to 6'8" barefoot - Tatum/Ingram/Paul George/Carlos Boozer size.

The Garnett comp has more to do with a general impact archetype: an elite two-way front-court player with greater emphasis on defensive, passing, and basketball IQ/awareness/decision-making. Pippen would fall into this bucket and perhaps he's a better choice than KG because he's much closer in size to Flagg.

It's a funny comparison too because, although KG is much taller, Cooper is the bigger bull inside attacking the rim. More rim pressure, handles physicality better, and will probably draw more fouls. Things you'd typically associate with larger players. Garnett was like a guard in the body of a PF/C, for better and for worse.

Some posters have mentioned Jimmy Butler as a loose comparison and I like that. There are obviously some size, athletic, and skill differences but how they approach the game isn't all that different. They both are high IQ two-way FWDs who are simple-yet-effective playmakers and bully-ball slashers who have a knack for turning dribble drives into post-ups/pivots. Rebound own misses/crash the o-boards, intelligent cutters/screeners/movers off-ball. Willing to defer/fit in or take over/scale up when needed.

The biggest difference I see is that Flagg is functionally like 5-7 inches bigger when you account for his superior height, wingspan, and standing reach. And this is why Coop's blocking shots and finishing aerial plays in ways Butler doesn't.

Butler NBA Draft measurements: 6'6" barefoot, 6'7.75" in shoes, 6'7.5" wingspan, 8'5.5" standing reach (1.75" shoes)
Flagg safe/generous estimated measurements: 6'7.5" to 6'8" barefoot, 7'0" to 7'3" wingspan, 8'10" to 9'1" standing reach (1.25" shoes)

A more athletic, stronger Tatum isn't a bad comparison either.

[tsherkin]

Is Garnett not a good comparison?

KG was a legit 6'11.25" barefoot; Cooper looks to be more like 6'7.5" to 6'8" barefoot - Tatum/Ingram/Paul George/Carlos Boozer size.

The Garnett comp has more to do with a general impact archetype: an elite two-way front-court player with greater emphasis on defensive, passing, and basketball IQ/awareness/decision-making. Pippen would fall into this bucket and perhaps he's a better choice than KG because he's much closer in size to Flagg.

...

A more athletic, stronger Tatum isn't a bad comparison either.

Garnett isn't gonna be a hot comparison because Flagg doesn't project as the same kind of defender or playmaker. The size difference is large and Garnett was an ATG defender/DPOY who helmed one of the best defenses in league history. Flagg doesn't look like that kind of guy. TBF, Garnett wasn't looking exactly like that when he hit the league as a skinny SF either, but in terms of looking at this in retrospect... And again, KG is one of the best 20-foot shooters in league history, so there's another element we don't really see from Flagg, who seems to thrive much closer to the basket, tossing his shoulders around and playing a more power-oriented game. He's considerably more comfortable with physical contact than Garnett was at any point in his career.

Tatum isn't an amazing comparison either because he's a 27+ ppg scorer who leans hard on volume 3pt shooting, which is something we don't see from Flagg, who seems to be more of a power player and less of a perimeter shooter. Similar ish in height, sure, but not so much in primary operating zones or skillset. Obviously, Tatum has some pretty decent post game as well, but the shot selection/shooting proficiency difference is a pretty large deviation. Tatum hit the league as a 43% 3pt shooter on like 3 3PA/g, and has scaled up since. Flagg isn't close to that type of shooter.

[CobraCommander]

What’s his nba position? The 3 or the 4?

3 or 4 -? Depends on the scheme

[LockoutSeason]

Nbadraft.net has Scottie Pippen as his comparison

[pr0wler]

What’s his nba position? The 3 or the 4?

He's so well-rounded that he plays both forward positions well. He probably leans PF more to the tune of a 55-45/60-40 split IMO. Better out of the triple threat than a live dribble right now. Excels from the post. Off-ball defense better than his POA defense right now. Aerial game (shot-blocking, above-the-rim play-finishing) is really good.

The distinction between SF and PF isn't what it used to be anymore. They just call them wings now LOL. He'll play the FWD spot that best fits the personnel he plays with. But if we're being technical, his combined size, athleticism, and skill package slightly leans PF over SF IMO.

Yeah Slamball was ahead of its time. They had 3 names for positions, handler, gunner and stopper. Which is basically what most NBA teams use now lol

[Duke4life831]

Is Garnett not a good comparison?

KG was a legit 6'11.25" barefoot; Cooper looks to be more like 6'7.5" to 6'8" barefoot - Tatum/Ingram/Paul George/Carlos Boozer size.

The Garnett comp has more to do with a general impact archetype: an elite two-way front-court player with greater emphasis on defensive, passing, and basketball IQ/awareness/decision-making. Pippen would fall into this bucket and perhaps he's a better choice than KG because he's much closer in size to Flagg.

...

A more athletic, stronger Tatum isn't a bad comparison either.

Garnett isn't gonna be a hot comparison because Flagg doesn't project as the same kind of defender or playmaker. The size difference is large and Garnett was an ATG defender/DPOY who helmed one of the best defenses in league history. Flagg doesn't look like that kind of guy. TBF, Garnett wasn't looking exactly like that when he hit the league as a skinny SF either, but in terms of looking at this in retrospect... And again, KG is one of the best 20-foot shooters in league history, so there's another element we don't really see from Flagg, who seems to thrive much closer to the basket, tossing his shoulders around and playing a more power-oriented game. He's considerably more comfortable with physical contact than Garnett was at any point in his career.

Tatum isn't an amazing comparison either because he's a 27+ ppg scorer who leans hard on volume 3pt shooting, which is something we don't see from Flagg, who seems to be more of a power player and less of a perimeter shooter. Similar ish in height, sure, but not so much in primary operating zones or skillset. Obviously, Tatum has some pretty decent post game as well, but the shot selection/shooting proficiency difference is a pretty large deviation. Tatum hit the league as a 43% 3pt shooter on like 3 3PA/g, and has scaled up since. Flagg isn't close to that type of shooter.

Flagg is the better scorer and shooter than Tatum at the same stage.

Tatum made 40 3s in 29 games on 34% shooting.
Flagg has made 37 3s in 27 games, on 36% shooting.

I don't see how Tatum had the better shot selection/shooting proficiency.

Tatum averaged 16.8 ppg on 56 TS%.
Flagg is averaging 19.7 ppg on 59 TS%.

Flagg's game is far more advanced on the ball vs Tatum. Whether that is driving and getting to the rim, driving and facilitating, or pull up shot. Flagg is the more advanced and efficient scorer.

[7seventynine9]

The conventional wisdom about this draft coming into this season was that it was very strong at the top even outside of Flagg. Who is underperforming expectations so far?

Sam Vecenie said he’s got about 12 first rd grades which is the lowest ever since he’s been covering the draft. Casuals just see the top-5 and think that qualifies a draft as good.

that's like every draft though . There's a handful of players that pass the eye test and the rest is a complete crapshoot.

And a top heavy draft with no depth is better than a deep draft with no top talent.

[tsherkin]

KG was a legit 6'11.25" barefoot; Cooper looks to be more like 6'7.5" to 6'8" barefoot - Tatum/Ingram/Paul George/Carlos Boozer size.

The Garnett comp has more to do with a general impact archetype: an elite two-way front-court player with greater emphasis on defensive, passing, and basketball IQ/awareness/decision-making. Pippen would fall into this bucket and perhaps he's a better choice than KG because he's much closer in size to Flagg.

...

A more athletic, stronger Tatum isn't a bad comparison either.

Garnett isn't gonna be a hot comparison because Flagg doesn't project as the same kind of defender or playmaker. The size difference is large and Garnett was an ATG defender/DPOY who helmed one of the best defenses in league history. Flagg doesn't look like that kind of guy. TBF, Garnett wasn't looking exactly like that when he hit the league as a skinny SF either, but in terms of looking at this in retrospect... And again, KG is one of the best 20-foot shooters in league history, so there's another element we don't really see from Flagg, who seems to thrive much closer to the basket, tossing his shoulders around and playing a more power-oriented game. He's considerably more comfortable with physical contact than Garnett was at any point in his career.

Tatum isn't an amazing comparison either because he's a 27+ ppg scorer who leans hard on volume 3pt shooting, which is something we don't see from Flagg, who seems to be more of a power player and less of a perimeter shooter. Similar ish in height, sure, but not so much in primary operating zones or skillset. Obviously, Tatum has some pretty decent post game as well, but the shot selection/shooting proficiency difference is a pretty large deviation. Tatum hit the league as a 43% 3pt shooter on like 3 3PA/g, and has scaled up since. Flagg isn't close to that type of shooter.

Flagg is the better scorer and shooter than Tatum at the same stage.

Tatum made 40 3s in 29 games on 34% shooting.
Flagg has made 37 3s in 27 games, on 36% shooting.

I don't see how Tatum had the better shot selection/shooting proficiency.

Tatum averaged 16.8 ppg on 56 TS%.
Flagg is averaging 19.7 ppg on 59 TS%.

Flagg's game is far more advanced on the ball vs Tatum. Whether that is driving and getting to the rim, driving and facilitating, or pull up shot. Flagg is the more advanced and efficient scorer.

If Flagg shoots 40% from 3 as an NBA rookie, Ill be very, very surprised.

[FrodoBaggins]

Another well-rounded game tonight. Really like that playmaking.

[tsherkin]

Another well-rounded game tonight. Really like that playmaking.

He does seem to move the ball well.

Aside, Carlos Boozer's beard looks like Lebron's hairline in like 2016.

[akhan786]

I hope Coop can get NPOY but Duke is too good this year and the games are over at the half.

They made Jakucionis look really small tonight.

[cocktailswith_2short]

Every team within legit range to tank for this guy should do so no questions asked .